desmog question

[burple05]

I did a de-smog over the weekend.  Got everything back together, fired right up.  Problem is the idle dropped from a smooth 900 rpm before to barely running at around 500-600rpm.  Took it for a test ride.  Pulled over couple miles down the road adjusted the idol back to 900 rpm with little black wheel on right side.  Runs like bat outa hell.  Although it did before de-smog.  It also seems that the left bank on exhaust sounds different from the right side?   Not sure why idle went so low after desmog, maybe fixed some vacuum leaks?  Or maybe created some?  Do I need to check idle adjustment screws underneath?  Never have.  Any help would be appreciated.

thanks. Ron.

[Hook#3287]

Desmogging should not have caused a need to adjust the idle set screws or idle speed.

I would think if you fixed a non known vac leak, the bike would run faster/better.

How far did you go in the desmog?  Did you pull the chrome air feed pipes?

All I can suggest is you go back and check all wires and hoses.

Maybe you pulled a spark wire by accident?

[burple05]

I did not remove the air pipes.  Bought the red-eye stealth desmog kit.  Removed Reed valves, other valve on top, plugged big hose on air box that went to removed valve, plugged all the small vac tubes on bottom of each carb with quality plugs from red-eye.  I thought I did it correctly according to directions.  The left bank just sounds funny compared to right side.  Kinda gurgle y if that makes sense.  A couple of the air feed pipes will now move since they are not connected to the Reed valves any longer.  How would I know I have a vacuum leak for sure.  I sprayed starting fluid Around everything I thought might leak vacuum.   No change in idle.  It doesn't run bad just doesn't seem right.   Help!

[da prez]

Check the intake runner clamps. I remove the air tubes and install freeze plugs. The only vacuum line should be for the fuel valve. Go back over your work one step at a time. Do not assume.  Post your location , someone is near.

                 da prez


                   

[burple05]

So you guys pretty sure I have created a vacuum leak somewhere?  Is that what caused the idle to drop after work performed and why the left bank has the gurglely, pffft pffft pfft sound?  I re-checked it last night visually with with flash light it Looks like all intake boots are all the way on, all the vac plugs secure.  Wouldn't it run rough, not idle very smooth, hard start if I had a major vacuum leak?  Man I got a planned trip with my buds to ride to Arizona if a few weeks. One of these days I'll learn to leave well enough alone.  I'm in Van Buren, Arkansas by the way.  Any VAlk experts close?  Been riding this beast for a couple of years, 20,000 miles and absolutely love it.  Any help is much appreciated.

Ron.

[Fazer]

When re-installing the air box, those intake tubes have to go over the intakes and it is easy to fold one over a little in the rear where they are difficult to see.  A small dentist mirror and a flashlight work well.  

Sounds like a vacuum leak to me.

[Paladin528]

just to be clear.  there is only ONE idle adjustment screw (the black knob on the right)  The pilot screws are mixture screws and should not be touched if they were already set right. 

[Hacked Valk]

That airbox is a heck of a thing.  Took it off once to install the MCCruise control. I live across the river and would be happy to help if I could but have never done a de-smog although tempted.  Certainly no expert on anything Valk related.  I am curious to read about the resolution.

[burple05]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll go back over everything I did and re-check my work.  Bummed.

[burple05]

Went at it again today.   Pulled the tank again.  Got a mirror checked all the boots, vac plugs.  Found I didn't have boots very tight thought I might have found the problem.  Crossed fingers nope same thing as.   All three left bank cylinders puffing.  Cut a piece of paper like my dad showed me manyyears ago.  Sure enough all three sucking paper inside of each pipe.   Right bank perfect.   Bummer.  Valves?   Pull all plugs not bad running little rich.   Perform compression test all cylinders quickly built up to 150 psi.   Don't know the spec but that seems right.    ?????? What would cause all left bank to puff like that.   Remember original post.   Only thing done was a desmog.    I need help!   

[Hook#3287]

Sure enough all three sucking paper inside of each pipe.

This confuses me, what pipes are sucking the paper inside?

[burple05]

Exhaust pipes.   All three left side 2,4,6 cylinders.   

[Hook#3287]

Ok, new test to me.

So that's supposed to show blown head gasket or bad valve seal, neither of which is a common issue with these motors.

I've done over 6 desmogs and never had this issue.

I'm not familiar with RedEye's stuff, I make my own plugs.

Are you sure the caps/plugs for the chrome air pipes are good?

The only thing that those three cylinders share is the gas line and the exhaust chamber if OEM.

edit (outside of the valve train.)

[burple05]

Red-eye plugs are high quality.   Check out his website.   The plugs are secure on all 6 chrome air pipes.   Although where they go into the head on he other end where they have an.o ring they will just twist left or right in their holes because they are no longer hooked to the Reed valve manifolds.   But both l and r are the same.   Would a vacuum leak cause these symptoms?

[Hook#3287]

I zip tie the pipes together so they don't move around.

No question on redeye quality, I'm just not familiar with them.

Can you do a video of the "pffft" sound?

Where does it seem to be coming from?

After desmog, the only vacuum loss would be at the intake nipples and usually #6 is used for petc0ck vacuum.  You've already ruled out the air boots and their clamps.

Do you suspect all 3 cylinders are making the noise?

It might be time to contact Bob Smith at Attic Rat.  He's probably the most knowledgeable Valk carb guy in the world and your lucky, he's under a 100 miles from you.  He's also a sponsor of VRCC and his ad is up top.   There are many reports of the excellent work he does.

[burple05]

intake nipples are all capped off also.  I run a Pingle non-vacuum fuel valve.  Sound is coming out the exhaust.  As said before cylinders 2, 4, 6 all on left side.  Shows classic sign of valves not sealing.  But after the compression check that can't be it.  Especially on all 3 cylinders.

[Hook#3287]

oem exhaust?

[burple05]

cobra 6 into 6. 

[Hook#3287]

I don't know, man, you've pretty much ruled out intake issues and "pfft" coming out from the exhaust is just weird. ???

Have you checked the exhaust stud bolt nuts and gaskets?

Maybe she just needs a good thrashing

[Ricky-D]

The only thing I can think of that may have happened when you did the desmog, is you could have disturbed the bar that crosses over from the right bank carburetors to the left bank carburetors. When you remove the pair valves you work in close proximity to that bar. This would account for the symptoms you describe.

***

[Hook#3287]

The only thing I can think of that may have happened when you did the desmog, is you could have disturbed the bar that crosses over from the right bank carburetors to the left bank carburetors. When you remove the pair valves you work in close proximity to that bar. This would account for the symptoms you describe.

***

That's interesting.  Are you talking about #3 in this graphic?

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1998/gl1500c-a-valkyrie/carburetor-assy

If that's what happened, would a sync help or solve the issue?

[Ricky-D]

The only thing I can think of that may have happened when you did the desmog, is you could have disturbed the bar that crosses over from the right bank carburetors to the left bank carburetors. When you remove the pair valves you work in close proximity to that bar. This would account for the symptoms you describe.

***

That's interesting.  Are you talking about #3 in this graphic?

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1998/gl1500c-a-valkyrie/carburetor-assy

If that's what happened, would a sync help or solve the issue?

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. And all the related hook-up parts and stuff too, not necessarily just that bar. That bar controls the left side idle for all the carburetors. It seems to me you've altered the idle of the left side carburetors (in unison). Now the left side has lost it's idle setting and they are all sitting at zero. When you get the problem solved a synchronization may or may not be necessary.

***

[Hook#3287]

The only thing I can think of that may have happened when you did the desmog, is you could have disturbed the bar that crosses over from the right bank carburetors to the left bank carburetors. When you remove the pair valves you work in close proximity to that bar. This would account for the symptoms you describe.

***

That's interesting.  Are you talking about #3 in this graphic?

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1998/gl1500c-a-valkyrie/carburetor-assy

If that's what happened, would a sync help or solve the issue?

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. And all the related hook-up parts and stuff too, not necessarily just that bar. That bar controls the left side idle for all the carburetors. It seems to me you've altered the idle of the left side carburetors (in unison). Now the left side has lost it's idle setting and they are all sitting at zero. When you get the problem solved a synchronization may or may not be necessary.

***

That certainly sounds like what may have happened.  Have to wait till the OP posts back. 

How does that cause the symptoms?  Not doubting, just wondering.

[Forge]

I had a similar sound coming out of one jug on my Intruder. It was carb sync. I would check your sync.

[Ricky-D]

That certainly sounds like what may have happened.  Have to wait till the OP posts back. 
How does that cause the symptoms?  Not doubting, just wondering.

I posted:

That bar controls the left side idle for all the carburetors. It seems to me you've altered the idle of the left side carburetors (in unison). Now the left side has lost it's idle setting and they are all sitting at zero.

How does that happen?  If you are familiar with the process (spelled out in the shop manual) for synchronizing the carburetors, it is very clear.

The left side idle is controlled by the right side carburetor assembly through the connection of that "bar" and all of the attaching parts.

The idle control for the whole engine is through the single knob sitting above the carburetors on the right side between carburetor #1 and #3..

***

[Hook#3287]

I understand why the bar being damaged would change the idle set of the left side. 

My question is how does that make the symptom of air being sucked into the exhaust, as the OP stated, happen?

[Ricky-D]

I understand why the bar being damaged would change the idle set of the left side. 

My question is how does that make the symptom of air being sucked into the exhaust, as the OP stated, happen?

With the idle at zero, there is no combustion so the cylinder is an air pump and the valve timing allows for the air in the exhaust pipe to move back and forth somewhat. You could describe it as "paper being sucked" and it looks similar to that.

***

[burple05]

Ok.  I've completely re-done everything I've touched on it.  Plus located correct Freeze plugs and completed desmog entirely.  No more air pipes.  I got ahold of Attic Rat, he was pretty sure I had a leak somewhere checked everything he suggested.  Checked out the carb linkage R to L side, everything looked and functioned as it appears it should.  Seems to work smooth when twisting the throttle.  That's all I see it does.  Moves R and L carbs in unison.  Air box removed, boots and clamps all gone over thouroghly, everything tight and locked down.  Start it up.  Same crap.  I now question myself.  Did it always sound like that?  Did the de-smog just amplify it?  She starts, idles, no smoke, nothing.  Screw it took her for a ride.   What can I say.  Runs like a bat outa hell.   Ran the R's up Let off throttle, absolutely no popping on deceleration.  Really seems to run good.   I don't know man.  I give up.  Maybe I need a carb sync.  Anybody close by that could help with that?  I'm just gonna ride that bitch.  See what happens.

[JimC]

Maybe I need a carb sync.  Anybody close by that could help with that?  I'm just gonna ride that bitch.  See what happens.

You need to put your location in your signature before we can answer that one.

Jim