Oil

[pancho]

3500 miles on the oil and filter, so have the time and I change it. I notice that the oil I remove from the valk is just about as clean as the new oil I replace it with,, it always is but I really check it out this time. Now in the old days, I remember dads draining oil from the family car and giving it to the kid to replace the oil in his clunker...  Well I know that oil breaks down and just because it is clean is not all there is to it, but this oil is clean enough that I used it to replace the oil in the riding and push mowers. When is an oil done,, and is there any way you can tell??

[Pete]

The only way to truly determine if new looking Oil is depleted (no longer use-able) is to have an oil analysis performed.

Of course if it is black and dirty, it is done, or should be.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Once oil is used I consider it only good for spraying on dusty dirt roads. But, I doubt they do that anymore. 

[Beardo]

Once oil is used I consider it only good for spraying on dusty dirt roads. But, I doubt they do that anymore. 

My old man used to get us to pour it on the wood slab fences in the corrals...you know, to preserve the wood, I guess.  I think that would be frowned upon nowadays. 

Or used it for oiling chains on the farm equipment.

Wouldn’t put “clean” oil back into an engine though.

[Tfrank59]

Oil's life in a motor is mostly gaged by how dirty it is.  The oil I run in my bikes, full synthetic, has the ability to lubricate well past the recommended interval (8k?), but though its lubricity hasn't depleted by then, quite often it's become dirty and should be changed.  I change my Valk's oil and filter every 4000, and it seems to be a bit dirty by that point--sort of coffee colored.  I would think that a more high-mileage valk, say 120k+ miles, or if the environment one rides in is more dusty (like the dessert southwest), then that would require oil changes at least as if not more frequently.  Just my 1.5 cents.

[98valk]

color and look of oil means nothing. if anything if its looking dark that means its doing its job.  additives wear out, not the oil and/or unless the oil is overheated, and those temps would be causing serious damage to the engine.
as stated used oil analysis is the only way to know. I've done it and syn oil is good for 10-15k miles. when honda recommends 8k change with dino oil for their flagship pride and joy motorcycle and offer a 7 yr warranty on it, you would think the engineers and tribologists know what they are doing. they don't want warranty returns and a bad rap.
feel good emotional engineering oil changes at 3-4k miles does not trump sound engineering.

[pancho]

I'm just old school and used to 3, 4 K oil changes,,,, I may need to rethink that.   8K is the Honda recommended interval with dino oil? on what bike CA?

[Tfrank59]

color and look of oil means nothing. if anything if its looking dark that means its doing its job.  additives wear out, not the oil and/or unless the oil is overheated, and those temps would be causing serious damage to the engine.
as stated used oil analysis is the only way to know. I've done it and syn oil is good for 10-15k miles. when honda recommends 8k change with dino oil for their flagship pride and joy motorcycle and offer a 7 yr warranty on it, you would think the engineers and tribologists know what they are doing. they don't want warranty returns and a bad rap.
feel good emotional engineering oil changes at 3-4k miles does not trump sound engineering.

I have to disagree about the color of the oil meaning nothing. It's an indication of how much dirt in there and how much dirt is in the oil is an indication of how loose or tight the clearances in the engine.  A couple of my buddies are top mechanics and they've said this over and over That's one reason it's recommended that high-mileage engines have the oil changed more frequently,  they're more worn and don't have tight clearances anymore. A different example I bought a Kia brand new in 2001 and after 3 or 4 oil changes it was coffee-colored oil and only ten or fifteen thousand miles on the engine. By contrast my 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 50 or 60 K still had pristine looking oil at every oil change just the difference between Japanese and Korean engineering, although by this time the Koreans have come a long ways I'm sure

[cookiedough]

color and look of oil means nothing. if anything if its looking dark that means its doing its job.  additives wear out, not the oil and/or unless the oil is overheated, and those temps would be causing serious damage to the engine.
as stated used oil analysis is the only way to know. I've done it and syn oil is good for 10-15k miles. when honda recommends 8k change with dino oil for their flagship pride and joy motorcycle and offer a 7 yr warranty on it, you would think the engineers and tribologists know what they are doing. they don't want warranty returns and a bad rap.
feel good emotional engineering oil changes at 3-4k miles does not trump sound engineering.

Yes and no about the Korean mfgs.  I own 2 Hyundais both 2014 similar 60K miles on each.  The 3.3L

I have to disagree about the color of the oil meaning nothing. It's an indication of how much dirt in there and how much dirt is in the oil is an indication of how loose or tight the clearances in the engine.  A couple of my buddies are top mechanics and they've said this over and over That's one reason it's recommended that high-mileage engines have the oil changed more frequently,  they're more worn and don't have tight clearances anymore. A different example I bought a Kia brand new in 2001 and after 3 or 4 oil changes it was coffee-colored oil and only ten or fifteen thousand miles on the engine. By contrast my 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 50 or 60 K still had pristine looking oil at every oil change just the difference between Japanese and Korean engineering, although by this time the Koreans have come a long ways I'm sure

Yes and no about the Korean mfgs.  I own 2 Hyundais both 2014 similar 60K miles on each.  The 3.3L v6 in the santa fe is pretty clean when 5000 mile oil changes are done every 3-4 months.  My 2.4L 4 cylinder sonata GDI engine gets BLACK oil after 1 month of driving and say 1000 miles is all.   SAME oil, etc. just the engine, or so I was told by Hyundai dealer, on the sonata runs dirtier and gets dirtier oil much more quicker.  Literally, the oil is NEAR black and has always been that way since bought new in 2014 shortly after oil changes the oil is near black, looks like it needs changing ASAP.   Hyundai suggests 3500 miles for 'dirty/dusty' conditions and 7K miles for easy hwy. driving.  I mix the 2 and make it 5000 miles mostly all hwy. every 4 months or so. 

My toyota tundra 5.7L V8 taking a whopping 7.9 qts. of oil stays clean at 5000 miles only slight discoloration.  Each engine is different for sure.

My cycles using synthetic oil always stays pretty clean between oil changes once per year anywhere between 1400 and 3500 miles on each though is all though for mileage very similar to my tundra.

[98valk]

I'm just old school and used to 3, 4 K oil changes,,,, I may need to rethink that.   8K is the Honda recommended interval with dino oil? on what bike CA?

the Valkyrie GL1500, and has been for the GL1500 engine since it was first introduced in '88. The oil is at least 10x better today than it was in '88.
used oil analysis is the only way to know for your conditions and oil u use if u safely can go 10-15k miles.
many on here yrs ago were over 100k miles and were using rotella 5w40, change filter at 5k and top off and than complete change at 10k.
u can read reports here www.bobistheoilguy.com
one the best treads was an ST1100 rider testing with all brands of oil with 8-10k changes, even 15w40 supertech came back as a superior oil. last I read he was over 100k miles.
there was a valkyrie handle "red rider" changing at 2-3k miles. almost zero wear, wasted oil changes.
since I use an oversized Pure1 filter I've been pulling the filter at 5k, draining the filter re-install and top off for final change at 10k. usually it takes me 2yr to do 10k. I did UOA yrs ago at 2 yrs and report came back oil still good for continued used. this was with Amsoil 10w30/30 heavy duty diesel oil, which so far has been the best shifting oil I have used. It was originally spec'd for allison automatic transmissions. not using it right now since I have 5 gallons of rotella 5w40 to use up.
if your using diesel oil, see my post about the new CK-4 spec's oil out there. some brands must not be used in our engines otherwise cams/followers will be wiped.

[98valk]

color and look of oil means nothing. if anything if its looking dark that means its doing its job.  additives wear out, not the oil and/or unless the oil is overheated, and those temps would be causing serious damage to the engine.
as stated used oil analysis is the only way to know. I've done it and syn oil is good for 10-15k miles. when honda recommends 8k change with dino oil for their flagship pride and joy motorcycle and offer a 7 yr warranty on it, you would think the engineers and tribologists know what they are doing. they don't want warranty returns and a bad rap.
feel good emotional engineering oil changes at 3-4k miles does not trump sound engineering.

I have to disagree about the color of the oil meaning nothing. It's an indication of how much dirt in there and how much dirt is in the oil is an indication of how loose or tight the clearances in the engine.  A couple of my buddies are top mechanics and they've said this over and over That's one reason it's recommended that high-mileage engines have the oil changed more frequently,  they're more worn and don't have tight clearances anymore. A different example I bought a Kia brand new in 2001 and after 3 or 4 oil changes it was coffee-colored oil and only ten or fifteen thousand miles on the engine. By contrast my 1998 Toyota Tacoma with 50 or 60 K still had pristine looking oil at every oil change just the difference between Japanese and Korean engineering, although by this time the Koreans have come a long ways I'm sure

maybe or maybe not.  only UOA will tell u.
https://www.gmpartscenter.net/blog/oil-color-meaning
http://www.elf.com/en/advice-corner/engine-oil-faq/does-motor-oil-expire.html
Is black or dark oil bad? Does it mean that I’m in need of an oil change?

Nope. All that is indicated by the coloration of your oil when you check it is that your oil is doing its job properly. That job partially involves removing and capturing contaminants and deposits from the engine’s moving parts. Contaminants will color the oil, but certainly don’t indicate that it’s time for a change.

[pancho]

Once again I have been provided a wealth of good information. Thanks for the posts CA... It seems that for a general indication, if the oil is still amber and the viscosity has not changed it is probably still good to go, but for a true test of the longevity it must be checked with a used oil analysis.  I do think my lawnmowers are safe at this point.   So, how does a citizen go about getting a UOA and what is a ballpark figure on the cost?

[98valk]

Once again I have been provided a wealth of good information. Thanks for the posts CA... It seems that for a general indication, if the oil is still amber and the viscosity has not changed it is probably still good to go, but for a true test of the longevity it must be checked with a used oil analysis.  I do think my lawnmowers are safe at this point.   So, how does a citizen go about getting a UOA and what is a ballpark figure on the cost?

two most common.  I've used both.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/     
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/other-products/oil-analysis-services/

or most local trucking shops do it.  so might be lower cost. 

[pancho]

So how did you go about it? did you have an analysis done at say 5k and if you had a good report ride more and get another done at say 8K  then 10 .....  or what?

[98valk]

So how did you go about it? did you have an analysis done at say 5k and if you had a good report ride more and get another done at say 8K  then 10 .....  or what?

4-5k, get results, blackstone will give comments. this way u are still before honda's 8k change. they have avgs for our engines. normally boxer engines don't wear. like DDT's engine over 600k miles. subaru engines are normally good for 300+k.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,17708.0.html my one analysis posted, still had low miles.

[MarkT]

Once oil is used I consider it only good for spraying on dusty dirt roads. But, I doubt they do that anymore.  

Or pour it on a pond to kill the mosquitos.  Boy that will get the tree huggers started.  I had a neighbor who did that to another neighbor's pond w/o telling him. We have the highest instance of West Nile here in CO.  Go figure, it's rare to get bit by a mosquito round here.  Generally too dry for them but you want to prevent puddles and such.

Back in the day farmers used to use old oil in the "pig oilers".  A rotating drum-like device the pigs rub against I guess to kill bugs.

[Jess from VA]

Putting lightly used oil in your lawnmower may not be great, but it's better than running the original (dino) oil that came with it for 15 years until it blows up.

They usually don't blow up, they just wear out (mainly carburetors).

I donate all my used oil to my local gas station I go to from time to time for small things.  They put in one of those oil heaters that burns used oil and heats all three bays nicely all winter.

____________________________

On another note,  I know many of us have been using T6 Shell Rotella 5-40 for many years.  Me too.

This Bob the Oil Guy thread indicates the new formula for it (CK-4) contains enough Moly in it, it may no longer be safe in our wet clutch bikes.  I cannot read this oil analysis information and understand it very well.  Any thoughts?  This info is around a year old already.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4490450/all/Shell_Rotella_T6_5W40_CJ-4/SM_

[Valkorado]

Putting lightly used oil in your lawnmower may not be great, but it's better than running the original (dino) oil that came with it for 15 years until it blows up.

They usually don't blow up, they just wear out (mainly carburetors).

I donate all my used oil to my local gas station I go to from time to time for small things.  They put in one of those oil heaters that burns used oil and heats all three bays nicely all winter.

____________________________

On another note,  I know many of us have been using T6 Shell Rotella 5-40 for many years.  Me too.

This Bob the Oil Guy thread indicates the new formula for it (CK-4) contains enough Moly in it, it may no longer be safe in our wet clutch bikes.  I cannot read this oil analysis information and understand it very well.  Any thoughts?  This info is around a year old already.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4490450/all/Shell_Rotella_T6_5W40_CJ-4/SM_

I'll be following this.  That would a real bummer if Rotella is no longer an option.  Anyone had slippage using the new formula?

[98valk]

Putting lightly used oil in your lawnmower may not be great, but it's better than running the original (dino) oil that came with it for 15 years until it blows up.

They usually don't blow up, they just wear out (mainly carburetors).

I donate all my used oil to my local gas station I go to from time to time for small things.  They put in one of those oil heaters that burns used oil and heats all three bays nicely all winter.

____________________________

On another note,  I know many of us have been using T6 Shell Rotella 5-40 for many years.  Me too.

This Bob the Oil Guy thread indicates the new formula for it (CK-4) contains enough Moly in it, it may no longer be safe in our wet clutch bikes.  I cannot read this oil analysis information and understand it very well.  Any thoughts?  This info is around a year old already.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4490450/all/Shell_Rotella_T6_5W40_CJ-4/SM_

thanks for that Jess

mobil mc oil has had around 90ppm of moly for yrs as do mnay other mc oils.  I have the SAE testing report # 961217 and when moly get near 200ppm and at higher temps can it start making the main clutch slip, and depends on the clutch size and its material. the main scare about moly and clutch slippage was about models with power transfer automatic centrifugal clutches.   starter clutches were good up to 700ppm.  interesting report it was stated that 10w30 was used in all test as that is the oil most manufacturers use for their engine development testing.  Motul was using 500-700ppm in their mc oils, don't know if they still do.

[98valk]

still JASO rated.  see my previous post on JASO and the new CK-4 diesel oils from a few months ago.

https://rotella.shell.com/products/full-synthetic-and-blend-oil/t6-full-synthetic.html

[h13man]

Putting lightly used oil in your lawnmower may not be great, but it's better than running the original (dino) oil that came with it for 15 years until it blows up.

They usually don't blow up, they just wear out (mainly carburetors).

I donate all my used oil to my local gas station I go to from time to time for small things.  They put in one of those oil heaters that burns used oil and heats all three bays nicely all winter.

____________________________

On another note,  I know many of us have been using T6 Shell Rotella 5-40 for many years.  Me too.

This Bob the Oil Guy thread indicates the new formula for it (CK-4) contains enough Moly in it, it may no longer be safe in our wet clutch bikes.  I cannot read this oil analysis information and understand it very well.  Any thoughts?  This info is around a year old already.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4490450/all/Shell_Rotella_T6_5W40_CJ-4/SM_



 

Just went through this new T6 and had to change out to Vavoline 10w40 dino. The gear shifting got pretty noisy and irregular shifting feel. This all happened in less than 200 mi. I refuse to pay over $22  for 4 qts. of synthetic oil.

[pancho]

Thanks guys for the informed posts,,,, I feel much better prepared to move into the world of less frequent oil changes and back off from just blindly throwing oil changes round. I would like to be better informed about the condition of my motors and oil. I ordered a kit from Blackstone and will check out my old Chevy truck first, I was just thinking it was about time to change the oil,, it will be interesting to see the results.

[pancho]

DDT now has over 600K on his bike? It doesn't seem that long ago he went over 500K!!  That boy sure does ride!