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Jeff K
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« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2009, 08:37:30 AM » |
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Apparently neither can the other side  That hybrid you drive has a bigger carbon footprint than any SUV out there. The technology to make the batteries that make hybrids feasible consume large quantities of coal and diesel to mine and smelt. I'm not going to argue against evolution, I think it's pretty clear that organisms evolve, that's why there's a new flu shot every year. But I will tell you that I didn't evolve from monkeys, some people out there might have, but I know that I was created in His image. I apologize ahead of time, but it was the first thing that popped into my head. 
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MP
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1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2009, 04:01:09 PM » |
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I TOLD YOU that puffs daddy would say all our experts are no good, and only his are good!
MP
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2009, 04:27:56 PM » |
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Seems to me that regarding the Global Warming issue, it is now the "Green" industry driving the science as opposed to the science driving the industry.
There are clearly much evidence to call into question the Global Warming theory. On many levels. From whether it is happening at all, to if human industriousness is a significant cause or if it is just a natural occurence.
The response is to throttle the debate, which is hardly scientific. There seems to be a lack of objectivity from the "Green" side. And it seems to be a case of the industry driving the science. There's been a lot invested in it.
Just seems to me that a world with miles upon miles of undersea fissures which blow out magma and superheated gases would eventually warm things up a bit.
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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Airetime
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U Never See a Valk Parked @ a Psychiatrist Office
Anacortes, WA
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« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2009, 05:20:44 PM » |
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Want more??
More of the same bunk from the global warming denial cottage industry consisting of non-peer reviewed opinions from non-scientists and crackpots? No thanks. A similar dump of evolution deniers doesn't change the fact that it has been established beyond a reasonable doubt. Nor that the vast majority of climatologists are convinced that human caused global warming is real and potentially catastrophic. The thing about real science is that it is inherently skeptical. And if the sources you cite had any significant validity, they'd be taken into account. It ain't a conspiracy on the part of scientists, folks. Nor is it a conspiracy of "elites" to curtail consumption. (Hint: "Elites" benefit from mass consumption.) And as noted earlier, most of us are in no position to judge the data independently. The tiny minority of deniers may, indeed, prove to be correct. But if they are, the measures designed to shift from fossil-based fuels and reduce human beings' carbon footprints all have benefits (such as a reduction of dependence on mideast oil) that are independent of climate change. What the deniers recommend, in contrast, do nothing to accomplish such goals. Fortunately, neither the crackpots that deny evolution nor those that deny climate change can do much beyond posting internet r. I find it hysterical that you would consider people such as George Will, Claude Allegre, Paleoclimate scientist Bob Carter and Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.) Chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee crackpots. Well, I guess that it's true that you can't teach a pig to sing, all you do is frustrate the pig and hurt your ears, I guess I should have not even tried. You obviously didn't really read the credits and you don't seem to want more to read as I certainly have more, closed minds usually don't. IF you follow the money you will find that it leads to the GREEN Corporations who are making $$$ off the big Green push hyped by the media. I really miss my old friend Mr. Common Sense, we could really iuse him these days as there appears to be quite a lack of it. I wish you well, but you really need to to open up and see both sides of the issues. |
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RoadKill
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« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2009, 06:21:48 PM » |
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Even these tax mongering lefties know what is retarded about the current fix being forced upon us!  CTC regards carbon taxes as superior to carbon cap-and-trade systems for six fundamental reasons: 1. Carbon taxes will lend predictability to energy prices, whereas cap-and-trade systems will aggravate the price volatility that historically has discouraged investments in less carbon-intensive electricity generation, carbon-reducing energy efficiency and carbon-replacing renewable energy. 2. Carbon taxes can be implemented much sooner than complex cap-and-trade systems. Because of the urgency of the climate crisis, we do not have the luxury of waiting while the myriad details of a cap-and-trade system are resolved through lengthy negotiations. 3. Carbon taxes are transparent and easily understandable, making them more likely to elicit the necessary public support than an opaque and difficult to understand cap-and-trade system. 4. Carbon taxes can be implemented with far less opportunity for manipulation by special interests, while a cap-and-trade system’s complexity opens it to exploitation by special interests and perverse incentives that can undermine public confidence and undercut its effectiveness.
5. Carbon taxes address emissions of carbon from every sector, whereas some cap-and-trade systems discussed to date have only targeted the electricity industry, which accounts for less than 40% of emissions. 6. Carbon tax revenues would most likely be returned to the public through dividends or progressive tax-shifting, while the costs of cap-and-trade systems are likely to become a hidden tax as dollars flow to market participants, lawyers and consultants.http://www.carbontax.org/issues/carbon-taxes-vs-cap-and-trade/ |
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Peacemaker
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1997 Valkyrie F-6 Tour
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« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2009, 06:31:00 PM » |
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Can anyone tell me which came first..the chicken or the egg????
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There can be no free speech, no freedom of the press, no freedom to protest, no freedom to worship your god, no freedom......for anybody, anywhere, without the Second Amendment freedom to fight for it.
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2009, 07:13:45 PM » |
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Can anyone tell me which came first..the chicken or the egg????
The real question is which one was fried first. |
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Mike Luken
Cherokee, Ia.
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fstsix
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« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2009, 07:24:15 PM » |
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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2009, 05:52:39 AM » |
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I find it hysterical that you would consider people such as George Will, Claude Allegre, Paleoclimate scientist Bob Carter and Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.) Chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee crackpots.
George Will, whose claims about climate change in the WaPo were shot down by the very sources he cited? Robert Carter, the former Director of Australia's Ocean Drilling program? Claude Allegre who disputes not only climate change, but also argues that asbestos has no harmful health effects and believes that Newton was wrong about gravity? James Inhofe, who is no longer the Chair of Environment and Public Works Committee (Thank God) and who has won the "Dumbest Person in Congress" award on multiple occasions. Those folks? |
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stormrider
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« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2009, 06:23:03 AM » |
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Oh Puff, don't it irratate you that very few of us Valkers are as highly evolved as you are? Surely you are so much more evolved than I am is why you can see so far into the future. Heck, have you seen a man evolving into something other than a man? Have you looked in the mirror lately? Super intelio life form. No need to argue with you, you're so far evolved above the rest of the species you make us look human.  |
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
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fstsix
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« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2009, 06:24:41 AM » |
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What is the problem with an orphaned article?
A company with no advertising will not be known to others, and as a result, will get few if any customers.
Likewise, orphaned articles, since they have few links to them from other pages, are difficult to find, and are most likely to be found only by chance. Because of this, few people know they exist, and therefore, they get less readership and improvement from those who would be able to improve them.
In particular, if the topic is more obscure, this may make it difficult for many to locate. If not for links to a page, the only way such an article can be found is by a person who knows the topic entering it into Wikipedia or doing a web search, browsing a category in which it is contained, looking at the edit history of a contributor to the page, or having it show up as a random articlehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauri_S._Pelto
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Mickey Runie
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« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2009, 06:25:10 AM » |
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..... and who has won the "Dumbest Person in Congress" award on multiple occasions?
NANCY PELOSI!!!!!!! |
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G-Man
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« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2009, 07:01:32 AM » |
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Well, if they're right starting sooner to do something about it is better than waiting. If they're wrong, then various proposals to reduce human beings' carbon footprint will only (a) reduce US dependence on mideast oil; (b) conserve natural resources; (c) reduce pollution; (d) preserve choices for our children and grandchildren. What terrible outcomes.
As for my personal carbon footprint, one does what one can do. In return for the use of my Valk I drive a hybrid, use a bicycle for short jaunts, purchase green energy through my local utility, control the use of electricity in my home, and do a number of other things to reduce waste of natural resources. When you do the same, feel free to lecture me.
You do these things because it is your choice and freedom to do these things. I congradulate you on your conviction to your beliefs. However, (you knew this was coming) I should have the same right to make the choices I want to make and not be forced to make choices or pony up more dough on a very possible hoax. I have seen presentation from experts on both sides and have read articles on both sides of the issue as I am looking for the truth. From what I have seen and read, it is my opinion that there is no evidence one way or the other. It all makes sense if you don't seek the other opinion. When you do seek out both sides and really take in what's being presented, by whom it's being presented, financed by whom is financing it, you do start to see a trend. The trend that I have seen is that those presenting the Yes There Is A Problem side have the ability to make a buck off of it. |
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Airetime
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U Never See a Valk Parked @ a Psychiatrist Office
Anacortes, WA
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« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2009, 04:46:52 PM » |
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I find it hysterical that you would consider people such as George Will, Claude Allegre, Paleoclimate scientist Bob Carter and Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.) Chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee crackpots.
George Will, whose claims about climate change in the WaPo were shot down by the very sources he cited? Robert Carter, the former Director of Australia's Ocean Drilling program? Claude Allegre who disputes not only climate change, but also argues that asbestos has no harmful health effects and believes that Newton was wrong about gravity? James Inhofe, who is no longer the Chair of Environment and Public Works Committee (Thank God) and who has won the "Dumbest Person in Congress" award on multiple occasions. Those folks? As I said, I really miss old Common Sense. Try this one on for size as I am sure that the psuedo intellectuals out there will love it!  Not that you are one, of course ..... http://www.itssd.org/Issues/ChristopherMonktonDiscussion,Calculations_References-ApocalypseCancelled-11-5-06.pdf |
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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2009, 07:23:08 AM » |
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Well, if they're right starting sooner to do something about it is better than waiting. If they're wrong, then various proposals to reduce human beings' carbon footprint will only (a) reduce US dependence on mideast oil; (b) conserve natural resources; (c) reduce pollution; (d) preserve choices for our children and grandchildren. What terrible outcomes.
As for my personal carbon footprint, one does what one can do. In return for the use of my Valk I drive a hybrid, use a bicycle for short jaunts, purchase green energy through my local utility, control the use of electricity in my home, and do a number of other things to reduce waste of natural resources. When you do the same, feel free to lecture me.
You do these things because it is your choice and freedom to do these things. I congradulate you on your conviction to your beliefs. However, (you knew this was coming) I should have the same right to make the choices I want to make and not be forced to make choices or pony up more dough on a very possible hoax. I have seen presentation from experts on both sides and have read articles on both sides of the issue as I am looking for the truth. From what I have seen and read, it is my opinion that there is no evidence one way or the other. It all makes sense if you don't seek the other opinion. When you do seek out both sides and really take in what's being presented, by whom it's being presented, financed by whom is financing it, you do start to see a trend. The trend that I have seen is that those presenting the Yes There Is A Problem side have the ability to make a buck off of it. You're perfectly free to make your own choices. Just be prepared to bear the cost and not ask me (or my grandchildren) to pay for it. As for who is "financing" various opinions, you have those who profit from fossil fuels on one side and virtually every major scientific organization in the world on the other. Feel free to choose. |
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Serk
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« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2009, 07:34:31 AM » |
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Just be prepared to bear the cost and not ask me (or my grandchildren) to pay for it. Wow... That statement coming from you is dripping with so much irony it's almost painful... |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβΠ|
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RP#62
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« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2009, 08:15:06 AM » |
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You're perfectly free to make your own choices. Just be prepared to bear the cost and not ask me (or my grandchildren) to pay for it. As for who is "financing" various opinions, you have those who profit from fossil fuels on one side and virtually every major scientific organization in the world on the other. Feel free to choose.
You don't think "virtually every major scientific organization in the world" have nothing to profit. They're highly invested in global warming their continued funding depends on it. -RP |
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Ben
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« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2009, 08:41:19 AM » |
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puff,Storm Eagle, It's time you realized that anytime a "Scientist" uses terms likr"significant increase"
or "significant decrease"...they are just guessing. They are trying to pee on your neck and tell
you it's only rain water.
Regards
-Ben-
professional Scientist
Geology and Environmental Biology
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JerryG59
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« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2009, 09:25:54 AM » |
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In Colorado many of their ski resorts just had their earliest opening day ever. Summer of 2009 was the third coolest on record in north America. China just had what may have been the heaviest snowfall ever, collapsing 7,000 buildings. Anyone else have problems with their gardens this year ? My tomatos froze on August 15th. Where i live it use to get over 100 degrees several times each summer. It hasn't hit 100 here in at least seven years. If this is Global warming what would Global cooling be like ? I don't know but i'm bringin a warm coat. If i can still afford one. I don't need a scientist to tell me it's not getting hotter. Even if i did see it was getting warmer there's something else that could be driving it, it's called the sun. It seems to me that the number of people who believe man made Global warmaing is real is decreasing. While people that believe it's a hoax is increasing. Pretty soon the only people that believe the hoax will be Al Gore, PD and Scanner. They better hurry up with that bill before it's to late.
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Scanner
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« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2009, 09:59:49 AM » |
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In Colorado many of their ski resorts just had their earliest opening day ever. Summer of 2009 was the third coolest on record in north America. China just had what may have been the heaviest snowfall ever, collapsing 7,000 buildings. Anyone else have problems with their gardens this year ? My tomatos froze on August 15th. Where i live it use to get over 100 degrees several times each summer. It hasn't hit 100 here in at least seven years. If this is Global warming what would Global cooling be like ? I don't know but i'm bringin a warm coat. If i can still afford one. I don't need a scientist to tell me it's not getting hotter. Even if i did see it was getting warmer there's something else that could be driving it, it's called the sun. It seems to me that the number of people who believe man made Global warmaing is real is decreasing. While people that believe it's a hoax is increasing. Pretty soon the only people that believe the hoax will be Al Gore, PD and Scanner. They better hurry up with that bill before it's to late.
uh...gee...must be why it's called Global Warming instead of "Colorado Warming"... Thanks for sharing your expertise... |
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Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
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fstsix
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« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2009, 10:25:20 AM » |
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In Colorado many of their ski resorts just had their earliest opening day ever. Summer of 2009 was the third coolest on record in north America. China just had what may have been the heaviest snowfall ever, collapsing 7,000 buildings. Anyone else have problems with their gardens this year ? My tomatos froze on August 15th. Where i live it use to get over 100 degrees several times each summer. It hasn't hit 100 here in at least seven years. If this is Global warming what would Global cooling be like ? I don't know but i'm bringin a warm coat. If i can still afford one. I don't need a scientist to tell me it's not getting hotter. Even if i did see it was getting warmer there's something else that could be driving it, it's called the sun. It seems to me that the number of people who believe man made Global warmaing is real is decreasing. While people that believe it's a hoax is increasing. Pretty soon the only people that believe the hoax will be Al Gore, PD and Scanner. They better hurry up with that bill before it's to late.
Righty....you got stop picking on those (Inganeers) My wife is looking over my shoulder and my family, well sit down and feel sorry for me ok here goes, (Wife Hughes Aircraft then McDonnell Douglas)next(Dad Rockwell International) next (father in law Hughes Aircraft) next (Mother in law Hughes Aircraft) you can stop me now! Next (My son Mechanical Engineer USAF) next (father in law passed away but now we have another new member retired Hughes Aircraft) Anybody want to here some inganeer jokes ? We got em LOL!. |
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RoadKill
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« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2009, 10:32:04 AM » |
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« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2009, 11:54:10 AM » |
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« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 12:01:42 PM by Britman »
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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2009, 12:00:28 PM » |
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You're perfectly free to make your own choices. Just be prepared to bear the cost and not ask me (or my grandchildren) to pay for it. As for who is "financing" various opinions, you have those who profit from fossil fuels on one side and virtually every major scientific organization in the world on the other. Feel free to choose.
You don't think "virtually every major scientific organization in the world" have nothing to profit. They're highly invested in global warming their continued funding depends on it. -RP What utter nonsense. Any scientist willing to parrot the (energy) company line can get all the funding they want. |
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RoadKill
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« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2009, 02:20:59 PM » |
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You're perfectly free to make your own choices. Just be prepared to bear the cost and not ask me (or my grandchildren) to pay for it. As for who is "financing" various opinions, you have those who profit from fossil fuels on one side and virtually every major scientific organization in the world on the other. Feel free to choose.
You don't think "virtually every major scientific organization in the world" have nothing to profit. They're highly invested in global warming their continued funding depends on it. -RP What utter nonsense. Any scientist willing to parrot the (energy) company line can get all the funding they want. Any scientist willing to parrot the (energy) company line can get all the funding they want....DUHHHH ! ! Thats the F-ING PROBLEM ! Throw your money at it but I'll keep mine. You fund 'em Puff they aint gettin mine! |
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stormrider
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« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2009, 03:01:00 PM » |
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You're perfectly free to make your own choices. Just be prepared to bear the cost and not ask me (or my grandchildren) to pay for it. As for who is "financing" various opinions, you have those who profit from fossil fuels on one side and virtually every major scientific organization in the world on the other. Feel free to choose.
You don't think "virtually every major scientific organization in the world" have nothing to profit. They're highly invested in global warming their continued funding depends on it. -RP What utter nonsense. Any scientist willing to parrot the (energy) company line can get all the funding they want. Any scientist willing to parrot the (energy) company line can get all the funding they want....DUHHHH ! ! Thats the F-ING PROBLEM ! Throw your money at it but I'll keep mine. You fund 'em Puff they aint gettin mine! ditto Roadkill. It they want to save the world let them pay for it. |
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Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
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fudgie
Member
Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2009, 04:13:08 PM » |
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The only way I change my style of living is when more of my money is needed to pay for my bills. Until I can't afford my bills I'll drive my 4x4, waste gas riding the Valk around the block, burn my trash outside, burn my used motor oil, mow my yard on 'ozone action days', and burn wood in my stove.  Lets not get into what cows farting do to the air! |
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« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2009, 06:17:03 PM » |
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RoadKill
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« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2009, 06:43:56 PM » |
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GREAT ! Now it's a damn ole' Vast right wing CHINESE conspiracy! Even Singapore gonna kill the eco-system. what a shame  I'm gonna release all the R-12 and R134 CFC from my automobile air conditioning system in protest of the decision.  |
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JerryG59
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« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2009, 05:03:07 PM » |
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It looks to me like only two people that use this board believe in man made Global warming and that we should throw money at a manufactured problem. The definition of terrorist fits our Government and media to a tee. Why would anyone believe anything these propagandists say. Why does every problem/crisis they make up cost us money or take away our freedoms ? Thanks for your critique of my last post Scanner....that was brilliant !!!
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Moonshot_1
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« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2009, 05:12:41 PM » |
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I'm waiting for the "Endangered Lunar Water Act"
I'm sure Congress will find a way to tax that. Have to recoup the cost of finding it.
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Mike Luken
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Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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JerryG59
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« Reply #73 on: November 15, 2009, 05:49:51 PM » |
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I don't know Moonshot. Between the health care takeover and the carbon/methane tax they may accomplish their goal of economically destroying any possible way we might have had of digging our way out of poverty. I'm pretty sure that if these two bills are made into law we'll have nothing left for them to tax. Then all they'll have left to do is take our guns. Which will be much easier when many Americans will trade their gun for a bowl of soup. I like the endangered water on the moon tax idea though.
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fstsix
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« Reply #74 on: November 15, 2009, 06:07:45 PM » |
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No no no! They have (Saved) all their Government jobs, And they will (Create) new Prison guard jobs also, This will also help the slow building industry by constructing all the new Prisons, after Polosi puts us in jail for breaking the new laws she will impose every thing will be fine, Perfect don't worry.  |
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JerryG59
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« Reply #75 on: November 15, 2009, 06:15:16 PM » |
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Thanks fstsix, i feel alot better now. No worries mate, we can get jobs as prison guards.
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fstsix
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« Reply #76 on: November 15, 2009, 06:28:55 PM » |
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If i gotta deal with you know..... BUBBA! I think i will look into that new job AZAP! and stay on the other side of the bars.  |
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Puffs Daddy
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« Reply #77 on: November 15, 2009, 09:22:33 PM » |
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It looks to me like only two people that use this board believe in man made Global warming and that we should throw money at a manufactured problem...
Fortunately, this board, much like the Tea Baggers doesn't represent either the current majority of the American electorate nor its future composition. Not to mention the vast majority of the world's scientists. Not especially surprising. |
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JerryG59
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« Reply #78 on: November 15, 2009, 09:50:04 PM » |
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I guess we'll find out how many " Tea baggers " there are in the 2010 elections. Not that i think it's a good idea to switch to neo-cons. Might be good for the country to get some independents in there that take their oath to defend the constitution seriously. God knows we don't have many of those in there now.
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« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2009, 03:43:42 AM » |
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In Colorado many of their ski resorts just had their earliest opening day ever. Summer of 2009 was the third coolest on record in north America. China just had what may have been the heaviest snowfall ever, collapsing 7,000 buildings. Anyone else have problems with their gardens this year ? My tomatos froze on August 15th. Where i live it use to get over 100 degrees several times each summer. It hasn't hit 100 here in at least seven years. If this is Global warming what would Global cooling be like ? I don't know but i'm bringin a warm coat. If i can still afford one. I don't need a scientist to tell me it's not getting hotter. Even if i did see it was getting warmer there's something else that could be driving it, it's called the sun. It seems to me that the number of people who believe man made Global warmaing is real is decreasing. While people that believe it's a hoax is increasing. Pretty soon the only people that believe the hoax will be Al Gore, PD and Scanner. They better hurry up with that bill before it's to late.
I'd be embarrassed to make this post. Of course, what it's like in Colorado, and self observed anecdotal evidence must be a more accurate gauge of what's really going on, than the work being done by thousands of researchers throughout the world. Clearly, you DO need a scientist to tell you it's getting hotter. You are watching far too much Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh because the opposite of what you said is true: More people everyday understand that global warming is man made and a very serious threat. Why do you think this is a 'liberal' or 'conservative' debate? It's a debate about what is happening to the earth (and if you did any research at all you'd find that a lot is happening, none of it good, stuff that may not affect you in your life time but guaranteed to screw with your children and grandchildren). Educated people may debate cause and solution but only the uninformed are content to call it a hoax. |
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