LB
Member
Posts: 84
2003
Upstate South Carolina
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« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2018, 03:19:59 AM » |
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2018, 05:11:05 AM » |
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Lets keep in mind boys that this is Jerseys topic about HIS improvement to the shifter mod,,, hijacking is frowned upon. Maybe start another topic if there is interest in discussing other modifications.
Thanks Pancho. I do enjoy the brainstorming though. While the geometry of the problem is fairly straight forward, the solutions are endless. The trick is, in my view, to design something that gives the maximum gain but is the least invasive... plus it has to look good! The pipes and H/T add-ons add some complexity.
To the questions:-Tutrle254 - The engine/crash bolt does seem to hold the bracket's position very well. In my photo you'll notice the angle of this bracket to the angle of the brace that's attached to the pedel. The pressure during use doesn't seem to cause the bracket to move much anyway even when the engine bolt is loosened. I think this is why it works well. Again, cudos to Ammpro's design for initially figuring that out. -90-degree design - Thought about this, but observed the left (outward) face of the toe lever seems to line up fairly well just behind (to the right of) the left face of the crash bar mounting hole... where the bolt seats. The complexity of a 90-deg bracket didn't seem worth it, especially when a few washers could be added to the long spacer that goes between the crash bar and the frame. I was able to add washers to fine-tune the lineup of the bracket and the pedal brace. Update on Bushing: I'm going to experiment with a sealed miniature ball bearing (.25"x.5") instead of the sleeve bushing to improve longevity of the design. it's likely the sleeve bushing will wearout in short order. Would prefer a design that can survive longer and maybe be forgotten. |
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« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 06:41:24 AM by Jersey »
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Jersey
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2018, 06:38:29 AM » |
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Interesting the amount of grey matter being burnt up  regarding modifying and improving ??? a system that is already proved to be very reliable and trouble free as evidenced by all the thousands of Valkyries with hundreds of thousands of miles logged. Save for a infinitesimal amount of oil seals that need replacing. *** |
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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Tfrank59
Member
Posts: 1364
'98 Tourer
Western Washington
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« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2018, 07:28:01 AM » |
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Exercising one's brain, especially an old brain like mine, actually enhances its function rather than depleting it. Go ahead and let us grapple with this issue -- what can it hurt?  |
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-Tom
Keep the rubber side down. USMC '78-'84
'98 Valkyrie, ‘02 VTX 1800, '96 Royal Star, '06 Drifter, '09 Bonneville, '10 KTM 530, '04 XR 650, '76 Bultaco, '81 CR 450, '78 GS 750...
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Ken aka Oil Burner
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« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2018, 07:34:39 AM » |
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Interesting the amount of grey matter being burnt up regarding modifying and improving ??? a system that is already proved to be very reliable and trouble free as evidenced by all the thousands of Valkyries with hundreds of thousands of miles logged. Save for a infinitesimal amount of oil seals that need replacing. *** While it may not be "necessary", the feel of the shifter is improved substantially. If you don't care to do the mod, then don't. I did Ammpro's mod on my 1998 with approx 45K. The seal was not leaking. When I grabbed the shift rod where the lever attaches, I could move it up and down a fair amount. With the mod installed, the lateral play in the rod is gone. Riding the bike back-to-back verified that the shifting is more crisp and feels far more precise. While feel is subjective, measured free play is fact. If one wishes to make the shifting feel more to their liking, then they should go for it. Motorcycles are built well by Honda, but almost every single owner of every single bike does something to improve or modify it to make it right for them. Seats, handlebars, horns, foot controls, grips, etc. The list is endless. There are plenty of things that I wouldn't do to mine that others have, but I respect their choice to go for it. |
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Avanti
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« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2018, 07:44:40 AM » |
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Yes Honda's version works.
I fixed mine years ago, because the ease and accuracy that this type of proper engineering gives, along with clutch and throttle coordination makes for a much smoother and quieter shift.
So solving this inapt design is well worth the time.
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2018, 09:18:24 AM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4 |
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Jersey
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Tfrank59
Member
Posts: 1364
'98 Tourer
Western Washington
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« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2018, 09:25:35 AM » |
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that really helps a lot--thanks! I'm going to build one--you sold me. it's solid and looks great, like it could be OE. polished up your pipes for the vid, eh?  |
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-Tom
Keep the rubber side down. USMC '78-'84
'98 Valkyrie, ‘02 VTX 1800, '96 Royal Star, '06 Drifter, '09 Bonneville, '10 KTM 530, '04 XR 650, '76 Bultaco, '81 CR 450, '78 GS 750...
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2018, 09:28:09 AM » |
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that really helps a lot--thanks! I'm going to build one--you sold me. it's solid and looks great, like it could be OE. polished up your pipes for the vid, eh? Oh she needs a bath so badily! That was the day after it I commuted in the rain. Now, temps are around 32F these days... |
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Jersey
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Brewer
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« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2018, 10:12:12 AM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4Are you willing to set a price and take orders? |
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Brewer - it is a hobby
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WintrSol
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« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2018, 10:13:56 AM » |
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That video tells it all; where are my tools?
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98 Honda Valkyrie GL1500CT Tourer
Photo of my FIL Jack, in honor of his WWII service
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2018, 10:56:21 AM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4Are you willing to set a price and take orders? Well, I'd do that, but frankly I want to improve it so it's easy to make and install. Give me a few weeks and I'll throw something out there for folks to consider. Thanks! |
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Jersey
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Avanti
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« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2018, 10:58:01 AM » |
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Very nice fix. I have no doubt it works as well as it looks.
Simplicity and effectiveness make for good designs.
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Tfrank59
Member
Posts: 1364
'98 Tourer
Western Washington
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« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2018, 11:30:03 AM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4Are you willing to set a price and take orders? Well, I'd do that, but frankly I want to improve it so it's easy to make and install. Give me a few weeks and I'll throw something out there for folks to consider. Thanks! sounds good put me down for one |
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-Tom
Keep the rubber side down. USMC '78-'84
'98 Valkyrie, ‘02 VTX 1800, '96 Royal Star, '06 Drifter, '09 Bonneville, '10 KTM 530, '04 XR 650, '76 Bultaco, '81 CR 450, '78 GS 750...
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pancho
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« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2018, 04:47:14 PM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4Looks like you got a winner Jersey, I can almost feel how crisp the shifts are. |
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The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
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Toovalks
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« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2018, 08:25:59 PM » |
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Am I wrong ?? or do you lose most of the ability to adjust the angle of your shift lever??
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indybobm
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« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2018, 03:44:52 AM » |
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Am I wrong ?? or do you lose most of the ability to adjust the angle of your shift lever??
Yes, you do lose the ability to adjust it, but once adjusted to where the owner wants it there is no reason to change it after that it after that. That does bring up a good point though. If the shift lever has been rotated from stock location, that can change the design of the modification. |
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« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 03:54:53 AM by indybobm »
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So many roads, so little time
VRCC # 5258
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Tfrank59
Member
Posts: 1364
'98 Tourer
Western Washington
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« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2018, 04:42:47 AM » |
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I was thinking that too. So isn't it just that for each different position on the spline you would have different hole locations? I was also wondering if in Jersey's case it's the same spline position as where I've got mine which is essentially dead horizontal (and I have not changed it). His looks to be maybe one spline position off from that. Just curious.
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-Tom
Keep the rubber side down. USMC '78-'84
'98 Valkyrie, ‘02 VTX 1800, '96 Royal Star, '06 Drifter, '09 Bonneville, '10 KTM 530, '04 XR 650, '76 Bultaco, '81 CR 450, '78 GS 750...
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2018, 05:17:23 AM » |
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Am I wrong ?? or do you lose most of the ability to adjust the angle of your shift lever??
Yes, you do lose the ability to adjust it, but once adjusted to where the owner wants it there is no reason to change it after that it after that. That does bring up a good point though. If the shift lever has been rotated from stock location, that can change the design of the modification. CORRECT. This is part of the developmental aspect I'm still undergoing. From what I can tell so far, IF the pedal hole on the bracket is a curved opening rather than a single hole... that might account for variations in different spline setups. This doesn't account for the extension piece unfortunately. This is where Ammpro's approach is superior as it allows for the full range of setups (spline placement) that are possible. I think there's 36T on the Pedal Spline. For initial design purposes I'm going to assume the extension bracket is set OEM. Just too much to account for otherwise. Plus the OEM setting still allows for a wide range of individual adjust of the Pedal anyway. Assuming the 36teeth spline is correct (anyone want check that??) I'm wondering if say 2 +- offset is sufficient to accommodate in the design? That's a 40-deg swing to account for individual rider adjustment. Thoughts?? |
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« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 05:41:57 AM by Jersey »
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Jersey
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DK
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« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2018, 06:18:52 AM » |
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I’ve had my shifter mod working with a Rattlebar for two years.
Wil st c later.
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Machinery has a mysterious soul and a mind of its own.
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2018, 02:01:04 PM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4Are you willing to set a price and take orders? Check Post #1 for the updates on cost and taking orders. |
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Jersey
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Avanti
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« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2018, 04:05:54 PM » |
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I wish I knew someone in Cali that could do this to my bike  Give me a little time to perfect the design and maybe something can be worked out.  The primary thing is to get it chromed so it doesn't rust. That's always a bit of a cost. Since having it stamped our of 3/16" steel isn't cost effective, there's also a bit of labor to making it so it works and looks good. oh, I like that idea! Can you recommend anyone to do this? You could have each piece, including the holes, laser cut out of polished stainless steel. I assume you fond someone to do the laser cutting for you. I do have someone, but i think there should be someone more local. |
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WintrSol
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« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2018, 04:09:05 PM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4Are you willing to set a price and take orders? Check Post #1 for the updates on cost and taking orders. Order request sent; thanks for all your work on this. Hope you get many more than the minimum! |
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98 Honda Valkyrie GL1500CT Tourer
Photo of my FIL Jack, in honor of his WWII service
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2018, 04:26:11 PM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4Are you willing to set a price and take orders? Check Post #1 for the updates on cost and taking orders. I've been following your progress. You do fast work ! Does the elongated hole slot allow for mounting on bikes with the shifter splines not in the original position ? I know I have altered the spline positions on my Interstate with lowered boards. |
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2018, 12:19:23 AM » |
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Here's a video of the design in action. Still a work in progress, but it really makes an improvement on the shifting being very solid. You'll notice how little effort it takes to change gears. I can attest it's much less than I've had to do without this modification. https://youtu.be/5vjrRYBCwY4Are you willing to set a price and take orders? Check Post #1 for the updates on cost and taking orders. I've been following your progress. You do fast work ! Does the elongated hole slot allow for mounting on bikes with the shifter splines not in the original position ? I know I have altered the spline positions on my Interstate with lowered boards. Appreciate the feedback! The elongated hole provides a 40-deg sweep, which equals 2 spline settings UP or DOWN from OEM positioning of the Pedal lever on the extension. Let me know how many teeth you've offset from OEM. I could easily adjust the design to match. |
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Jersey
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turtle254
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« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2018, 07:20:54 AM » |
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The problem comes with the bearing location bracket. My location off engine bolt (98 std) is 5/8" c/c of bolt holes. Maybe leave bolt holes off and drill on site of user?
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Avanti
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« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2018, 08:30:38 AM » |
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The problem comes with the bearing location bracket. My location off engine bolt (98 std) is 5/8" c/c of bolt holes. Maybe leave bolt holes off and drill on site of user?
Most people would not be able to drill 304 or 316 stainless steel. The M8x10 mounting hole in the Brace could also be slotted to help in proper pivot location; if there is indeed a difference in location. |
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 08:32:15 AM by Avanti »
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2018, 09:01:01 AM » |
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The problem comes with the bearing location bracket. My location off engine bolt (98 std) is 5/8" c/c of bolt holes. Maybe leave bolt holes off and drill on site of user?
Just to understand better. If you're looking in from the left side of the bike. The offset of the centerlines of the crash bar M8 Bolt and the Shift Spindle (PN# 24620-MN5-000)... you're saying these are 5/8" offset from each other? It appears the frame, cross mounting bar, and crash bar are different for the I/S vs Stand/Tourer. This could cause different offset dimensions between the M8 Crash Bar Bolt and the Transmission Shift Spline. Can anyone else with a Stand/Tourer verify what the Offset is between these two bolt centerlines... looking from the left side into the bolts. Thanks! |
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 02:06:24 PM by Jersey »
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Jersey
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Kaahn
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« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2018, 01:55:09 PM » |
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Could this be added with the BTT forward control kit? I would be interested...
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Garage:
1973 Honda C70
1999 Honda Magna
1997 Honda Valkyrie
1995 Honda Goldwing
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Avanti
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« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2018, 02:31:55 PM » |
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The part numbers for the sub frames are the same for both GL1500CF and GL1500CT, so the engine guard holes are the same.
SUB-FRAME, L. 50184-MZ0-000
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turtle254
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« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2018, 03:04:07 PM » |
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The problem comes with the bearing location bracket. My location off engine bolt (98 std) is 5/8" c/c of bolt holes. Maybe leave bolt holes off and drill on site of user?
Just to understand better. If you're looking in from the left side of the bike. The offset of the centerlines of the crash bar M8 Bolt and the Shift Spindle (PN# 24620-MN5-000)... you're saying these are 5/8" offset from each other? It appears the frame, cross mounting bar, and crash bar are different for the I/S vs Stand/Tourer. This could cause different offset dimensions between the M8 Crash Bar Bolt and the Transmission Shift Spline. Can anyone else with a Stand/Tourer verify what the Offset is between these two bolt centerlines... looking from the left side into the bolts. Thanks! Check PANCHO post, he found the same thing. Post 1644 … don't know which model he has, but mine is different. |
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2018, 03:54:06 PM » |
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Could this be added with the BTT forward control kit? I would be interested...
That might require some more pieces/parts... |
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Jersey
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2018, 01:39:50 PM » |
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The part numbers for the sub frames are the same for both GL1500CF and GL1500CT, so the engine guard holes are the same.
SUB-FRAME, L. 50184-MZ0-000
This is what I pulled from https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-gl1500cf-valkyrie-interstate-1999-x-usa_model1082/partslist/#.XAMJ82hKiUl. Seems the 99-01 CF Subframe is unique. the rest of the models/years use the same combo. 1999 CF SubFrame: 50100MBY000 Left Eng Brace: 50184MZ0000 1999 C Subframe: 50100MZ0000 Left Eng Brace: 50184MZ0000 1998 C Subframe: 50100MZ0000 Left Eng Brace: 50184MZ0000 1998 CT Subframe: 50100MZ0000 Left Eng Brace: 50184MZ0000 Can someone with a Standard or Tourer take a measurement of the offset between the centerlines of the M8 crash bar bolt and the Shifting rod on the engine? See how that compares to the I/S |
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Jersey
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WintrSol
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« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2018, 02:20:30 PM » |
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The engine guards are different, too: 62503-MBY-000 for the CF and 62503-MZ0-000 for the others. The CT guard has an additional brace.
Unfortunately, that area on my bike is unreachable (stored), so maybe someone else can get the measurement? It looks like ~1/2", but that's the best I can do.
I'm guessing turtle254's measurement of 5/8" is about right.
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« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 02:31:04 PM by WintrSol »
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98 Honda Valkyrie GL1500CT Tourer
Photo of my FIL Jack, in honor of his WWII service
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Avanti
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« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2018, 02:21:15 PM » |
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The part numbers for the sub frames are the same for both GL1500CF and GL1500CT, so the engine guard holes are the same.
SUB-FRAME, L. 50184-MZ0-000
This is what I pulled from https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-gl1500cf-valkyrie-interstate-1999-x-usa_model1082/partslist/#.XAMJ82hKiUl. Seems the 99-01 CF Subframe is unique. the rest of the models/years use the same combo. 1999 CF SubFrame: 50100MBY000 Left Eng Brace: 50184MZ0000 1999 C Subframe: 50100MZ0000 Left Eng Brace: 50184MZ0000 1998 C Subframe: 50100MZ0000 Left Eng Brace: 50184MZ0000 1998 CT Subframe: 50100MZ0000 Left Eng Brace: 50184MZ0000 Can someone with a Standard or Tourer take a measurement of the offset between the centerlines of the M8 crash bar bolt and the Shifting rod on the engine? See how that compares to the I/S In the parts picture the 50100MBY000 (Frame Body Comp.) has the 50184MZ0000 (Frame Comp, L Sub) bolted to it. The 50184MZ0000 (Frame Comp, L Sub) is the part that the left engine guard mounts to. Its my understanding that some owners of the Interstate have remove there Pods and used engine guards from the other models to do so and C, CT owners have put Pods on using Interstate engine guards. I have not heard or read of any difference, but there is always something more to learn. |
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Bighead
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« Reply #75 on: December 01, 2018, 06:01:28 PM » |
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I dont always agree with Ricky D but in this case I do. 120k plus and only one seal replacement.
Never had a prolem with shifts yet.
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #76 on: December 01, 2018, 08:46:38 PM » |
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I dont always agree with Ricky D but in this case I do. 120k plus and only one seal replacement.
Never had a prolem with shifts yet.
Just curious... Have you tried shifting with this kind of mod? |
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Jersey
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indybobm
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« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2018, 06:35:21 AM » |
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The problem comes with the bearing location bracket. My location off engine bolt (98 std) is 5/8" c/c of bolt holes. Maybe leave bolt holes off and drill on site of user?
I have been following this post but the 5/8" dimension is confusing. What is it a measurement of? Is it the distance between the centerline of the rear engine crash bolt and the centerline of the shift shaft where it comes out of the engine? I believe that the dimensions of all lower frame rails are the same. I also believe that the diminsions of the rear of all crashbars are the same. The only difference between IS and STD/Tourer crashbars are the mounting points for the pods on the IS. Where does the measurement of 5/8" come from? |
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So many roads, so little time
VRCC # 5258
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2018, 07:01:02 AM » |
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The problem comes with the bearing location bracket. My location off engine bolt (98 std) is 5/8" c/c of bolt holes. Maybe leave bolt holes off and drill on site of user?
I have been following this post but the 5/8" dimension is confusing. What is it a measurement of? Is it the distance between the centerline of the rear engine crash bolt and the centerline of the shift shaft where it comes out of the engine? Yes. That's what needs to be verified.I believe that the dimensions of all lower frame rails are the same. I also believe that the diminsions of the rear of all crashbars are the same. The only difference between IS and STD/Tourer crashbars are the mounting points for the pods on the IS. Check the earlier posting. The I/S shows a different Subframe p/n than the Stand/Tourer. All models use the same left Brace.Where does the measurement of 5/8" come from? One of the other posters said this is what they measured. So what I'm trying to do is VERIFY what other Stand/Tourer owners find. |
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Jersey
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Jersey
Member
Posts: 545
VRCC #37540
Southern Maryland
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« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2018, 07:18:07 AM » |
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thank you but what is it measuring?
The measurement is the centerline offset of the two bolts you described in your first question. |
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Jersey
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