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Author Topic: Valk started this am, then died, no lights no horn???  (Read 4552 times)
captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« on: November 18, 2009, 02:11:03 PM »

Ok I thought it might be a fuse, just checked and they are all right. Main buss fuse looks good. Turn the key and nothing, how do I check to see if the key switch died? I removed the cover and took the key switch off, but don't see where I can check any of the wires to see if power is getting to it?
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2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
Black Dog
Member
*****
Posts: 2606


VRCC # 7111

Merton Wisconsin 53029


« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 02:31:11 PM »

Dead bike can mean a bad 'Starter Relay'.  Similar thing happened to me, and $75 later, for a new relay, I was back on the road.

Go to this link, and scroll down to where it says 'Valkyrie starter "relay" problem'...  Good info, and a pretty easy fix.

http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/starter.html

Good luck.

Black Dog
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Just when the highway straightened out for a mile
And I was thinkin' I'd just cruise for a while
A fork in the road brought a new episode
Don't you know...

Conform, go crazy, or ride a motorcycle...

Dodis
Member
*****
Posts: 251


'98 Blue & Cream

Texas City, TX


« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 02:39:09 PM »

When I had the same thing happen, I thought of all that I had read here, starter switch, kill switch, relay, etc. In desperation, I checked the battery, a cell has died and the battery was not putting out anything, new battery fixed me right up.

Just something else to check...

Mike "Dodis"
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mr_dodis(a)yahoo.com
DS#513 GY-TT 205/60   (still waiting for my cookie!)
BamaDrifter64
Member
*****
Posts: 1020


Athens, Alabama


« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2009, 02:41:20 PM »

Are you sure the battery didn't take a dive on you?  I had one do that at a gas station once.  It was fine when I stopped; filled her up, turned the key, hit the starter switch and bang! battery was gone.  No amount of jumping it off or pushing it off will work once a battery cell goes south on you.  

Dave


Dang, Dodis....you beat me to the punch by just a couple of minutes!   tickedoff   2funny
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 02:43:06 PM by BamaDrifter64 » Logged

kruzn
Member
*****
Posts: 65


Illinois


« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2009, 02:54:52 PM »

Also check the connection where the negative battery cable attaches to the engine. I had the same symptoms and the relay, battery, etc. all checked OK. Replaced the neg cable and all was good.

Another potential problem is melted connection on the starter relay. Mine was melted but was not the problem in my case. However, I repaired the melted connector anyway to prevent future failure.
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Cruisin Dave
VRCC #46
CMA #141825
1997 Honda Valkyrie Tourer SE
2002 Boss Hoss 32 Trike
2015 Indian Roadmaster CSC Trike
1972 Triumph Chopper
1976 Honda CB550F Super Sport
R J
Member
*****
Posts: 13380


DS-0009 ...... # 173

Des Moines, IA


« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2009, 03:21:33 PM »

Here is what  the melt connector looks like.

 

Order this little feller & you will be good to go.

You have to move a wire or 2 in the connector, just match the new one to your old one.
This part is for an older Gold Wing and works just fine.

Lots cheaper than the Valkyrie solution


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44 Harley ServiCar
 



 

captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2009, 03:33:43 PM »

No luck there, it looks ok, and the fuse was alright. Got power at the battery, but no where else. It does have to get thru the key switch for power to get to the relay right?
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2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2009, 03:37:53 PM »

All checks out, got plenty of juice at the battery, but I'll go check the battery ground on the engine. Relay is fine, no problems there.
Thanks,
Sharky

Also check the connection where the negative battery cable attaches to the engine. I had the same symptoms and the relay, battery, etc. all checked OK. Replaced the neg cable and all was good.

Another potential problem is melted connection on the starter relay. Mine was melted but was not the problem in my case. However, I repaired the melted connector anyway to prevent future failure.
Logged

2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2009, 03:50:51 PM »

Battery ground cable is tight, doesn't seem to be a problem there.????????? tickedoff


All checks out, got plenty of juice at the battery, but I'll go check the battery ground on the engine. Relay is fine, no problems there.
Thanks,
Sharky

Also check the connection where the negative battery cable attaches to the engine. I had the same symptoms and the relay, battery, etc. all checked OK. Replaced the neg cable and all was good.

Another potential problem is melted connection on the starter relay. Mine was melted but was not the problem in my case. However, I repaired the melted connector anyway to prevent future failure.
Logged

2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
roboto65
Member
*****
Posts: 878


Conroe,TX


« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 04:11:00 PM »

Starter switch is dirty check that it should fix you up !!
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Allen Rugg                                                       
VRCC #30806
1999 Illusion Blue Valkyrie Interstate
1978 Kawasaki KZ 650 project
captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2009, 04:29:00 PM »

OK, stupid question time, just how do you mean that, I took the cover off, and disconnected it, and it look clean on the back side. Are you saying to spray some contact cleaner in there???


Starter switch is dirty check that it should fix you up !!
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2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
Bone
Member
*****
Posts: 1596


« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2009, 05:47:05 PM »

Have you done the starter button maintenance ?  This has helped most of us with similar conditions.


http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/starter.html
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roboto65
Member
*****
Posts: 878


Conroe,TX


« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2009, 06:22:17 PM »

Sorry meant the Starter button check the site Bone put up  coolsmiley
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Allen Rugg                                                       
VRCC #30806
1999 Illusion Blue Valkyrie Interstate
1978 Kawasaki KZ 650 project
kruzn
Member
*****
Posts: 65


Illinois


« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2009, 08:27:57 PM »

Don't assume that a tight bolt on the neg cable to engine connection is OK. Mine was tight too. Take the bolt out, clean the bolt, cable terminal and engine case. Reinstall with a star washer on each side of the terminal, or at least one between the terminal and the engine.

I chased the same problem as yours for two weeks because I assumed a tight bolt meant a good electrical connection. Not saying that it is necessarily your problem too, but it is worth a few minutes work to make sure.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 08:29:39 PM by kruzn » Logged

Cruisin Dave
VRCC #46
CMA #141825
1997 Honda Valkyrie Tourer SE
2002 Boss Hoss 32 Trike
2015 Indian Roadmaster CSC Trike
1972 Triumph Chopper
1976 Honda CB550F Super Sport
RoboCop
Member
*****
Posts: 182


Rose City OREGON


« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2009, 09:11:56 PM »

Dunno about you but I can't figure anything electrical out without a diagram.

I'm with RJ, first guess would be to check the red connector on the starter relay.  If you have voltage on the red wire terminal and want to test the ignition switch, it seems that testing for voltage where the ignition feeds into the fuseblock might be easiest.

Good luck



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captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2009, 10:08:05 AM »

Don't think it's the starter button, there is no power even making it to the fuse. But thanks.

Have you done the starter button maintenance ?  This has helped most of us with similar conditions.


http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/starter.html
Logged

2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2009, 10:28:04 AM »

Ok, I'll get in there tonight when I get home and do just that. Thanks for the feedback.
Sharky


Don't assume that a tight bolt on the neg cable to engine connection is OK. Mine was tight too. Take the bolt out, clean the bolt, cable terminal and engine case. Reinstall with a star washer on each side of the terminal, or at least one between the terminal and the engine.

I chased the same problem as yours for two weeks because I assumed a tight bolt meant a good electrical connection. Not saying that it is necessarily your problem too, but it is worth a few minutes work to make sure.


Logged

2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2009, 10:31:37 AM »

I hear you there, I'll print these when I get home and do some more testing. Thanks for the diagram. And DLParts does not have any and would have to order the key switch or the lock set, either way. Looks like this is going to be a two week ordeal!!!!
Thanks,
Sharky coolsmiley

Dunno about you but I can't figure anything electrical out without a diagram.

I'm with RJ, first guess would be to check the red connector on the starter relay.  If you have voltage on the red wire terminal and want to test the ignition switch, it seems that testing for voltage where the ignition feeds into the fuseblock might be easiest.

Good luck




Logged

2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
R J
Member
*****
Posts: 13380


DS-0009 ...... # 173

Des Moines, IA


« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2009, 12:37:15 PM »

Captshark.    Currently you out rank me since I retired.

But I'm not sensing we are getting through to you.........

Let's try it by the #'s.

1.   Find right side cover
      a.  It be on the same side as the rear brake pedal.
2.   Remove side cover and be careful to not break any tabs off.
3.   Look for a fat round rubber cover.
4.   Pull it off the wires carefully.
      a.  You pull any junction points out, plug em back in before ya forget where they go.     Match colors.
5.   You should find a red connector like in the picture, hopefully in better shape.
6.   It has a fuse in it.  
      a.   Is the fuse stuck?
            1.  Pull fuse and look it over along with the connector.
            2.  Test fuse on both ends, if it will come out.
            3.  Repair as needed.
      b.  Not stuck
            2.   proceed to # 7
7.   PERFORM THE FIRKING STARTER SWITCH WE BEEN SUGGESTING FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS.............

Now, if I missed where you already did this, I'm sorry, but to make an old fart happy, DO IT AGAIN, LOOK IT OVER THIS TIME
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44 Harley ServiCar
 



 

captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2009, 09:28:38 AM »

It's just sharky now, that left over from when I used to run a dive charter boat.
I follow you, and have done just that, pulled out the relay, checked the fuse, and condishion of the leads, and check all the other fuses. They all check out fine. With the key on, I have tested the leads to the relay, and no power there. A friend suggest to jump power from the battery to the light fuse and see if they come on. The battery shows good with the metter, and shows good to the ground on the engine. I am not sure why I would want to mess with the starter button, till I get power to the lights, if there is no power there, or to the light bar, which is relaied also there shouldn't be any power to the started button. If I get the lights back on, power running thru that circut, and the starter button doesn't work then I will check it out. I am guessing here but if the key switch doesn't pass power thru, then nothing else will work, like lights and horn, light bar????? So I need to pull the plug on it and see if it's getting power. If not then I guess it time to order one. I plan the check all that tomorrow, have to go to church tonight.

Sharky


Captshark.    Currently you out rank me since I retired.

But I'm not sensing we are getting through to you.........

Let's try it by the #'s.

1.   Find right side cover
      a.  It be on the same side as the rear brake pedal.
2.   Remove side cover and be careful to not break any tabs off.
3.   Look for a fat round rubber cover.
4.   Pull it off the wires carefully.
      a.  You pull any junction points out, plug em back in before ya forget where they go.     Match colors.
5.   You should find a red connector like in the picture, hopefully in better shape.
6.   It has a fuse in it.  
      a.   Is the fuse stuck?
            1.  Pull fuse and look it over along with the connector.
            2.  Test fuse on both ends, if it will come out.
            3.  Repair as needed.
      b.  Not stuck
            2.   proceed to # 7
7.   PERFORM THE FIRKING STARTER SWITCH WE BEEN SUGGESTING FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS.............

Now, if I missed where you already did this, I'm sorry, but to make an old fart happy, DO IT AGAIN, LOOK IT OVER THIS TIME
Logged

2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
mikeb
Member
*****
Posts: 311


vrcc-29271

dansville mi by lansing mi


« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2009, 07:39:52 AM »

if you jumped the contacts on the starter relay under the right side this would rule out bad connections from the battery to the frame the 10 mill nuts from one side to the other.. but make sure the bike is not in gear if it rolls over.. batt = good ..cables = good....   you have fuse or wiring bad  move on
 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 07:41:23 AM by mikeb » Logged

i dont care what you ride just ride
mike & kari
mivrcc capital city leader
s.s.d.d.
kruzn
Member
*****
Posts: 65


Illinois


« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2009, 07:58:36 AM »

Sharky,
If you checked the battery-to-engine ground with a low-current continuity tester (or multimeter set on ohms) you may still not have a good ground on the battery cable. Try this:

- Set multimeter on 20 volt range
- Connect positive test lead to negative battery terminal
- Connect negative test lead to engine case (make sure you have good connection)
- The voltmeter should read zero if the cable connection is OK
- If you see 12 volts, then the cable connection is bad

Another way to check is to use jumper cables (regular jumper cables, not a light duty wire) to bypass the negative battery cable. Connect one of the jumper cables to negative battery terminal and the other end to good connection on the engine. Then try lights, ignition, starter.

Hope this helps.
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Cruisin Dave
VRCC #46
CMA #141825
1997 Honda Valkyrie Tourer SE
2002 Boss Hoss 32 Trike
2015 Indian Roadmaster CSC Trike
1972 Triumph Chopper
1976 Honda CB550F Super Sport
Ricky-D
Member
*****
Posts: 5031


South Carolina midlands


« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2009, 03:00:38 PM »

Sharky,
If you checked the battery-to-engine ground with a low-current continuity tester (or multimeter set on ohms) you may still not have a good ground on the battery cable. Try this:

- Set multimeter on 20 volt range
- Connect positive test lead to negative battery terminal
- Connect negative test lead to engine case (make sure you have good connection)
- The voltmeter should read zero if the cable connection is OK
- If you see 12 volts, then the cable connection is bad

Another way to check is to use jumper cables (regular jumper cables, not a light duty wire) to bypass the negative battery cable. Connect one of the jumper cables to negative battery terminal and the other end to good connection on the engine. Then try lights, ignition, starter.

Hope this helps.

I think it would stay at "zero" regardless.  That is to say there is no current flowing and should be no current flowing with the key in the "off" position.

***
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
R J
Member
*****
Posts: 13380


DS-0009 ...... # 173

Des Moines, IA


« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2009, 03:37:22 PM »

It's just sharky now, that left over from when I used to run a dive charter boat.
I follow you, and have done just that, pulled out the relay, checked the fuse, and condition of the leads, and check all the other fuses. They all check out fine. With the key on, I have tested the leads to the relay, and no power there. A friend suggest to jump power from the battery to the light fuse and see if they come on. The battery shows good with the meter, and shows good to the ground on the engine. I am not sure why I would want to mess with the starter button, till I get power to the lights, if there is no power there, or to the light bar, which is relaied also there shouldn't be any power to the started button. If I get the lights back on, power running thru that circuit, and the starter button doesn't work then I will check it out. I am guessing here but if the key switch doesn't pass power thru, then nothing else will work, like lights and horn, light bar????? So I need to pull the plug on it and see if it's getting power. If not then I guess it time to order one. I plan the check all that tomorrow, have to go to church tonight.

Sharky


Captshark.    Currently you out rank me since I retired.

But I'm not sensing we are getting through to you.........

Let's try it by the #'s.

1.   Find right side cover
      a.  It be on the same side as the rear brake pedal.
2.   Remove side cover and be careful to not break any tabs off.
3.   Look for a fat round rubber cover.
4.   Pull it off the wires carefully.
      a.  You pull any junction points out, plug em back in before ya forget where they go.     Match colors.
5.   You should find a red connector like in the picture, hopefully in better shape.
6.   It has a fuse in it.  
      a.   Is the fuse stuck?
            1.  Pull fuse and look it over along with the connector.
            2.  Test fuse on both ends, if it will come out.
            3.  Repair as needed.
      b.  Not stuck
            2.   proceed to # 7
7.   PERFORM THE FIRKING STARTER SWITCH WE BEEN SUGGESTING FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS.............

Now, if I missed where you already did this, I'm sorry, but to make an old fart happy, DO IT AGAIN, LOOK IT OVER THIS TIME

Your theory stinks on how a motorcycle circuit works.

Now, for the last damn time check and do the maintenance on the starter button.

Thank you.

I
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44 Harley ServiCar
 



 

captsharky
Member
*****
Posts: 189


Been riding Honda since 1972.

Sunrise, Florida


« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2009, 08:30:44 AM »

Sorry I don't recall saying I was  a wiz at circuts. But my bigest problem is good tools. You know the old saying. After looking at the wireing again, I went and did some more testing. My test light was showing 12 volts at the battery, but not having a multi meter I took it for good. Just to check I hooked up the battery charger, and it showed no voltage. But it did turn on the lights,  and when the starter button was pused it tried to engag the starter. Took the battery out of the bike and put it on the charger, and it would not take a charge, so I ordered one last night. Wallies world didn't not have any.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
Sharky




It's just sharky now, that left over from when I used to run a dive charter boat.
I follow you, and have done just that, pulled out the relay, checked the fuse, and condition of the leads, and check all the other fuses. They all check out fine. With the key on, I have tested the leads to the relay, and no power there. A friend suggest to jump power from the battery to the light fuse and see if they come on. The battery shows good with the meter, and shows good to the ground on the engine. I am not sure why I would want to mess with the starter button, till I get power to the lights, if there is no power there, or to the light bar, which is relaied also there shouldn't be any power to the started button. If I get the lights back on, power running thru that circuit, and the starter button doesn't work then I will check it out. I am guessing here but if the key switch doesn't pass power thru, then nothing else will work, like lights and horn, light bar????? So I need to pull the plug on it and see if it's getting power. If not then I guess it time to order one. I plan the check all that tomorrow, have to go to church tonight.

Sharky


Captshark.    Currently you out rank me since I retired.

But I'm not sensing we are getting through to you.........

Let's try it by the #'s.

1.   Find right side cover
      a.  It be on the same side as the rear brake pedal.
2.   Remove side cover and be careful to not break any tabs off.
3.   Look for a fat round rubber cover.
4.   Pull it off the wires carefully.
      a.  You pull any junction points out, plug em back in before ya forget where they go.     Match colors.
5.   You should find a red connector like in the picture, hopefully in better shape.
6.   It has a fuse in it.  
      a.   Is the fuse stuck?
            1.  Pull fuse and look it over along with the connector.
            2.  Test fuse on both ends, if it will come out.
            3.  Repair as needed.
      b.  Not stuck
            2.   proceed to # 7
7.   PERFORM THE FIRKING STARTER SWITCH WE BEEN SUGGESTING FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS.............

Now, if I missed where you already did this, I'm sorry, but to make an old fart happy, DO IT AGAIN, LOOK IT OVER THIS TIME

Your theory stinks on how a motorcycle circuit works.

Now, for the last damn time check and do the maintenance on the starter button.

Thank you.

I
Logged

2001 Valk black Interstate,
1998 T Cobra light bar, Corbin seats  Tank bib, baker air wings, lockable hard bags, luggage rack and trunk. Woody's faring, cruise throttle lock.
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