Engine knock

[andym]

I have not taken my baby out (2000 IS) for a ride in a few weeks (hard to believe) and went to start  her . She was hard to start and I had an engine knock which disappeared after a few minutes. I usually change my oil at the end of summer but have not yet this year so my first thought was to flush the engine with some cheap (if there is such a thing) motorcycle  oil after I run her for a week then put back some nice synthetic and a new filter.

[DFragn]

Mine was just making a knock & ticking sound on startup on the right side. Didn't matter if it sat for a week or just several hours. My oil only had 3k miles on it. The sounds dissipated after about 15 seconds once the oil was circulating. It was similar to the sounds I get with first startup in the Spring after a few months of winter storage.
I decided to adjust the valves. Had a couple of loose ones on the right. They, mine, generally get tighter with time though so I don't know the reason or remember my last valve adjustment [health issues have shortened my short term memory]. maybe I didn't snug the lock-nuts properly last time. This time I torqued them to spec's. It sounds better then it has in a long time now.

Check your oil level although it's probably good and consider a valve adjustment if it's been awhile.

[Pete]

Was it knocking at idle? or under load? like pulling away from a stop.
At idle or at 1500 or 2000 RPM?

Did the knock disappear after it warmed up or before?

Knowing this will help us help you.

Thanks, Pete

[Ricky-D]

Mine was just making a knock & ticking sound on startup on the right side. Didn't matter if it sat for a week or just several hours. My oil only had 3k miles on it. The sounds dissipated after about 15 seconds once the oil was circulating. It was similar to the sounds I get with first startup in the Spring after a few months of winter storage.
I decided to adjust the valves. Had a couple of loose ones on the right. They generally get tighter with time though so I don't know the reason or remember my last valve adjustment [health issues have shortened my short term memory]. maybe I didn't snug the lock-nuts properly last time. This time I torqued them to spec's. It sounds better then it has in a long time now.

Check your oil level although it's probably good and consider a valve adjustment if it's been awhile.

Regretfully I have to take issue with this statement. I know you state that you cannot substantiate what you say.

It is against normal perceived automotive understanding that overhead cam driven valve trains tighten up with mileage and running hours.

Settings will not change to a tighter specification without some outside force like incorrect adjustment, loose adjusting components - like not tightening the jam nuts, or bad valves and/or seats.

In the Valkyrie all components of the valve train are solid. No hydraulics present.

No criticism intended here!

***

[John Schmidt]

Another thing to keep in mind with these flat opposed engines....if the carbs are waaaay out of sync they will really rattle/knock. It's especially noticeable with the older flat-four Wings. On those old ones you'l swear the pistons are swapping holes they'll knock so loud. I even had an old Subaru about 25 yrs. ago, flat four like the old Wings, normally came with a single carb and got terrific mileage. Someone had added a homemade manifold so they could add dual carbs, not sure why because it definitely wasn't a performance car to begin with. It would knock like crazy every morning, finally an old mechanic at church told me to get on original manifold with only one carb and tune it for that.....no more knock.

[Pete]

+1 on Johns statement, carb issues, mixture and sync can cause knocking as can 1 or more missing spark issues. If it is mixture (usually low speed) it will disappear at higher RPMs. If it is spark, RPMs not under load may sound better, but RPMs under load will act like the miss that it is.

Different valve trains will respond differently to miles accumulated and to your care, feeding and riding style. I have seen some that will tighten and some that will loosen. There are many variables that can cause them to change. Quality of and frequency of oil changes is one(looser), quality of components, riding style (grandmother or red line on ever shift change)(looser or tighter), fuel quality (really poor) can cause valve face recision(tighter). 

In a perfect world valve seat wear would offset cam and valve train wear, and require NO adjustment. And with some well engineered and well made valve train we see that.

I would not be that concerned in minor valve adjustment changes from time to time, I would be more concerned about the knocking sound. It needs to be addressed.

Thanks Pete.

[F-106]

Not to start a fight here, but reguards to your reply to DFragn. I too have the same tightening problem with my 01 standard. I run my valves at the 8,000 mile mark and I always fine the exhaust to be tight and the intakes loose. Also we have a 97 standard in our club with the same problem. I do agree with you a overhead valve motor should not do this but , something is going on to make this happen.. 

Mine was just making a knock & ticking sound on startup on the right side. Didn't matter if it sat for a week or just several hours. My oil only had 3k miles on it. The sounds dissipated after about 15 seconds once the oil was circulating. It was similar to the sounds I get with first startup in the Spring after a few months of winter storage.
I decided to adjust the valves. Had a couple of loose ones on the right. They generally get tighter with time though so I don't know the reason or remember my last valve adjustment [health issues have shortened my short term memory]. maybe I didn't snug the lock-nuts properly last time. This time I torqued them to spec's. It sounds better then it has in a long time now.

Check your oil level although it's probably good and consider a valve adjustment if it's been awhile.

Regretfully I have to take issue with this statement. I know you state that you cannot substantiate what you say.

It is against normal perceived automotive understanding that overhead cam driven valve trains tighten up with mileage and running hours.

Settings will not change to a tighter specification without some outside force like incorrect adjustment, loose adjusting components - like not tightening the jam nuts, or bad valves and/or seats.

In the Valkyrie all components of the valve train are solid. No hydraulics present.

No criticism intended here!

***

[strokerduster]

as a valve wears in it will slowly sink into the seat, for lack of a better description. this makes more of the stem protruding from the opposite side, in essence making the stem longer and the valve clearance less. not unusual for valve clearance to tighten up some..............

[Michvalk]

MY thought would be maybe not the proper oil filter. Some filters do not have the checkvalve in them. I believe the one for our engine uses a checkvalve to hold oil in the filter for startup. Maybe when you change the oil and filter, the problem will fix it's self. Make sure you get a filter made for the Valk.

[daytona]

Maybe a bit of hydro lock? Hope the cyl wasn't over fueled!

[andym]

WOW ..

Ok the bike has 35 000 miles on it and I started it today. Started right up then it began to sputter and quit after a few seconnds, but no noticable knock this time. I was planning on doing oil and plugs this week. I like to start with the simple first and work from there .By the way I use Honda OEM oil filters.  Also when I park it in the garage after a ride it smells a bit like its burning?? I think I will do the vacuum hoses this winter also since they are 10 years old. Subsequent to that I can certainly adjust the valves but Im not sure about doing the synch myself (Im not much of a mechanic).
Thanks to all for the laundry list of stuff to try.
I plan to keep my Valk forever (got dual burial plots LOL ).
Monday I will aslo get some Techron fuel cleaner and run a tank of that. That should cover all the easy stuff....
I did take Cobra pipes off this bike and did not put back the OEM jets since so many people told me it would not matter. I will check the plugs when I pull them to see if it is running rich.
Thanks fellow VaLk Owners .........what a crew of great folks.
As a side note ...I'm working Saturdays on a Habitat build in NJ and it was cool to note that about 90 % of the folks there are bikers and there was a student chapter ..Its nice to see in this world that there are still so many nice folks around, when all we hear about on the news are the greedy, dishonest and other nasty folks out there ...I'm sure there are no Valk owners in that croud :-) 

[andym]

One other thought
I bought a can of Sea foam and it indicates that it can be used in the crankcase to free stuck lifters and such. Im hesitant to do that since my uncle taught me that the more modern engines have lube ports and if a solvent is introduced and breaks some gunk free inside the engine, it can plug a hole that is intended to transport oil to a key area like a bearing ??? Once aggain I dont profess to be a mechanic just repeating the little I still remember .................Any thoughts

[Ricky-D]

One other thought
I bought a can of Sea foam and it indicates that it can be used in the crankcase to free stuck lifters and such. Im hesitant to do that since my uncle taught me that the more modern engines have lube ports and if a solvent is introduced and breaks some gunk free inside the engine, it can plug a hole that is intended to transport oil to a key area like a bearing ??? Once aggain I dont profess to be a mechanic just repeating the little I still remember .................Any thoughts

Why would you want to do something like that?

Good motorcycle oil is also a detergent that keeps the insides nice and clean.

If you think there's a problem, just change the oil more often till it comes out clean after 1000 miles or so.

***

[daytona]

One other thought
I bought a can of Sea foam and it indicates that it can be used in the crankcase to free stuck lifters and such. Im hesitant to do that since my uncle taught me that the more modern engines have lube ports and if a solvent is introduced and breaks some gunk free inside the engine, it can plug a hole that is intended to transport oil to a key area like a bearing ??? Once aggain I dont profess to be a mechanic just repeating the little I still remember .................Any thoughts

Why would you want to do something like that?

Good motorcycle oil is also a detergent that keeps the insides nice and clean.

If you think there's a problem, just change the oil more often till it comes out clean after 1000 miles or so.

***

Not like it was an abused sludged up Olds with a stuck hyd lifter! Should we start an oil thread now! Most dig camera's do a short vid, make one and let us hear iT.

[R J]

Someone said good motorcycle oil had a detergent and yada yada.

Let'ss establish one more point.

What oil are you using in the engine?

I'll patiently await your reply.

Then I'll post my thought.

[Ricky-D]

Regarding the Valkyrie motor. This motor has no lifters. Cam driven rocker arms push directly on the valves.

In my Valkyrie I use Schaeffer Supreme 7000 synthetic blend 20w-50

In my V-twin I use Spectro Golden 4 synthetic blend 20w-50

Both oils are top rated.

***

[R J]

I have not taken my baby out (2000 IS) for a ride in a few weeks (hard to believe) and went to start  her . She was hard to start and I had an engine knock which disappeared after a few minutes. I usually change my oil at the end of summer but have not yet this year so my first thought was to flush the engine with some cheap (if there is such a thing) motorcycle  oil after I run her for a week then put back some nice synthetic and a new filter.

What oil (Brand & weight) did you have in it when ya heard the knock?

[R J]

Someone said good motorcycle oil had a detergent and yada yada.

Let'ss establish one more point.

What oil are you using in the engine?

I'll patiently await your reply.

Then I'll post my thought.

Regarding the Valkyrie motor. This motor has no lifters. Cam driven rocker arms push directly on the valves.

In my Valkyrie I use Schaeffer Supreme 7000 synthetic blend 20w-50

In my V-twin I use Spectro Golden 4 synthetic blend 20w-50

Both oils are top rated.

***

Ricky-D, you answering this question?

I wan't that from the originator.  

However, thanks anyway, they are good oil and I use Mobil 1 Auto in all of my vehicles and equipment, that includes the bikes..

[andym]

Rotella T ..Synthetic

[franco6]

the valve backlash will be affected by wear .on my first valve check at 56,000 the intakes were so tight icouldn t get a gauge through.
i ve had similar problems with other over-head cam engines  and shims.
the valk was running smooth as silk ,not a hint of a problem. it runs better and feels tighter with more pep now.
we where in glen rose tx. stoped at a light, going up a hill .when it turns green the trans- am nextto us roared its 305 and took off. at least he tried as i was right there with him  and by second gear was gone ,top of the hill ,175 mph (2-up, heavyly loaded )  the black trans am somewhere way back
kids do not try this at home

[franco6]

oops! thats km per hour !hahaha!!!!

[roboto65]

Hehehehe Yeah thats one fast VALK LOL not saying it could not be done