Good first rifle?

[Savago]

Gentlemen

As a follow up to the previous post ('Good first handgun'), I'm looking for a rifle to put at use what I've learned in the 'NRA first steps rifle orientation' course.

In the course we had the opportunity to shoot rifles with all kinds of action, and my favorite ones were bolt action and lever action (something reassuring about the mechanical feedback while shooting the rifle, dunno why?).

I was considering the Remington 700 (bolt action) or the Marlin 1894 (lever). My guess is that a smaller cartridge is recommended while I'm learning how to properly handle the recoil.

I'm planning to buy new to avoid the never ending legal traps that are posed by California's gun law (which also imposes a severe limitation on what is considered legal in the State).
 

I'm 6ft2 and weight 196lbs, got XXL hands (some gloves are sized XXXL to fit) and the use of the rifle will be range practice (and maybe one day bring it to Alaska?).

Any recommendations?
 

[Bighead]

Get what feels good in your hands and vote republican to insure you can own that firearm in the future.

[Savago]

The Marlin:
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1894/model-1894-44-magnumspecial

[Savago]

The remington:
https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-adl-stainless-synthetic-scope

[Bighead]

Oh no that is a black rifle and very scary to me. You cant own that especially in CA.

[Serk]

The lever and the bolt are such totally different beasts, really need to analyze deeper into what/why you want/need them...

For under 100 yards I'll take the lever action, I remember the last time we went through this silliness folks were referring to lever guns as un-assault rifles, under controlled aimed fire you can shoot one just about as fast as a semi auto and they have usually a decent capacity.

Also think a lot about the caliber you want, that will play into the rifle decision a lot too...

If it's JUST a range toy, to learn on, strongly consider going with a .22, much cheaper to shoot, virtually no recoil, and the skills you learn there will later transfer to something else once you wanna get your "Big Boy" gun.

...and don't ignore the .22 for defensive purposes either, the IDF uses suppressed Ruger 10/22's quite well to stop rioting terrorists.

...or you could build or buy a featureless California legal AR15 abomination:

https://gunnewsdaily.com/featureless-ar-15-parts/

[Savago]

Oh no that os a black rifle and very scary to me. You cant own that especially in CA.

That one you still can, but not for long judging the way gun law is insane in CA, I'm afraid...

[Bighead]

Serk with practice a lever action can be shot at or faster than a semi-auto.

[98valk]

Serk with practice a lever action can be shot at or faster than a semi-auto.

who can forget the Rifleman, Chuck Conners?

"Armed only with a Winchester rifle, a lone, lanky figure walks resolutely down a dusty frontier street.

Suddenly, with almost machine gun-like speed, he begins levering out shot after shot—nine rounds in about 1.5 seconds! He stops, flips the large loop lever of his ’92 Winchester in his unique style, throws in another cartridge, then he grasps it at hip level, when the voice on the TV screen booms out … The Rifleman!"
https://truewestmagazine.com/the-riflemans-rifle-returns/

[flsix]

I would encourage you to go with the .22lr if this will be your first rifle.
Learn trigger control and breathing disciplines without the recoil and muzzle blast of a larger caliber.
Once you are confident with the .22 move up to something else but keep a .22 to have fun and not spend a lot of money in the process.
Good luck in your search.

[Bighead]

I would encourage you to go with the .22lr if this will be your first rifle.
Learn trigger control and breathing disciplines without the recoil and muzzle blast of a larger caliber.
Once you are confident with the .22 move up to something else but keep a .22 to have fun and not spend a lot of money in the process.
Good luck in your search.

He lives in California be would be lucky to
Own any semi auto.
The state with the most gun laws and the most mass shootings according to the stats.

[Oldfishguy]

Yes, a 22 caliber.  Put a red dot scope on it and learn to shoot.  Take it to the range and learn the rise and fall of lead  over distance.  Pretty interesting concept when you have he ability to throw a lot of lead down range for cheap.  I’d recommend the Ruger 10/22 Takedown version.  Not sure if your state allows the banana clips for large capacity as an added extra.

And then a Ruger 44 magnum, unless your shooting some serious distance.

[Savago]

Lever action may be outdated but it is damn cool!

[Pappy!]

FLSix makes a good point so if you can find a compliant one that is the way I would go as well. Cannot beat a .22 to learn on or for just some downright good times at the range.
Serk also makes a good point.
I hunt mainly in Alabama. Woods deer. These are super spooky as they never see farming and they never see man. Shots are typically in heavy woods and not more than 50-75yds. The lever gun is my gun of choice there and most of mine are either Marlin 30-30 or .35 Remington "Brush guns". I have several of them set up in different ways. These guns are good out to 100yds reliably and a bit more if you are really good with them.
If you plan to hunt out West your shots will typically be longer. For that eventual purpose I would choose the Remington 700.

[da prez]

My personal favorite is the Henry Rifle. American made , always was , always will be. I have a 22 octagon barrel golden boy. Heavy but a work of art. I always wanted one and my wife bought it for me. I also have a Henry survival rifle. If this is read by the feds, I didn't write it.


              da prez

[Jess from VA]

Unless you have some particular reason to get a centerfire caliber rifle, I would also recommend a .22 for a first rifle.

Now since you will have a 9mm pistol, getting a rifle in the same caliber can certainly have the advantage of using the same ammunition, but 9mm rifles are nearly all AR variants in 16" carbine barrels with long magazines that are not allowed in CA.  

Notably, the lever gun rifles that shoot pistol cartridges are all revolver caliber .44 Mag/Spl, and .357/38 Spl.  There is no lever gun 9mm that I ever heard of.

Between a bolt and a lever, I would recommend a good quality bolt .22 (which mostly all come with CA friendly 5 shot magazines).  There are only a few lever gun .22 rifles and they cost much more to produce, but are not as accurate as (good) bolt rifles. I don't know a lot about lever .22s, but to me the nature of the small .22 cartridge coupled with the complexity of a tube fed lever gun is asking for mechanical difficulties or jams.

Probably the most famous (and beautiful) lever .22 ever is the Marlin 39A (which is now only offered through their custom shop, with an MSRP of nearly $3500).  A good used one could be found for much less, but probably still at a premium, and you don't want used.


Nearly every gun maker makes decent to good .22 bolt rifles.  But my favorites today are by CZ.  They use top quality steel, rifling, and beautiful walnut and look every bit as good as the finest centerfire hunting rifles you can buy anywhere.  They may cost a couple hundred more than a basic Ruger or Savage, but you are buying a lifetime piece of quality with any CZ rifle.

Now the deal with CZ .22 bolt guns is that many (most) are stocked to principally be shot with the factory iron sights.  They can have scopes added, but they are not optimal for a proper hold and cheek weld to the rifle when scoped.  If you want to use iron sights, then those are great choices.  But if you want a scope (and I recommend a straight 4X for a .22, not a big variable), then you need to buy CZ's American series rifles, which have straight pull stocks designed for scopes.  (And as an aside, if you do intend to get a scope, you need to get one specifically made for rimfire rifles)

Here is CZ's whole .22 lineup.  https://cz-usa.com/product-category/rifles/rimfire/

The new CZ 457 American (and 457 Varmint), just recently replaced the earlier 455's, and are designed for scopes.  BUT, I just looked, and all kinds of CZ 455 models are still for sale new, all over.

457 American


457 Varmint (heavy barrel, flat for-end for bench rest)


457 Lux is a European design with hogback stock made to be an iron sight target rifle (not scoped) (you can see that if you weld your cheek to the stock properly, your eye will be below the line of any scope)


I have a lot of rifles, and my new (used) CZ 455 Varmint .22 is perhaps the single nicest rifle I own.

Not me, and not my scope.


But look, you can spend a few hundred less and get a good, accurate and reliable bolt .22 from many gun makers.  But go down to a big store and look them over and work the actions; a lot of pretty cheap stamped metal parts... though they work.

BTW, I have that Marlin 1894 lever gun in .44 mag, and it's a nice rifle (no scope).  But just because it's a pistol caliber rifle, don't think it's soft recoiling because it's not.  The present MSRP of $835.94, is over twice what I paid for mine new, some 20 years ago.  And the ammo to run it is much more than .22.

And finally regarding .22s, keep in mind there are many different types of .22 ammo to chose from, and with a bolt rifle (unlike some others), you can shoot them all.  Quiet subsonic, shotshell, standard and high velocity.

Doing this will get you kicked out of any range in America.  (so don't do it, especially with a loaded gun)  


  
 

[old2soon]

          I had and now miss terribly a Remington nylon 66. Had a Weaver 3 X 8 variable I believe it was for a scope. Lost track of how many rounds I'D put thru it but a fair guesstimate would be in the 25-30000 range. When I shot it a Lot .22 L R H P was CHEAP. I agree with the others-start out with a .22! You can have lotsa Fun with a .22. RIDE SAFE.

[Bighead]

Ross I too always wanted a Henry and I bought a .17 HMR and it is the truest rifle I have ever shot out kf the box. Didnt get a the goldenboy. But the frontier model. I will add a .22 and  .22 mag to my collection until THEY COME for them

[Pappy!]

Gotta' agree with you on that one, Bighead. I also own one and have been blown away with the accuracy of it.
Now back on topic!

[Bighead]

Gotta' agree with you on that one, Bighead. I also own one and have been blown away with the accuracy of it.
Now back on topic!

Wont find a rifle that shoots more true than that one.   

[cookiedough]

remington 700 or ruger M77 are both good choices for bolt action rifles readily available and reliable not breaking your bank account.  You will find the remington 700 to be heavier than the ruger M77 (or at least if feels that way to me) and in your caliber of choice say .270 or .243 (quickest and enough knockdown power for deer with less kick) or .30-06 or .308.   

As far as lever actions all mentioned are nice but I have a winchester .30-30 great heavier with shorter barrel brush/woods gun up to 100 yards is all though for deer,  after that range the bullet drops too far and not very accurate for me anyways much past say 125 yards.  I have killed deer over 200 yards but not with 1 shot usually.  ONLY thing about the winchester .30-30 is if you want a scope mounted, you have to get side mounts is a little awkward since the cartridge ejects out the top, not the side.  I LOVE rounding off 6 shells like the rifleman since the shorter, heavier barrel has hardly any kick in .30-30 caliber and is VERY quick to shoot faster than say a bolt action rifle, at least for me anyways.  I think Marlin makes a side ejection one which is fine as well. 

You will also need a .22 caliber as well for plinking IMO and hard to beat for price best bang for your buck a ruger 10/22 but that is semi-auto. 

[Bighead]

Yep don’t everyone have. 10/22?  I have one also my Grandfathers marlin 39A.  Lever action and it is true up to 75’yds.   Could maken smiley face at 100+ yds if
Need be.

[Jess from VA]

don’t everyone have. 10/22?

Yes, I have to say that if he hadn't mentioned bolt and lever guns, I would always recommend the Ruger 10-22 to anyone.  Especially if it was to be your only rifle.  It was my very first rifle (not counting BB and pellet guns), and has been shot more than any other firearm I've owned.

It is the .22 semiauto that is as reliable as any made anywhere, and there is a really huge aftermarket for them with upgrade parts, better triggers, stocks, barrels, and you name it.  The 10 shot rotary magazine is flush fit, dead reliable, and I believe legal anywhere (though larger mags, folding stock kits etc may be prohibited).  It is NOT an assault rifle (though it can be made to look like one).

The .22 cartridge makes decent velocity with longer barrel lengths, so I prefer the 18.5" models over all the 16's. And really the Sporter model looks so much nicer than the Carbines (and has nicer wood).

Except for going to war (or serious self defense), if I could only have one rifle, this would be my choice:
https://ruger.com/products/1022Sporter/specSheets/1102.html



With a scope:


All the Sporter models.  https://ruger.com/products/1022Sporter/models.html

The aftermarket (both parts and complete rifles) is amazing.






Not a high capacity magazine.  Not even scary.  

[Savago]

@all: thanks for all the good advice!
 

[0leman]

After hunting in a variety of different vegetation types, I ended up with a Marlin 30/30 lever action for heavy timber/bush country and a Ruger M77 in 7mm mag for the rest.    Both guns did what I needed, shot deer with lever action at 20-50 yards and elk/antelope at 300-400 yards with the Ruger.  even got a few coyotes with the Ruger when their hides were worth going after.

That being said, I started out with a bolt action 22 with a 2 power scope for my first rifle. Bought it used and could shot 1 minute groups at 100 yards off sand bags.   Shot a lot of rounds thru it.  Both at paper targets, pop cans, and small critters.  Got where I could hit most ever thing that I shot at.

As far a the Duke and the twirling of the Winchester, would think that would cause lot of stress on the lever action of the rifle.   Just wondering.

[gordonv]

The lever and the bolt are such totally different beasts, really need to analyze deeper into what/why you want/need them...

<snip>

If it's JUST a range toy, to learn on, strongly consider going with a .22, much cheaper to shoot, virtually no recoil, and the skills you learn there will later transfer to something else once you wanna get your "Big Boy" gun.

...and don't ignore the .22 for defensive purposes either,

Caliber may have nothing to do with it, if you're going hunting, how often will you pull the trigger for a kill, once.

Target shooting, get the 10/22 Jess showed. There are some real nice ones out there that are tack drivers. I was trying to buy the USA Olympic model, but couldn't get it across the border. Off the shelve with all the extra goodies.

https://images.app.goo.gl/9irFNnzSYLYXZQh99

I had my .22, .30 Carbine, 303 British since I was a 100# kid, and shot .308 in the Cadets to 400 yrds (not the 5.53mm).

In the end, something inexpensive to shoot, .22, to learn on.

Then what is the end result, what will you do with the rifle you want?

[lakehunter]

Seems everyone left out the pump action style, Browning, Remington and others offer them and this type offers no stigma of those bad old AR types. A pump action is well known for speed, durability and quick handling. The old stand by pump 12 gauge shotgun was very common in patrol cars. That led to Remington building a rifle on the 870 shotgun pump action frame, the 7615, a 556/.223 chambered rifle. Can use very common and affordable ammunition with many varieties available for target or hunting uses. Interestingly this rifle comes with a friendly 10 round mag but can accept any AR style mag from 5 rounds to a 60 or 100 round drum. Blast'em off fast as you can pump or just one at a time. A good 75 grain hollow point boat tail will ring steel at 300 yards all day long. Good bang for the buck, great accuracy, light weight, and offers a non-intimidating standard rifle look.



I have enjoyed mine a lot and just wanted to offer up a seldom mentioned option, good luck and happy hunting !

[The emperor has no clothes]

Seems everyone left out the pump action style, Browning, Remington and others offer them and this type offers no stigma of those bad old AR types. A pump action is well known for speed, durability and quick handling. The old stand by pump 12 gauge shotgun was very common in patrol cars. That led to Remington building a rifle on the 870 shotgun pump action frame, the 7615, a 556/.223 chambered rifle. Can use very common and affordable ammunition with many varieties available for target or hunting uses. Interestingly this rifle comes with a friendly 10 round mag but can accept any AR style mag from 5 rounds to a 60 or 100 round drum. Blast'em off fast as you can pump or just one at a time. A good 75 grain hollow point boat tail will ring steel at 300 yards all day long. Good bang for the buck, great accuracy, light weight, and offers a non-intimidating standard rifle look.



I have enjoyed mine a lot and just wanted to offer up a seldom mentioned option, good luck and happy hunting !

I've owned a Remington 7600 pump in the .270 Winchester for close to 50 years. Great gun !

[Jess from VA]

If you want something larger than .22 (a centerfire), but still reasonable cost ammo to shoot (and reasonable recoil), and fully CA compliant, take a look at the Mossberg MVP Predator rifle in .223.  A bolt rifle that takes (any) AR magazines, but comes with a (CA happy) 10 rd mag(s).  18.5" bbl, nice laminate stock and 7lbs.  It'll need a scope.

https://www.mossberg.com/product/mvp-predator-rifle-27724/







You can get a 1000 rds of 55 gr ball .223 for around $300 all over. (cheaper with steel cases)
https://www.laxammo.com/rifle/223-ammo/federal-223-rem-55-gr-fmj-1000-rds-ae223bk-detail
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/223-remington/-rifle-55grains-?nr=1000

[F6Dave]

Why not consider an AR-15, even the Cali-fornicated version?  Lightweight.  Inexpensive ammo.  Mild recoil.  And if a dem gets elected for prez next year, it could also be your last rifle.

[Savago]

Doing some research and found about the Ruger Precision rimfire:
https://ruger.com/products/precisionRimfire/models.html

This video review is also pretty cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpvT4Yzi8Fs

It seems like a good practice rifle before stepping up to its bigger brother https://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/specSheets/18028.html

I'm planning to visit the gun shop this week to have a look on it.
 

[Savago]

Why not consider an AR-15, even the Cali-fornicated version?  Lightweight.  Inexpensive ammo.  Mild recoil.  And if a dem gets elected for prez next year, it could also be your last rifle.

My 2 personal reasons are:
a) I shot with a AR-15 style rifle during the rifle's training and even though it seems like a fun rifle, I just felt that bolt and lever action worked better in my hands (I known, quite subjective!).
b) In CA, any semi-auto rifle faces so many restrictions that it will end up as a neutered rifle.
:-(

[Serk]

In CA, any semi-auto rifle faces so many restrictions that it will end up as a neutered rifle.
:-(

[Savago]

@Serk: Indeed.

The whole gun law mess in California makes me wanna move to a free State.
 

[Savago]

Since we are talking about rifles, found this funny info chart:

[Serk]

@Serk: Indeed.

The whole gun law mess in California makes me wanna move to a free State.
 

All those of us in free states ask is please, PLEASE, if you move to one of the remaining bastions of freedom, don't vote for the same people and policies that made you leave your previous home in the first place...

[Savago]

Doing this will get you kicked out of any range in America.  (so don't do it, especially with a loaded gun)  

@Jess: not planning to pull a John Wayne in the range!
 

[F6Dave]

@Serk: Indeed.

The whole gun law mess in California makes me wanna move to a free State.
 

All those of us in free states ask is please, PLEASE, if you move to one of the remaining bastions of freedom, don't vote for the same people and policies that made you leave your previous home in the first place...

Amen.  That happened in Colorado, and I fear the state is past the point of no return.

[MarkT]

I have a .22 single shot bolt Remington target rifle from my dad.  Probably my first gun.  I put a 4X cheapo .22 scope on it decades ago, that the crosshairs fell out of it.  I took it apart and replaced the crosshairs with human hairs glued in.  You might be surprised how big they look as crosshairs!  Anywho, zeroed it in and to this day that rifle will hit a squirrel in the eye at 30yds with a proper rest.  Should just replace the scope but I like the character of my fix!

Years ago my first deer rifle for WI woods was the Ruger .44mag carbine the 10/22 was later modeled after .  Looks just like it.  Put a 1.5X Weaver scope on it.  Dead accurate out to 100yds or so.  Hits like a freight train - gets the 240HP up to around 1800fps.  Knocks a whitetail down RIGHT NOW with good placement. Great brush gun.  Worth something as they have been out of production for some time. Was a good companion to my Ruger Super Blackhawk .44mag - accurized by the local gunsmithing school.  I handload for both.  Also picked up a Ruger 10/.22 some time ago.  Improved the trigger with a Volquartsen kit.  Put a scope on it, it's almost as accurate as the Remington.

Picked up a Henry in .45-70 a few years ago.  Put a Lyman tang peep sight right behind the hammer, ala Matthew Quigley's .45-110-500.  Had to modifiy it myself as they weren't making them for that rifle.  It's OK, I used to be an "armorer" (related civilian job to Weapons Mechanic 46250 per the USAF).  Kicks a LOT with that load in such a lightweight lever gun - not for starters.  Has a LOT of downrange energy with that load. Pretty much limited to 200yds or less with it's rainbow trajectory unless you are a real ballistics expert - was the "long range" buffalo rifle of it's day - 1873. 325gr Hornady LeveRevolution moves out over 2000fps.

I'd suggest, after you start out with a .22 - like a Savage or Ruger or others pointed out here - your GP rifle for big game should be a Remington 700 or a Ruger 77 or a good Savage model (I'm not real up to speed on their models but Savage makes quality stuff at good prices) in .30-06 or .270win.  Preferably not a synthetic stock so you can float the barrel - Boyd's makes laminated wood stocks very good quality for the money and they won't flex .  Either caliber can be loaded for every big game on the continent and you can find ammo everywhere in lots of those loads - even hardware stores.  Assuming you don't load yourself.  I use a .300win mag caliber now in an accurized Weatherby with a Leupold VX-3I 3.5-10X50mm, 20mil 1 piece bridge mount, Timney trigger, AI magazine mod, Boyd's laminated stock, Decelerator butt pad, Harris bipod for long range work.  Not a starter rifle either, kicks a lot but will take anything on the continent as well as dangerous African game.  (No, not going there, I just got a great buy on the rifle from a local cop - was almost brand new, with one box of shells through it, owned by his deceased father who never used it due to it's kick I think.  Yeah I believed him, LOOKED brand new.)  Hits like a howitzer.



Almost blew the head OFF a whitetail doe last season with a neck shot.  

[Savago]

@MarkT: awesome reply, I'm taking notes.
:-)

I'm planning in a couple months to do a hunting course and getting a hunter's license.