Coronavirus $hit be getting real

[markymark640]

more evidence that the swab test is a rouse to fool the populace about increased cases of c19.  the test just states there is a virus and cannot tell if it c19 or some other one.  they are using to add to the UN Globalist and national DNA database.

It has been estimated that there are over 380 trillion viruses inhabiting us, a community collectively known as the human virome. But these viruses are not the dangerous ones you commonly hear about, like those that cause the flu or the common cold,
https://www.inverse.com/article/49747-what-is-the-human-virome

I think I understand your point in this and previous posting in this thread.

But I was wondering, even if you disregard the testing numbers, how do you account for the increased numbers being reported in NUMEROUS hospitals in the Sun Belt states, the critical shortage being reported in available ICU beds, max capacity of ICU beds at some hospitals and the reported deaths starting to rise in the last week or so.

And these are not political reports or MSM blowing smoke as typical, these are video taped reports coming from Doctors, Nurses and Hospital Administrative Staff.

And understand, I'm not trying to discredit what you posted, and I do agree that the reported testing numbers ALONE may not be prudent to use, but I was wondering about your position that they are being used to "fool the populace about increased cases of c19"

From what I see and hear, there absolutely is a significant increase in new cases.

https://canadafreepress.com/article/the-cdc-confesses-to-lying-about-covid-19-death-numbers

COVID-19 Statistics

There are two fundamental points often ignored when referring to “the death toll from COVID-19.”

    There is no evidence or proof offered by any scientist, pathologist, or virologist that confirms COVID-19 as the “cause” of death in the certification process.
    An expanded definition of a “COVID-19 death” was enacted by the CDC on March 24th, to include probable cases. This conflates and clusters test results creating a source of both under and overestimation. “COVID-19 deaths are identified using a new ICD-10 code. When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death or when it is listed as a ‘probable’ or ‘presumed’ cause, it is coded as UO7.1 This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation.” [emphasis added] 

All deaths of patients with a linkage to COVID-19 are now classified as “COVID-19 deaths regardless of cause or underlying health issues that could have contributed to loss of life.” - Dr. Deborah Birx

Today, deaths from coronary disease, diabetes, morbid obesity, or pneumonia may be linked or connected to a COVID-19 positive test result. The operative words “linked” or “connected” provide little explanation of how they’re related or indicate what the presumed link entails. As the Wall Street Journal noted, “tabulating deaths is tricky. Some states count probable deaths for cases where there weren’t test results available, but where the deceased had symptoms of the disease.”
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/05/27/rethinking-covid-19-mortality-statistics-14811

While I read the response I believe was for my post, I believe you kind of went of topic and deflected to some information about the death numbers.

I hoping you would speak to your initial statement that the testing is being used to  "fool the populace about increased cases of c19", and how it appears you are not acknowledging the increased numbers being reported in NUMEROUS hospitals in the Sun Belt states, the critical shortage being reported in available ICU beds, max capacity of ICU beds at some hospitals and the reported deaths starting to rise in the last week or so.

These reports and patients in the hospitals have nothing to do with "testing" as I see it and I was hoping you would share your thoughts on how you account for that

[carolinarider09]

From the website below, Updated July 1, 2020, Data is from Florida.

On Tuesday, the state’s COVID-19 dashboard reported there have been nearly 2 million “total people tested.”

But that doesn’t mean that nearly 2 million unique individuals have taken a COVID-19 test in Florida. The state has acknowledged that retests are counted in the total test count.

If a patient tests positive for COVID-19 the Florida Department of Health recommends the patient goes into a two-week isolation period. Once the 14 days are up, the patient is likely to take a COVID-19 test. A day later the patient may take another test for the virus to make sure they are negative.

One person could potentially take three tests in less than three weeks. Some, where there was a second positive test, may take even more before they are deemed clear to go back to work.

News4Jax sister station WKMG in Orlando spoke with Dr. Raul Pino with the Department of Health in Orange County who confirmed re-tests are included in the total testing numbers, so when you see 2 million tests, that does not mean 2 million people have been tested.

Gov. Ron DeSantis also said during a press conference that the total number of tests is reflected in the dashboard display.

“It’s not unique individuals, it’s total test,” he said.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/06/30/trust-index-just-how-many-people-has-florida-tested-for-covid-19/

[markymark640]

Hey guys, poke all the holes you want in the numbers. I'm sure they are somewhat flawed. No argument here.

That still doesn't account for the soaring increase in the number of people being hospitalized in the SunBelt states. Reports coming from Doctor, Nurses, Hospital Administrators. Reports ( from the hospitals ) that they have limited number of beds available. Lack if ICU beds, and the number of deaths starting to rise.

Forget the tests. From everything I've read and seen ( video of these nurse and doctors ) there is a huge increase of infections in the sub belt states.

No matter how flawed the test numbers might be, I think the rest clearly shows there is a huge increase in new cases in some areas of the US, primarily in the Sun Belt states.

[Valkorado]

All fake, markymark.   

[carolinarider09]

Texas Medical Center data as of July 10, 2020

TMC Bed Status July 10, 2020



TMC Early Warning Process and Status



https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-capacity-planning-protocol/

[98valk]

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/texas-government-counting-every-covid-positive-hospital-case

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2020/05/03/project-veritas-sounds-the-alarm-on-deaths-falsely-attributed-to-the-wuhan-coronavirus-n2568099

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUmJxoNdRik&feature=youtu.be

Elon Musk: false positive tests inflate COVID numbers

[markymark640]

Nearly 84% of Florida's ICU beds are filled amid rising coronavirus cases
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-coronavirus-icu-beds-84-percent-full/

CDC update, number of COVID19 Texas Hospital beds with COVID Patients 10,964

CDC update, number of COVID19 Florida Hospital beds with COVID Patients 9,979

About 76 percent of the state’s hospital beds and about 79 percent of adult intensive-care unit beds were occupied Friday as Florida faces a continuing surge in COVID-19 cases, according to information posted online by the state Agency for Health Care Administration.
https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/post/florida-hospital-bed-availability-varies-county

Miami-Dade ICU Hospital Beds Hit 90% Capacity, as Daily COVID Case Positivity Reaches 33%
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/miami-dade-icu-hospital-beds-hit-90-capacity-as-daily-covid-case-positivity-reaches-33/2260114/


South Florida ICUs running out of beds as COVID-19 fills hospitals
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-icus-20200707-eq4uekhpsrd7dmb6f6tj2na73y-story.html



Hospital beds reaching high capacity in South Carolina
https://www.google.com/search?ei=LHAKX8f6EIv4tAWU047oBQ&q=South+Carolina+CIVID+hospital+beds+ICU&oq=South+Carolina+CIVID+hospital+beds+ICU&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIECCEQClCsqgFYvcABYO7LAWgAcAB4AIABaIgB2wSSAQM2LjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjHwP6w0MbqAhULPK0KHZSpA10Q4dUDCAw&uact=5

ICU bed use, COVID-19 hospitalizations reach new highs in Alabama
https://www.alreporter.com/2020/06/16/alabama-sees-record-low-available-icu-beds-on-tuesday-record-high-hospitalizations/

Available Alabama ICU beds at all-time low as COVID-19 hospitalizations spike
https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/2020/07/08/alabama-hospital-icu-capacity-bottoms-out-hospitalization-rise/5400613002/

[carolinarider09]

Hospitals are in many ways like hotels and the hotel industry has studied the effect of occupancy on profitability pretty thoroughly. It turns out that for medium price range hotels, 75% occupancy is the most profitable rate whereas for high-end hotels, 85% occupancy is peak profitability. Many hospital executives talk about 85% being the ideal occupancy rate for a hospital and I have to admit, that is sort of the number I have in mind when I look at our morning census. But is 85% really ideal? I would argue… no.

If the occupancy is too low, then you have too many staff sitting around without work to do and you will lose money. If the occupancy is too high, then a couple of nurse call-offs means excessive work for the other nurses and can hurt morale. Furthermore, if you are completely full, you have to turn away patients and in the long-run that can harm both reputation and future referrals. So, on the surface, the 85% number seems like a good compromise with enough capacity to manage an unexpected surge in admissions but no so low that you are sending nurses home

So, what is the best occupancy rate?

The answer is… it depends. I like having a midnight census of about 85% on Monday through Wednesday. That 15% buffer allows us to overlap that day’s admissions with that day’s discharges in the afternoons and also give us rooms to put the new admission in while we are cleaning the recently vacated rooms. Thursdays and Fridays, I like a midnight census of 80%. On Friday, Saturday and Sunday, 75% is acceptable because our surgical floors are starting to empty out and we reduce scheduled nursing staff accordingly.

The bottom line is that hospital occupancy rates are like most things in life. More is better but only up to a point. Beyond that, more can be too much.

https://hospitalmedicaldirector.com/what-is-the-ideal-hospital-occupancy-rate/

[Valkorado]

The bottom line is that hospital occupancy rates are like most things in life. More is better but only up to a point. Beyond that, more can be too much.

Very insightful, I couldn't agree more.  

Seems that at some Texas and Florida hospitals, doctors and nurses are thinking they're at that point and a little less would be a lot better right now.  All those wonderful "inflated numbers" profits BE cursed!

See, a big difference between hospitals and hotels is when we're staying at the ol' Best Western it's usually by choice, and on our schedule.  No Vacancy signs are considerably less stressful, especially if you already made a reservation!  

[Jersey mike]

Fight fire with fire. Surrender?  See Is Herd Immunity a Pipe Dream? article posted above.

I don’t understand your surrender comment.

Let me explain it.

Experts smarter than you and I tend to agree that combating coronavirus is a multifaceted battle.  

The general consensus is:

- Practice social distancing (not only the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions)
- Wear masks in public, especially in situations where distancing is not possible (again not only the sick and elderly)
- practice good hygiene including hand washing, avoiding touching face and regularly sanitizing shared surfaces.
- Test, test, test!
- Initiate contract tracing and quarantine if necessary.

These are called mitigations.  President Trump himself has reminded us, on many occasions, that we are at war with an invisible enemy.  In order to win a war tactics must be agreed upon, troops must be on the same page, weapons must be utilized and strategy must be adhered to -- even if some minor adjustments to our everyday way of life are temporarily called for.  Some nuisances.

Now I don't give a hoot if you disagree with every mitigation mentioned above for whatever reason.  I could personally care less if you mask up or refuse to wear 'em at all.  I don't care if you cover sneezes and coughs or let them blow free.  I don't wonder or worry about how many folks wash their hands regularly, or if they enthusiastically hug every stranger they meet.  I am aware that many will, "do whatever they want, thank you very much".  I'm not going judge that, this is 'merica, man!  Still...

Mitigations are how we will slow the spread of this enemy.   Mitigations are how we can return to a healthy and robust economy more quickly.  Mitigations (and eventually one or more vaccines) are the weapons we use to win this war.  

You wrote, "Let the numbers spike and let the virus run it’s course through society".  

You noted that after reading the herd immunity article you have come to the conclusion that lockdowns are, "pointless".  You may be right there.  I am discussing voluntary mitigations, not draconian mandated lockdowns!  

Like I said do whatever you want but I'll side with the experts when they say mitigations slow the spread, which is currently rampant in many states.  They note that infections lead to community spread.  Community spread, even if currently primarily among young adults, leads to sometimes overwhelming hospitalizations.  Hospitalizations sometimes lead to deaths.  These always lag behind the other in that order, often by weeks.  Experts also emphasize that healthy young adults don't keep the virus to themselves.  They share with the vulnerable.

I say, mitigate, don't mandate!  A national pursuit of herd immunity would be a long, tough and perhaps unachievable  row to hoe.  Maybe not for you personally, but for so many in our society.  The more folks that mitigate, the less chances of mandates!

To disregard mitigation altogether as a nation is to surrender as a nation.





EDIT:

Give a little whistle...

Wow, I get nothing but Jiminy Cricket on that one.  In-freaking-credible.

As far as social distancing goes, I don’t even know what that means anymore and frankly I don’t care. Watching the double standards on the news is laughable. Keeping away from the elderly is probably a good thing though.

Wearing a mask in public, I’m not interested. I only do so when I need to walk into a store.

Washing hands and good hygiene...gee there’s a topic unto itself. I wash my hands after each use of the bathroom (and sometimes before if my hands are greasy or dirty), wash my hands when they are dirty and before eating, bathe once a day, brush my teeth and mouthwash too. Anything more than that is not in my wheelhouse.

Test test test...who who who? They not testing me. Even if I get sick I’m not going for a random test.

Contact tracing....nope not doing it.  Quarantine is for sick people.


These mitigation practices really didn’t work though. People were locked away for the most part and when reopenings happened we had some spikes. It just shows the virus is still here and telling people stay home, wear a mask or whatever else doesn’t work.

We’ve had 134,580 deaths in this country out of 325,000,000. It’s a lot but just abut full seating capacity (162,000) of Bristol Motor Speedway and half the 235,000 seating capacity of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to put things in perspective.

You say the spread in many states is “rampant” that’s quite an adjective or even adverb to use. I don’t believe these spikes are going unchecked.

You say “ To disregard mitigation altogether as a nation is to surrender as a nation.”  I believe adherence to one guideline alone is blind faith. There are too many conflicting reports to say one way and only one way is the right way.

Open the country let the people, each individual decide what is best for them.

Thanks,for the cricket comment too, appreciate it. It’s not like I wasn’t busy or anything.

[Valkorado]

Gotcha.  

Mitigations don't work?  They were working until parts of the nation opened up early before meeting the reopening guidelines suggested by the CDC and approved by the Trump administration.  Remember the three stage plan?  Neither do many governors.  They saw numbers dropping in NY and declared a national victory by reopening their states.

Yes, adherence to one guideline alone would be "blind faith".   This is why I noted most experts agree battling coronavirus requires a multifaceted approach.

As I the am the Wizard of Oz, I will open up the country up for you right away.  

[RP#62]

I saw something on local news that the ICU fill rate was 85%, but a big chunk of that was from the bow wave of surgeries from all the stuff that got put off when everything was closed down.

-RP

[Valkorado]

I saw something on local news that the ICU fill rate was 85%, but a big chunk of that was from the bow wave of surgeries from all the stuff that got put off when everything was closed down.

-RP

That is feasible and very well could be a good percentage of it.   

Off to ride Cottonwood Pass!

[98valk]

has to be listen to.

http://www.catsimatidis.com/john-chachas-a-second-look-at-the-covid-19-numbers-what-is-the-truth/

[Jersey mike]

Gotcha.  

Mitigations don't work?  They were working until parts of the nation opened up early before meeting the reopening guidelines suggested by the CDC and approved by the Trump administration.  Remember the three stage plan?  Neither do many governors.  They saw numbers dropping in NY and declared a national victory by reopening their states.

Yes, adherence to one guideline alone would be "blind faith".   This is why I noted most experts agree battling coronavirus requires a multifaceted approach.

As I the am the Wizard of Oz, I will open up the country up for you right away.  

As I said the stay at home, stay closed mitigation did slow it down, it didn’t stop anything. There is no stopping it by hiding from it. It’s out there. Maybe if we hadn’t hid from it and continued on with life as best possible our ability to fight this naturally could have been increased but instead we decided to follow along what TV was showing how China was doing things. The initial “crap down for 2 weeks” was extended and extended over and over. Meanwhile Sweden took a different course of action and has have a slightly higher mortality rate and an economy that didn’t get crushed.

Even if by not closing our mortality rate was 100% or 200% higher we still would not be at 1% mortality.

NY is not “open”. NJ is not “open”. Businesses are still closed and people are still not working.

[98valk]

same type of people that have died are the same that die from the seasonal flu virus. nothing has changed except the political control factor to destroy a country. This I have been posting since march.

in NJ and NY more than half of the deaths have been in nursing homes where both governors sent already sick people with c19 to the homes. basically both governors are murderers.

also there is much documented information that the authorities have been faking the death numbers listing all deaths as caused by c19. I've posted many reports proving this.  this is just another coup attempt by the UN globalist left which most politicians are part of.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-07/comparing-coronavirus-deaths-by-age-with-flu-driving-fatalities

Covid-19 is hard on the elderly, with those 65 and older accounting for 80% of the U.S. deaths from the disease

[Jersey mike]

same type of people that have died are the same that die from the seasonal flu virus. nothing has changed except the political control factor to destroy a country. This I have been posting since march.

in NJ and NY more than half of the deaths have been in nursing homes where both governors sent already sick people with c19 to the homes. basically both governors are murderers.

also there is much documented information that the authorities have been faking the death numbers listing all deaths as caused by c19. I've posted many reports proving this.  this is just another coup attempt by the UN globalist left which most politicians are part of.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-07/comparing-coronavirus-deaths-by-age-with-flu-driving-fatalities

Covid-19 is hard on the elderly, with those 65 and older accounting for 80% of the U.S. deaths from the disease

I’ve read most of your stuff and I think we have a lot of common ground on this issue. The virus thing has become second thought to me the last month or so, so I just stopped adding to threads and dealing with King Murphy and his disastrous attempt to do whatever in N.J.

[markymark640]

Gotcha.  

Mitigations don't work?  They were working until parts of the nation opened up early before meeting the reopening guidelines suggested by the CDC and approved by the Trump administration.  Remember the three stage plan?  Neither do many governors.  They saw numbers dropping in NY and declared a national victory by reopening their states.

Yes, adherence to one guideline alone would be "blind faith".   This is why I noted most experts agree battling coronavirus requires a multifaceted approach.

As I the am the Wizard of Oz, I will open up the country up for you right away.  

tou·ché Valkorado

Surgeon General Jerome Adams (Republican) said Sunday that the US could turn around novel coronavirus infections in two to three weeks if "everyone does their part."
Business Insider

Adams appeared Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation," two days after the US recorded its highest ever number of daily COVID-19 infections.

"Just as we've seen cases skyrocket, we can turn this thing around in two to three weeks if we can get a critical mass of people wearing face coverings, practicing at least six feet of social distancing, doing the things that we know are effective," Adams said.


Surgeon general says administration "trying to correct" earlier guidance against wearing masks
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-surgeon-general-jerome-adams-wearing-masks-face-the-nation/

Trump wears face mask in public for first time during coronavirus pandemic
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-wears-face-mask-in-public-first-time-coronavirus

And for those of you that have so pointedly stated that cases weren't soaring ( you know who you are), I would ask if the Republican Surgeon General's statement today that cases have skyrocketed makes any difference to you ? and if you were now willing to accept the fact that the number of new infections is soaring ?

[Jersey mike]

Gotcha.  

Mitigations don't work?  They were working until parts of the nation opened up early before meeting the reopening guidelines suggested by the CDC and approved by the Trump administration.  Remember the three stage plan?  Neither do many governors.  They saw numbers dropping in NY and declared a national victory by reopening their states.

Yes, adherence to one guideline alone would be "blind faith".   This is why I noted most experts agree battling coronavirus requires a multifaceted approach.

As I the am the Wizard of Oz, I will open up the country up for you right away.  

tou·ché Valkorado

Surgeon General Jerome Adams (Republican) said Sunday that the US could turn around novel coronavirus infections in two to three weeks if "everyone does their part."
Business Insider

Adams appeared Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation," two days after the US recorded its highest ever number of daily COVID-19 infections.

"Just as we've seen cases skyrocket, we can turn this thing around in two to three weeks if we can get a critical mass of people wearing face coverings, practicing at least six feet of social distancing, doing the things that we know are effective," Adams said.


Surgeon general says administration "trying to correct" earlier guidance against wearing masks
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-surgeon-general-jerome-adams-wearing-masks-face-the-nation/

Trump wears face mask in public for first time during coronavirus pandemic
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-wears-face-mask-in-public-first-time-coronavirus

And for those of you that have so pointedly stated that cases weren't soaring ( you know who you are), I would ask if the Republican Surgeon General's statement today that cases have skyrocketed makes any difference to you ? and if you were now willing to accept the fact that the number of new infections is soaring ?

2 peas in a pod.

These doctors have gone every which way to come up with a viable solution, find a way to contain a bug. The more they say this or that makes them look more like they’re not sure of anything except to keep being reactionary.

[Valkorado]

2 peas in a pod.

You and 98?  

Cut the personal b.s. Jersey.  I have no affiliation with anybody.  I think for myself and live as I choose.

Another good ride today!

[Robert]

https://www.aier.org/article/what-economists-can-teach-epidemiologists/
What Economists Can Teach Epidemiologists

As data accrues on both a national and state-by-state basis, the parameters of COVID-19’s lethality is firming up. Two new papers from Dr. John Ioannidis point to the growing shortfall between apocalyptic pandemic predictions and the vastly more destructive policies implemented in observance of them.

The first, entitled “Population-level COVID-19 mortality risk for non-elderly individuals overall and for non-elderly individuals without underlying diseases in pandemic epicenters” offers more evidence supporting the assertion that the government reaction to the virus has been vastly overwrought.

Using data from 11 European countries, 12 US states, and Canada, Ioannidis and his team show that the infection rate is much higher than previously thought, which suggests that both the incidence of asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases is higher than thought, and the fatality rate much lower than previously estimated.


https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/more-media-hyped-hysteria-fearmongering-nbc-doctor-who-battled-covid-admits-never-had-virus
More Media-Hyped Hysteria? Fearmongering NBC Doctor Who 'Battled COVID' Admits Never Had Virus

Which is why we weren't the least bit surprised to read that NBC News spent weeks documenting the coronavirus "journey" of one of its contributors with Covid-19 - despite the fact that he never tested positive for the virus!

[Jersey mike]

2 peas in a pod.

You and 98?  

Cut the personal b.s. Jersey.  I have no affiliation with anybody.  I think for myself and live as I choose.

Another good ride today!

Maybe we are similar, at least we can look beyond the narrative that the so called “smarter than me” (according to you) scientists have decided to run with. Their 2 week shut down to give hospitals a chance to catch up lead to 30 days. That 30 days led to another 30 days which led to another 30 days.

If scientists and doctors could have their way all the time, this would be a simple thing to deal with. When a person is sick, it’s easy for a doctor to say “stay home, get some rest” but in reality that patient needs to fulfill his responsibilities...work, rent, kids, billls, customers, employees so on and so forth.

Well the country is the patient and the doctors advice has not rendered results.

As I said yesterday, we aren’t even close to a 1% mortality rate in the nation. 3,225,000 people would need to die from this for us to be at 1%. So far we’ve lost 135,089. That a lot but not even in the ballpark of scary numbers or,”running rampant “ as you called it. We would need 23 times our current death total to equal 1% of our country’s population.

I have a lot of respect for the medical community, but doctors are not always right..I’ve experienced it first hand on several occasions. Those 2 doctors from California who spoke out against the lockdown were silenced. Many who had alternate views were called quacks, ridiculous and pretty much ridiculed in the media and social media.

If you want to digest what’s being spoon fed to you that’s your prerogative, I’m choosing to look beyond their menu which has changed several times from this to that...what’s today’s or this weeks Special.

If you feel my comment of “2 peas in a pod” was “personal”...wow, I didn’t intend to hurt your feelings.

BTW, good looking photo.

[Valkorado]

No hurt feelings Mike, I wouldn't be here if my skin wasn't thick.  I'm sorry you felt insulted by me mentioning there are, "experts smarter than you and I".

I just think you're preaching to the choir.  If you haven't noticed, I do not believe mandated lockdown is the way to go.  I have stated this on many occasions.

Now Trump's three stage reopeneing  plan, on the other hand, was a good idea IMO.  Unfortunately good plans are worthless unless they are implemented...  

Seems some pop a gasket and blow steam when I mention any aspect of COVID that is less than sunshine and rainbows.    

They say "open up society".  Well, that's beyond my ability.  And, when I look at the science behind it I'm not sure I would right now if I could.  

Maybe we disagree but I think this pandemic is sh!tty.  I think how it has sickened and killed folks is shitty.  How it has devastated the economy.  How it has caused political division and rage.  How it has stressed nursing homes and hospitals.  It's a sh!t virus.  

You say let 'er rip.  We are estimated at <10% exposure in the United States.  Herd immunity takes an estimated 70-90%. Throwing mitigations out and striving for herd immunity alone will result in a heckuva lot more dead folks.

Thanks for the photo comment.  I'm very lucky to live where I do (lucky for about half the year and shivering the other half), and I ride nearly every day in the summer.   I'm burning daylight (and summer)!  I hate winter almost as much as I hate COVID.

I toss out this article not so much for the "hard science" (?) behind it but for the sheer humor of it.  Heads will explode!   

Compliance with social distancing during early stages linked to working memory, study finds

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-compliance-social-distancing-linked-working-memory

[98valk]

I'll just follow the advice of doctors and scientists that actually have an education and experience that puts them in a position where their advice just might be a little bit more on point. And if their advice changes as they learn more, I'll consider it and make a decision on how I want to proceed.

just those doctors because they are infallible and dept heads don't have other agendas to make big money like fauci did with his HIV scare which got him millions upon millions of tax payers dollars for his dept which put him right up the career path.  he said he would have a vaccine for HIV just give him money, still no vaccine.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/09/20/224507654/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals

https://thepatriotdaily.com/national/collusion-dr-fauci-and-george-soros-have-a-long-history-conservative-doctor-is-raising-the-alarm/


Fauci’s prediction wasn’t conjured from the alignment of the stars and planets, or a passage lifted out of the Bible. No. He didn’t develop any such gift. Instead, he arrived at his foresight by steering the financing of zoonotic viruses “gain-of-function” research. In 2018, he joined the World Health Organization’s (WHO) new unit, Global Preparedness Monitoring Board (GPMB) to be hands-on with pandemic planning, a full year after his “prophecy.” He likely advised or took part in the development of the World Bank’s first-ever “pandemic bond” the same year. Moreover, Fauci also helped the GPMB write its first annual report that pronounced the drills, simulation, and release of at least one “lethal respiratory pathogen.”
Stacking the Deck on Coronavirus Prediction

Unlike Nostradamus, it appears Fauci helped initiate the release of the novel coronavirus, unleashing pandemic paranoia and now, fanning new fears about the coming “second wave,” while insisting that only a COVID vaccine will allow society to “return to normal.” He did everything he could to kick the inexpensive hydroxychloroquine to the curb while promoting the ultra-expensive Remdesivir as a temporary fix until a vaccine becomes available. Fauci further spent a lot of political capital contradicting President Trump—and himself—nearly every day over several weeks.

And the NIAID director still presents himself as the lone go-to source for trusted information on the virus. Right.

Dr. Fauci’s recent Congressional testimony on the coronavirus was a master class in how to provide politicians and mainstream media with fodder they wanted to hear. He deftly avoided giving any firm answers on titers, how long they might last, “neutralizing antibodies,” and other sleights of the tongue.
Fauci be unfamiliar with SARS-CoV-2?

How is that possible? For a half-century, his career focused on infectious diseases and the pursuit of vaccines to prevent them. More specifically, why doesn’t Fauci know more – a lot more – about this particular outbreak?

    He predicted it.
    He funded research into Bat-SARs viruses.
    He was involved in the 2003 SARS outbreak. Ditto the MERS epidemic in the Middle-East in 2012.
    He sat at the decision-making table on how to “plan and prepare” for coronavirus. He was there for the 2014 Ebola epidemic in West Africa.
    And in 2016, he famously shilled the Zika threat in a nauseating roadshow with then CDC Director Tom Frieden, of #MeToo fame, that ran from March to the November Sunday before the presidential election. That evening, 60 Minutes featured Fauci and Frieden pitching the fear of a Zika pandemic. At the same time, the CDC director showed the CBS journalists a tour of a pandemic preparedness warehouse in case the “big one” hit.

We’re six months into this pandemic and we have only witnessed gross incompetence by the CDC, corruption with coronavirus data and testing, and a deliberate effort to ban all natural remedies that would boost people’s immune systems, such as exercise, high dose vitamin C, oxygen therapies such as HBOT and ozone, vitamin D and sunshine and more. Isn’t that what the CDC, Fauci and Bill Gates have been trying to sell with vaccines?

Never doubt that Dr. Fauci comes as a politically machined scientist who protects U.S. health agencies over the well-being of the American people and even over the office of the president. Be not deceived: There is no one more informed about coronavirus and epidemics than Dr. Anthony Fauci. He even states as much with a smug know-it-all smirk.
https://vaxxter.com/dr-fauci-is-no-nostradamus-how-covid-19-ran-amok-under-his-watch/

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/03/anthony_fauci_the_nihs_face_of_the_coronavirus_is_a_deepstate_hillary_clintonloving_stooge.html#.XnYO5Z8RvOg.facebook

[Valkorado]

Wow, that Fauci guy is one evil bastid!

[98valk]

Wow, that Fauci guy is one evil bastid!

read his history. have u ever worked in a top federal dept? I have, and I saw the corruption of dept heads to get more funding. flat out lies. saw people who took six months to do a job working seven days a wk with OT on a job that for people who knew what they were doing would only take one month. those six month people got promoted because bosses thought they were really hard workers being there 7 days a wk. it was a real joke what went on. sat in a meeting one time with a high level from DC that controlled the money for ship repairs and didn't know what an aircraft carrier looked like. I could go on.

I posted before where social distancing came from a high school student project, which was pushed by two govt guys who now are big time dept heads because they brought research money in.
I believe fauci has never practiced medicine or seen a patient.
enjoy

[Jersey mike]

https://www.theblaze.com/news/admiral-brett-p-giroir-m-d-says-dr-anthony-fauci-is-not-100-percent-right-about-covid-19-doesnt-have-the-whole-national-interest-in-mind




“ Admiral Brett Giroir, M.D., says that Dr. Anthony Fauci — director for the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases — doesn't have all the facts right about the coronavirus pandemic and doesn't have the whole of the country's national interest in mind.”

“ "I want to just put this to rest," he said. "There is complete open, honest discussion within the task force. Task force meets three to four times a week. The vice president calls me regularly. Dr. Birx is not one to hold her tongue. Believe me, if there's a public health opinion that needs to be said, that needs to be it."

“He continued, "And I respect Dr. Fauci a lot, but Dr. Fauci is not 100 percent right, and he also doesn't necessarily — and he admits that — have the whole national interest in mind. He looks at it from a very narrow public health point of view. But let me just say, there is absolutely open discourse."

"I feel absolutely free saying anything to the vice president within those rooms," he added. "The vice president, I know, briefs the president on a daily basis. So nobody feels like anything is held back. We all take this as a serious crisis. It's got to be science driving the policy. And that's the way it is."



This is not the whole article posted here.

[Valkorado]

https://www.theblaze.com/news/admiral-brett-p-giroir-m-d-says-dr-anthony-fauci-is-not-100-percent-right-about-covid-19-doesnt-have-the-whole-national-interest-in-mind




“ Admiral Brett Giroir, M.D., says that Dr. Anthony Fauci — director for the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases — doesn't have all the facts right about the coronavirus pandemic and doesn't have the whole of the country's national interest in mind.”

“ "I want to just put this to rest," he said. "There is complete open, honest discussion within the task force. Task force meets three to four times a week. The vice president calls me regularly. Dr. Birx is not one to hold her tongue. Believe me, if there's a public health opinion that needs to be said, that needs to be it."

“He continued, "And I respect Dr. Fauci a lot, but Dr. Fauci is not 100 percent right, and he also doesn't necessarily — and he admits that — have the whole national interest in mind. He looks at it from a very narrow public health point of view. But let me just say, there is absolutely open discourse."

"I feel absolutely free saying anything to the vice president within those rooms," he added. "The vice president, I know, briefs the president on a daily basis. So nobody feels like anything is held back. We all take this as a serious crisis. It's got to be science driving the policy. And that's the way it is."



This is not the whole article posted here.

It's a novel virus.  No scientists anywhere in the world have been 100% right.

So Dr. Birx it is (until they start persecuting her).

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/506272-dr-birx-attributes-coronavirus-spikes-to-states-that-stepped-on-the

https://www.instyle.com/news/deborah-birx-white-house-coronavirus-coordinator-interview

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/07/08/deborah-birx-masks-fashion-nr-vpx.cnn

Trumps-top-covid-adviser-dr-birx-deaths-will-soon-start-to-rise

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-top-covid-adviser-dr-birx-deaths-will-soon-start-to-rise

[Robert]

They say "open up society".  Well, that's beyond my ability.  And, when I look at the science behind it I'm not sure I would right now if I could.  

Maybe we disagree but I think this pandemic is sh!tty.  I think how it has sickened and killed folks is shitty.  How it has devastated the economy.  How it has caused political division and rage.  How it has stressed nursing homes and hospitals.  It's a sh!t virus.  [img width=140

http://This virus is NOT responsible for the gross over response or the devastation on the economy, the closing down of most governmental agencies, the closing businesses or the loss of jobs.

That is the work of people whose intentions are very much in question. Even with the facts in they still are calling for draconian measures that have not proven to work, much less proven to be helpful or needed.

The real question is, if we as the public already see this and the futility and devastation for men's decisions why are not our governmental leaders not seeing this, especially the Democratic party ones.

IE masks are pretty much useless but we still have them, why?

If you argue that people don't know how to face the freedom of decisions and take responsibility for life then its about time they learned. These very ones look to government to feed, clothe, and tell them what is safe and what is not, its about time that we get weened off the notion that government is any better than each one of us, to decide our future or fate.

[Valkorado]

This virus is NOT responsible for the gross over response or the devastation on the economy, the closing down of most governmental agencies, the closing businesses or the loss of jobs.

That is the work of people whose intentions are very much in question. Even with the facts in they still are calling for draconian measures that have not proven to work, much less proven to be helpful or needed.

I say it was.  They wouldn't and couldn't have closed down anything had the novel COVID virus not been spreading around. Countries getting infections before us were locking down left and right.  Scientists and health officials around the globe were scrambling to get a grip on the spread.  Nobody knew what was coming next.

Was the initial lockdown right or wrong?  Our President thinks it was the right thing to do.  Our scientists think it was the right thing to do.  I think it probably was too but just don't know, I'm merely a peasant.  

You say masks are useless.  I'm glad you've figured it all out.

If you're insinuating that I think people don't, "know how to face the freedom of decisions" you're barking up the wrong tree.  I've said I am not in favor of mandated anything.  

You go be free.  I'll do the same.

[Robert]

I say it was.  They wouldn't and couldn't have closed down anything had the novel COVID virus not been spreading around.

You go be free.  I'll do the same.

People the governments made the CHOICE to close it down, NOT THE VIRUS, The response CHOICE could have been much different, IF they the government had decided another approach, or even tempered their approach, after some facts were in. 

There was NOT one correct response, there were facts after awhile neither were exercised or taken, WHY?

Hindsight is always 20/20 but most already knew the facts, so the government had to know them also.

People with the herd mentality will follow the government blindly egged on by those with another agenda.

I am NOT referring to you either.

I wonder if you could give any indication on both sides of the effectiveness of masks.

[Valkorado]

I say it was.  They wouldn't and couldn't have closed down anything had the novel COVID virus not been spreading around.

You go be free.  I'll do the same.

They made the CHOICE to close it down, NOT THE VIRUS, The response CHOICE could have been much different, IF they the government had decided another approach, or even tempered their approach, after some facts were in.  

There was NOT one correct response, there were facts after awhile neither were exercised or taken, WHY?

They weren't seeking my advice or input, so I honestly have no idea.

I saw your edited mask ?.  I really don't want to get into beating the dead (masking) horse anymore.  In a nutshell, I'm with Mississippi's Republican Governor Tate Reeves.  Why?  He does NOT believe in mandating masks statewide, despite currently being pressured to do so.  He would allow local businesses in hard hit communitues to mandate mask use.  Seems fair.

Reeves also realizes "herd immunity" is a far-fetched idea that is not feasible.  Therefore he thinks folks should be wise.  What a crazy notion!

This article is excellent and a must read for the herd immunity proponents out there. I will paste it verbatim for those who don't like to click on  links.

https://natchezdemocrat.com/2020/07/14/coronavirus-herd-immunity-numbers-just-dont-add-up-mississippi-governor-tate-reeves-says/


Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves is a self-professed numbers guy. He likes numbers and he likes math. He’s good at both and made clear Monday that the numbers side of the notion that the U.S. just needs to let the coronavirus spread until we have “herd immunity” doesn’t add up.

“I’ve listened to some people argue that the rapid spread of cases is a good thing, and we need to reach herd immunity in Mississippi and elsewhere to survive,” Reeves said. “I’m not a health care expert by any means, but I am a math guy.

Reeves said the experts suggest that 70 to 80 percent of the population would need to get the COVID-19 coronavirus to reach herd immunity.

“Let’s assume they’re wrong,” he suggested. “Let’s assume they’re being way overly cautious and we actually only need 40 percent infection for herd immunity.”

“In Mississippi, our population is 3 million. We’ve had 36,680 cases so far,” he said. “We’d need 1.2 million infections to achieve that hypothetical 40 percent threshold. Remember, experts say it’s double that.”

Reeves said Mississippi’s hospital systems had been stressed during the least couple of weeks and has shown the “early signs and effects of it becoming overwhelmed.”

Lack of available hospital beds, particularly ICU beds, has become so bad Reeves ordered the suspension of elective surgeries this week if the surgeries would require overnight stays in the hospital.

“On our worst day of new cases, we had just over 1,000. It has typically been between 700-900 during this most aggressive time,” Reeves said. “To get to 40 percent infections, we’d need 3,187 new cases every day for a full year from today.

“We would need to TRIPLE our worst day—every day—for a year,” he said. “Herd immunity is not anything like a realistic solution in the short or mid-term. I wish it was.”

“Unless you’re willing to go without hospitals after a car wreck or heart attack, we need a different approach,” he said. “Right now, despite mixed messages at the beginning, it seems like masks are the best bet. They’re a hell of a lot better than widespread shutdowns. Please wear one!”


https://www.wlbt.com/2020/07/14/medical-association-calls-statewide-mask-mandate/

[Valkorado]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/506855-arizona-county-requests-refrigerated-trucks-as-morgues-hit-97-capacity

https://www.businessinsider.com/arizona-texas-request-refrigerated-trucks-coronavirus-dead-2020-7

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/covid-deaths-rising-texas-florida-california

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6171501893001#sp=show-clips

[Robert]

Wow alot of trucks for 8 people

Phoenix Mayor Lied About Morgues Bringing In 'Refrigerator Trucks' To Store Overflow COVID Bodies
As the number of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Maricopa County climbed to new highs late this week, Phoenix Mayor Kate Gallego appeared on MSNBC Friday morning for an interview with Chuck Todd and Katy Tur to discuss the situation in the state, which has moved to close bars, and rollback other reopening measures to combat the outbreak.


Hours later, as the mayor's comments started proliferating through the media, representatives for the hospital system called and complained that the mayor's comment wasn't true, despite the fact that she made the claim - seemingly with a high degree of certainty - on a popular cable new show.

Spokesman Keith Jones told azcentral.com that Abrazo hospitals have "adequate morgue space."

Here's the story: Phoenix and the rest of the state have been asked to implement their emergency plans to prepare for possible COVID-19 overloads.

Part of the plan, Jones said, was to proactively make sure there would be enough morgue space. So the hospital system ordered refrigerated storage weeks ago, but they have yet to be deployed.

    "At this point, it is not needed," Jones said.



Arizona
Coronavirus Cases:
128,097
Deaths:
2,337
Recovered:
15,254






More Media-Hyped Hysteria? Fearmongering NBC Doctor Who 'Battled COVID' Admits Never Had Virus

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/more-media-hyped-hysteria-fearmongering-nbc-doctor-who-battled-covid-admits-never-had-virus


HERE is the real story and reason behind the lies



    Democrats in the state believe they need to discredit Gov Doug Ducey's COVID-19 response if they want to succeed in flipping John McCain's old Senate seat, currently occupied by Republican Senator Martha McSally, on Nov. 3.

    The special election is being held to find a permanent successor to the former presidential candidate and longtime Republican Senator.


The reason they asked no ones opinion is because they don't care, never let a crisis go to waste.

Not a health crisis but an election crisis.

[Valkorado]

Hong Kong virologist claiming coronavirus cover-up tells 'Bill Hemmer Reports': 'We don't have much time'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/li-meng-yan-virologist-china-coronavirus-coverup

[Jersey mike]

Let’s see it I can get this out before I forget what I’m going to say.

Stopping travel was a great move.

It’s apparent China did not disclose ALL information and any info they did disclose or discuss was false and/or misleading to “save face”.

The initial crap down of 2 weeks and even propel able the extension to 30 days was not a terrible idea based on the false information coming from China.

Once the media got hold of the story, to drive people to a point of absolute fear it would have been impossible to then say drop all restrictions and strive for herd immunity. The public outrage/outcry would have been beyond nuts as well as the worldwide blowback.

If we had received real data, real information from China, who is suppose to be a cooperating member of the WHO then the President as well as the people of the world could have made different choices and decisions. World wide decisions made on false and misleading info is bad for all.

China had an agreement through the WHO to be part of a world health organization (regardless of the WHO’s current reputation) to not only receive proper and true info regarding health issues in other nations  but to provide any and all health information in their country to the rest of the world.

The premise (IMO) of we could not get to herd immunity with how our county is as free, open and social is inaccurate. If the dozens of sporting arenas had remained open, if businesses and jobs remained open, if our schools had remained open, restaurants, golf courses, beaches and everything else I missed we could be in the middle of gaining that herd immunity, but now there is no going back.

It’s up to the people how we can handle this. It’s up to each individual to decide how is best for their specific situation, their own life and family to make those decisions.

Of course the attempt to gain herd immunity from the get go would have absolutely led to more sick and probably dead. The elderly should always be looked after with extreme care in these highly contagious situations.

I remember my kids going to school during MERSA(spelling?) it was a crazy time. We were constantly being asked by the school to send in wipes and sanitizer but life went on across the nation. Schools stayed open. Sports programs were not canceled at any level, businesses were not shut down and this was a flesh eating disease...now that’s f’in scary stuff.

So, where am I in all this? I guess I’m still standing on my opinion I had since January, open up, let this thing run it’s course and leave the people to decide on their own the best course of action for themselves.

That’s all I can say. Agree, disagree, rip me apart, it’s all good. Because believe it or not I do enjoy open discussions, it brings outside thought, opinions, beliefs and insight into conversations.

[Valkorado]

That’s all I can say. Agree, disagree, rip me apart, it’s all good. Because believe it or not I do enjoy open discussions, it brings outside thought, opinions, beliefs and insight into conversations.

No ripping.  And believe it or not, I respect your perspective.  I do disagree on the prospect of herd immunity without it involving a great number of deaths.  But I don't really have bones to pick with anybody here.  I am for the smallest government possible and I don't believe in mandates.  We may see more eye to eye than you think.  In some ways I very much lean libertarian but I vote conservative for the most part and I always have.   I enjoy civil open discussions as well.  

[Robert]

Journalists scouring the reams of daily data for discrepancies have apparently happened upon bombshell they had been hoping for: Orlando Health has just confirmed that some of the data it shared over the weekend were wrong, after journalists reported more than 50 labs showing 100% positivity rate, or roughly around there. One local Fox affiliate looked into the numbers and contacted a few of the labs to confirm that their internal data matched the public data released by the state.

As it turned out, some of these discrepancies were pretty extreme: Orlando Health, one of the organizations contacted by Fox, confirmed that it's positivity rate was actually 9.8%, not the 98% that had been reported to the state.

    Coronavirus Cases Up The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

The Orlando VA confirmed a similar discrepancy.

    The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran’s Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76%. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.

[Valkorado]

I hope they dole out some punishment up to and including job loss for this.  There's really no excuse for them to release these numbers without verification.  In order to get a grip on community spread we need accurate numbers.  Period.

[Valkorado]

Texas physician talking about the current situation.  She's probably not pulling our collective leg.

https://www.foxnews.com/category/health/infectious-disease/coronavirus