Coronavirus $hit be getting real

[..]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8783851/NYC-warns-neighborhoods-strict-lockdown-TODAY-amid-troubling-COVID-surge.html

[Rams]

Joseph Stalin said "One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic."

Yes, 200,000 dead is a statistic. One can visit any number of COVID-19-tracking websites, which I have linked previously in this thread,  and see the numbers tick up in real time. But we must not forget thapt each time that number rises, someone has lost their mother, father, sister, brother, son, daughter, grandparent, friend, neighbor, or colleague. And someone has lost their life.

Rarely has a single event – even a protracted war – produced such a massive number of US casualties. In World War I, US military deaths totaled 116,516 – just over half the current COVID-19 death toll. As for World War II, between June 1944 and May 8, 1945, 104,812 US troops were killed in action in the European theater of operations. That includes D-Day, the Battle of the Bulge, and many more engagements.

Since WWII, fewer than 200,000 US troops have died in all wars combined. Think about that for a moment. All who lost their lives in the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the first and second Persian Gulf Wars, the almost two-decade-long war in Afghanistan, and the 20-year-long “War on Terror” number fewer than those who have quietly perished from COVID-19 since February.

205,091 Americans dead in 7 months.  TWO HUNDRED FIVE THOUSAND AND NINTEY ONE PEOPLE WITH FAMILIES ARE DEAD WITHIN A SEVEN MONTH PERIOD.

205,091....and counting.

329,794,909 still living and trying to push past all the bs and get on with their lives. Trying to get back their livelihoods, businesses, jobs, school and the enjoyment of recreational activity.

Dwelling on those who lost lives doesn’t help, the citizens know people have died, they don’t need a daily reminder, but that’s the focus.

The virus sucks, but it’s life and we all have to just keep moving forward. Keep working, shopping, getting the kids to school, cooking dinner, doing the daily chores that life requires of each household. Keep moving forward with recreational activities for the kids and adults. Putting fans in the stands at all levels of sporting events.

For the average citizen, carrying the burden of remorse, mourning and sadness of those unknown to them who have passed is a lot to ask. I’m sad people have died, but life goes on and it must go on unless the real course of action is to just give up all hope and say “ok virus you win” come and get me and send me to the afterlife.

Maybe when this IS all over we’ll have a National Day of Mourning.

Ya know Mike, I agree, you're right about the number of folks who have survived and several other things.   I also don't wish to see our economy shut down but, I have to ask, is it such a big burden to mask up, social distance and wash your hands as a minimum? 

Seriously, I don't like wearing a mask, it frequently causes my glasses to fog up.   Social distancing is easier for me, I don't like crowds.   Hand washing is a given in my opinion.   I don't see these simple things as violating my rights and yet, some folks absolutely refuse to take part in controlling the spread of this virus.   You know the one, the virus that ends the lives of the elderly and those with weakened immune systems.   This, I simply don't understand.

This doesn't mean anyone should fear the virus for themselves and if you don't give a damn about others, so be it.  But, when it strikes home, don't say you weren't warned.   It could any time.

I don't mean this as a personal attack, it's just my perspective.

Rams

I didn’t take it as a personal attack. I can grasp the concept of another persons points of view. I like discussion, it’s good to know different perspectives and opinions. I try not to dismiss others and expect that in return. If I have it’s unintentional. I know somethings I’ve written sound callous, uncaring, cold and unsympathetic but they’ve been truthful and some of my most direct opinions. Why have an open discussion where real thoughts and opinions are not discussed in real-time.

I have no misconception f this may hit my family as it has hit all the other families. I have openly discussed my wife has 3 underlying conditions, my 2 daughters have at least 1 underlying condition each. I have 1 underlying condition as does my brother, my niece has 2 underlying conditions, so I have skin in this game. I would be crushed to lose anyone in my own family as well as my extended family but we all know (in our family) there’s nothing we can do about it.

To shop you need a mask, to go to a restaurant you need a mask, to go to a medical appointment you need a mask and so on, everything you do and everywhere you go you need a mask, so it’s not about the medical protocol, we’ve gone light years beyond that and people are missing that point for the sake of protecting a portion of society that’s the most at risk for almost any type of outside illness.

Tens and tens of Millions are suffering the cost of ruined livelihoods for the sake of protecting the weakest and I’m sorry that sounds so cold but it’s the cold hard truth. There is no cold hard facts that show why this nation or any nation should be shut down or under any restrictions.

Trying to control the spread of the virus is one thing, ruining people’s livelihoods, dreams, businesses and education is something completely different and I haven’t even touched on the possible ramifications of this upcoming election without the ability to vote in person.

We here in the States have been given the right to do as we please within the guidelines of the Constitution and our local laws. Each person follows his or hers own moral compass and in the end may need to answer to a higher authority. Each person has the ability to do as they deem fit for their own good with the ability to know what may or may not be the best for all others. Not wanting to wear a mask may seem selfish to some but perfectly acceptable to others who may not have interactions with anyone highly vulnerable. Like speeding on the roadway, we all know it’s illegal; you, your passengers or another vehicle on the road my be involved in an accident but the majority do it anyway without a second thought and will deal with the possible consequences when it happens. If that’s a bad analogy sorry.

This wasn’t suppose to go this long, don’t blame anyone if they skip it.

It was worth the read, thanks for posting.
As I previously stated, I am not supporting shutting down our economy.   I'm also not in favor of all the give away stuff (and especially that additional $600 for unemployment that Speaker Pelosi threw in).   People need to work.   I also don't think essential workers are more important than non-essential workers.   

What I simply can't grasp is why some folks don't or won't get with the program and try to follow CDC guidelines.   Many don't or won't even do the little things to prevent the spread of this virus (at least till it comes to their own family).   I fully realize what the numbers indicate.   I also realize what a wildly spread virus could do to the country and to be honest, this rock we call home.

Now, we have to confront an additional virus that normally visit us each year.  The Flu.   
I can only imagine how the combination will drive those numbers.   Obviously, young and virile folks don't have the issues some of us have but, they will most assuredly help spread that bug also.

Rams

[scooperhsd]

We have done what we can - the wife and me both had a flu shot last weekend (or maybe the one before), and while I was at it I had my 1st ever pnuemonia shot. With the C-19 being around, I figure I need to minimize possible problems. I'll still keep grumbling about masks, and keep up with hand washing and social distancing (except within my social circle who will be honest when there is a problem).

[Valkorado]

Very well expressed thoughts, Ron.

Scooper, our only community flu shot is a drive-thru deal this year, October 7th.  I'll be there, sportin' the (required) mask.   

[Rams]

We have done what we can - the wife and me both had a flu shot last weekend (or maybe the one before), and while I was at it I had my 1st ever pnuemonia shot. With the C-19 being around, I figure I need to minimize possible problems. I'll still keep grumbling about masks, and keep up with hand washing and social distancing (except within my social circle who will be honest when there is a problem).

Getting my shot(s) next week.   Would have already taken them but, there's a small restriction with another shot I got.   Would like to get the new Shingles shot but, insurance won't cover it and to be honest, it's expensive and, you have to get it twice.  Who'd have thunk it. 

Rams

[hubcapsc]

We have done what we can - the wife and me both had a flu shot last weekend (or maybe the one before), and while I was at it I had my 1st ever pnuemonia shot. With the C-19 being around, I figure I need to minimize possible problems. I'll still keep grumbling about masks, and keep up with hand washing and social distancing (except within my social circle who will be honest when there is a problem).

Getting my shot(s) next week.   Would have already taken them but, there's a small restriction with another shot I got.   Would like to get the new Shingles shot but, insurance won't cover it and to be honest, it's expensive and, you have to get it twice.  Who'd have thunk it. 

Rams

I got my 2nd shingles (shingrix) shot and my flu shot last week,
at the Ingles grocery store pharmacy. Maybe they have my insurance
on file there? - there was no talk of payment...

I had my Dr checkup that same day, both shots would have been
expensive at the Dr's office...

-Mike

[Willow]

... but, I have to ask, is it such a big burden to mask up, social distance and wash your hands as a minimum? 
...

I've no problem with washing my hands more than I once did.  I've no issue with being aware of whom I have been near and using that knowledge to be more careful.  I've no problem with people choosing to mask themselves.  I've not a serious issue with a business demanding that I wear a mask to come onto their premises.  I do have an issue with the government mandating the limiting of businesses and the wearing of masks by the general public.

Whether by intent or simply an unexpected side effect we as a culture are being conditioned to subjugate ourselves to even ridiculous demands.  We are also being taught to see each person with whom we come into contact as a potential deadly poison.  It is damaging our culture.

So much of our trust and relationship in our culture is based upon close contact or physical touch.  Twenty percent of the population is as I am, almost dependent upon physical touch and in daily need of human interaction.  I don't want to see that change.

Are the demands made of us ridiculous?  The mask is only effective if the wearer is carrying the virus.  Over the nation the chances of one carrying the virus is something close to eight in a thousand.  Considering that many or most of the infected are home bound or even hospitalized that ratio drops to two or three in a thousand.  In most of the country that ratio drops to nearly zero.  So does it make any sense for 997 healthy people to wear masks which may do some small thing to reduce the danger presented by two or three?  I don't think so.  Early on the public was told that the mask would only stop an infected person from spreading.  It has grown until folks are being advised to mask for their own protection.  That's false and only serves as panic fodder.  

The bottom line is that if I'm healthy I am doing no one else or myself any good by wearing a mask.

One element of the panic fodder is the spreading of the belief that COVID-19 is almost a death sentence for a portion of the population.  In the highest risk category the statistics indicate the chance of surviving the infection is almost eighty-five percent.

I am happy to see eating establishments sanitizing tables between customers.  Should we have been doing that all along?

I am against unreasonable panic and mandated stupid behavior.

[Jess from VA]

We have done what we can - the wife and me both had a flu shot last weekend (or maybe the one before), and while I was at it I had my 1st ever pnuemonia shot. With the C-19 being around, I figure I need to minimize possible problems. I'll still keep grumbling about masks, and keep up with hand washing and social distancing (except within my social circle who will be honest when there is a problem).

Getting my shot(s) next week.   Would have already taken them but, there's a small restriction with another shot I got.   Would like to get the new Shingles shot but, insurance won't cover it and to be honest, it's expensive and, you have to get it twice.  Who'd have thunk it. 

Rams

I got my 2nd shingles (shingrix) shot and my flu shot last week,
at the Ingles grocery store pharmacy. Maybe they have my insurance
on file there? - there was no talk of payment...

I had my Dr checkup that same day, both shots would have been
expensive at the Dr's office...

-Mike

Mike, I'm just curious.  Did getting the first shingle shot, or the second shingle and flu shots together give you any physical reaction, fever, sickness? 

I never had a flu shot reaction beyond a sore arm, but many of my military immunizations made me pretty sick and feverish for a while. 

[hubcapsc]

Mike, I'm just curious.  Did getting the first shingle shot, or the second shingle and flu shots together give you any physical reaction, fever, sickness?  

I don't remember reactions on the first one, I've slept since then   ...

I felt "bloppy" for a couple of days after getting both flu and shingrix shots at the
same time recently, though... I even checked my temp, it was 98.something,
I guess that counts as a low-grade fever. My shingrix arm was sore at the injection
site for a week or so...

I've known numerous people who had shingles, it really sucks sometimes...

I had the flu once in college, was that ever a crappy week...

-Mike

[scooperhsd]

108 is a pretty serious fever - perhaps you meant 100.8 ?

[hubcapsc]

108 is a pretty serious fever - perhaps you meant 100.8 ?

Fixed it.

-Mike "nine, ten, whatever...  "

[Valkorado]

Meanwhile in Israel.

https://m.jpost.com/health-science/israels-six-stage-coronavirus-exit-strategy-643867

https://m.jpost.com/health-science/coronavirus-lockdown-to-last-more-than-10-days-643808/amp

[Jess from VA]

Mike, I'm just curious.  Did getting the first shingle shot, or the second shingle and flu shots together give you any physical reaction, fever, sickness?  

I don't remember reactions on the first one, I've slept since then   ...

I felt "bloppy" for a couple of days after getting both flu and shingrix shots at the
same time recently, though... I even checked my temp, it was 98.something,
I guess that counts as a low-grade fever. My shingrix arm was sore at the injection
site for a week or so...

I've known numerous people who had shingles, it really sucks sometimes...

I had the flu once in college, was that ever a crappy week...

-Mike

Thanks for the reply.

I had the flu a couple times in my life, but only once in college was bad (London flu with codeine hallucinations, laid up in my dorm room).  But I had the shingles while working here in VA about 14 years ago (around the chest, but not the face) and it was not nice, but I was told it was a mild case (like a mild case of electric shock therapy across the chest).  Also a kidney stone about then too.

But none since, and no shots since then either.  

They write the shingle shots are only good for 5 years.

You roll the dice, you take your chances.  I've been lucky with disease and injury my whole life, mostly.  Not one virus or cold of any kind in over 10 years.  (but I'm a bit of a hermit)

I never minded shots much, until the Air Force made me get everything necessary to go overseas to the Middle East all at one time (6-7), and I passed out and slobbered on myself, and was told I was setting a bad example for the troops as they lifted me off the floor and drug me out of line into a private area. And real sick for a few days.  And I didn't get sent overseas (again) after all, so the whole thing was a Chinese fire drill.  After that, I never lined up for shots again, except a couple flu shots.  My tetanus and other std immunizations are now decades out of currency, and I don't care.  I'll live 'till I don't.

[Jersey mike]

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-tennessee-data-exposes-the-lie-of-coronavirus-panic-masks

“ Tennessee has been in the news lately because the Nashville mayor was caught fudging data to keep businesses in the state's capital closed for longer than necessary. The outrage triggered by the story caused the mayor to relent and ease some of the restrictions. But new data compiled by Nashville for Rational COVID Policy shows that the entire premise of lockdown and mask-wearing is unfounded because the scope of the threat of the virus, as well as the effectiveness of the responses to it, are exaggerated.”



https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-nashville-covid-numbers-lockdown-agenda

In that article are multiple sources made available, just click on the underlined in red.

[carolinarider09]

TRUTH!

Mike Leach on face coverings: "Once you're six feet apart, I can't help but wonder if some of this isn't an homage to politicians"


https://www.si.com/college/mississippistate/football/leach-face-coverings-92820

[Jersey mike]

It was worth the read, thanks for posting.
As I previously stated, I am not supporting shutting down our economy.   I'm also not in favor of all the give away stuff (and especially that additional $600 for unemployment that Speaker Pelosi threw in).   People need to work.   I also don't think essential workers are more important than non-essential workers.   

What I simply can't grasp is why some folks don't or won't get with the program and try to follow CDC guidelines.   Many don't or won't even do the little things to prevent the spread of this virus (at least till it comes to their own family).   I fully realize what the numbers indicate.   I also realize what a wildly spread virus could do to the country and to be honest, this rock we call home.

Now, we have to confront an additional virus that normally visit us each year.  The Flu.   
I can only imagine how the combination will drive those numbers.   Obviously, young and virile folks don't have the issues some of us have but, they will most assuredly help spread that bug also.

Rams
[/quote]

When the first stimulus pkg came out I wasn’t too disappointed about that. It was at a time things were on the verge of really falling apart and people were really wondering if and when we’d ever reopen. I felt that after all the years of pouring money into other countries it was a good time finally focus on our own people. Then I found out about the $600 p/week and how there were some abusing that also. So much for everyone doing the right thing.

I honestly don’t know what to expect for the flu season. How much will be reported as COVID or just flu.

I can’t make a good determination right now except it may cause issues. I will say though I have a gut feeling we will not see the level of hospitalization as we did in the original outbreak.

[Valkorado]

[
I honestly don’t know what to expect for the flu season. How much will be reported as COVID or just flu.

I can’t make a good determination right now except it may cause issues. I will say though I have a gut feeling we will not see the level of hospitalization as we did in the original outbreak.

I sincerely hope not.  Behaviors do matter, much of this is truly up to us (We the People).

[Jersey mike]

I’ve been debating whether or not to get a flu shot, never had one before.

Maybe this will be the year.

[Serk]

I’ve been debating whether or not to get a flu shot, never had one before.

Maybe this will be the year.

Only had one ever, the Triplets first year, as preemies they basically told us we HAD to have one. I gave in, had the nasal one since I don't like shots.

Got sick as crap for about a week, sicker than I've been in over a decade.

Won't do that crap again.

(And I think "antivax" folks are morons, but damn, that flu "shot" knocked me on my ass HARD...)

[Jersey mike]

So there’s a so called Spike in my county...no hospitalization though.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/09/whats-causing-the-big-coronavirus-spike-in-ocean-county-latest-hotspot-has-officials-concerned.html

This website is a very left leaning Wednesday so,take what they say with a grain of salt. The sky is always falling with them.

[cookiedough]

... but, I have to ask, is it such a big burden to mask up, social distance and wash your hands as a minimum? 
...

I've no problem with washing my hands more than I once did.  I've no issue with being aware of whom I have been near and using that knowledge to be more careful.  I've no problem with people choosing to mask themselves.  I've not a serious issue with a business demanding that I wear a mask to come onto their premises.  I do have an issue with the government mandating the limiting of businesses and the wearing of masks by the general public.

Whether by intent or simply an unexpected side effect we as a culture are being conditioned to subjugate ourselves to even ridiculous demands.  We are also being taught to see each person with whom we come into contact as a potential deadly poison.  It is damaging our culture.

So much of our trust and relationship in our culture is based upon close contact or physical touch.  Twenty percent of the population is as I am, almost dependent upon physical touch and in daily need of human interaction.  I don't want to see that change.

Are the demands made of us ridiculous?  The mask is only effective if the wearer is carrying the virus.  Over the nation the chances of one carrying the virus is something close to eight in a thousand.  Considering that many or most of the infected are home bound or even hospitalized that ratio drops to two or three in a thousand.  In most of the country that ratio drops to nearly zero.  So does it make any sense for 997 healthy people to wear masks which may do some small thing to reduce the danger presented by two or three?  I don't think so.  Early on the public was told that the mask would only stop an infected person from spreading.  It has grown until folks are being advised to mask for their own protection.  That's false and only serves as panic fodder.  

The bottom line is that if I'm healthy I am doing no one else or myself any good by wearing a mask.

One element of the panic fodder is the spreading of the belief that COVID-19 is almost a death sentence for a portion of the population.  In the highest risk category the statistics indicate the chance of surviving the infection is almost eighty-five percent.

I am happy to see eating establishments sanitizing tables between customers.  Should we have been doing that all along?

I am against unreasonable panic and mandated stupid behavior.

Willow, well said. so much so can you be the spokesmen for my company and go to HR and tell them what you just said?   

[The emperor has no clothes]

... but, I have to ask, is it such a big burden to mask up, social distance and wash your hands as a minimum? 
...

I've no problem with washing my hands more than I once did.  I've no issue with being aware of whom I have been near and using that knowledge to be more careful.  I've no problem with people choosing to mask themselves.  I've not a serious issue with a business demanding that I wear a mask to come onto their premises.  I do have an issue with the government mandating the limiting of businesses and the wearing of masks by the general public.

Whether by intent or simply an unexpected side effect we as a culture are being conditioned to subjugate ourselves to even ridiculous demands.  We are also being taught to see each person with whom we come into contact as a potential deadly poison.  It is damaging our culture.

So much of our trust and relationship in our culture is based upon close contact or physical touch.  Twenty percent of the population is as I am, almost dependent upon physical touch and in daily need of human interaction.  I don't want to see that change.

Are the demands made of us ridiculous?  The mask is only effective if the wearer is carrying the virus.  Over the nation the chances of one carrying the virus is something close to eight in a thousand.  Considering that many or most of the infected are home bound or even hospitalized that ratio drops to two or three in a thousand.  In most of the country that ratio drops to nearly zero.  So does it make any sense for 997 healthy people to wear masks which may do some small thing to reduce the danger presented by two or three?  I don't think so.  Early on the public was told that the mask would only stop an infected person from spreading.  It has grown until folks are being advised to mask for their own protection.  That's false and only serves as panic fodder.  

The bottom line is that if I'm healthy I am doing no one else or myself any good by wearing a mask.

One element of the panic fodder is the spreading of the belief that COVID-19 is almost a death sentence for a portion of the population.  In the highest risk category the statistics indicate the chance of surviving the infection is almost eighty-five percent.

I am happy to see eating establishments sanitizing tables between customers.  Should we have been doing that all along?

I am against unreasonable panic and mandated stupid behavior.

Willow, well said. so much so can you be the spokesmen for my company and go to HR and tell them what you just said?   

Excellent idea ! I enjoy the idea of Willow and Cookiedough working hand in hand to solve the world's problems. 

[_Sheffjs_]

... but, I have to ask, is it such a big burden to mask up, social distance and wash your hands as a minimum? 
...

I've no problem with washing my hands more than I once did.  I've no issue with being aware of whom I have been near and using that knowledge to be more careful.  I've no problem with people choosing to mask themselves.  I've not a serious issue with a business demanding that I wear a mask to come onto their premises.  I do have an issue with the government mandating the limiting of businesses and the wearing of masks by the general public.

Whether by intent or simply an unexpected side effect we as a culture are being conditioned to subjugate ourselves to even ridiculous demands.  We are also being taught to see each person with whom we come into contact as a potential deadly poison.  It is damaging our culture.

So much of our trust and relationship in our culture is based upon close contact or physical touch.  Twenty percent of the population is as I am, almost dependent upon physical touch and in daily need of human interaction.  I don't want to see that change.

Are the demands made of us ridiculous?  The mask is only effective if the wearer is carrying the virus.  Over the nation the chances of one carrying the virus is something close to eight in a thousand.  Considering that many or most of the infected are home bound or even hospitalized that ratio drops to two or three in a thousand.  In most of the country that ratio drops to nearly zero.  So does it make any sense for 997 healthy people to wear masks which may do some small thing to reduce the danger presented by two or three?  I don't think so.  Early on the public was told that the mask would only stop an infected person from spreading.  It has grown until folks are being advised to mask for their own protection.  That's false and only serves as panic fodder.  

The bottom line is that if I'm healthy I am doing no one else or myself any good by wearing a mask.

One element of the panic fodder is the spreading of the belief that COVID-19 is almost a death sentence for a portion of the population.  In the highest risk category the statistics indicate the chance of surviving the infection is almost eighty-five percent.

I am happy to see eating establishments sanitizing tables between customers.  Should we have been doing that all along?

I am against unreasonable panic and mandated stupid behavior.

Willow, well said. so much so can you be the spokesmen for my company and go to HR and tell them what you just said?   

Excellent idea ! I enjoy the idea of Willow and Cookiedough working hand in hand to solve the world's problems. 

I enjoy that Manatee county released the mandatory face mask rule and I walked into a paint store this morning (that had no mask signs) to a worker with no mask and picked up my order, with no mask.  Ok, I was also on a massive cooler weather high! Rob how is Arizona's temps?   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Frigging terrible still ! I guess I got spoiled working in a 45* cutting room for 47 years. Actually, it's starting to cool off. We are down to highs of 107*  (I love the name of your county) 

[Valkorado]

Record Dutch COVID-19 cases prompt U-turn on face masks

https://news.yahoo.com/policy-u-turn-dutch-government-144226253.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAB5MfRyXtELB7S2t-WD4BdXPhCYLajSangyd-94K9EJsUYom76exozUR-xS_nwUFOw8oQOJVAjwu9kzd9GEbDRpTKkUCL5RCgXOGqMAjr1uG8tfwW7VUE_dHlYd3WVy0_JrIzhVtEJ2hHs4Cz0TY_3W3Z34uXekQdvMIu7e9jOkL

[Jersey mike]

Hey all, so I’m posting this in the spirit of full disclosure.

My youngest (20) is in her junior year of college, living off campus with 3 other girls.

2 days ago one of her advanced chem lab classmates Tested positive for C-19, so the school told all students in that class they had to get tested before the lab could resume in person. We are awaiting test results. I texted with my daughter yesterday all is well with her and her roommates.

Now keeping with the full disclosure theme I’ll add this which I never discussed because we will never know a real answer.

It goes this way.

Back in the the very early days of China reporting on people being “sick” and the media from China and the international media stationed in China releasing news video of the remediation processes our youngest was away at school living in her dorm...3 floors, 2 to a room, many kids.

There were a few days of texting with mom about not feeling well and she was told to take cold medication, eat right , take her vitamins and so on and if she got worse to go to the campus medical office. They can provide prescription meds if necessary but rarely do.

So anyway, a few days later she called mom asking to be picked up, she’s having trouble breathing, it “felt like an elephant standing on her chest”. She is susceptible to pneumonia, has had it multiple times and has mild asthma at times. She said she was afraid to drive the 40 minutes home, she was that tired and weak.

Mom picked her up and made an appointment to see her doctor (her pediatrician who has seen her for her entire life) the next day. While she was home we were discussing, making fun of the China issue about another crazy thing going on there and my daughter responded “several of her sorority sisters just came home from there, crazy isn’t it.” We asked came home from where and she replied from the area around Wuhan. She said she was in contact with the girls who went and didn’t know if any were sick.

They were there on some kind of trip but not affiliated with the school, possibly a sorority thing but I’m not too sure. Her sorority is a service sorority.

She went to the doctor and got a script for Z-pack with refill. She stayed home for a day or so, took the course of Z-pak and still didn’t feel better. After a second trip back,to the doctor, it turned out he wanted her to take both courses back to back. He gave her another script for 1 course and told her to begin the second does immediately.

Midway through the 2nd course she was pretty much back to normal.

Can we say she had it...no we can’t, at that time it wasn’t “in the US” and there was no test. She didn’t have strep or pneumonia. She did use the nebulizer we have a few times to help. We only believe she may have had it form the description she gave of an elephant standing on her chest because that was the common description which was being given at some time.

I haven’t mentioned the issue with my daughter before as I said we have no proof she indeed had it, but with the sorority people returning from China it may have been. I mentioned this now because I try to be as open about this and all things as possible. I’d like for there to be trust in conversation.

If by posting this now says to you I’m not to be trusted, that I wasn’t honest or was hiding something, then I don’t know what to say about that.

I’ll post with update when test results are in.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've wondered the same thing a couple times. Back in February some of my fellow workers got sick with the flu. I started to get it also. But, it was different. Normally once a year or so I will get a cold or the flu. For me the symptoms are always the same. Lots of congestion, headache, sore throat. This time it was different. As some of my workers got it and battled with it for a week or so, mine came on with no congestion just a headache and sore throat. And then poof, it was over in a day or two.

I think they have an antibody test to determine if one has had it.

[Jersey mike]

Record Dutch COVID-19 cases prompt U-turn on face masks

https://news.yahoo.com/policy-u-turn-dutch-government-144226253.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAB5MfRyXtELB7S2t-WD4BdXPhCYLajSangyd-94K9EJsUYom76exozUR-xS_nwUFOw8oQOJVAjwu9kzd9GEbDRpTKkUCL5RCgXOGqMAjr1uG8tfwW7VUE_dHlYd3WVy0_JrIzhVtEJ2hHs4Cz0TY_3W3Z34uXekQdvMIu7e9jOkL

https://nltimes.nl/2020/09/30/dutch-coronavirus-record-broken-yet-3302-test-positive-hospital-admits-may-levels

[Valkorado]

Really glad that your daughter is well Mike.

Reading this does not make me think you're not to be trusted.  Quite the opposite.  I am surprised that after this experience you would continue to trivialize the virus and ridicule preventative mitigations like masking.

[Jersey mike]

Really glad that your daughter is well Mike.

Reading this does not make me think you're not to be trusted.  Quite the opposite.  I am surprised that after this experience you would continue to trivialize the virus and ridicule preventative mitigations like masking.

I can’t say for certain why the mask thing bothers me, there has been a difference of opinions on both side side of that argument by professionals.

Perhaps it’s the method the media presents the entire situation, doom and gloom the sky is falling and the finger pointing at our President.

With even the slightest of upticks in reports on the number of cases the use of “surge” in numbers is quite frankly an over exaggeration. (IMO) The term surge is a stolen phrase from Tje Weather Channel when describing storm surge. The media hammers the word surge on a constant basis daily instead of words like rise, increase or multiply.

The use of the word surge in this situation portrays an overwhelming, overflowing multitude of bodies floating by or into emergency rooms on a COVID wave when that’s not the case.

The media is on a feeding frenzy of fear from the general population and instead of being or attempting to be honest and calming the fire of fear is constantly being stoked as well as the obvious politicization of the virus.

I do as I am required when going into a store, I wear a mask. I have no option if I’m to get what I need. Thankfully I don’t shop much...Home Depot, hardware stores are typically my stops, the wife does the food shopping and Walmart runs. Speaking of the wife, she’s been making masks for months now, selling them to some people (for virtually nothing, just cove the cost of materials) and giving away to many.

I still stand by allowing people to decide for themselves, what’s best for them and their loved ones as well zero restrictions on capacity size for businesses such as restaurants, bars, hotels, religious communities, social gatherings, size of wedding ceremonies and parties and so on.

[scooperhsd]

Mike - it is possible (I stress possible) that your daughter may have had an early version and fortunately she responded to treatment.

I do not think any less of you.

And yes, the media is using "surge" when they should be using less inflamatory words to describe  an increase in cases / deaths. Another thing that pisses me off.

Here's to hoping you and yours are doing well.

[Valkorado]

Really glad that your daughter is well Mike.

Reading this does not make me think you're not to be trusted.  Quite the opposite.  I am surprised that after this experience you would continue to trivialize the virus and ridicule preventative mitigations like masking.

I can’t say for certain why the mask thing bothers me, there has been a difference of opinions on both side side of that argument by professionals.

Perhaps it’s the method the media presents the entire situation, doom and gloom the sky is falling and the finger pointing at our President.

With even the slightest of upticks in reports on the number of cases the use of “surge” in numbers is quite frankly an over exaggeration. (IMO) The term surge is a stolen phrase from Tje Weather Channel when describing storm surge. The media hammers the word surge on a constant basis daily instead of words like rise, increase or multiply.

The use of the word surge in this situation portrays an overwhelming, overflowing multitude of bodies floating by or into emergency rooms on a COVID wave when that’s not the case.

The media is on a feeding frenzy of fear from the general population and instead of being or attempting to be honest and calming the fire of fear is constantly being stoked as well as the obvious politicization of the virus.

I do as I am required when going into a store, I wear a mask. I have no option if I’m to get what I need. Thankfully I don’t shop much...Home Depot, hardware stores are typically my stops, the wife does the food shopping and Walmart runs. Speaking of the wife, she’s been making masks for months now, selling them to some people (for virtually nothing, just cove the cost of materials) and giving away to many.

I still stand by allowing people to decide for themselves, what’s best for them and their loved ones as well zero restrictions on capacity size for businesses such as restaurants, bars, hotels, religious communities, social gatherings, size of wedding ceremonies and parties and so on.

Perhaps it’s the method the media presents the entire situation, doom and gloom the sky is falling and the finger pointing at our President.


Much I agree with here.  

I HATE THE POLITICIZATION OF CORONAVIRUS!  I also agree with NO mandates, but when I see folks touting their lovely faces inside a business that clearly advertises that masking is required inside the premises, I am less than amused with some of those fellow patriots.  They proudly show off their stubborn disbief in the science.  I have been "exposed" to this on several occasions now.   I'm glad you are not one of those folks.

I have said I think the media has overblown some aspects of C-19 for underhanded political gain.  There is no doubt this does happen.

Wisconsin is currently having some hospital issues.  Is it on a world ending, apocalyptic scale with decayng bodies piled up in the streets?  Nope.  But like the virus, it's real enough that shuffling extremely critical patients from hospital to hospital is occurring.  It is a sh!t virus.


Coronavirus in Wisconsin: Federal official tells Wisconsin businesses that economy won't recover until virus under control
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/09/30/covid-19-wisconsin-latest-updates-coronavirus-cases-news/3582092001/

'I wish they could see how bad things are getting': As Wisconsin hospitals fill up with COVID patients, front-line workers sound the alarm
https://www.postcrescent.com/in-depth/news/2020/10/01/wisconsin-coronavirus-hospitalizations-worry-staff-who-fear-surge/3574106001/

COVID Patients Filling Wisconsin Hospitals As Virus Surges
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/09/30/covid-patients-filling-wisconsin-hospitals-as-virus-surges/

What constitutes a spike can be determined when the final numbers are compiled, charted and graphed.  Realistically that may be years after they have stopped increasing in our country and worldwide.  Years after C-19 is controlled or defeated.

Does C-19 justify economic shutdown in our country?  Nope.  But, it isn't as easy as just opening 'er up.  Disney tried doing just that.  They just laid off 28,000 employees because enough folks aren't feeling safe enough for full blown normalcy and fun yet.   Whether that is solely due to the media I can not say.  But don't lose sight of the fact that there is a nagging novel virus still floatng around out there that is at the root of the issue.  If the virus was not an issue, nobody woukd be talkng about it. Seems it is the story, globally.

By the way, it's a virus.  It is not our President's fault, it's China's bouncing baby.

[Valkorado]

Hoping for the best here.

Donald and Melania Trump Quarantine After Top Aide Tests Positive for Coronavirus
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/donald-trump-quarantine-hope-hicks-coronavirus-1069998/amp/

[..]

Google this week the Chinese go on vacation. About 700 million. Let's see what the plague does to them.

[Jersey mike]

Mike - it is possible (I stress possible) that your daughter may have had an early version and fortunately she responded to treatment.

I do not think any less of you.

And yes, the media is using "surge" when they should be using less inflamatory words to describe  an increase in cases / deaths. Another thing that pisses me off.

Here's to hoping you and yours are doing well.

Test results are negative.

[ridingron]

...   Does C-19 justify economic shutdown in our country?  Nope.  But, it isn't as easy as just opening 'er up.  Disney tried doing just that.  They just laid off 28,000 employees because enough folks aren't feeling safe enough for full blown normalcy and fun yet.   Whether that is solely due to the media I can not say. ... 

The 28,000 number is for the whole U.S.  Only Florida Disney properties have opened and at reduced capacity. I have no idea of the average number of "guest" needed, in attendance, to pay the daily bills.  I do know that, back in the early 80's, Epcot's daily electric bill was about $10,000. The nightly fireworks display was another big stack of money. I heard rumors it was $8-$!0,000 a night. The daily admission price was $15 when Epcot opened. I think it is over $100 now.

[Jersey mike]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


2 charts to look at closely on this site. First is the daily cases, the numbers are dropping...slowly but dropping.

The second is the daily deaths, on average we are staying below 1000 cases per day and that number is dropping also.

Things are looking up.

With Florida and Tennessee wide open I’m hoping other states will return to getting back to living life and being normal again,but I’m sure there are some sitting by watching and waiting before pulling the trigger on reopening without restrictions.

[Valkorado]

How might President Donald Trump fare with COVID-19?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/how-might-president-donald-trump-be-treated-covid-19

Some interesting info here.

[Rams]

... but, I have to ask, is it such a big burden to mask up, social distance and wash your hands as a minimum? 
...

I've no problem with washing my hands more than I once did.  I've no issue with being aware of whom I have been near and using that knowledge to be more careful.  I've no problem with people choosing to mask themselves.  I've not a serious issue with a business demanding that I wear a mask to come onto their premises.  I do have an issue with the government mandating the limiting of businesses and the wearing of masks by the general public.

Whether by intent or simply an unexpected side effect we as a culture are being conditioned to subjugate ourselves to even ridiculous demands.  We are also being taught to see each person with whom we come into contact as a potential deadly poison.  It is damaging our culture.

So much of our trust and relationship in our culture is based upon close contact or physical touch.  Twenty percent of the population is as I am, almost dependent upon physical touch and in daily need of human interaction.  I don't want to see that change.

Are the demands made of us ridiculous?  The mask is only effective if the wearer is carrying the virus.  Over the nation the chances of one carrying the virus is something close to eight in a thousand.  Considering that many or most of the infected are home bound or even hospitalized that ratio drops to two or three in a thousand.  In most of the country that ratio drops to nearly zero.  So does it make any sense for 997 healthy people to wear masks which may do some small thing to reduce the danger presented by two or three?  I don't think so.  Early on the public was told that the mask would only stop an infected person from spreading.  It has grown until folks are being advised to mask for their own protection.  That's false and only serves as panic fodder.  

The bottom line is that if I'm healthy I am doing no one else or myself any good by wearing a mask.

One element of the panic fodder is the spreading of the belief that COVID-19 is almost a death sentence for a portion of the population.  In the highest risk category the statistics indicate the chance of surviving the infection is almost eighty-five percent.

I am happy to see eating establishments sanitizing tables between customers.  Should we have been doing that all along?

I am against unreasonable panic and mandated stupid behavior.

Willow, well said. so much so can you be the spokesmen for my company and go to HR and tell them what you just said?   

Generally speaking, I agree with most of what Willow said.   The problem area I have is that time frame where a person has been subjected to the virus, is carrying it and sharing it with those they come into close contact with.   During that time frame, the carrier isn't normally feeling any symptoms and has no idea they are a carrier.

Once the carrier starts feeling the symptoms, most folks will self quarantine and or go see their docs but, until then they are spreading the virus.    I also agree that the survival rate is very high but, who really wants to get or share such a virus.  I'm also not in favor of Uncle Sugar mandating masks.   But, I think it's good common sense to follow CDC guidance.   

Rams

[hubcapsc]

Willow: The bottom line is that if I'm healthy I am doing no one else or
            myself any good by wearing a mask.

John Sette, the former chairman of the Morris County Republican Committee,
said Mr. Trump appeared “100% normal” at the [Thursday afternoon] fundraiser
at Mr. Trump’s golf club in Bedminster. - Wall Street Journal

Hi Willow. Trump tweeted that his Covid test came back positive at
1:00am Friday morning. Do you get tested everyday?

I hate the mask. I bought a box of 50 right before InZane. I tried to
slog down the hall at the motel with one on, but didn't go back to my
room to get one on the many times I forgot to leave with one. I wear one
at the grocery store and at Home Depot. I put one on at the Vet yesterday.
I was re-using them some during the summer, a couple of days in
my closed-up car in the sun probably made them "safe", but how
could I really know that?

I do have access to kooks-R-us.org, so I can do my own Internet-based
research, but I'm not 100% confident with that, so I'm going with "perhaps
we can be contagious without knowing it" and will continue to try and wear
a mask when forced to go shoulder-to-shoulder with the general public. I
don't think it protects me at all.

-Mike "I still have and use several bottles of VRCC hand sanitizer..."