Ladyfriend showing me her collection of Boom Bangs

[..]

Kessler 12ga bolt action / no magazine

Steven Savage 12 ga model 77A

Remington Rand .45

Old Ruger .22

All need to be cleaned up. Not by me. A pro once the plague dissipates.

[Serk]

Remington Rand .45

Make sure she's very selective as to whom she takes that one to...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/866876639

[..]

Remington Rand .45

Make sure she's very selective as to whom she takes that one to...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/866876639

Sent you a PM

[Robert]

OH guns, thats what you meant

[Jess from VA]

Remington Rand .45

Make sure she's very selective as to whom she takes that one to...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/866876639

You beat me to it.

Serial no (production) information:  http://sightm1911.com/1911Production.htm

More information:  http://www.coltautos.com/1911a1ci_984284.htm

These are more collectors than shooters, and depending on condition, shouldn't be shot at all.  (and if you do you almost certainly want low power ammo and a new recoil spring).  

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/63/932/remingtonrand-1911a1-pistol-45-acp

[Jess from VA]

OH guns, that's what you meant

Yeah, I haven't had any lady show me her boom bangs for quite some time.

[cookiedough]

knowing how some think on here including me,  this thread should get the most VIEWS and one of the least REPLIES  once they find out is not HER BOOM BANG....   

[3fan4life]

Remington Rand .45

Make sure she's very selective as to whom she takes that one to...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/866876639

I find it  amazing that they are valued so highly.

I fired plenty of them when I was in the Army and every single one of them was a POS.

[Jess from VA]

Military issue historical firearms continue to increase in value as collectors, even though many are not themselves very good firearms.  This is certainly true for old 1911s, which were not well fitted and often fired trash can lid size groups at best.  Sidearms used by rifle carrying armies, were always considered last ditch weapons used at near point blank, and the old 1911s were loose on purpose to stay reliable in the mud and rain of extended combat.  And issued to cooks and bakers and truck drivers and other service troops.

The M1 carbine, designed and produced to replace the 1911 (at a fraction of 1911 cost, per unit), became the highest production small arm of WWII (6.1 million), and it was no gift to accuracy or man-stopping either, although any rifle or carbine is better than almost any (basic production) handgun (and it produced twice the stopping power of a 1911).  And the M1 carbine was made by numerous companies, with many parts mixed and matched between companies throughout the war.

The Rock Ola (juke box company) M1 carbine is the 2d rarest of all (only 228,500) produced, but collector prices today run a ridiculous $1500-2500 (though they only cost $45 apiece to make).

I got a (very common) Inland (division of GM) M1 carbine, when you could buy them for $90-125 or so.  As a collector, although it shoots very well.  Today, I see common M1 carbines go for $5-600 everywhere, and I'd never pay that for one.  And I would never pay the prices of collector 1911s, and I like 1911A1s quite a bit, but I want good ones. 

But old 1911s and Carbines (and others) remain popular collectors (or the prices wouldn't keep going up).

[Serk]

Remington Rand .45

Make sure she's very selective as to whom she takes that one to...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/866876639

I find it  amazing that they are valued so highly.

I fired plenty of them when I was in the Army and every single one of them was a POS.

You can thank Bill Clinton for that. In one of the greatest crimes against history he had much of the US stockpile of 1911's destroyed..... 

[h13man]

.45's produced during WWII were so mass produced that quality of the barrel bushing and slide fits was very loose and due to being so loose, probably avoided jams (speculation on my part) but I never had a .45 jam. These were meant to be "Jungle" close range/last defense weapons Our .45's today are better quality with very little design changes. My series Colt 80 was pretty much a "racing gun" out of the box. My S&W MP is still being broke in but shoots as accurate as the Colt did. Now I'm wanting a .308 1500 Howa and that should complete my firearms wants/needs.  

[3fan4life]

The Rock Ola (juke box company) M1 carbine is the 2d rarest of all (only 228,500) produced, but collector prices today run a ridiculous $1500-2500 (though they only cost $45 apiece to make).

They did that with M16's as well.

I've used M16's that were made by Matel.

[threevalks]

They did that with M16's as well.

I've used M16's that were made by Matel.
[/quote]

Mark, For years, I thought the same as you, but we are not quite right.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/m-16-made-mattel/

[Willow]

Mark, For years, I thought the same as you, but we are not quite right.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/m-16-made-mattel/

I've often wondered about the accuracy of Snopes' explanations.  I do accept their statement that Mattel didn't really make the M-16 (although it was commonly held in the sixties) but in the write up they stated the M-16 was a replacement for the M-1 Carbine.  It was a replacement for the M-14.

[RP#62]

I worked on a DC-3 once whose engines had Buick nameplates on them.  Evidently Buick made several R-1830s under license from P&W during the war.

-RP

[Serk]

Story time:

(Sorry, I got wordy)

I love 1911 .45's. I have.... a few...

I'd always wanted a WWII era matching numbers in decent shape, but wasn't willing to pay post-Clinton dollars for one.

One day while out riding the Valk shortly after the triplets were born I dropped by a small pawn shop in my smallish suburban city and noted they had one. I checked it out, 1943 Remington Rand, all numbers that I could see matched, had JUST enough wear on it to feel right if that makes sense. (I.E. It could have seen some action, but wasn't worn down to the nubs either.)

They had a fair price of $2500 on it.

They saw me drooling and knocked it down to $2400.

I just couldn't, but every time I was out for a ride I'd drop by and say hello to her again.

And every time they'd knock another $100 off the price. It seems multi thousand dollar collector's items just don't move well in small town pawn shops.

After a while of this they were down to I think $1500ish.... I walked in and laid 12 $100 bills on the counter and said that was the best I could scrape up.

They accepted.

I was filling out the paperwork when I hear the door open.

Then my heart stopped....

"DADDDDYYY!!!!!!!!!" Kali squee'd.

"Hi hon! We were just driving by and saw your bike, figured we'd see if you want to go have lunch." started the spousal unit to say when she suddenly and abruptly halted mid sentence.

"........... you're...... you're buying something, aren't you."

Uhoh. I'm busted. Luckily she didn't see the pile of $100's.

"Yes dear, but I got a really good deal on it!"

The nice guy at the pawn shop wrote me two receipts, one real one and one with the decimal point moved one spot to the left.

(And for the record, I don't "hide" things from her directly, we've discussed this extensively, she just prefers not to know what I spend on guns or even how many "we" have.....)

I did take it out to the land once and shot it with some vintage WWII production ammo I've got, then thoroughly cleaned it (Especially since that ammo was likely corrosive) and leave it in the safe now, only coming out for a light oiling and lovingly oogling from time to time.

[Bighead]

1911 .45 ACP is one of my favorite hand guns.  Yep I have a few but none that are vintage. I shoot mine regularly. Went out and wasted many $ ( not a waste to me) on ammo yesterday. And will do it again this coming week. 

[Robert]

Feels like a Cadillac when you shoot it, a good stopper and reliable. Just big and heavy for a carry thats all.

[Bighead]

Feels like a Cadillac when you shoot it, a good stopper and reliable. Just big and heavy for a carry thats all.

Carry a commander model I do carry one sometimes but usually a smaller 9mm in a 1911 frame.
I love hammer fired and cant stand a striker fired handgun.  But that is just me.

[Serk]

Feels like a Cadillac when you shoot it, a good stopper and reliable. Just big and heavy for a carry thats all.

Brings a smile to the face of boys and girls of all ages.....



(This is one of my modern ones a Remington R1, not the vintage one.)

[Bighead]

I love it Serk teach em young and they will
Always know that it isnt the gun it is the idiot behind the trigger.

[Robert]

Serk,

I was about that young when I learned to shoot, it was a blast. I never knew that the school I went to had a shooting range in the basement, till I joined the shooting club (yea no cracks either it wasn't yesterday)    I had a great time it was a 22 rifle turned out to be a pretty good shot.

 My 1st cousin from Cali gave me a rifle and I cleaned it up and varnished the stock left the natural wood, it was really good looking.

 Glad you and the kids are having a good time, its a great pic 

When I was older learned combat shooting and really enjoyed.

Your a great dad, your adventures with your kids makes their lives and memories. 

Does the silencer make much of a difference, or do you do that for control?

[Jess from VA]

Mark, For years, I thought the same as you, but we are not quite right.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/m-16-made-mattel/

I've often wondered about the accuracy of Snopes' explanations.  I do accept their statement that Mattel didn't really make the M-16 (although it was commonly held in the sixties) but in the write up they stated the M-16 was a replacement for the M-1 Carbine.  It was a replacement for the M-14.

That is a glaringly ignorant mistake (replacement for the M1 carbine), and par for Snopes.

A series of technical changes sharply reduced (but never eliminated) the incidence of problems.

So it this, and just shows their predisposition against the rifle.  

The article says they came with no cleaning kits, and that's true.  And they needed to be cleaned (esp in SE Asia), but the article entirely fails to point out the principle problem with the rifle was it's govt contract ammunition.  Rifle ammo is all stick (smokeless) powder, and pistol is generally ball powder.  The wiz kid (Secretary of Defense) Robert McNamara secured a better price on ball powder and changed the called-for specification for stick powder.  He also found it cheaper to not chrome line the barrel (as called for by Stoner).  The ball powder was much dirtier than stick, and used full auto, the rifles quickly jammed.  And the non chrome barrels quickly corroded.  When they made the ammo right, and chrome lined the barrels the problems were solved, after proper cleaning materials were obtained and used.  There has never been a firearm that doesn't need cleaned.

The problems WERE eliminated with these remedies.  And this is why the M16/M4 are still the primary long gun of all US military forces (since 1964 - 56 years).

Snopes is prejudiced (or it's writers are), and only correct some of the time.  And any opinion they offer that approaches a political question can be expected to slant left.  Every time.

[3fan4life]

They did that with M16's as well.

I've used M16's that were made by Matel.

Mark, For years, I thought the same as you, but we are not quite right.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/m-16-made-mattel/
[/quote]


It's been a long time, but my memory swears that I've used some that had Mattel imprinted on the lower assembly and not just the grips.


Edit:

Seems that my rememberer isn't completely broken after all.

[3fan4life]

Mark, For years, I thought the same as you, but we are not quite right.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/m-16-made-mattel/

I've often wondered about the accuracy of Snopes' explanations.  I do accept their statement that Mattel didn't really make the M-16 (although it was commonly held in the sixties) but in the write up they stated the M-16 was a replacement for the M-1 Carbine.  It was a replacement for the M-14.

That is a glaringly ignorant mistake (replacement for the M1 carbine), and par for Snopes.

A series of technical changes sharply reduced (but never eliminated) the incidence of problems.

So it this, and just shows their predisposition against the rifle.  

The article says they came with no cleaning kits, and that's true.  And they needed to be cleaned (esp in SE Asia), but the article entirely fails to point out the principle problem with the rifle was it's govt contract ammunition.  Rifle ammo is all stick (smokeless) powder, and pistol is generally ball powder.  The wiz kid (Secretary of Defense) Robert McNamara secured a better price on ball powder and changed the called-for specification for stick powder.  He also found it cheaper to not chrome line the barrel (as called for by Stoner).  The ball powder was much dirtier than stick, and used full auto, the rifles quickly jammed.  And the non chrome barrels quickly corroded.  When they made the ammo right, and chrome lined the barrels the problems were solved, after proper cleaning materials were obtained and used.  There has never been a firearm that doesn't need cleaned.

The problems WERE eliminated with these remedies.  And this is why the M16/M4 are still the primary long gun of all US military forces (since 1964 - 56 years).

Snopes is prejudiced (or it's writers are), and only correct some of the time.  And any opinion they offer that approaches a political question can be expected to slant left.  Every time.

While I've fired many rounds through an M-16 I've never had to do so in combat.

I was taught not to use full auto and if you did to limit it to 3 round bursts for accuracy.

I never had one jam on me the few times that I did fire on full auto or shooting it in 3 round bursts.

It's a simple weapon to take apart and put back together.

A few years back one of my son's friends bought an AR15.

He didn't know much about it and asked me if I could show him how to disassemble it.

Even though I had not held one in my hands for nearly 20 years, I was able to disassemble and reassemble it for him easily.

Every Sargent who was a Vietnam Veteran that I ever served with was adamant about the need to keep the M-16 clean. 

[Jess from VA]

On active duty, I got to shoot one 20rd mag full auto at the finish of a day of training (as a favor).  I wanted to practice bursts, but the instructor handed it to me and said we would race to empty (for the entertainment of the rest of the class).  I could have done that all day.  I had my own 20" A2 HBar (semiauto) which I fired at that range many times.

Except for cops (and a few other specialists), I don't think anyone who gets basic rifle training in the Air Force for qualification purposes gets to shoot any full auto, even though we are using M16s.  You shoot standing, sitting, prone and barricade (and maybe lefty), at bulls eyes, slow, for score.  

To my knowledge, the Air Force is the only branch that exclusively uses/issues full auto M16s.  We never had any 3-burst weapons when I was in, and don't think they got them since.

[3fan4life]

On active duty, I got to shoot one 20rd mag full auto at the finish of a day of training (as a favor).  I wanted to practice bursts, but the instructor handed it to me and said we would race to empty (for the entertainment of the rest of the class).  I could have done that all day.  I had my own 20" A2 HBar (semiauto) which I fired at that range many times.

Except for cops (and a few other specialists), I don't think anyone who gets basic rifle training in the Air Force for qualification purposes gets to shoot any full auto, even though we are using M16s.  You shoot standing, sitting, prone and barricade (and maybe lefty), at bulls eyes, slow, for score.  

To my knowledge, the Air Force is the only branch that exclusively uses/issues full auto M16s.  We never had any 3-burst weapons when I was in, and don't think they got them since.

Not sure that I've ever used one that had the 3 Round burst on the selector, seems that I do remember seeing them (the rememberer isn't as good as it used to be).

What we were taught in Basic Training (Army) was to self limit the weapon to 3 round bursts.

The theory was (and I believe it to be a sound one) that any more that 3 rounds and you were so far off of the target that you're just wasting ammo.

My son (Air Force) didn't get as much training on the M-16 in basic as I did.

As a matter of fact his friend that I showed how to disassemble and reassemble the AR-15 was one of his Air Force buddies.

Apparently, if they did show them how to do so there wasn't much emphasis placed on the training.

In the Army, We had to be able to take it apart and put it back together blindfolded.

Not sure that I could do that now.

But the fact that I was able to take one apart completely and put it back together in about 5 mins, after not having touched one for 20 years says that the training must've stuck.


You're right about full auto being fun.

I got the opportunity to fire a few hundred rounds through a 50 caliber machine gun once.

It definitely puts a smile on your face.


The most fun that I ever had was putting several cases of rounds through an M-203 Grenade launcher.

That's something that I would love to do again.

[..]

I found a good youtube video and stripped the .45.

Very clean inside. Very easy to do.

Finding a magazine for the Kessler will be like finding affordable chrome side covers

[Bighead]

I found a good youtube video and stripped the .45.

Very clean inside. Very easy to do.

Finding a magazine for the Kessler will be like finding affordable chrome side covers

Here you go Paul.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/472130

[..]

I found a good youtube video and stripped the .45.

Very clean inside. Very easy to do.

Finding a magazine for the Kessler will be like finding affordable chrome side covers

Here you go Paul.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/472130

Thanks but for a 2 shot that's pricey.

[Bighead]

All I found were two Shot. Evidently that was what the stock
Magazine was?
Same web site had a used on for $19 but it had sold.

[..]

All I found were two Shot. Evidently that was what the stock
Magazine was?
Same web site had a used on for $19 but it had sold.

Thanks.

Using youtube I saw a couple of videos showing a single shell being inserted and then the bolt being closed and the gun fired. Guess that's what we'll be doing with it.

It's going to be just for fun so don't really need the magazine.

[Jess from VA]

The theory was (and I believe it to be a sound one) that any more that 3 rounds and you were so far off of the target that you're just wasting ammo.

The rounds spent per kill in RVN bore that out (est, 50,000).  Though discussion of that figure fails to include consideration that the Cong/NVA were often spraying just as many back at them with AK47s.

And if being overrun by numbers, or clearing rooms house to house in Fallujah, it's hard to fault men trying to stay alive.  Although it seems that completely running out of ammo in Indian country is a very bad idea.

Aside from special operators from all services, only the Corps and Army have infantry.  Air Force ground defense guys have always been prepared to spray at will any groups attacking our expensive aircraft sitting on the ground.  (and I once got to be an unwilling training dummy when I found myself out along a flight-line with no line badge; which my boss found hilarious)  (Don't shoot, I'm on your side; and wearing the same uniform).

And it was Gen Curtis Lemay who first ordered M16s with just that in mind.  

Also, the Air Force traditionally for many hears divided it's cops into Law Enforcement (policeman and criminal investigators) and Security Specialists (guards, ground defense, essentially USAF infantry), but I have heard that they have recently done away with that division of labor.  Which is hard to understand.

[scooperhsd]

Also, the Air Force traditionally for many hears divided it's cops into Law Enforcement (policeman and criminal investigators) and Security Specialists (guards, ground defense, essentially USAF infantry), but I have heard that they have recently done away with that division of labor.  Which is hard to understand.

Actually, I can sort of see putting them both into the same general MOS code. Train everyone to be able to do both jobs, and assign a bigger pool to the billet. Have them not do the same job from tour to tour - get good in both, AND provide change of duty to keep them fresh by doing something different.

[Jess from VA]

Also, the Air Force traditionally for many hears divided it's cops into Law Enforcement (policeman and criminal investigators) and Security Specialists (guards, ground defense, essentially USAF infantry), but I have heard that they have recently done away with that division of labor.  Which is hard to understand.

Actually, I can sort of see putting them both into the same general MOS code. Train everyone to be able to do both jobs, and assign a bigger pool to the billet. Have them not do the same job from tour to tour - get good in both, AND provide change of duty to keep them fresh by doing something different.

I think of this as dumbing down the Cops.  A lot of guys want to sign up to be policeman and criminal investigators, not to be infantry (and guard aircraft on the flight-line in Minot ND in winter).  I think a lot of smart young men would decide to look elsewhere for an Air Force career.

On the other hand, look at the militarization of US policemen, everywhere.   

[..]

Stamped on the right side of the Remington Rand .45 is R OO963.

On the ejector port is stamped 7791193

I can't find any info about date of manufacture online.

[Jess from VA]

Did you look at the links in my 4th reply in this thread Paul?

It may be a parts gun.  Even (still) in military service, firearms were often rebuilt using available parts (refurbishment).  Several of my US rifles are arsenal refurbished.  Not as collectible as perfect matching numbers, but damn good shooters nonetheless. 

While you may never find specifics, you can probably narrow it down some.

As I said above, be careful of the main recoil spring (before shooting).  It's entirely possible the one in there is 50 years old (of course they have no serial numbers).  It would not cause catastrophe, but can cause a lot of battering of an old firearm.  The standard factory spring for full size 45ACP 1911 pistol is 16 pounds.   https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911%20GOV%27T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1

[..]

Did you look at the links in my 4th reply in this thread Paul?

It may be a parts gun.  Even (still) in military service, firearms were often rebuilt using available parts (refurbishment).  Several of my US rifles are arsenal refurbished.  Not as collectible as perfect matching numbers, but damn good shooters nonetheless. 

While you may never find specifics, you can probably narrow it down some.

As I said above, be careful of the main recoil spring (before shooting).  It's entirely possible the one in there is 50 years old (of course they have no serial numbers).  It would not cause catastrophe, but can cause a lot of battering of an old firearm.  The standard factory spring for full size 45ACP 1911 pistol is 16 pounds.   https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911%20GOV%27T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1

The R before the number shows it is a refurb.

[3fan4life]

The theory was (and I believe it to be a sound one) that any more that 3 rounds and you were so far off of the target that you're just wasting ammo.

The rounds spent per kill in RVN bore that out (est, 50,000).  Though discussion of that figure fails to include consideration that the Cong/NVA were often spraying just as many back at them with AK47s.

Remember the "Grease" Guns?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun


These things weren't accurate at all.

Their purpose was to spray enough lead into the air to keep the enemy pinned down, not necessarily hit them.

It's hard to raise up and shoot back when rounds are zipping through the air all around you.

And if being overrun by numbers, or clearing rooms house to house in Fallujah, it's hard to fault men trying to stay alive.  Although it seems that completely running out of ammo in Indian country is a very bad idea.

A tough situation for sure.

My thought process is that ammo conservation should still be a priority.

Semi auto mode and double tapping works pretty good.

This is a scenario where the M-4's serve our guys pretty well.

Aside from special operators from all services, only the Corps and Army have infantry.  Air Force ground defense guys have always been prepared to spray at will any groups attacking our expensive aircraft sitting on the ground.  (and I once got to be an unwilling training dummy when I found myself out along a flight-line with no line badge; which my boss found hilarious)  (Don't shoot, I'm on your side; and wearing the same uniform).

And it was Gen Curtis Lemay who first ordered M16s with just that in mind.

 

That's interesting.

[Jess from VA]

Yeah I remember the grease gun.

I want them to roll the old laws back and let me buy a Grease gun, a Thompson, a select fire M14, a BAR, and an M249 SAW with no stupid tax stamps and federal interference and lists.

The ammo purchase alone will stimulate the economy. 

Though I'm going to have to wait awhile for the prices to come down after deregulation.