Well, back together after carb rebuild, but.....

[John Schmidt]

Entire left bank is cold. Pulled the plugs...no effect. Taking a break at the moment but will see if that side is getting any fuel. It fired right up after waiting a few second for the carbs to fill, but the problem was immediate. Any other suggestions?

Just checked and bowls are full. How can one entire side not fire, they all share a coil with the right side and it's firing. Left exhaust is cold...weird, cuz it was running fine before the tear down. Can the sync be off far enough to cause it not to fire, don't see how that's possible. And, all the pilots are set at 2 1/4 turns out. I swear...if I have to pull everything again I'm tempted to leave it alone and go shopping for an F6b. Would one of the trigger pickups suddenly going bad cause this, don't see how that's possible either restricted to the entire left bank. Hope somebody has some ideas, I sure don't. I even used a long insulated hose pliers to wiggle and push in the associated cables from the coils....no effect. Tomorrow I'll bull the left engine hanger so I can get a clear view of the ignition cables. I'll double check with a spark plug in the morning to see if there's spark but possibly real weak.

[da prez]

Fuel on and open the drains. If stock petcock , use a vacuum pump.

       da prez

[98valk]

check plug wires of coil to plugs are in correct order. check that two wire connectors to the coils are in correct order.  make sure plug wires didn't pull out from the coil connection.

[indybobm]

Have you synced the carbs yet? Try increasing the idle to around 1800 and pull the plug wires again on the left side. Make a difference now?

[John Schmidt]

I tried using my old Twinmax to sync the carbs to no avail. Today I'm going to give it another try with the vacuum gauges I used to sync the GL1200 I rebuilt some time back. With that I can do one side at a time & possibly one of the other side since it has four gauges in the kit. I'm still inclined to think it's a spark issue but just checking the easy stuff first.

Barring any success with the current set of carbs installed, if that fails then my plans are to use my original set and transfer all the new jets, float valves, fuel rails, etc. to it and reinstall them. Here's hoping I don't have to do that but I'm running out of both patience and time.

[JimC]

John,
The Wisconsin group owns a digisync tool.
 
Since you are now a member of this prestigious group, I am sure no one would object to you using it.  It is in my garage, and it just so happens that we are having a get together here on Tuesday evening.

I know it is a long haul, (about 1.5 hours if I remember correctly) but you are welcome to swing down and participate in the bench racing session. If you can not make it, give me a call and we can figure out a way to get the tool to you.
2six2.441O333

Jim

[John Schmidt]

Jim, that's quite a haul for me since I'd be returning after dark in unfamiliar territory. I'd like to meet up with you folks, will just have to decide the next day or so.

Re. the bike acting up, I spent part of the PM working on a few things, mainly the plug wires at the coils. The socket the wires sit in has a needle point in the base of the hole that penetrates the end of the cable. The cable in turn is held in place by a sort of compression fitting similar to that used on small copper tubing. Long story short...since they mostly felt a bit loose I pulled each one of #3 thru #5, trimmed the ends and reseated them. Those are the coils next to the petcock control and fire the above cylinders. That made a huge difference in the running, I have yet to do #1 & #2 up under the tank....maybe tomorrow. Next, I again tried using the Twinmax to sync but just doesn't do the trick satisfactorily so hooked up the gauges used to sync the 4 carbs on the 1200. The balance was way out in left field but after some jockying back & forth from rt. to left side two or three times it has smoothed out to almost normal. I'll raise the tank enough to service the front coil and it should almost be ready to ride. At least the left pipe is now getting really hot like the right side so I'm encouraged.

[JimC]

Good job John, I have thought about it since talking to you and I kept coming back to electrical, looks like we were on the right track.

Jim

[John Schmidt]

Good job John, I have thought about it since talking to you and I kept coming back to electrical, looks like we were on the right track.

Jim

The more I thought about it, it may have been my own doing. When I pull carbs on these bikes I remove the upper engine hangers to give more room so I don't have to mess with the air dam behind the fan. To remove the left side you have to undo the coil mount, leaving the coils sitting in the open. But to gain the space needed you need to push the coils back out of the way as well. What I found was 3 of the 4 plug wires I checked were loose in their sockets on the coils and not bottomed out...i.e., not making good contact inside the coil. As explained earlier, I did some trimming and reseated all but the wires for the front coil. Result...much inproved running. I think my pressing the coils back as far as possible caused the plug wires to become loose in their sockets on the coils. Like I said, I need to do the same with the front coil under the tank and put it all back together. Here's hoping! 

Sure would like to get hold of that Digisync, set the carbs and be done with it.

[98valk]

Good job John, I have thought about it since talking to you and I kept coming back to electrical, looks like we were on the right track.

Jim

The more I thought about it, it may have been my own doing. When I pull carbs on these bikes I remove the upper engine hangers to give more room so I don't have to mess with the air dam behind the fan. To remove the left side you have to undo the coil mount, leaving the coils sitting in the open. But to gain the space needed you need to push the coils back out of the way as well. What I found was 3 of the 4 plug wires I checked were loose in their sockets on the coils and not bottomed out...i.e., not making good contact inside the coil. As explained earlier, I did some trimming and reseated all but the wires for the front coil. Result...much inproved running. I think my pressing the coils back as far as possible caused the plug wires to become loose in their sockets on the coils. Like I said, I need to do the same with the front coil under the tank and put it all back together. Here's hoping! 

Sure would like to get hold of that Digisync, set the carbs and be done with it.

yep per manual engine supports are removed to remove carbs, and that was why I suggested to check the plug wire to coil connections. been there esp., since I'm running aftermarket plug wires.
glad it worked out for you.

[JimC]

John
The digisync is available when ever you need it. It doesn't take but 15 minutes to set it up and sync the carbs barring any other issues.
 
If you want to swing down after the bike is running, we can do that anytime you want to.
If you want to swing down Tuesday, you are welcome to stay here so you don't have to ride down and back.
I would offer to send it to you if it was only my tool. But it is not, and if for some reason it did not make it there or back due to mail, or ups, we would be out because they are no longer being made from what I understand.

Jim

[John Schmidt]

yep per manual engine supports are removed to remove carbs, and that was why I suggested to check the plug wire to coil connections. been there esp., since I'm running aftermarket plug wires.
glad it worked out for you.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, I'm also running aftermarket wires...7mm which is OEM size but stuff still happens regardless I guess.
Jim, if I make the run down Tuesday I'll use the car this time. I want to do this for a couple reasons, one is simply to continue to spend time with you guys. The other would be to "carry" the Digisync back rather than ship it. After making the trip down, it will give me an idea of the difficulty traveling unfamiliar roads after dark....will help me determine if I'll return or stay down there for the night. It's not like I'm traveling in the mountains with all kinds of twisties but as I've aged I've become a bit more cautious. 

[rug_burn]

It's funny-  because our bikes are all close to 20 years old, it appears this is the era of having to pull your carbs to rebuild them, or at least to have to replace the o-rings on the fuel rails...   
  I feel your pain...

[Bighead]

It's funny-  because our bikes are all close to 20 years old, it appears this is the era of having to pull your carbs to rebuild them, or at least to have to replace the o-rings on the fuel rails...   
  I feel your pain...

Not yet and mine is 23

[98valk]

the o-rings are Buna-N aka Nitrile. The main thing that would make them deteriorate is sunlight and ozone. being sealed as they are they are not exposed to either.

the end nuts of the thru bolts of each carb bank can become loose, which allows leakage.

had some leakage about 10 yrs ago at one forward carb, I checked those nuts and found then slightly loose. I tightened them up, only took 1/8-1/4 turn and I put some silicone on the end nuts and the exposed threads.

Zero Leakage since that time.

my twocents.

[rug_burn]

As to why one entire side of the engine is not firing, I know on my Valk, a '97, when it sat too long and the fuel went bad, the entire right side got gunked up far worse then the left side, and has been the problematic side. 
      I think because those carbs were higher, as the bike sits on its kickstand, they must have dried out first as the fuel level in the carb rack slowly lowered by evaporation.  I think I got back and caught the problem before this happened to the left bank.    Maybe if the left side had gotten close to drying out it would have been even worse as the fuel residue would have been more concentrated.
     In my case, I had to scratch a varnish-like deposit off the needles, clean out the main jets with a drill bit, and replace all the low speed jets, several of which were plugged solid.

[Joe m]

I just went through The same thing with my bike took it out of storage and all three cylinders on the left side weren’t firing took the carburetors off did a quick cleaning job because they weren’t dirty at all inside put them back on and had the same problem ended up taking them back off separating them all changing all the old rings letting them soak in some good carb clean put it all back together and now it runs like a top again I never would’ve believed all three carburetors on the left side would have caused that problem but it did and I always store the the bike with aviation fuel so it really had me stumped.

[studlly 64]

I just went through The same thing with my bike took it out of storage and all three cylinders on the left side weren’t firing took the carburetors off did a quick cleaning job because they weren’t dirty at all inside put them back on and had the same problem ended up taking them back off separating them all changing all the old rings letting them soak in some good carb clean put it all back together and now it runs like a top again I never would’ve believed all three carburetors on the left side would have caused that problem but it did and I always store the the bike with aviation fuel so it really had me stumped.

had the same problem with two cylinders not firing after the bike sat for 2 years. Had  sparks and carbs were full. pulled the carbs, slow jets were clogged, cleaned them well and blow some air compressor well through them, those suckers have a very tiny holes, you want to make sure you can see some light coming through them!!
if i can do it you can, I just used my knowledge from working on small engines and followed some great advise form the boys and girls on this forum!.