The case of Ahmaud Arbery

[Savago]

Couldn't find a thread on the subject, so I'm posting here.

There is a good timeline and legal analysis on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxhIL2iMdM8

[bscrive]

The case was totally bungled from the start.  The father and son had no right to pursue him, but took it on them selves to be judge, jury and executioner.  They should have left him alone and let the police handle it, even though, the police there are inept.  For their stupidity, they will probably spend the rest of their lives in jail.

Robert,
Give your head a shake.  Savago has said many times that he thinks that the peaceful protesters should be left alone and the looters jailed.  I just don't think that you want to see that.

The only thing really destroying your country is Trump.  I hope you get to like old Joe, because he is coming in November to be your President.

[baldo]

The case was totally bungled from the start.  The father and son had no right to pursue him, but took it on them selves to be judge, jury and executioner.  They should have left him alone and let the police handle it, even though, the police there are inept.  For their stupidity, they will probably spend the rest of their lives in jail.

Robert,
Give your head a shake.  Savago has said many times that he thinks that the peaceful protesters should be left alone and the looters jailed.  I just don't think that you want to see that.

The only thing really destroying your country is Trump.  I hope you get to like old Joe, because he is coming in November to be your President.

You'd better be careful with your predictions, scrive. If the Electoral College saves his ass again, you'll NEVER hear the end of it.

[Moonshot_1]

The case was totally bungled from the start.  The father and son had no right to pursue him, but took it on them selves to be judge, jury and executioner.  They should have left him alone and let the police handle it, even though, the police there are inept.  For their stupidity, they will probably spend the rest of their lives in jail.

Robert,
Give your head a shake.  Savago has said many times that he thinks that the peaceful protesters should be left alone and the looters jailed.  I just don't think that you want to see that.

The only thing really destroying your country is Trump.  I hope you get to like old Joe, because he is coming in November to be your President.

Well, you better tell old Joe that. He thinks he's running for Senator. Probably thinks he's Canadian too. Would explain a lot....

[Robert]

To the three,

  What about the corruption that has gone on? What about the fake Russia investigation, leading to the impeachment, leading to stopping a sitting president from doing his duty. What about the Anthony Weiner laptop, the death of Jeffrey Epstein, Joe Biden and his son and so many more.

Your expression of hate for this president and your posts on the Floyd case compared to your passion for pursueing those that have done wrong in goverment is way different. It is along party lines and not the line of the laws of this country.

If we cannot agree that these situations need to be prosecuted even more so than the case of Ahmaud or Floyd then we really probably will never agree. I would actually say you need to go to the coutries like where Savago have come from and may be happy there, that is untill you learn like Savago has said many times what it trully means to come from one of those countries.

It is the unbiased pursuit of these laws above party lines and above social and economic status that have made this country great and given an equal basis for men to be free and feel at peace.

It is this very unbiased application of the law that is written the right of revolution  is the right or duty of the people of a nation to overthrow a government that acts against their common interests and/or threatens the safety of the people without cause. It is this that allows these protesters to peacefully demonstrate, yet beckons all to remove an unjust goverment.

The fact that it is the Dems cities that these violent protests have happened says volumes. It was not put down fast, it was allowed to go on with stand down orders.

A Blind lady justice is that way for a reason, I dont think any of you have the same willingness to pursue corruption at all levels rather than badmouth a president as witnessed the volume of your posts and the tone you set.

Maybe this is exactly what you dont see with Trump supporters, the fact that most dont want goverment as usual and want the prosecution for the crimes committed on the same level that would be applied for you and me. Most can look beyond the gruff exterior of Trump in knowing he is eliminating the corruption of the past presidents that many dont see.

You bleed for Floyd and Ahmaud yet forget the country.

[Robert]

Former Obama Intelligence Official Helps Secure Bail for Molotov Cocktail-Throwing NYC Lawyer

A former Obama administration intelligence official who worked in both the Departments of State and Defense has guaranteed bail for a human rights lawyer accused of firebombing a police vehicle in New York City.

The former official, Salmah Rizvi, told a judge the alleged firebomber is her “best friend.” Rizvi, now an attorney at the D.C.-based law firm Ropes & Gray, helped secure the release of fellow lawyer Urooj Rahman by agreeing to be a suretor for her bail. That means Rizvi is liable for the full cost of the $250,000 bail if Rahman fails to obey the court’s orders.

Evidence presented by prosecutors included images of Rahman holding a Molotov cocktail in the passenger seat of a van that was later found to be full of the necessary materials for making the explosive devices.

U.S. District Judge Margo Brodie acknowledged the strong evidence against Rahman, who was also accused of distributing the incendiary devices to other rioters, but agreed to grant her bail due to the "willingness of family and friends to sign on as suretors," according to a report from Law360.


Timothy O’Donnell, disguised in a Joker mask but easily identifiable from a neck tattoo, set fire to a Chicago Police SUV in the Loop on Saturday and now faces federal charges for the damage, according to a criminal complaint released Tuesday.


‘Retribution’: Chinese State Media Calls Violent U.S. Protests A ‘Beautiful Sight’

I know you will be outraged at these articles as much as you are outraged over Trump being our president, since doing so would show a consistancy and caring about the decency, fairness and laws of our country.

[Alberta Patriot]

Just a plain and simple honest answer would be good...what the hell is the purpose of posting this thread?
Do you see racism around every corner and by extension among the members here?

I have a much different view of the many places that I have visited in your country.
If all you see is racism everywhere you look, maybe you are part of the problem.

The communities most racked by poverty, failed education systems, a preponderance of fatherless families and gun violence are run by Democrats...does that make Democrats racist...I don't know, do you?

[bscrive]

Just a plain and simple honest answer would be good...what the hell is the purpose of posting this thread?
Do you see racism around every corner and by extension among the members here?

I have a much different view of the many places that I have visited in your country.
If all you see is racism everywhere you look, maybe you are part of the problem.

Savago is from South America, I believe, so he would be a visible minority.  I would assume that he would encounter racism where as you as a white male do not.  Maybe you have, but it would never be to the extent as him.  That is why you have a different view.  Calling out racism is not the problem, it is those that don't see it that are.

I, being a white male, (actually I am Metis, but you wouldn't know it) do see the racism is some of the members here in the way that they write things.  They don't come right out with it because they know that others will jump on them.  I won't give examples because I am not going to have an argument with them that they are not racist.  If they aren't, then they sure sound like it.
I have it in my own extended family and I don't bother with them.

[Alberta Patriot]

Again...I rest my case.

BTW...does visible minority mean "no white privilege", as in perpetual victim in your eyes?? Again...Part of the problem??

Solutions are never found by dragging up the past and pointing fingers everywhere especially without having a long look in the mirror first.

Reposting this here as well...she says a lot, especially living at ground zero...not some far distant privileged place like Ottawa:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=554&v=ItopNgRQiuY&feature=emb_logo&app=desktop

BTW, if you are feeling overly "white privileged" give up your job to a visible minority... according to you, you didn't deserve it in the first place.

[Serk]

Calling out racism is not the problem, it is those that don't see it that are.

How deep into bizarro world have we gotten where not being racist is racist and being racist isn't.....

[Alberta Patriot]

Calling out racism is not the problem, it is those that don't see it that are.

How deep into bizarro world have we gotten where not being racist is racist and being racist isn't.....

Responding to any of this crap is an exercise in futility, but I can't help myself at times. People see what they want to see, and if that's racism everywhere you look?.............

[Psychotic Bovine]

Calling out racism is not the problem, it is those that don't see it that are.

How deep into bizarro world have we gotten where not being racist is racist and being racist isn't.....

Responding to any of this crap is an exercise in futility, but I can't help myself at times. People see what they want to see, and if that's racism everywhere you look?.............

This is the way I see it: The true racists are the ones on the left. Malcolm X certainly thought so.

""The white Liberal differs from the white Conservative only in one way; the Liberal is more deceitful, more hypocritical, than the Conservative. Both want power, but the White Liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor and by winning the friendship and support of the Negro, the White Liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or a weapon in this political football game, that is constantly raging, between the White Liberals and the White Conservatives. The American Negro is nothing, but a political football."

[..]

If all you see is racism everywhere you look, maybe you are part of the problem.

I have it in my own extended family and I don't bother with them.

Shame you don't apply the same here.

[Alpha Dog]

Calling out racism is not the problem, it is those that don't see it that are.

How deep into bizarro world have we gotten where not being racist is racist and being racist isn't.....

Responding to any of this crap is an exercise in futility, but I can't help myself at times. People see what they want to see, and if that's racism everywhere you look?.............

This is the way I see it: The true racists are the ones on the left. Malcolm X certainly thought so.

""The white Liberal differs from the white Conservative only in one way; the Liberal is more deceitful, more hypocritical, than the Conservative. Both want power, but the White Liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor and by winning the friendship and support of the Negro, the White Liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or a weapon in this political football game, that is constantly raging, between the White Liberals and the White Conservatives. The American Negro is nothing, but a political football."

Seems an elderly black gentleman that was one of the original civil rights activist agrees with you to some degree Mr. Bovine.  I watched this a couple nights back and at the end just said Wow.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/other/civil-rights-activist-bob-woodson-responds-to-riots-race-is-being-used-as-a-ruse/vi-BB14Wrxe

[Psychotic Bovine]

Calling out racism is not the problem, it is those that don't see it that are.

How deep into bizarro world have we gotten where not being racist is racist and being racist isn't.....

Responding to any of this crap is an exercise in futility, but I can't help myself at times. People see what they want to see, and if that's racism everywhere you look?.............

This is the way I see it: The true racists are the ones on the left. Malcolm X certainly thought so.

""The white Liberal differs from the white Conservative only in one way; the Liberal is more deceitful, more hypocritical, than the Conservative. Both want power, but the White Liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor and by winning the friendship and support of the Negro, the White Liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or a weapon in this political football game, that is constantly raging, between the White Liberals and the White Conservatives. The American Negro is nothing, but a political football."

Seems an elderly black gentleman that was one of the original civil rights activist agrees with you to some degree Mr. Bovine.  I watched this a couple nights back and at the end just said Wow.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/other/civil-rights-activist-bob-woodson-responds-to-riots-race-is-being-used-as-a-ruse/vi-BB14Wrxe

Alphonzo Rachel, a black conservative commentator, has said similar things, too.

[Robert]

Just a plain and simple honest answer would be good...what the hell is the purpose of posting this thread?
Do you see racism around every corner and by extension among the members here?

I have a much different view of the many places that I have visited in your country.
If all you see is racism everywhere you look, maybe you are part of the problem.

Savago is from South America, I believe, so he would be a visible minority.  I would assume that he would encounter racism where as you as a white male do not.  Maybe you have, but it would never be to the extent as him.  That is why you have a different view.  Calling out racism is not the problem, it is those that don't see it that are.

You are right and wrong with this assumption, wrong that white males do not encounter racism and right that its those that dont see it.

Justice has been done in both cases, this is beyond peaceful demonstrations and has a basis in corruption. NO one would object to peacefull demonstrations. But destruction of property and Savago advocating racism as the problem you from another country, Savago from another background is a problem. You let emotion and hate of a president cloud judgement in what it would really take to effect change.

Go to the streets, march till your hearts content but leave the big screen tv's alone. Also address and advocate for the rule of law. The very laws that have the perps in jail and in trouble now.

Really, I MEAN REALLY?

Missouri AG Says Local Prosecutor Released Every Person Arrested For Rioting And Looting In St. Louis

I wonder what yours and Savago's response will be now that justice has NOT been served.

[Serk]

[Robert]

 INFILTRATED ANTIFA

“Practice things like an eye gouge. It takes very little pressure to injure someone’s eyes.”

“It’s not boxing, it’s not kickboxing, it’s like destroying your enemy.”


https://twitter.com/i/status/1268527969586360320

Establish a rule of law, stand behind those that want it and then feel free to demonstate and everyone can feel safe to do so. STOP the bleeding hearts and the favoritism, most I know only want a level playing field and those that talk against a system and president that is trying to do that is part of the problem.

Dem AG: Yes, America Is Burning, But That’s How Forests Grow

Morally and ethically I cannot feel good about the destruction of property or any scnario that is not a direct threat to me or someones immediate saftey. Violence at the excuse of a protest over one death is very questionable and morally and ethically reprehensible. To not see this and try to prove a point or make a pointed suggestion boarders on insanity. Breeding chaos in order to get a point across is anarchy.

[Savago]

@Robert: the case of Ahmaud Arbery has a different dynamic and legal repercussions than George Floyd. I thinks it deserves to be discussed on its own (and so is the case of Breonna Taylor).

The legal aspect is particularly interesting, because it deals with the use of firearms by civilians. I have been studying the subject (i.e. gun law and use of lethal force) ever since I started practicing shooting because 'with great powers comes great responsibility'.

There are lots of misconceptions and wrong understanding of the law by both regular citizens as also police officers when it comes to the use of lethal force. I don't claim to be an authority on the matter, but I believe that is an interesting subject.

That same goes for racial issues: it is an important subject and should be openly discussed.

Keep in mind that *not* discussing the subject won't help the society to improve. The fact that we are discussing the matter doesn't imply that someone is calling the other racist.

On the other hand, *not* being willing to discuss the subject doesn't help the society to improve.

One of the things that I most admired in the USA is the 'rule of the law', where no one is above the law.

I said before and time again that I oppose looters and hope they will face the consequences and have to pay for the losses.

I also oppose needless use of force by the police.

You can do both (i.e. oppose looters, point to excess by the agents of the State) at same time.

How you managed to insert Trump into the case of Ahmaud Arbery is beyond my understanding. If you feel that Trump is a victim, open a thread on the subject.

@bscrive: it is a bit of paradox, but I have been treated with more respect in the USA than I had my whole life in Brazil. I have been asked if I was from pretty much any country*, people generally never guess Brazil. The main factors, I believe are due to:

- Americans in general are really nice people.
- This is a nation with laws.
- My status (i.e. according to the government, I'm an 'alien with extraordinary skills') plus high wage certainly helps.
- My looks are not what people typically associate with South America.

* In Berlin (Germany), an old german lady asked if I was British. In Bristol (UK), an old gentleman asked if I was German. In Santa Cruz (CA), a coffee shop barista asked if I was Argentinian (*urgh*!). In San Francisco (CA), I was asked if I was Italian. In Seoul (Korea), I was asked if I was Russian.

@Serk: the meme is funny, but if you really want to understand how a man feels, you got walk a mile with his boots. If you can't, be willing to listen to the other side.

[Jess from VA]

In Berlin (Germany), an old german lady asked if I was British. In Bristol (UK), an old gentleman asked if I was German. In Santa Cruz (CA), a coffee shop barista asked if I was Argentinian (*urgh*!). In San Francisco (CA), I was asked if I was Italian. In Seoul (Korea), I was asked if I was Russian.

That's pretty amusing.  So your looks (or more likely your language) made you a suspect foreigner, but they had no idea what flavor of suspect foreigner.   

In Turkey, my Angalo-ness, made everyone think I was German (because they have a long history of German financial, political and business connections). 

On the other hand, no Turks thought my blond haired blue eyed Turkish wife was Turkish.  So they routinely gave her the Turkish male huraah (hey baby, hot stuff), to which she replied in blistering fluent Turkish that had them removing their hats, bowing and apologizing.  Huraahing foreign women was fine, but not their own women. 

She's an American citizen (30 yrs) with the ability to read, write and speak English better than average Americans, but she will always have an accent.  So everyone here just assumes she is Heidi from Sweden (though Heidi was actually Swiss).

[scooperhsd]

In another place on this board, I made a comment that I have seen more BLACK RACISTS than white racists. I'll stand by that remark. If there are more white racists, most of them have been shamed into at least acting like they are not.

I'm not going to say I'm perfect. But I try to treat everybody the same way I would like to be treated, With respect and friendliness where it's appreciated. if I'm at a retail establishment and need help, I find an employee and wait for them to finish with the person they are currently helping before I ask them about my problem. I'm being respectful to both the employee and the person he is helping. If more people would do that, shopping would be alot more fun / pleasant to do.

Savago - been there/ done that. As a white naval officer in an organization that was about 90% + civil service, I was accused by the black secratary of one of my fellow officers of racists behaviour because I was using the PC assigned to her to do typing I needed to do, when she was not there / not using the computer. I did not mess up her work, nor interfere with her doing her job. Needless to say, her complaint was dismissed.

[Serk]

* In Berlin (Germany), an old german lady asked if I was British. In Bristol (UK), an old gentleman asked if I was German. In Santa Cruz (CA), a coffee shop barista asked if I was Argentinian (*urgh*!). In San Francisco (CA), I was asked if I was Italian. In Seoul (Korea), I was asked if I was Russian.

In the UK, Germany, the Soviet Union, Gabon, and South Africa I was extremely insulted by being asked if I was a Yankee.....

[Savago]

In the UK, Germany, the Soviet Union, Gabon, and South Africa I was extremely insulted by being asked if I was a Yankee.....

I imagine it would be similar to how I felt when asked if I was Argentinian...
 

[..]

* In Berlin (Germany), an old german lady asked if I was British. In Bristol (UK), an old gentleman asked if I was German. In Santa Cruz (CA), a coffee shop barista asked if I was Argentinian (*urgh*!). In San Francisco (CA), I was asked if I was Italian. In Seoul (Korea), I was asked if I was Russian.

In the UK, Germany, the Soviet Union, Gabon, and South Africa I was extremely insulted by being asked if I was a Yankee.....

Here I get asked if I'm. Australian, South African, Irish, or Welsh.

[Robert]

They ask me if Im from California,   

[Patrick]

The case was totally bungled from the start.  The father and son had no right to pursue him, but took it on them selves to be judge, jury and executioner.  They should have left him alone and let the police handle it, even though, the police there are inept.  For their stupidity, they will probably spend the rest of their lives in jail.

Robert,
Give your head a shake.  Savago has said many times that he thinks that the peaceful protesters should be left alone and the looters jailed.  I just don't think that you want to see that.

The only thing really destroying your country is Trump.  I hope you get to like old Joe, because he is coming in November to be your President.

You'd better be careful with your predictions, scrive. If the Electoral College saves his ass again, you'll NEVER hear the end of it.

There is a valid reason we have the electoral college and that it has worked well for about 240yrs.

[Robert]

This woman lost her sister to these “protesters”. Italia Marie Kelly, was a peaceful protester, protesting in Davenport, IA. Her life was taken by rioters. Hear Jasmine Kelly’s crying over her lost and know, this is what you (the rioters) did.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1267912142591627266

So what justice is for this woman?

[Jess from VA]

I'm rarely mistaken for a foreign born person. 

But I have several times been accused of being from some bygone century. 

I always take that as a compliment, though I don't think that was ever the intent. 

[Robert]

 

[brynm]

INFILTRATED ANTIFA

“Practice things like an eye gouge. It takes very little pressure to injure someone’s eyes.”

“It’s not boxing, it’s not kickboxing, it’s like destroying your enemy.”


https://twitter.com/i/status/1268527969586360320

Establish a rule of law, stand behind those that want it and then feel free to demonstate and everyone can feel safe to do so. STOP the bleeding hearts and the favoritism, most I know only want a level playing field and those that talk against a system and president that is trying to do that is part of the problem.

Dem AG: Yes, America Is Burning, But That’s How Forests Grow

Morally and ethically I cannot feel good about the destruction of property or any scnario that is not a direct threat to me or someones immediate saftey. Violence at the excuse of a protest over one death is very questionable and morally and ethically reprehensible. To not see this and try to prove a point or make a pointed suggestion boarders on insanity. Breeding chaos in order to get a point across is anarchy.

I'd be hesitant to use "Project Veritas" as a source for anything.  They've been caught using doctored and heavily edited videos to completely change what people have said before.

Doesn't help that this video where they've just infiltrated Antifa has a clip of them having a meeting in a bookstore.  Problem is that bookstore closed 2 years ago.

[RP#62]

When I lived in Miami, the Cubans used to ask me if I was Argentinian.  Evidently I speak Spanish with and Argentine accent.  My favorite though was a discussion we had when I was in high school.  The movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid had just come out and there was some controversy that the movie had racist overtones because the scenes in Bolivia made the Bolivians look stupid.  We had an Argentine exchange student in our class at the time so  we asked him what he thought about it and he said it didn't bother him - the Bolivians were stupid.  The teacher didn't know what to say.

-RP 

[cookiedough]

being down south once,  I was asked by southerners who definitely had a southern drawl if I was from WI having a WI accent.  Never knew Wisconsinities had an accent?   

being from a small rural midwest village, there are 2-3 black kids going to our very small school.  Personally,  the 99.9% white kids nowadays going to our school I firmly believe are not at all 'racist' to them as our older generation would have been to them.   Pretty sure those 2-3 black kids in our school get along just fine with all the white kids which some 30-40 years ago would not have happened.   Things are changing just takes many many decades to make slow changes.  Will racism ever end?  doubt it,  but over time it will lessen and lessen with each younger generation coming up.

This Arbery case the young black guy should not have died, but why do all those black young folks go around while on security cameras rummaging/walking around at night in that newly being built house?  How many white kids vs. black kids have been caught on that security camera in that constructed house?