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Author Topic: Mail in votes.  (Read 1491 times)
Jersey mike
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Brick,NJ


« on: August 22, 2020, 07:47:43 AM »

First I want to say I’m not intentionally open ending a new thread to circumvent the locked thread regarding mail in ballots. If moderator want to remove this, lock it or anything else by all means do so. This isn’t meant to stir the pot or cause controversy.


My wife asked me question regarding mail/ballots which was; when do mailed in ballots get counted? She was concerned that if ballots were received before November 3rd, would the tabulation begin and would there be leaks from tabulation locations regarding who is leading in votes.

So a web search led me to this site which some may find useful. This has a date of 7/9/2020

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-table-16-when-absentee-mail-ballot-processing-and-counting-can-begin.aspx


After reading through the process for each state 2 things stood out:

1) only one state declared it a Felony to releasing information early....Arizona

2) Maryland will not begin processing ballots until after the election AND will not begin counting until 8PM the Wednesday AFTER the election.

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0leman
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Posts: 2296


Klamath Falls, Or


« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2020, 08:35:51 AM »

Not sure about how other states will handle their mail in/absentee vote.  But Oregon, which has had mail in  only voting for over two decades, counts the votes after the close of election day.   They do take the security envelope out of the mail in envelope and check the signature when it it received.   If signature does not match the voter is notified and can come in to office to get the signature problem resolved.

wil be interesting to watch other states in a few months.
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Jersey mike
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Brick,NJ


« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2020, 04:16:14 AM »

This article lays out a good argument of why NJ Gov.Murphy is wrong in his decision to mandate vote by mail. Below is a portion.

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/08/democrat-phil-murphys-mail-in-mandate-is-profoundly-undemocratic-mulshine.html

“ I don’t know how many times I heard a politician warn about Donald Trump’s threat to “our democracy” at that Democratic Convention last week. Here’s a question I would like to put to each one of them:

If a politician can make a unilateral decision to dispense with the election code in his state prior to a hotly contested election, then what hope is there for our democracy?

That’s what Phil Murphy has done here in New Jersey with his decision to eliminate the traditional practice of machine voting and substitute a universal vote-by-mail system.”

As soon as that decision was announced, I heard from Mike Carroll, the former state assemblyman and constitutional scholar from Morris County. Carroll emailed me to say that the election code bans the use of the sort of “drop boxes” that would be available to receive ballots under Murphy’s plan:

“NJSA 19:63-4 provides that ‘No person shall serve as an authorized messenger or as a bearer for more than three qualified voters in an election,’” Carroll wrote.

It does indeed. Not only that, but the number of ballots the bearer can deposit was reduced from 10 to three as recently as 2015. That’s because prior election results had been reversed in court because of relatively small numbers of disputed votes. In a 2012 case involving a Republican freeholder primary, a candidate who won by a mere six votes had his win overturned in court because of disputed messenger ballots.

As for the practice of mailing out ballots to every voter, that conflicts with the next section of the code, which states “In the case of any election, the application for a mail-in ballot shall be made to the county clerk.”

Murphy’s Executive Order 177 suspends numerous other sections of the code as well. The ostensible reason is that the COVID-19 crisis makes it unsafe for people to vote in person.



And the article continues on.
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DIGGER
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2020, 05:36:28 AM »

If you can't trust your local Gov't to count accurate Covid 19 deaths ....
How can you trust them to accurately count mail in votes?
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Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2020, 08:53:58 AM »

Reference that previously locked thread about mail in ballots.  I started it.   coolsmiley

I've read through it multiple times and have yet to find a reason for it to have been locked.   Maybe I'm not seeing something or, maybe it was simply headed the wrong way.   I'm not bitching, the moderators can do what they wish, it's their forum and their rules, I just don't see what got the thread locked.  Since being officially crowned a PITA by Willow (who I have a great deal of respect for), I've tried to not cause any real drama but, this one confused me.

Rams
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Patrick
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2020, 09:19:53 AM »

Reference that previously locked thread about mail in ballots.  I started it.   coolsmiley

I've read through it multiple times and have yet to find a reason for it to have been locked.   Maybe I'm not seeing something or, maybe it was simply headed the wrong way.   I'm not bitching, the moderators can do what they wish, it's their forum and their rules, I just don't see what got the thread locked.  Since being officially crowned a PITA by Willow (who I have a great deal of respect for), I've tried to not cause any real drama but, this one confused me.

Rams





I don't think it was locked because of you. The discussion was really starting to change direction,,,,
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Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2020, 11:37:18 AM »

Reference that previously locked thread about mail in ballots.  I started it.   coolsmiley

I've read through it multiple times and have yet to find a reason for it to have been locked.   Maybe I'm not seeing something or, maybe it was simply headed the wrong way.   I'm not bitching, the moderators can do what they wish, it's their forum and their rules, I just don't see what got the thread locked.  Since being officially crowned a PITA by Willow (who I have a great deal of respect for), I've tried to not cause any real drama but, this one confused me.

Rams





I don't think it was locked because of you. The discussion was really starting to change direction,,,,

I didn't think it was due to my contributions and, I'm not challenging the decision, their house, their rules.   Maybe the "standard" is different.   Maybe some post got deleted and I didn't see it.   I was just interested to see how the poll worked out.

The vast majority that did vote were not in favor of mass mailings though.

Rams
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Jess from VA
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No VA


« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2020, 12:40:33 PM »

Today I have proof the US Postal service is screwy.

I received my first ever letter from Barack Obama and the DNC (addressed to me).

I have never been a member of the DNC or contributed to any D, or any D initiative, or subscribed to any D publication, propaganda or organization.  I have been a registered R for my adult life (and have contributed to all of the above).

Other than local mass mailers for local D elections, I have never ever received any mail from the DNC.

How does this happen?     Tongue

He asked for my personal reply, so I asked him to KMA (and removed my personal identifier).  The reply is postage-paid, so I hope he gets it. 

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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2020, 01:00:29 PM »

Today I have proof the US Postal service is screwy.

I received my first ever letter from Barack Obama and the DNC (addressed to me).

I have never been a member of the DNC or contributed to any D, or any D initiative, or subscribed to any D publication, propaganda or organization.  I have been a registered R for my adult life (and have contributed to all of the above).

Other than local mass mailers for local D elections, I have never ever received any mail from the DNC.

How does this happen?     Tongue

He asked for my personal reply, so I asked him to KMA (and removed my personal identifier).  The reply is postage-paid, so I hope he gets it. 


I'll have to fess up Jess. I signed you up.  Wink (I get stuff from both parties, and have never been part of either)
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dreamaker
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Harrison Township, Michigan


« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2020, 08:28:20 PM »

I don't see the problem, I take mine and hand deliver it to my Clerk's Office, and tell them I want to see who I hand it to, in case it disappears.
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Patrick
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Largo Florida


« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2020, 04:06:39 AM »

I don't see the problem, I take mine and hand deliver it to my Clerk's Office, and tell them I want to see who I hand it to, in case it disappears.




If it did disappear how would you know ?
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Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2020, 04:12:05 AM »

More than 500,000 mail ballots were rejected in the primaries. That could make the difference in battleground states this fall.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/more-than-500-000-mail-ballots-were-rejected-in-the-primaries-that-could-make-the-difference-in-battleground-states-this-fall/ar-BB18hUse?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds#image=BB18hUse_1|2

More than 534,000 mail ballots were rejected during primaries across 23 states this year — nearly a quarter in key battlegrounds for the fall — illustrating how missed delivery deadlines, inadvertent mistakes and uneven enforcement of the rules could disenfranchise voters and affect the outcome of the presidential election.

The rates of rejection, which in some states exceeded those of other recent elections, could make a difference in the fall if the White House contest is decided by a close margin, as it was in 2016, when Donald Trump won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by roughly 80,000 votes.

This year, according to a tally by The Washington Post, election officials in those three states tossed out more than 60,480 ballots just during primaries, which saw significantly lower voter turnout than what is expected in the general election. The rejection figures include ballots that arrived too late to be counted or were invalidated for another reason, including voter error.

The rates of rejection, which in some states exceeded those of other recent elections, could make a difference in the fall if the White House contest is decided by a close margin, as it was in 2016, when Donald Trump won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by roughly 80,000 votes.

This year, according to a tally by The Washington Post, election officials in those three states tossed out more than 60,480 ballots just during primaries, which saw significantly lower voter turnout than what is expected in the general election. The rejection figures include ballots that arrived too late to be counted or were invalidated for another reason, including voter error.

The stakes are high as the most chaotic presidential election in memory collides with a once-­in-a-century pandemic, which has led 20 states to expand or ease access to voting by mail as a public health measure.

Election experts said that the combination of the hotly contested White House race and millions of first-time mail voters could lead to a record number of ballot rejections and trigger a searing legal war over which are valid — and who is the ultimate victor.

“If the election is close, it doesn’t matter how well it was run — it will be a mess,” said Charles Stewart III, a political science professor at MIT who studies election data. “The two campaigns will be arguing over nonconforming ballots, which is going to run up against voters’ beliefs in fair play,” he said.

President Trump has already cast doubt on whether he will accept a loss to Democratic nominee Joe Biden and has repeatedly stoked unfounded fears about voting by mail. Top campaign advisers are also mapping out a post-election strategy centered in part on challenging mail ballots that do not have postmarks, as The Post previously reported.

Citing news coverage of rejected ballots last month, Trump called the situation “a mess” and predicted that the presidential race will be the “most rigged election in history.”
For Democrats and voting rights advocates, rejected ballots are a serious concern because they raise the potential for many people to be disenfranchised — not because they reflect widespread corruption or election tampering.

Both sides agree that the race for the White House could come down to a fight over which mail ballots are counted.

Democratic lawyers and election officials in more than three dozen states are now pushing to limit the reasons a ballot can be rejected, which studies have found tend to disproportionately invalidate ballots from younger voters and voters of color. Recent mail backlogs at the U.S. Postal Service have put additional weight behind efforts to count ballots that are postmarked by Election Day but arrive late, among the most common reason for rejections. While some states have changed their rules, others have not or are stuck in litigation.

The number of mail ballots rejected in 23 states in this year’s primaries outstrips the nearly 319,000 mail and absentee ballots that were thrown out nationwide in the 2016 general election. The number of tossed ballots four years ago amounted to 1 percent of the roughly 33.4 million mail ballots cast that fall, according to data from the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.

About 195 million Americans are now eligible to cast ballots by mail for the Nov. 3 election — at least 83 percent of voters, according to a Post tracker. Some states are poised to begin sending voters mail ballots for the fall elections as soon as next month.

But the ease of casting a ballot from home also means more opportunities for people to make mistakes in filling out the forms, or for mail problems to delay the ballots’ return to election officials.
“Any time you see a dramatic increase in participation in any kind of voting, what you also see come along with that is folks who are maybe new to that process, who aren’t incredibly clear on the rules,” said New Mexico Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver (D), president of the National Association of Secretaries of State.

The dramatic shift toward mail voting is also testing election systems around the country, magnifying antiquated state rules about ballot rejection and the lack of a process in many jurisdictions for voters to fix problems with their ballots.

Studies have found that votes cast by mail, a process that involves several steps and more opportunity for error, are more likely to be rejected than those cast in person at polling locations.
This year, New York emerged as a cautionary tale after problems with absentee ballots plunged two congressional races into chaos for six weeks before winners were declared. In the 12th Congressional District, Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney (D) beat two-time challenger Suraj Patel by about 3,700 votes. Roughly 13,000 ballots were declared invalid in the race, many with missing or late postmarks.
The record use of mail balloting this year around the country has meant that many Americans are grappling for the first time with the idea that their vote didn’t count.

Among them was Philadelphia resident Stephanie Fusco, 26, who got a notice in June that the ballot she cast in Pennsylvania’s presidential primary that month for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) was rejected. The reason given: Election workers “could not obtain” her required signature from the ballot. “I was absolutely irate when it happened,” said Fusco, who worked as a medical technologist until she was furloughed because of the pandemic. “I did everything well before the deadline, and I know that I signed it. I signed it on the little box on the envelope.”

'Voters could be disenfranchised'

Overall, The Post found 534,731 ballots were disqualified in 23 states in the 2020 primary season. A similar analysis by NPR tracked 558,032 ballots that were rejected in 30 states. A large share of the rejected ballots tracked by The Post were in just two jurisdictions: California, which threw out more than 102,000, and New York City, which tossed more than 84,000.

In eight battleground states, more than 125,100 ballots were rejected by election officials in this year’s primaries, according to data compiled by The Post. The states were Florida, Maine, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

The Post totals include the number of ballots rejected in a primary held in each state this year, including several that took place before the novel coronavirus emerged as a serious concern in the United States. The figures almost certainly understate the number of rejections for several reasons, including failures by some counties to report their data.

Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson (D) predicted that the number of rejected ballots in her state could double in November compared with this month’s primary, when 10,694 votes were disqualified. Trump won Michigan by 10,704 votes in 2016.

About 6,400 of the ballots thrown out this month arrived by mail after Election Day, the state’s deadline for receipt, amid reports of Postal Service backlogs in the state.

Testifying Friday before a Senate panel, Postmaster General Louis DeJoy called the swift handling of election mail his “sacred duty” and promised that ballots would be delivered in time for counting around the country.

“The Postal Service will deliver every ballot and process every ballot in time that it receives,” he said.
Benson has called on the legislature to amend the law to allow such votes to count in November if they are postmarked by Election Day, even if they arrive up to two days later.

“If that doesn’t change and if there are no other changes, we’re facing a scenario where we could have to reject a number of otherwise valid votes sent through the mail that are delayed through no fault of the voter, because of the Postal Service or some other snafu,” she said last week on a call with voting rights activists. “So those voters could be disenfranchised, and that number could exceed the margin of victory for a number of races, statewide and local.”

Trump has already leveled attacks on Benson, accusing her of creating opportunities for voter fraud by sending absentee ballot applications to all registered voters before the primary.
Benson said she anticipates “significant challenges, particularly in Michigan, to the result of the election and the sanctity of the process” in November.

“We’re prepared to fight to ensure the public can have confidence that the results for our elections, whatever they may be, are an accurate reflection of the will of the people,” she said.
The possibility that millions of Americans could be voting by mail for the first time is likely to exacerbate confusion this year.

Daniel A. Smith, a political science professor at the University of Florida, has found that Floridians who cast ballots in person in the 2016 and 2018 general elections were twice as likely to have their mail ballots rejected in the 2020 presidential primaries than those who voted by mail in the two prior contests.

“Experience matters,” he said of the mail voting process. “So we can apply that across the country — if you lack experience voting by mail, the odds of you casting a ballot that doesn’t count will go up.”
“We’re going to see those [rejection] rates skyrocket even more” in November, he said.
Smith’s research also found that ballot rejections can disproportionately affect younger voters and voters of color.

In Florida, where mail ballots were rejected at a rate of a little more than 1 percent in the 2016 and 2018 general elections, the rate of rejection for ballots cast by 18- to 21-year-olds was more than eight times greater than for voters older than 65, he said. Similarly, the absentee ballots of Black and Hispanic voters were more than twice as likely to be rejected as those of White voters, his research shows.

Such disparities exist around the country. In Michigan, Benson noted recently that Black, Brown and Asian American communities in the state see higher rates of ballot rejection.
“We need to educate about how to ensure that those votes are counted,” she said.

Trying to keep rejections low

Reasons for rejection vary across the country. The failure to provide a signature or to return the ballot on time tend to be the most common problems, according to state data.
“A lot of people don’t follow instructions,” said Gerry Cohen, a member of the Wake County Board of Elections in North Carolina, which reviews every problematic ballot to determine whether it is valid.
In this year’s primary, “one voter sent in his ballot and it was rejected because he hadn’t signed it at all,” he said, adding that a new ballot was sent the next business day. “He returned his new ballot four days later and didn’t sign it, either.”

Voters are often not familiar with all the rules for completing mail ballots — or the unintentional errors that can disqualify them, such as a stray mark by a voter’s pen. In Kentucky, tearing off a perforated flap on the inner ballot envelope means your vote won’t count. In Wisconsin, a tiny tear in the envelope itself can invalidate the ballot, even if it is repaired by tape.
Stewart said many rules stem from 19th-century concerns about vote-buying and other types of fraud.

Some states add another layer of protection against voter fraud by requiring that the signature on the ballot envelope match the voter’s signature on file with the government. While the practice is widely accepted and employed by states such as Colorado and Washington that offer universal mail voting, lawsuits have claimed that uneven training and enforcement in some jurisdictions can lead to false ballot rejections.

In at least 20 states, voters must be notified and given the chance to fix or “cure” signature problems that could invalidate their ballots. But the rules vary in the rest of the country, and some voters are never told that their ballots did not count.

Requiring ballots returned through the mail to carry a postmark with the date is another safeguard, used to prevent ballots from being counted after the deadline. But the Postal Service is not required to postmark every piece of mail, creating problems for election officials who receive ballots without an official date stamp.

Democrats and voting rights groups are now waging court battles to ensure that absentee ballots are not discarded on technicalities, pushing to require that ballots postmarked by Election Day be counted and to make signature-matching laws more voter-friendly. In response to litigation, both Minnesota and Pennsylvania agreed this month to count ballots postmarked by Election Day and received within a certain window. And in Indiana, a federal judge ruled that election officials cannot reject ballots for dissimilar signatures without notifying voters.

Republicans have countered with their own litigation, arguing that strict signature-matching rules and voter identification requirements are necessary to prevent fraud. They have opposed Election Day postmark rules, claiming they result in invalid, late-cast ballots being counted.

“Overhauling the way Americans vote less than 80 days out will only spread chaos and confusion,” Republican National Committee spokeswoman Mandi Merritt said in a statement.
For their part, states are trying proactively to keep rejection numbers down in a variety of ways: public education campaigns encouraging voters to return their ballots early; pressure on DeJoy, as well as additional coordination with postal officials; new ballot drop boxes; online ballot tracking; redesigned ballots; and streamlined ballot instructions.

In Wisconsin, election officials are offering options for voters to return their ballots by mail or in person, depending on their comfort level, said Reid Magney, spokesman for the state election commission.

The state has added intelligent mail bar codes this year, meaning voters can see a projected delivery date when the clerk mails the ballot out, and track the ballot as it is delivered and sent back to the clerk to be counted.

There is also a major voter education effort underway to teach voters how they can cast absentee ballots, including through a series of two-minute videos online.
“Time is our friend with all of this,” Magney said. “Our hope is that by getting people to act early, that’s going to be a big help.”

Other states have adopted new policies.

Earlier this month, the Virginia Board of Elections approved a regulation allowing absentee ballots to be counted even if the postmark is missing or defective. Ballots returned by mail in the state must arrive by noon Nov. 6 to count.
A similar rule drew a legal challenge this month from the Trump campaign and the RNC after it was enacted in Nevada.

North Carolina in May loosened its witness requirement for absentee ballots during the pandemic, allowing ballots to count if they are signed by one witness instead of two or a notary.
Still, Allison Riggs, interim executive director of the Southern Coalition for Social Justice, called the bill a “Band-Aid over a gushing arterial wound.” The group filed su it and won a ruling Aug. 4 that the state must provide a cure process to help voters fix mistakes that otherwise would lead to their ballots being rejected.

Riggs estimated that if voter participation rates are similar to 2016, about 115,000 ballots will be saved by the ruling.

While North Carolina is among the roughly 30 states without a signature-match requirement, roughly 25 ballots were still rejected during the primary under the code “signature different,” Riggs noted. Another roughly 1,700 ballots were coded as spoiled, with the specific reason unclear.
“It’s pretty troubling,” Riggs said. “If North Carolina poll workers and election workers aren’t really clear on the rules and how to apply them and there isn’t a lot of standardized guidance, that handful of essentially discrepancies — that can turn into some big numbers come November.”

'It's scary'

For voters who learned that their ballots were tossed this year, the experience was deeply demoralizing, shaking their faith in the system.

Fusco, the Philadelphia voter who tried to vote for Sanders, said that when she heard her ballot was rejected, she tried to call the elections office but got no answer.
Finally, Fusco received a reply by email from a city official who said she failed to sign her name on the ballot envelope, according to messages reviewed by The Post. After Fusco insisted this was wrong, the official said she had signed, but the signature was only her initials, whereas the signature on her voter registration record was her full name.

“I’ve been using my initials as my signature for the past several years,” she said. “We bought a house and that is my signature. It’s on my license. It’s how I’ve been signing my name for years. My registration record is probably from when I was 18. . . . I don’t know how you can expect signatures to stay the same for so many years.”

“Making this process so painstakingly difficult is a form of voter suppression,” she wrote in a reply to the official.
Philadelphia officials said 3.8 percent of ballots cast by mail for the June primary were rejected.
“The Board [of Elections] makes every effort to accept every ballot they can in accordance with the law,” a city deputy commissioner, Nick Custodio, told The Post in an email. “Voters have the opportunity [to] appeal individual decisions directly to the Board itself.”

Fusco, now working as a freelance illustrator, said she was uncomfortable making a formal appeal during the pandemic because she feared it would require attending an in-person meeting. But now, she said, she feels compelled to cast a ballot in person in November to ensure that it counts.
“I have no idea what that is going to look like,” she said. “It’s scary. It’s almost like, even if I do go vote in person, is it going to matter? Even if I do put myself at risk, is it going to matter?”
This story has been updated to reflect an updated number of ballots that were thrown out in Maine and remove a reference to that state’s rejection rate, which was calculated using a rejections figure that included ballots not returned by voters.

Michelle Ye Hee Lee, Antonio Olivo and Jada Yuan contributed to this report.


I have my own concerns about this mail in voting, some based on not trusting Democratic Leadership and those willing to do anything (including fraudulent votes) but mainly, shoving such a huge change in such a short time normally means it's going to be FUBAR'd.    My belief is that nothing should change for this election from state to state and if, that's the direction we (as citizens of the US) want to go, put the changes in place for the next election.   Allow states to get geared up and properly prepared.   Educate voters and move forward.  Put a tested and proven system in place that will verify voters and votes and ensure accuracy of the election.  Throwing money at the US Postal System is just an attempt to raise the ire of President Trump Haters and wasting money.   What the Democrats are trying to do is beyond stupid for a fair and accurate election.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 04:18:27 AM by Rams » Logged

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bagelboy
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Woodstock NY


« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2020, 06:37:20 AM »

Over nighted my son's passport to him in New York City ,125 miles from where I live. It was lost for 4 months! I mailed my dad a Box of plastic gloves at the beginning of April, over nighted, it got to him 3 weeks later! I don't have a lot of faith in the postal system!
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Serk
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Rowlett, TX


« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2020, 06:38:59 AM »

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Racist Democrats ran a massive mail in voting scam to try to deny Abraham Lincoln a second term in office.

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Mail-in-ballots-were-part-of-a-plot-to-deny-15507606.php
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2020, 07:00:55 AM »

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Racist Democrats ran a massive mail in voting scam to try to deny Abraham Lincoln a second term in office.

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Mail-in-ballots-were-part-of-a-plot-to-deny-15507606.php
OMG ! Now you are going back to the Civil War days, rooting out fraud ? (I'm pretty sure the Democrats didn't have a stranglehold on racism)
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Patrick
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VRCC 4474

Largo Florida


« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2020, 07:39:59 AM »

Its called history. Democrats have a history they'd rather not have anyone know. Why shouldn't we know history ,whether good or bad.
Democrats have been on the wrong side since the days before Lincoln. They do their best to deny it.
I was a democrat until I learned the error of my ways.
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Tx Bohemian
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Posts: 2272

Victoria, Tx


« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2020, 07:50:33 AM »

Over nighted my son's passport to him in New York City ,125 miles from where I live. It was lost for 4 months! I mailed my dad a Box of plastic gloves at the beginning of April, over nighted, it got to him 3 weeks later! I don't have a lot of faith in the postal system!

Know what you mean, I've got a few horror stories about my experience of mail deliveries.
Mailed letters that were never seen again! (at least not by me or the "mailee")

Here is just one:
A few years ago we moved to a "new to us" house.
We did the "change of address" form the PO requires. (Actually ended up doing it 3 times by the time it was over!)
A month or so later I ordered 5 car parts from Amazon but failed to change to the new address. Should not matter as we did the change of address thing, right?
2 parts came to my new house, 2 came to the old address (luckily a friend lived there and informed me), but one part I got a "failed to deliver" notice at the old house. This part was sent to Corpus, 90 miles away, to have the address changed. The PO was going to charge me $19 COD for sending it to Corpus. I told them to "stick it" as I'll just order a new part because it was $12 to start with.

When I questioned the local postmaster why 2 items were delivered correctly, 2 weren't and one went wayward he had EVERY excuse in the books not blaming his guys!

A few months later the old house was sold to an older couple who lived there for about a year when he died and she had dementia so the family moved her out. About a month after that the family brought us a stack of mail the old folks where keeping to give us, which they never did.  And this included a couple of fairly important bills!
So I have no idea why we even took the time to put in the "change of address"!!

I have absolutely NO faith that the PO is capable of delivering ballots properly!!

It's hard for me to talk bad about the PO because my dad was a postman after the military!
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Al
Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2020, 07:51:52 AM »

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Racist Democrats ran a massive mail in voting scam to try to deny Abraham Lincoln a second term in office.

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Mail-in-ballots-were-part-of-a-plot-to-deny-15507606.php
OMG ! Now you are going back to the Civil War days, rooting out fraud ? (I'm pretty sure the Democrats didn't have a stranglehold on racism)

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe the KKK was started and supported primarily by Democrats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

Its called history. Democrats have a history they'd rather not have anyone know. Why shouldn't we know history ,whether good or bad.
Democrats have been on the wrong side since the days before Lincoln. They do their best to deny it.
I was a democrat until I learned the error of my ways.

What he said. 
The difference is, I'm staying a registered Democrat and voting Conservative at every opportunity (hoping to change the party from within).

Rams
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Patrick
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Largo Florida


« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2020, 09:41:56 AM »

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Racist Democrats ran a massive mail in voting scam to try to deny Abraham Lincoln a second term in office.

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Mail-in-ballots-were-part-of-a-plot-to-deny-15507606.php
OMG ! Now you are going back to the Civil War days, rooting out fraud ? (I'm pretty sure the Democrats didn't have a stranglehold on racism)

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe the KKK was started and supported primarily by Democrats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

Its called history. Democrats have a history they'd rather not have anyone know. Why shouldn't we know history ,whether good or bad.
Democrats have been on the wrong side since the days before Lincoln. They do their best to deny it.
I was a democrat until I learned the error of my ways.

What he said. 
The difference is, I'm staying a registered Democrat and voting Conservative at every opportunity (hoping to change the party from within).

Rams






Thats a good idea, I just spend too much time as it is around democrats.
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Robert
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S Florida


« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2020, 01:32:33 PM »

DO NOT watch this video if you do not want to get aggravated.

Full Video: Rep. Stephen Lynch Spars With Postmaster General

https://www.air.tv/watch?c=politics&v=J36V2YL6Twu3_KLnp7binQ
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Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2020, 03:30:03 PM »

DO NOT watch this video if you do not want to get aggravated.

Full Video: Rep. Stephen Lynch Spars With Postmaster General

https://www.air.tv/watch?c=politics&v=J36V2YL6Twu3_KLnp7binQ

Tried to watch it but when you click on the arrow to play, it takes me to some game.   Sad

Rams
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Jersey mike
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Brick,NJ


« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2020, 03:40:24 PM »

I had mentioned this is a previous thread somewhere.

During our primary N.J. residents had the option to “vote in person” so my wife and I chose that option. We went to our town hall. There were about 8 volunteers there and there was one voting machine.

We found the table for our district and signed in. Since we are registered Republicans, we each got a ballot for Republican candidates.

My wife said “we came to vote in person, why can’t we use the voting machine?” She was told “the machine is only for handicapped people.”

My response was “that make no sense whatsoever” and the response was “that’s what we were told”.

We filled out our paper ballots, but there was a section regarding citizenship and “why are you voting by mail” with I believe 3 answers to choose from. Not one of the answers was an honest answer so we asked the volunteers what the correct response would be. Not one had an answer for us so Barbara and I decided to leave that question blank because as I said none of the available answer options were honest or even close to an answer which pertained to us.

So to this day I have no idea if our votes counted and if we will have the same issue in the election.

Also, when my mail in ballot arrives, I can honestly say I don’t remember how I sign the book. My signature is from 1983. I can’t remember if I signed my first, middle, last name OR first, middle initial, last name. I always sign what my registered signature is in the book for the volunteers to confirm. One of the other things I like about voting in person is we know almost every person working there.

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Robert
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S Florida


« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2020, 03:47:33 PM »


Tried to watch it but when you click on the arrow to play, it takes me to some game.   Sad

Rams

https://youtu.be/CJ8BHz0taS0

This should work for you  cooldude
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Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2020, 04:49:01 PM »


Tried to watch it but when you click on the arrow to play, it takes me to some game.   Sad

Rams

https://youtu.be/CJ8BHz0taS0

This should work for you  cooldude

It did work, thanks.
I am not surprised by the Congressman's attitude and lengthy and miss-leading opening remarks.
He's a dyed in the wool long term Liberal Democrat.  He (thankfully) does not represent me.

Rams
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2020, 03:44:23 AM »

Do you really want to trust the postal service to get things right ? Especially something as important as ballots ?

These idiots just lost 2 pieces of mail that were sent to me within a week.

Month ago it took them 3 weeks to send something from CA to NY.

I get mail for others all the time.

There was a time when this was a good company, this isn't that time.
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Jersey mike
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Brick,NJ


« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2020, 04:17:20 AM »

Do you really want to trust the postal service to get things right ? Especially something as important as ballots ?

These idiots just lost 2 pieces of mail that were sent to me within a week.

Month ago it took them 3 weeks to send something from CA to NY.

I get mail for others all the time.

There was a time when this was a good company, this isn't that time.

One of the recurring things that keeps coming to mind is how it’s being said that volunteers will verify voters signature on the outside of the ballot before opening and processing the ballot.

I have real issues with my signature being on the outside of any piece of mail or any other item which can be viewed, copied or photographed.
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Patrick
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VRCC 4474

Largo Florida


« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2020, 03:04:55 PM »

Do you really want to trust the postal service to get things right ? Especially something as important as ballots ?

These idiots just lost 2 pieces of mail that were sent to me within a week.

Month ago it took them 3 weeks to send something from CA to NY.

I get mail for others all the time.

There was a time when this was a good company, this isn't that time.

One of the recurring things that keeps coming to mind is how it’s being said that volunteers will verify voters signature on the outside of the ballot before opening and processing the ballot.

I have real issues with my signature being on the outside of any piece of mail or any other item which can be viewed, copied or photographed.



I believe thats on the inner envelope, at least the way its supposed to be here.
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Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2020, 03:09:25 PM »

Do you really want to trust the postal service to get things right ? Especially something as important as ballots ?

These idiots just lost 2 pieces of mail that were sent to me within a week.

Month ago it took them 3 weeks to send something from CA to NY.

I get mail for others all the time.

There was a time when this was a good company, this isn't that time.

One of the recurring things that keeps coming to mind is how it’s being said that volunteers will verify voters signature on the outside of the ballot before opening and processing the ballot.

I have real issues with my signature being on the outside of any piece of mail or any other item which can be viewed, copied or photographed.



I believe thats on the inner envelope, at least the way its supposed to be here.

I'm curious as to how many poll workers are technically qualified to make that signature verification determination?
At least when I vote in person, I present an ID with my picture on it for them to verify who I am.

Rams
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 03:15:06 PM by Rams » Logged

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Patrick
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Largo Florida


« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2020, 03:11:06 PM »

I mentioned recent mail mishaps. Happened again.

Stopped at the post office and found out mail has been left at the right number on the wrong road. They think I should go and try to get the mail from that house.

Received another email today stating another package was just delivered, well, not to my house. I'll give them another day before I visit them again.

Yep, letting them handle our voting ballots is a wonderful idea. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
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scooperhsd
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Kansas City KS


« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2020, 05:53:09 PM »

Some of that is for sure your local USPS people not doing their jobs correctly. When we lived in Boston MA, - (the Lynn Post Office) was absolutely horrible (one house converted to 3 apartments  only 2 mailboxes). Even when we had corrected the number f mailboxes problem - it continued to be horrible about wrong mailbox. Then, when we moved out AND filed the proper change of address form, it only came for about a month (should be a minimum of 90 days).

Everywhere else we have lived - no such problem.

One of the best tools you can use to keep them honest - USPS has a service that you can see all the mail scheduled t be delivered to your address - it then sends you an email every day you are supposed to receive something.
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Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2020, 06:16:18 AM »

The thought has occurred to me that this USPS situation/drama is much like the COVID 19 issue.

The allegation has been made that much of the media information is simply a scare tactic to get people to follow the guidelines.  

Is the USPS actually as bad as it has been portrayed or, is the media and Democrat leadership just doing this as another anti-Trump tactic?   I have my own opinion and I sure as heck don't believe giving the USPS an additional 25 billion dollars will change anything.  What it does do is keep the issues in the news and raise a stink that Liberals/Progressives hope to use to build a wave of support against an incumbent President.

Is it all about manipulation?   I guess each person has to decide for themselves.

Rams
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scooperhsd
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Kansas City KS


« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2020, 06:44:36 AM »

As I stated - your experiance with the USPS is likely to be colored with your LOCAL EXPERIANCE with it. I would, as a general rule, trust the USPS as much as any other delivery service - until they proved repeatedly that the local office was not deserving of that trust.

BTW - you ex military people who dealt with classified material - did you know that all of that is sent USPS ? At least Secret and below is, I imagine some TS-SCI is handcarried only.
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Tx Bohemian
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Victoria, Tx


« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2020, 07:52:21 AM »

As I stated - your experiance with the USPS is likely to be colored with your LOCAL EXPERIANCE with it. I would, as a general rule, trust the USPS as much as any other delivery service - until they proved repeatedly that the local office was not deserving of that trust.

And you're right, my experience is colored with local experience. 
I do trust other delivery services before I'd trust the USPS.  I've had much better luck with those.

Another USPS horror story (and this one cost me more than it should've):
A number of years ago I sent Wizzard a check for $150 for a rear wheel he sold me. Was in contact with him for the following 2 months because I never saw the cleared check in my account.
He never got it!  We live like 100 miles apart.
So I cancelled the check, which was a $25 charge, and we just met half-ways and I paid him cash. To make sure he got his $!
It was a great ride and good meeting with a fellow VRCC member but something that should've not had to happen!

So how can I be confident my VOTE gets to it's destination with my experience with the PO, regardless if it's LOCAL or not?
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that had these sad experiences with the PO.
 
I see a lot of advertisements about how this election here was decided by only 2 votes or that one by 5 votes, SO YOUR VOTE COUNTS...
I'd hate for my vote to get lost through the PO and it be the one that would RE-ELECT THE GREATEST PRESIDENT EVER!!!
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Al
Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2020, 08:44:28 AM »

My own USPS horror story:

I purchased some aluminum tread plate, paid for it with a USPS Postal Money Order.
The seller kept claiming he never received the check so, I had the Postal Inspector do an investigation (which, BTW is not Free).   Apparently the check was signed and cashed by a lady at a convenience store just down the road from where the seller lived.   They had her signature and went so far as to get the store's video from that transaction but would never prosecute.  While it was a lot of money to me, I guess it wasn't enough for the Post Office or, the prosecutor to be concerned about.   Less than a thousand bucks but, still caused an issue for myself and the seller.

Yeah, I got my money back (except for the investigation fee) but, I was left with a really bad attitude toward the Postal System for a long time.   But have used USPS Money Orders after that and no other issues.

Rams
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Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.

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Robert
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S Florida


« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2020, 09:27:14 AM »

"This convention just in the last two nights has awakened me that there is hope," says a Minnesota Democrat with anguish in her voice.
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old2soon
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Willow Springs mo


« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2020, 09:31:48 AM »

        My Personal u s p s Horror tale. Bit of back round. Jefferson City Missouri-The Capital-about 139-158 miles away surface routes. I got the title to my Pontiac back from my S I L and went to our local license office to change the T O D-Transfer On Death-from my S I L to the Church I Attend. $14.50 later the paper and computer work was completed. Then the guy doing all this transfer "stuff" informs me while Jeff City IS in Fact a bit behind the Real hold up Will Be-TA DA-the u s p s. Even though all the "stuff" is in the puter the actual hard copies must go to Jeff City by mail and be processed in Jeff City and they-J C-will Mail my hard copy Title back to me. Turn around time-8 to 10 weeks most of it from u s p s delays. This entire debacle took place yesterday. When I did this the first time-T O D-from office to me 2 weeks. So while I are a bit aggravated I Already KNOW come November I am Voting in PERSON. And NO I'm sorry to say-I no longer have Trust in the u s p s. And yet the u s p s Still Wonders why Amazon has a Lot of the very own residential delivery vehicles. DUH! RIDE SAFE.
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Patrick
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VRCC 4474

Largo Florida


« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2020, 09:32:06 AM »

I'm sure my recent issues are local. Maybe not even with the office, but with the fairly new local delivery fella.

I've always seemed to have good luck, no problems, with them.

But, I still wouldn't want to have to trust them with anything other than proper absentee ballots.
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Rams
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So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2020, 10:33:31 AM »

When I first moved to MS from KY, we had one heck of a time getting our mail.
Some never got here, some took weeks.  I kept complaining to the local carrier and the post office.

Then, through my own investigation, I discovered that there was another address on a road with the same name but, it ended in Road and our's ends in Drive.   What the hell?   OK, I ask how does this get fixed, much of my mail was going to the other address and never getting forwarded to us.

Even while attempting to set up our billing with local utilities, when (who ever) would enter our address into their computer systems, our address would not show up, the other address would be filled in automatically.   Our address did not exist in the system.   coolsmiley coolsmiley

Turns out, the USPS uses the 911 system for address and delivery.   Even though the street sign on my road says ___________ Drive, the system would not recognize my address because of the 911 locator issue.   It took me about two months to get the right people involved to have the correction made.   Since then, only UPS has screwed it up.   The USPS and FedEx find us every time (so far).  

Thank God I never needed an ambulance here at _____________ Drive, they would have gone to _________ Road and I'd be sending this from below the sod line.  So, I can say this was not a USPS screw up but a 911 mess.   

Rams
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 10:38:28 AM by Rams » Logged

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Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.

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old2soon
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Willow Springs mo


« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2020, 10:55:52 AM »

      I have posted a couple times before about wandering deliveries. The postal service in their infinite wisdom supplies us with pkg tracking numbers. I have like zero idea of how the u s p s routes their mail. What I can say though is this-after tracking some of my pkgs I firmly believe direct routes are NOT used much less contemplated. In one or two instances I'd of been better off driving to where the needed part was manufactured to pick it up instead of having it shipped u s p s. But in one way having it delivered was a bit cheaper than driving. I drove professionally for a Lot of Years out there. Not one single company I ever drove for wanted me to take my time or take the scenic route. ALWAYS ALWAYS most direct route and as quickly as I could. RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check.  1964  1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
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bagelboy
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Woodstock NY


« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2020, 04:05:38 PM »

If you can wear a mask and go to the store, and you can wear a mask and go out to eat, and you can wear a mask and go food shopping, I don't understand how you can't vote in person. Trying to avoid problems on both sides, and the only way to do that is if people show up at the polls. The mail thing is going to cause problems for either party! And this will only cause more lawsuits. And division. It should be avoided!
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