Sturgis V COVID 19

[Rams]

I also do believe politicians (both sides) and the media will use it or anything else for their own benefit.

QFT!   On this, most of us would whole heartedly agree.   

Rams

[Willow]

...
IMHO wearing a mask in public is more effective at preventing the spread of COVID than wearing blinders everywhere you go.   

On this we absolutely agree and since I prefer not to wear a mask I also refuse to wear blinders.   

[Valkorado]

...
IMHO wearing a mask in public is more effective at preventing the spread of COVID than wearing blinders everywhere you go.  

On this we absolutely agree and since I prefer not to wear a mask I also refuse to wear blinders.  

I'd prefer not to wear masks also. Where they are required I wear them. It's a minor inconvenience.  

Local and state policy makers did not inquire of my personal preferences when they were debating public COVID mitigation plans. Where COVID is concerned, it seems they are more concerned about public health as a whole than fulfilling individual preferences.

[mbramley]

I'd prefer not to wear masks also. Where they are required I wear them. It's a minor inconvenience.  

Local and state policy makers did not inquire of my personal preferences when they were debating public COVID mitigation plans. Where COVID is concerned, it seems they are more concerned about public health as a whole than fulfilling individual preferences.
[/quote]

  Very true and to the point. Also I'm betting you would be hard pressed to find the person who woke up this morning saying "I hope I get to wear my mask all day today."

[Valkorado]

Colorado Reports 20+ Coronavirus Cases Linked To Sturgis Motorcycle Rally

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/08/28/coronavirus-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-south-dakota-bikers/amp/

[Rams]

           A little of topic, but now that Inzne has been over for a few weeks. Have ANY of our members that attended, came down with the plague?

I have no idea and I don't know if anyone that may have attended has or would report it.   If there were any cases of sharing the virus, I would hope it would be announced.   If, I had the virus, I would make sure those I cared about knew they may have been exposed.   Enough time has passed, I doubt there was much if any transmission or I think we would have heard about it. 

I had full intentions of attending this year (I was registered and paid full admission) but, when the date was changed, that date conflicted with something else I needed to address, a family situation I had not forecasted so, I was unable to attend.

Had I been able to attend, I would have followed CDC guidelines.   I hate that cause when it comes to family, I'm a hugger. 

Colorado Reports 20+ Coronavirus Cases Linked To Sturgis Motorcycle Rally

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/08/28/coronavirus-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-south-dakota-bikers/amp/

Not holding my breath but, I sincerely hope this doesn't expand but, I believe it will until this threat is recognized and addressed.   
Thanks for posting that.   Apparently, some people will never take this seriously until it directly effects them.

Rams

[Valkorado]

          A little of topic, but now that Inzne has been over for a few weeks. Have ANY of our members that attended, came down with the plague?

I have no idea and I don't know if anyone that may have attended has or would report it.   If there were any cases of sharing the virus, I would hope it would be announced.   If, I had the virus, I would make sure those I cared about knew they may have been exposed.   Enough time has passed, I doubt there was much if any transmission or I think we would have heard about it.  

I had full intentions of attending this year (I was registered and paid full admission) but, when the date was changed, that date conflicted with something else I needed to address, a family situation I had not forecasted so, I was unable to attend.

Had I been able to attend, I would have followed CDC guidelines.   I hate that cause when it comes to family, I'm a hugger.  

Colorado Reports 20+ Coronavirus Cases Linked To Sturgis Motorcycle Rally

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/08/28/coronavirus-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-south-dakota-bikers/amp/

Not holding my breath but, I sincerely hope this doesn't expand but, I believe it will until this threat is recognized and addressed.  
Thanks for posting that.   Apparently, some people will never take this seriously until it directly effects them.

Rams

It has affected all of us, Ron.  I think you meant infects.  

More predictied numbers (I know, numbers) and a way to reduce them.  According to that science "stuff", anyway.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-projection-for-us-forecasts-317697-deaths-by-december

[Rams]

           A little of topic, but now that Inzne has been over for a few weeks. Have ANY of our members that attended, came down with the plague?

I have no idea and I don't know if anyone that may have attended has or would report it.   If there were any cases of sharing the virus, I would hope it would be announced.   If, I had the virus, I would make sure those I cared about knew they may have been exposed.   Enough time has passed, I doubt there was much if any transmission or I think we would have heard about it. 

I had full intentions of attending this year (I was registered and paid full admission) but, when the date was changed, that date conflicted with something else I needed to address, a family situation I had not forecasted so, I was unable to attend.

Had I been able to attend, I would have followed CDC guidelines.   I hate that cause when it comes to family, I'm a hugger. 

Colorado Reports 20+ Coronavirus Cases Linked To Sturgis Motorcycle Rally

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/08/28/coronavirus-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-south-dakota-bikers/amp/

Not holding my breath but, I sincerely hope this doesn't expand but, I believe it will until this threat is recognized and addressed.   
Thanks for posting that.   Apparently, some people will never take this seriously until it directly effects them.

Rams

It has affected all of us, Ron.  I think you meant infects.   

Hey Bud, my wife is always correcting me, I don't believe we're on that kind of relationship. 

Yeah, messed that on up.  But, you got my drift.   Thanks for the pointing that out.  My Gawd that was hard to say.   

Rams

[Willow]

Colorado Reports 20+ Coronavirus Cases Linked To Sturgis Motorcycle Rally

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/08/28/coronavirus-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-south-dakota-bikers/amp/

That was an interesting video.  Colorado reports 20 cases of 462,000 attendees.     More than 100 cases of 462,000 attendees.   

The reporters tried hard to express this as a serious concern.  Really?  The national average is 1.8% (total).  In order to achieve the national average the cases out of Sturgis would need to be at least 8,316.  To be a serious issue (more than national average) the number would need to significantly exceed the national average.  I would place that target at 15-16 thousand.  Keep in mind that Sturgis is a prime example of crowds and a large portion (majority?) of the people ignoring the CDC guidelines for masks and social distancing.  If anything, the reports so far indicate serious proof that the CDC guidelines are not doing what the reporters claim they will do.  That will be true even if the Sturgis related cases rises to a reported 8,316.  It appears to me the "scientists" are not being very numerically scientific.

Just to put an exclamation point on the ridiculousness of the report the reporter goes out of his way to say he is "covering" Colorado first and pointing to his mask.  He is wearing his mask below the nostrils.    

[Serk]

I have no idea and I don't know if anyone that may have attended has or would report it.

If my test post Asheville had been positive I would 100% have first notified staff so that they could take appropriate measures and, if they wish, make the announcement themselves, then I would have done so to make sure any that had come in contact with me could take appropriate actions.

(And not in a "I got this from you!" way, but in a "I had this while I was near you, you should know" way... Frankly I was FAR more worried about all the hotels, restaurants, brothels, truck stops, etc I stopped at to and from Asheville than I was worried about the event itself.)

[Valkorado]

What happens in Sturgis doesn't stay in Sturgis -- not this year anyway.  There will be contacts who will become ill.  There may even be contacts of the contacts who fall victim.  How many, I don't know.  How ill I can't say.

I can remember when there was great concern over one confirmed COVID case arriving in our country.  In all likelihood it began with a singular or very small cluster of cases, halfway around the Earth.  Now it's a bit of a problem here, whether we want to admit it or not.

With over 180,000 dead in our country and rising, It's really no big deal.  Masking and social distancing is unnecessary.  

[Valkorado]

I have no idea and I don't know if anyone that may have attended has or would report it.

If my test post Asheville had been positive I would 100% have first notified staff so that they could take appropriate measures and, if they wish, make the announcement themselves, then I would have done so to make sure any that had come in contact with me could take appropriate actions.

(And not in a "I got this from you!" way, but in a "I had this while I was near you, you should know" way... Frankly I was FAR more worried about all the hotels, restaurants, brothels, truck stops, etc I stopped at to and from Asheville than I was worried about the event itself.)

Sounds like you acknowledge there's an invisible enemy out there.  That's good.

Hope you left Kali at a McDonalds Fun House or something while you were visiting the brothels. 

[Rams]

I have no idea and I don't know if anyone that may have attended has or would report it.

If my test post Asheville had been positive I would 100% have first notified staff so that they could take appropriate measures and, if they wish, make the announcement themselves, then I would have done so to make sure any that had come in contact with me could take appropriate actions.

(And not in a "I got this from you!" way, but in a "I had this while I was near you, you should know" way... Frankly I was FAR more worried about all the hotels, restaurants, brothels, truck stops, etc I stopped at to and from Asheville than I was worried about the event itself.)

Sounds like you acknowledge there's an invisible enemy out there.  That's good.

Hope you left Kali at a McDonalds Fun House or something while you were visiting the brothels. 

Making a note to my self:  Next INZANE, Hang out with Serk!!   

Rams

[Willow]

...
With over 180,000 dead in our country and rising, It's really no big deal.  Masking and social distancing is unnecessary.  

I've really become weary of your sarcasm.  I've tried to treat you with respect but it doesn't seem to go both ways.  If you've got something intelligent to say then say it outright.  Ridiculing with sarcasm those who disagree with you is not legitimate participation in a discussion.

At this point out of respect for the Rules of the Road I will not tell you wear you can stick your rather ignorant opinions.

No smiley.

[The emperor has no clothes]

...
With over 180,000 dead in our country and rising, It's really no big deal.  Masking and social distancing is unnecessary.  

I've really become weary of your sarcasm.  I've tried to treat you with respect but it doesn't seem to go both ways.  If you've got something intelligent to say then say it outright.  Ridiculing with sarcasm those who disagree with you is not legitimate participation in a discussion.

At this point out of respect for the Rules of the Road I will not tell you wear you can stick your rather ignorant opinions.

No smiley.

Dude ! You are slipping. Wear ?  (smiley)

[Rams]

I have no idea and I don't know if anyone that may have attended has or would report it.

If my test post Asheville had been positive I would 100% have first notified staff so that they could take appropriate measures and, if they wish, make the announcement themselves, then I would have done so to make sure any that had come in contact with me could take appropriate actions.

(And not in a "I got this from you!" way, but in a "I had this while I was near you, you should know" way... Frankly I was FAR more worried about all the hotels, restaurants, brothels, truck stops, etc I stopped at to and from Asheville than I was worried about the event itself.)

I have no doubt you (and the staff) would have done the right thing.  There are no bad guys here that I am aware of.   

The possibility always exists that someone attended Sturgis or Inzane with a mild case and didn't even know they had it.   Or, didn't know they had it or caught it until two weeks later is all I'm saying.   

COVID 19 would not have stopped me from following you to the brothels although I would have had to wait outside. 

Rams

[Valkorado]

...
With over 180,000 dead in our country and rising, It's really no big deal.  Masking and social distancing is unnecessary.  

I've really become weary of your sarcasm.  I've tried to treat you with respect but it doesn't seem to go both ways.  If you've got something intelligent to say then say it outright.  Ridiculing with sarcasm those who disagree with you is not legitimate participation in a discussion.

At this point out of respect for the Rules of the Road I will not tell you wear you can stick your rather ignorant opinions.

No smiley.

There's been plenty of blatant ridicule directed towards myself regarding my "ignorant" opinions on C-19, much of it coming from you. Calling someone's opinions ignorant is not really the best form of moderation or discussion, and it often results in similar reaction.  Guess those rules of the road and your"respect" for them are kinda borderline, or liberties can be stretched to a large degree by some but not others.  You can say someone's opinions are ignorant without actually calling the person ignorant.  They had better not respond in kind of they are risking a wrath.  No fine line there.

If you took my statement as a attack, your skin is indeed thinner than I had imagined.  In that case, I apologise for "ridiculing" you and the resultant pain it had caused you to endure.

  

[Jersey mike]

...
With over 180,000 dead in our country and rising, It's really no big deal.  Masking and social distancing is unnecessary.  

I've really become weary of your sarcasm.  I've tried to treat you with respect but it doesn't seem to go both ways.  If you've got something intelligent to say then say it outright.  Ridiculing with sarcasm those who disagree with you is not legitimate participation in a discussion.

At this point out of respect for the Rules of the Road I will not tell you wear you can stick your rather ignorant opinions.

No smiley.

There's been plenty of blatant ridicule directed towards myself regarding my "ignorant" opinions on C-19, much of it coming from you. Calling someone's opinions ignorant is not really the best form of moderation or discussion, and it often results in similar reaction.  Guess those rules of the road and your"respect" for them are kinda borderline, or liberties can be stretched to a large degree by some but not others.  You can say someone's opinions are ignorant without actually calling the person ignorant.  They had better not respond in kind of they are risking a wrath.  No fine line there.

If you took my statement as a attack, your skin is indeed thinner than I had imagined.  In that case, I apologise for "ridiculing" you and the resultant pain it had caused you to endure.

  

I hope it’s ok for me to step in here for a minute because I’d like to throw a little something into the mix.

I know I’ve said a number of things regarding this issue which some may view as insensitive and quite controversial but it’s a gift I just happen to be blessed with.

I’ve always had the uncanny ability to say what’s on my mind and give the whole truth on a topic. On the other hand my father taught me how to circumvent that when dealing with clients and customers...how mix the truth with some salesmanship, “ kill ‘em with kindness” my dad always said. Do the best you can to remedy a situation and always let the customer think they won even if it’s a small battle. It’s better to walk away with a customer happy and the check in your hand than a dissatisfied customer who complains and is forever unhappy, but he also knew there’s no pleasing everyone on every issue.

That being said we’re all tired of the C-19 issue and all the bullshit associated with it. I’m know I’m tired of the politicized media coverage, governors who are playing virus card at every turn they can to suit what appears to be a political agenda and how ever media channel has an expert that agrees or disagrees with the decision of that days script.

As I drive around, go into stores and see people,”dining” in parking lots, it’s clear to me people are miserable, not just from wearing masks, I do look at the faces of people who immediately remove them while exiting a store and it’s usually the same sigh of relief and a sign of dissatisfaction.

One thing I’ve learned over the years is when people are concerned for their life, health and well being there is no way you’re going to convince them things are going to be ok. Being afraid and concerned for your life and the lives of your family is a deeply rooted self preservation reaction.

Facing ones own mortality issue is a serious issue on an individual level. This virus has proven to attack the the weakest of the population and people with health issues and are older are the most susceptible and when that hits home for those people combined with the fear the media has blatantly hammered society with on a daily basis the fear of dying is a more of an every day occurrence rather than just a passing thought as it would normally be for most people.

We all know we’re going to die but when we’re reminded of it at every turn these days it can be daunting to deal with. C-19 is now a daily reminder, an every waking minute reminder our mortality is eminent for many people.

A few days ago I spoke about the daughter of my wife’s cousin. A 25 year old young lady with a terrible debilitating disease called Rett Syndrome who was in the hospital with C-19 despite the family doing everything possible to quarantine her at home.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rett_syndrome

Somehow she caught it. This young girl wasn’t suppose to love past the age of 5. She has been hospitalized for pneumonia probably a dozen times in her life. Last we heard was the medication she was on was helping (Remdesivir I believe) but was giving her raised liver enzymes so they discontinued that treatment and began another course of treatment of which medication we don’t know. I’m not saying she has recovered or that the prognosis is good but we are optimistic from hearing how she is reacting and behaving.

The point I’m trying to get to here is Barbara’s cousin is constantly telling people to wear masks and protect the weak like her daughter but eve with all that protection her daughter still caught the virus even though we know she was tucked away and quarantined, crap still happens.

So after all of this which I’ve written, discussions are good. It brings insight from every perspective. It has allowed me to see other points of view and feel where some people are coming from. This C19 issue has proven to me how screwed up medical community is and how disgusting the media has become and how biased political views can really throw a totally different spin into the works.

[scooperhsd]

Damn right, I'm a "Put mask on at the latest possible chance, take it off as I cross the threshold of the exit door" person. Have been since the beginning - when it first became "mandatory" here. Until then  - I didn't wear them at all person, in spite of signs requesting customers to do so. I still think they're useless unless you're sick - and then you should be staying at home !

[Valkorado]

...
With over 180,000 dead in our country and rising, It's really no big deal.  Masking and social distancing is unnecessary.  

I've really become weary of your sarcasm.  I've tried to treat you with respect but it doesn't seem to go both ways.  If you've got something intelligent to say then say it outright.  Ridiculing with sarcasm those who disagree with you is not legitimate participation in a discussion.

At this point out of respect for the Rules of the Road I will not tell you wear you can stick your rather ignorant opinions.

No smiley.

There's been plenty of blatant ridicule directed towards myself regarding my "ignorant" opinions on C-19, much of it coming from you. Calling someone's opinions ignorant is not really the best form of moderation or discussion, and it often results in similar reaction.  Guess those rules of the road and your"respect" for them are kinda borderline, or liberties can be stretched to a large degree by some but not others.  You can say someone's opinions are ignorant without actually calling the person ignorant.  They had better not respond in kind of they are risking a wrath.  No fine line there.

If you took my statement as a attack, your skin is indeed thinner than I had imagined.  In that case, I apologise for "ridiculing" you and the resultant pain it had caused you to endure.

  

I hope it’s ok for me to step in here for a minute because I’d like to throw a little something into the mix.

I know I’ve said a number of things regarding this issue which some may view as insensitive and quite controversial but it’s a gift I just happen to be blessed with.

I’ve always had the uncanny ability to say what’s on my mind and give the whole truth on a topic. On the other hand my father taught me how to circumvent that when dealing with clients and customers...how mix the truth with some salesmanship, “ kill ‘em with kindness” my dad always said. Do the best you can to remedy a situation and always let the customer think they won even if it’s a small battle. It’s better to walk away with a customer happy and the check in your hand than a dissatisfied customer who complains and is forever unhappy, but he also knew there’s no pleasing everyone on every issue.

That being said we’re all tired of the C-19 issue and all the bullshit associated with it. I’m know I’m tired of the politicized media coverage, governors who are playing virus card at every turn they can to suit what appears to be a political agenda and how ever media channel has an expert that agrees or disagrees with the decision of that days script.


Yup, I hate it and am very tired of it.  C-19 doesn't care about your political affiliation.  It also doesn't only cause serious illness in the elderly and weak.  Yes, they are most prone to die from the virus.

So I take it you're tired of the Republican governors who, according to their best judgement,  have found it necessary to initiate masking mandates?  If you remember, I'm no fan of mandates.  Unfortunately, it appears they happen.

As I drive around, go into stores and see people,”dining” in parking lots, it’s clear to me people are miserable, not just from wearing masks, I do look at the faces of people who immediately remove them while exiting a store and it’s usually the same sigh of relief and a sign of dissatisfaction.

Yup.  It sucks.

One thing I’ve learned over the years is when people are concerned for their life, health and well being there is no way you’re going to convince them things are going to be ok. Being afraid and concerned for your life and the lives of your family is a deeply rooted self preservation reaction.

I have no doubt things will be OK, eventually.  The best and most effective way to get there will be a vaccine, not herd immunity which is an extreme longshot at best.

Facing ones own mortality issue is a serious issue on an individual level. This virus has proven to attack the the weakest of the population and people with health issues and are older are the most susceptible and when that hits home for those people combined with the fear the media has blatantly hammered society with on a daily basis the fear of dying is a more of an every day occurrence rather than just a passing thought as it would normally be for most people.

There are many people who have fallen seriously ill, and some who have died from C-19 who were not feeble old geezers or people with pre existing conditions.  As with many virii, those groups will often fare worse when their immune systems are under attack.  Some kill more children.  Thankfully that is not the case with COVID.

We all know we’re going to die but when we’re reminded of it at every turn these days it can be daunting to deal with. C-19 is now a daily reminder, an every waking minute reminder our mortality is eminent for many people.

That fear thing again?  If one takes it seriously, they are caving in to fear.  We're all gonna die!  Might as well go gaping for breath from C-19!

A few days ago I spoke about the daughter of my wife’s cousin. A 25 year old young lady with a terrible debilitating disease called Rett Syndrome who was in the hospital with C-19 despite the family doing everything possible to quarantine her at home.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rett_syndrome

Somehow she caught it. This young girl wasn’t suppose to love past the age of 5. She has been hospitalized for pneumonia probably a dozen times in her life. Last we heard was the medication she was on was helping (Remdesivir I believe) but was giving her raised liver enzymes so they discontinued that treatment and began another course of treatment of which medication we don’t know. I’m not saying she has recovered or that the prognosis is good but we are optimistic from hearing how she is reacting and behaving.

The point I’m trying to get to here is Barbara’s cousin is constantly telling people to wear masks and protect the weak like her daughter but eve with all that protection her daughter still caught the virus even though we know she was tucked away and quarantined, poop still happens.

Poop is happening as we speak.  I don't tell anyone what to do.  I've always liked the educate, don't mandate angle.  It really boils down to educate the educable, but don't mandate.  I still say, this is America!  I do hope no governors from either party decide lockdowns are again called for.  Time will tell...

So after all of this which I’ve written, discussions are good. It brings insight from every perspective. It has allowed me to see other points of view and feel where some people are coming from. This C19 issue has proven to me how screwed up medical community is and how disgusting the media has become and how biased political views can really throw a totally different spin into the works.

Yup everybody spins it to meet their own stance and argument.  I don't support mandates.  I'm voting Trump again, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the administration's reaction to the virus.  On the important stuff, we have much in common.

Discussions are good!

[carolinarider09]

Quote from Jersey Mike's post.

So after all of this which I’ve written, discussions are good. It brings insight from every perspective. It has allowed me to see other points of view and feel where some people are coming from. This C19 issue has proven to me how screwed up medical community is and how disgusting the media has become and how biased political views can really throw a totally different spin into the works.

I too have had an awakening about how evil politics can be.  To use a virus as a political weapon (both by the CCP and some here at home) is a despicable action and worthy of condemnation.   

Prior to the CCP releasing the virus onto the world, I was not aware that 80%-90% of our medications come from the CCP. 

I was not aware of how political the World Health Organization (WHO) was-is.  I was not aware of how political the he Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)  was/is. 

I was not aware that politicians would be so dishonest as to use a pandemic to instill fear in the American population and try and control the outcome of an election. 

And while I was aware of how biased the main stream media has become, I was not aware they would actually do and report the things they have in the way they have over the past months to hurt the United States and the citizens that call this country home.

My oath stands. 

"I, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[Jersey mike]

...
With over 180,000 dead in our country and rising, It's really no big deal.  Masking and social distancing is unnecessary.  

I've really become weary of your sarcasm.  I've tried to treat you with respect but it doesn't seem to go both ways.  If you've got something intelligent to say then say it outright.  Ridiculing with sarcasm those who disagree with you is not legitimate participation in a discussion.

At this point out of respect for the Rules of the Road I will not tell you wear you can stick your rather ignorant opinions.

No smiley.

There's been plenty of blatant ridicule directed towards myself regarding my "ignorant" opinions on C-19, much of it coming from you. Calling someone's opinions ignorant is not really the best form of moderation or discussion, and it often results in similar reaction.  Guess those rules of the road and your"respect" for them are kinda borderline, or liberties can be stretched to a large degree by some but not others.  You can say someone's opinions are ignorant without actually calling the person ignorant.  They had better not respond in kind of they are risking a wrath.  No fine line there.

If you took my statement as a attack, your skin is indeed thinner than I had imagined.  In that case, I apologise for "ridiculing" you and the resultant pain it had caused you to endure.

  

I hope it’s ok for me to step in here for a minute because I’d like to throw a little something into the mix.

I know I’ve said a number of things regarding this issue which some may view as insensitive and quite controversial but it’s a gift I just happen to be blessed with.

I’ve always had the uncanny ability to say what’s on my mind and give the whole truth on a topic. On the other hand my father taught me how to circumvent that when dealing with clients and customers...how mix the truth with some salesmanship, “ kill ‘em with kindness” my dad always said. Do the best you can to remedy a situation and always let the customer think they won even if it’s a small battle. It’s better to walk away with a customer happy and the check in your hand than a dissatisfied customer who complains and is forever unhappy, but he also knew there’s no pleasing everyone on every issue.

That being said we’re all tired of the C-19 issue and all the bullshit associated with it. I’m know I’m tired of the politicized media coverage, governors who are playing virus card at every turn they can to suit what appears to be a political agenda and how ever media channel has an expert that agrees or disagrees with the decision of that days script.


Yup, I hate it and am very tired of it.  C-19 doesn't care about your political affiliation.  It also doesn't only cause serious illness in the elderly and weak.  Yes, they are most prone to die from the virus.

So I take it you're tired of the Republican governors who, according to their best judgement,  have found it necessary to initiate masking mandates?  If you remember, I'm no fan of mandates.  Unfortunately, it appears they happen.

As I drive around, go into stores and see people,”dining” in parking lots, it’s clear to me people are miserable, not just from wearing masks, I do look at the faces of people who immediately remove them while exiting a store and it’s usually the same sigh of relief and a sign of dissatisfaction.

Yup.  It sucks.

One thing I’ve learned over the years is when people are concerned for their life, health and well being there is no way you’re going to convince them things are going to be ok. Being afraid and concerned for your life and the lives of your family is a deeply rooted self preservation reaction.

I have no doubt things will be OK, eventually.  The best and most effective way to get there will be a vaccine, not herd immunity which is an extreme longshot at best.

Facing ones own mortality issue is a serious issue on an individual level. This virus has proven to attack the the weakest of the population and people with health issues and are older are the most susceptible and when that hits home for those people combined with the fear the media has blatantly hammered society with on a daily basis the fear of dying is a more of an every day occurrence rather than just a passing thought as it would normally be for most people.

There are many people who have fallen seriously ill, and some who have died from C-19 who were not feeble old geezers or people with pre existing conditions.  As with many virii, those groups will often fare worse when their immune systems are under attack.  Some kill more children.  Thankfully that is not the case with COVID.

We all know we’re going to die but when we’re reminded of it at every turn these days it can be daunting to deal with. C-19 is now a daily reminder, an every waking minute reminder our mortality is eminent for many people.

That fear thing again?  If one takes it seriously, they are caving in to fear.  We're all gonna die!  Might as well go gaping for breath from C-19!

A few days ago I spoke about the daughter of my wife’s cousin. A 25 year old young lady with a terrible debilitating disease called Rett Syndrome who was in the hospital with C-19 despite the family doing everything possible to quarantine her at home.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rett_syndrome

Somehow she caught it. This young girl wasn’t suppose to love past the age of 5. She has been hospitalized for pneumonia probably a dozen times in her life. Last we heard was the medication she was on was helping (Remdesivir I believe) but was giving her raised liver enzymes so they discontinued that treatment and began another course of treatment of which medication we don’t know. I’m not saying she has recovered or that the prognosis is good but we are optimistic from hearing how she is reacting and behaving.

The point I’m trying to get to here is Barbara’s cousin is constantly telling people to wear masks and protect the weak like her daughter but eve with all that protection her daughter still caught the virus even though we know she was tucked away and quarantined, poop still happens.

Poop is happening as we speak.  I don't tell anyone what to do.  I've always liked the educate, don't mandate angle.  It really boils down to educate the educable, but don't mandate.  I still say, this is America!  I do hope no governors from either party decide lockdowns are again called for.  Time will tell...

So after all of this which I’ve written, discussions are good. It brings insight from every perspective. It has allowed me to see other points of view and feel where some people are coming from. This C19 issue has proven to me how screwed up medical community is and how disgusting the media has become and how biased political views can really throw a totally different spin into the works.

Yup everybody spins it to meet their own stance and argument.  I don't support mandates.  I'm voting Trump again, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the administration's reaction to the virus.  On the important stuff, we have much in common.

Discussions are good!

  Well you left me with quite a big mess to respond to so I’ll do my best

I do believe in herd immunity and I believe this virus is slowing down and/or the strain is weaker. I also believe in there will be a vaccine and the therapeutic medications they are trying will have positive results. However I do believe if there are positive results they will not be made public knowledge by the media or politicians if it is a positive for The President...political and media bias with some envy and disdain. Don’t forget there’s big money involved everywhere along with behind the scene stuff with finding a vaccine.

I do disagree with the Republican governors mandatory mask rule.

My “eventually” is tomorrow...every day my eventually is tomorrow, not next week or next year.

We are all going to die but why do we ride motorcycles, statistically speaking probably more dangerous than C-19. I haven’t done the research, just an assumption.

My level of concern is different that yours. It’s different for everyone. My concern about catching the virus is very low as is my dying from it IF I do catch it at all. I have that same level of concern for my whole family. Others have a different level of concern and I get that, it’s only natural. I would not be concerned about being in public without a mask. I would not be concerned about being in a hospital without a mask, that’s how low of a concern I have on a personal level. Your approach or level of concern is what suits you best and that’s what’s right for you and your life and family.

While some in the younger age bracket have gotten sick or died their stats are not what represents the highest levels of mortality.

 Earlier today my wife told me her cousin texted last night they were expecting to be discharged from the hospital, no update as of yet. We consider her daughter among the weakest, a delicate individual but a fighter. Her purpose on this Earth is something different for all who know her and the family. What God’s plan for her is known only to Him but she has been a true wonder and inspiration to all in our family.

I don’t believe I’ve spun anything with how I’ve presented my side. I monitor the stats and read what I can. I do what I can to look through the BS and try to see an agenda.

Hope that covers everything, I think it is.

[Valkorado]

At least we can agree to disagree on many things.  Respectfully.  

Three things we can certainly agree upon are being glad your wife's cousin's daughter is showing improvement, no COVID mandates and voting Republican.

[f6gal]

          A little of topic, but now that Inzne has been over for a few weeks. Have ANY of our members that attended, came down with the plague?

There were roughly 160 people at InZane.  I have not heard of anyone that contracted the virus while there.  Masks were optional, not many wore them.  Personally, to respect their comfort level, I wore a mask if someone approached me wearing a mask.

[Willow]

          A little of topic, but now that Inzne has been over for a few weeks. Have ANY of our members that attended, came down with the plague?

There were roughly 160 people at InZane.  I have not heard of anyone that contracted the virus while there.  Masks were optional, not many wore them.  Personally, to respect their comfort level, I wore a mask if someone approached me wearing a mask.

I occasionally wore a mask in case a good stick up opportunity arose.  It just didn't happen that week.   

[Willow]

...
We are all going to die but why do we ride motorcycles, statistically speaking probably more dangerous than C-19
...

Truthfully U.S. motorcycle deaths have hovered around 5,000 per year.  That would make the MC deaths a fraction of the COVID-19 deaths however the deaths are occurring at different age groups so one would have to say that for many of us the chance of dying in a motorcycle accident is greater than the threat of COVID-19 death but for those above the age of 80 the chances would be reversed.

You mentioned herd immunity.  Many point out that they don't believe COVID-19 herd immunity will be reliable and they're waiting for a vaccine.  They fail to consider that the probability of an effective vaccine is tightly tied to the concept of herd immunity.

[Valkorado]

A safe, effective vaccine is tightly tied to the concept of herd immunity, without the weakest in the herd having to take one for the team.

[Willow]

A safe, effective vaccine is tightly tied to the concept of herd immunity, without the weakest in the herd having to take one for the team.

I guess I didn't express myself well.  I was trying to communicate the irony of some saying they didn't believe we would achieve "herd immunity" so they're waiting for a vaccine.  Herd immunity is based upon people developing antibodies that keep them from catching the disease.  An effective vaccine tricks the body into developing antibodies that keep them from catching the disease.   

I could be wrong.  Maybe someone with a medical education can tell me whether my understanding is correct.

[Valkorado]

A safe, effective vaccine is tightly tied to the concept of herd immunity, without the weakest in the herd having to take one for the team.

I guess I didn't express myself well.  I was trying to communicate the irony of some saying they didn't believe we would achieve "herd immunity" so they're waiting for a vaccine.  Herd immunity is based upon people developing antibodies that keep them from catching the disease.  An effective vaccine tricks the body into developing antibodies that keep them from catching the disease.  

I could be wrong.  Maybe someone with a medical education can tell me whether my understanding is correct.

Again, were on the same page.  Sort of.

I don't know who said they are putting aside life to wait on a vaccine.  Their loss I s'pose.

What I wrote is in line with your statement.  An effective vaccine indeed "tricks" the body into developing antibodies that help the person resist and fend off the disease.

So, it stands to reason that a vulnerable person who takes a safe and effective vaccine in all likelihood will not have to become infected and potentially get ill (my intended meaning of "take one for the team") in order to develop antibodies.  They wouldn't have to be concerned about "survival of the fittest".  They would feel safe again.  Life would return to normalcy and our economy would rebound at a quicker pace.  All good things.

So, IMHO a vaccine would most definitely be a better way to gain antibodies than acquiring COVID.

If folks are postponing life altogether and waiting for a vaccine, I guess that's their decision.  I'm not, but I do take some additional precautions nowadays.  Call me crazy.

[Rams]

A safe, effective vaccine is tightly tied to the concept of herd immunity, without the weakest in the herd having to take one for the team.

I guess I didn't express myself well.  I was trying to communicate the irony of some saying they didn't believe we would achieve "herd immunity" so they're waiting for a vaccine.  Herd immunity is based upon people developing antibodies that keep them from catching the disease.  An effective vaccine tricks the body into developing antibodies that keep them from catching the disease.  

I could be wrong.  Maybe someone with a medical education can tell me whether my understanding is correct.

Again, were on the same page.  Sort of.

I don't know who said they are putting aside life to wait on a vaccine.  Their loss I s'pose.

What I wrote is in line with your statement.  An effective vaccine indeed "tricks" the body into developing antibodies that help the person resist and fend off the disease.

So, it stands to reason that a vulnerable person who takes a safe and effective vaccine in all likelihood will not have to become infected and potentially get ill (my intended meaning of "take one for the team") in order to develop antibodies.  They wouldn't have to be concerned about "survival of the fittest".  They would feel safe again.  Life would return to normalcy and our economy would rebound at a quicker pace.  All good things.

So, IMHO a vaccine would most definitely be a better way to gain antibodies than acquiring COVID.

If folks are postponing life altogether and waiting for a vaccine, I guess that's their decision.  I'm not, but I do take some additional precautions nowadays.  Call me crazy.

   OK, just remember we'll do so at your request.   

Rams

[Valkorado]

    Folks have called me worse.

[Jersey mike]

At least we can agree to disagree on many things.  Respectfully.  

Three things we can certainly agree upon are being glad your wife's cousin's daughter is showing improvement, no COVID mandates and voting Republican.

Discharged yesterday and doing well. Not too many details just a simple group message out to the entire family. We don’t press for info, just take what is sent out as general info until they’re ready to talk in detail, it’s hectic for them at times.

[Rams]

At least we can agree to disagree on many things.  Respectfully.  

Three things we can certainly agree upon are being glad your wife's cousin's daughter is showing improvement, no COVID mandates and voting Republican.

Discharged yesterday and doing well. Not too many details just a simple group message out to the entire family. We don’t press for info, just take what is sent out as general info until they’re ready to talk in detail, it’s hectic for them at times.

Excellent news!  
As the numbers show, those with weaker immune systems  are at greatest risk and are the vast majority of victims.   Where or who those folks got their infection from is hard to track but, it's a good bet that it was from someone not practicing known guidelines.  

Rams

[Willow]

...   Where or whom those folks got their infection from is hard to track but, it's a good bet that it was from someone not practicing known guidelines.  

That's a bit of a jump isn't it?  Known guidelines haven't worked.  It's an assumption based on no facts.

[Rams]

...   Where or whom those folks got their infection from is hard to track but, it's a good bet that it was from someone not practicing known guidelines.  

That's a bit of a jump isn't it?  Known guidelines haven't worked.  It's an assumption based on no facts.

    I haven't jumped in years.   But, I'll go with an assumption that I feel very confident in.   

I don't pretend to be an English major or expert of any kind but, I'm thinking the use of who is subjective to my statement.   Whom could also be used but, I don't believe I'm incorrect in it's usage.   Since we seem to see this from different perspectives, I'll have to wait on a third party of expertise to settle that one.   

Rams

[Willow]

...   Where or whom those folks got their infection from is hard to track but, it's a good bet that it was from someone not practicing known guidelines.  

That's a bit of a jump isn't it?  Known guidelines haven't worked.  It's an assumption based on no facts.

    I haven't jumped in years.   But, I'll go with an assumption that I feel very confident in.   

I don't pretend to be an English major or expert of any kind but, I'm thinking the use of who is subjective to my statement.   Whom could also be used but, I don't believe I'm incorrect in it's usage.   Since we seem to see this from different perspectives, I'll have to wait on a third party of expertise to settle that one.    

I saw it as the object of a prepositional (from) phrase.  I could be wrong.  I'm not an English major either.  I didn't even graduate high school.

[Valkorado]

...   Where or whom those folks got their infection from is hard to track but, it's a good bet that it was from someone not practicing known guidelines.  

That's a bit of a jump isn't it?  Known guidelines haven't worked.  It's an assumption based on no facts.

    I haven't jumped in years.   But, I'll go with an assumption that I feel very confident in.    

I don't pretend to be an English major or expert of any kind but, I'm thinking the use of who is subjective to my statement.   Whom could also be used but, I don't believe I'm incorrect in it's usage.   Since we seem to see this from different perspectives, I'll have to wait on a third party of expertise to settle that one.  

Rams

Many dentists would argue that toothbrushes don't work well for those who* refuse to use them.  Thankfully cavities and gingivitis aren't contagious and deadly.

*Our is it whom?   ???

[Rams]

...   Where or whom those folks got their infection from is hard to track but, it's a good bet that it was from someone not practicing known guidelines.  

That's a bit of a jump isn't it?  Known guidelines haven't worked.  It's an assumption based on no facts.

    I haven't jumped in years.   But, I'll go with an assumption that I feel very confident in.    

I don't pretend to be an English major or expert of any kind but, I'm thinking the use of who is subjective to my statement.   Whom could also be used but, I don't believe I'm incorrect in it's usage.   Since we seem to see this from different perspectives, I'll have to wait on a third party of expertise to settle that one.    

I saw it as the object of a prepositional (from) phrase.  I could be wrong.  I'm not an English major either.  I didn't even graduate high school.

Dang it!

I even tried looking it up and still can't decide.  

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/who-vs-whom-its-not-as-complicated-as-you-might-think/#:~:text=Whom%201%20When%20to%20Use%20Who.%20In%20a,or%20preposition%3F%20...%204%20Who%20vs.%20Whom%20Quiz

Edited:   After further thought and following the previous guidance, I've decided your correction was inappropriate.     

Rams

[Moonshot_1]

My general thoughts on this are how the data and information are being presented.

The political leveraging. One of the best examples is officials prohibiting gatherings like church, funerals, weddings, etc, but the same officials make exceptions for protests and such.

We get daily counts of new cases and deaths as it relates to Covid 19. I don't see any corresponding data about daily recovery rates, asymptomatic cases, or severity levels of the cases. The data is largely presented as cases and deaths and one is given the perspective that they are one in the same, or at least the cases are pending deaths.

We don't see any daily, up to date counts on Cancer, Stroke, Heart Disease, or Diabetes, cases and deaths. I suppose they are out there. When I did try to look it seems those stats run about 2 years behind.
I am interested to see if these have remained constant and consistent with previous yearly/daily totals or if we will see a dramatic decline in those numbers.

If there is a dramatic decline there are only 2 options or reasons. Either the deaths by Cancer, Stroke, Heart Disease, etc are being counted as Covid deaths, or Covid is the therapeutic answer to Cancer, Stroke, Heart Disease and Diabetes. 

To me, masks are like religion. If believing in a religion gives you peace, makes you at ease in life, and makes you a better person, you will have my respect and support.
Same with someone who wears a mask. If you believe it protects you and others, if it gives you confidence in getting out in public or if you wish to require them at your home or business, the same thing, my respect and support. You have the freedom to make those choices.

I may not wish to come to your home or business if those things are required. I have that freedom too.

Seems that all we have accomplished is to be terrified, not of the virus, but of each other.
I refuse to accept that as the social norm.

I will shake your hand.
If you are pretty you can give me hugs. Oh, ok, the guys can too.
I will avoid sick people and if I'm sick I'll stay home, like we used to do.

Have had this perspective from the start.

[Willow]

... someone who wears a mask. If you believe it protects you and others, if it gives you confidence in getting out in public or if you wish to require them at your home or business, the same thing, my respect and support. ...
...   

I agree except for those wearing masks with their noses exposed.  Those folks get more amusement than respect from me.

...
Seems that all we have accomplished is to be terrified, not of the virus, but of each other.
...   

And that is the most significant damage being done.