Had it with the Vac Operated Petcock

[Rio Wil]

After rebuilding the petcock twice and this being the third failure, I decided to convert the petcock to manual and get rid of the vac. Made a simple plate out of some 1/8 inch brass and a fuel resistant gasket, tossed the diaphrams and vac housing, used the original screws and now no more fuel issues.  Just remember to manually turn off the fuel whenever stopped....and you can still use the original lever to switch from normal-off-reserve and don't have to reach way under the tank to find the pingle lever.  Hmmmm, just had the thought to cut a ring groove in the plate and use a o-ring instead of the gasket....like o-rings better...

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy111/wncbridges/valk-pictures/DSC07219.jpg
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy111/wncbridges/valk-pictures/DSC07218.jpg

[X Ring]

Rio, I didn't have much of a choice.  My petcock fell apartand couldn't be put back together again.  Instead of buying a used petcock or spending $109 + shipping for a new one from HDL Parts, I spent $90 shipped for a chromed Pingel from Eastern Performance.

Marty 

[Sodbuster]

Hmmmm, just had the thought to cut a ring groove in the plate and use a o-ring instead of the gasket....like o-rings better...

Maybe you could put together a little kit and sell them here .... 

[Patrick]

I don't blame you for getting upset with the stock petcock,, its completely understandable.. Changing to manual operation has been tried years ago and should still be in the archives somewhere.. Problem is, that wonderful little ball and seat can still leak and lead to fuel-lock if a float valve is sticking [ I've been there and bought the t-shirt].. I'm a big fan of Pingle valves..

[bigvalkriefan]

Hmmmm, just had the thought to cut a ring groove in the plate and use a o-ring instead of the gasket....like o-rings better...

Maybe you could put together a little kit and sell them here .... 

I second that. I'd be interested! I installed an electric fuel shutoff so your petcock solution would work great for me.

[Rio Wil]

X Ring.....I saw your petcock pic's and understand you going for the pingle....it also makes one think twice about letting the weight of the tank with fuel rest  on the petcock while setting on the bench.

Does anyone know the construction of the Pingle, what makes it a more  secure shut off mechanism than the ball method of the OEM.  If reasonable care is taken to let the OEM detent properly, it ought to be reasonably reliable and like I said, I like the convenience of the rinky dink on-off-res lever.

Maybe I should whip up 5-10 of these with the o-ring, if nothing else it would be a easy fix for being caught out on a trip and the vac version went kaput.

[John U.]

Rio, I'd be interested too, as you said, just in case.
John

[fudgie]

X Ring.....I saw your petcock pic's and understand you going for the pingle....it also makes one think twice about letting the weight of the tank with fuel rest  on the petcock while setting on the bench.

Does anyone know the construction of the Pingle, what makes it a more  secure shut off mechanism than the ball method of the OEM.  If reasonable care is taken to let the OEM detent properly, it ought to be reasonably reliable and like I said, I like the convenience of the rinky dink on-off-res lever.

Maybe I should whip up 5-10 of these with the o-ring, if nothing else it would be a easy fix for being caught out on a trip and the vac version went kaput.

My take on the shut off mechinism is its more like a gas stove shut off valve. No extra diaphram and stuff inside. Now I'm just guessing.

I rest the back of the tank on a 2x4 or such to take the weight off the valve.

[X Ring]

X Ring.....I saw your petcock pic's and understand you going for the pingle....it also makes one think twice about letting the weight of the tank with fuel rest  on the petcock while setting on the bench.

I never set my tank on a bench resting on the petcock.  I don't have a garage much less a shop.  I would place my tank on the tailgate of my truck with the back end of the tank over the edge and the petcock hanging.

Marty

[alph]

I’ve got to ask, what actually goes wrong with the petcock?

Could it be a bad vacuum line from the number six carburetor?

Is it a bad diaphragm in the petcock leaking vacuum?

Does the diaphragm have a crack?  Is that what’s leaking?  Can just the diaphragm be replaced?

I’ve checked mine, it appears to be a simple system, not much that can go wrong, so why does it seem so many are having problems?

Al.

[Sodbuster]

Are certain years more prone to petcock failure ??  I found something interesting.  Looked up part numbers on BikeBandit site and here's what I found - all for the standard (not sure what's going on with the '99 year). Did mother Honda make improvements to the later years ??

1997 PETCOCK ASSY - 227807-001
1998 PETCOCK ASSY - 227807-001
1999 PETCOCK ASSY - 5478851-001
2000 PETCOCK ASSY - 227807-001
2001 PETCOCK ASSY - 932477-001
2002 PETCOCK ASSY - 932477-001
2003 PETCOCK ASSY - 2916049-001

[Ricky-D]

Are certain years more prone to petcock failure ??  I found something interesting.  Looked up part numbers on BikeBandit site and here's what I found - all for the standard (not sure what's going on with the '99 year). Did mother Honda make improvements to the later years ??

When I was associated with Honda Motorcycle years ago, they had a jam up service rep system. They, the service reps, are probably the only resource that could get you an answer to that query. For sure no dealer will have the answer. Usually the dealer shouldn't have any reservation about giving you access to the service rep by way of an address or phone number.

***

[Kilroy]

I could not agree more with Tundra, I ride a 03 standard and had the classic " I'm out of gas action" when I had more than half a tank..  Did the rebuild, had the same thought as Tundra, went well for awhile then the symptoms returned.  Took the tank off and checked the rebuild, looked fine.  Not much later it happened twice in a fairly short ride.  Pingle will be installed as soon as I can get it here.... Just tired of screwing around.

Ride safe,
Kilroy

[Tundra]

Hi Dave, Let me know when your ready to ride. Current schedule would have to be a Saturday for me. Let me know, I''l put something together in advance based upon how much time you can afford. Hopefully it will warm up a little.

[Chrisj CMA]

The two problem areas with the OEM valve are as follows (my exerience YMMV)

1.  Diaphrams wear out, get sand in between them.....and if they dont hold vacume you get that running out of gas sensation because the maximum flow rate of the OEM valve is too close to the maximum need and that is when all is working as designed

2.  The detent/ball and spring method for "clicking" into on, off, and reserve is unreliable, so the gas may be on when its showing off or on reserve when you dont think it is.

The pingel has no detents or diaphrams, it just turns smoothly  from on to reserve to off and thats it.  Plus it is capabable of flowing WAY more fuel than the bike needs so the petcock will never be the actual high speed jet like the OEM valve tends to be if its starting to loose a diaphram

[junior]

with the higher flow rate of the pingle does it mean that i will use more gas? 

[fudgie]

with the higher flow rate of the pingle does it mean that i will use more gas? 

If you put beans in your chili you will. 

[Chrisj CMA]

with the higher flow rate of the pingle does it mean that i will use more gas? 

the engine will only draw as much gas as it needs.  If your old valve was starving the engine, you may detect a tiny increase of gas usage but a HUGE increase of performance

[junior]

with the higher flow rate of the pingle does it mean that i will use more gas? 

the engine will only draw as much gas as it needs.  If your old valve was starving the engine, you may detect a tiny increase of gas usage but a HUGE increase of performance

i own a H-O-N-D-A not a H-A-R-L-E-Y

[gordonv]

One thing I haven't heard yet, is when can I expect this failure to happen? Age, mileage?

I just bought a Valkyrie IS from Las Vegas, with 43K miles, and need to pick it up and ride it home the end of April, and can't afford to have this kind of preventable failure hapen while on my 1500 mile road tried. Should I get the dealer to quote and maybe replace it before I pick it up, or just chance it and do the job myself when I get it home?

[fudgie]

One thing I haven't heard yet, is when can I expect this failure to happen?

I would expect it to happen on the road away from home. As far as age, miles, etc, there are no answers. some have had no failures in 100K and some at 50k. Not sure about your bike. You know the condition better then us. Guess it wouldn't hurt to get a quote. They could test it for you probaly. Pingel is about $100. You could just get one and throw it in the bag for the trip home, in case.

[Willow]

One thing I haven't heard yet, is when can I expect this failure to happen? Age, mileage?

I just bought a Valkyrie IS from Las Vegas, with 43K miles, and need to pick it up and ride it home the end of April, ...

I have 148,600 miles on mine with no failures.

Petcock failures are extremely infrequent.  A number of very vocal fear mongers make it sound like it happens all the time.  It just isn't so.  I think some must be on Pingle's payroll.  

Of course, the infrequency is no consolation to you if you're one of the few that has it happen, and, as Fudgie says, if it's going to happen it will be while you're on the road.

For a 43K mile bike, don't give it a second thought.  Go get it and ride it home.  If you want to have a kit or replacement ready when you've got it home that will be good enough.

What may be a more troubling thought is that you have bought a bike that will be in Las Vegas until the end of April.  Be sure it doesn't set idle during that time with fuel in the carbs.

[98valk]

One thing I haven't heard yet, is when can I expect this failure to happen? Age, mileage?

I just bought a Valkyrie IS from Las Vegas, with 43K miles, and need to pick it up and ride it home the end of April, and can't afford to have this kind of preventable failure hapen while on my 1500 mile road tried. Should I get the dealer to quote and maybe replace it before I pick it up, or just chance it and do the job myself when I get it home?

my OEM vacuum diaphraph lasted from new approx 15k miles, to almost failure at 20k.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,3408.0.html

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,10058.0.html

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,7231.msg54893.html#msg54893

[paul]

Just thought I would reply for stats if nothing else...rode 49 miles today with the oem valve in the off pos......got  my regular half mile from home ,reached down to turn off fuel and saw I never turned it on...so I dont think Ill have trouble remebering to turn off...my 78 kz1000 and 03 flht both did the same crap......switched them over and so I guess the Valk will get the same treatment.....2001 I/S 37k miles....right at home on the eway.....

[paul]

Rode 49 miles today with my oem valve in the off pos.....Ive had this issue with my other bikes with vac petcocks....will change this one out also......2001 i/s 37k

[Ricky-D]

You could ride your Valkyrie for years and never know if you have a badly performing petcock.

It all would rely upon the float needles in the carburetors doing their job.

A failure there in the carburetor combined with a failing petcock can spell real trouble.

Paul found out his petcock was failing him, thankfully no additional problem ensued.

Do you know if your petcock is functioning properly.

A little testing can save you headaches and heartaches later on.

You know!!!!  "A word to the wise....."

***

[Willow]

You could ride your Valkyrie for years and never know if you have a badly performing petcock.
...
Do you know if your petcock is functioning properly.

A fair point.

All it takes to test that function is to turn the petcock into the off position while riding and see whether the bike shuts down within about two miles.  I do that fairly regularly.

[R J]

You could ride your Valkyrie for years and never know if you have a badly performing petcock.
...
Do you know if your petcock is functioning properly.

A fair point.

All it takes to test that function is to turn the petcock into the off position while riding and see whether the bike shuts down within about two miles.  I do that fairly regularly.

That makes 2 of us Carl.   Test it in the OFF position.

Only failure I had was when I 1st got it and sucked a hole in the vent hose.

Replaced the hose and now I change the hoses about 1 every 2 years.

[Rocketman]

Petcock failures are extremely infrequent.  A number of very vocal fear mongers make it sound like it happens all the time.  It just isn't so.  I think some must be on Pingle's payroll.  

Of course, the infrequency is no consolation to you if you're one of the few that has it happen, and, as Fudgie says, if it's going to happen it will be while you're on the road.

One of the features of a message board like that is that problems will get discussed very frequently, even when their incidence rate is very low.  It's a self-filtering problem.  I rarely post that my starter motor cranked as it should.  However, when my alternator craps out, I'll gripe about it, and ask for suggestions.
Additionally, failures are so unexpected (and in the case of a hydrolock, so painful) that they stick with me.  I had only one failure of a stock petcock, but I will still tell anyone who will listen about the experience.  [The reason I haven't had another petcock failure is that I've run a Pingel ever since.  Now I've earned my paycheck as a Pingel rep.     ]

Mark

[Wingman]

I changed over to Pingel at about 50K. I don't have any trouble remembering to shut mine off, because I have always shut off my fuel. I never had trouble with my OEM and I sometimes wonder if that was why (regular usage)!

I changed the OEM because I worried that it would fail, but I really like the quality feel of the Pingel and the peace of mind was worth it to me. All of the previous posts are valid takes on the subject, especially the one that notes that you must have two failures to hydrolock. Checking the OEM occasionally is not a bad idea and I also practiced that when I had one.

[Rio Wil]

Grinding a cutter to cleanly cut that little groove is a real pain in the azz!!!

[hubcapsc]

All it takes to test that function is to turn the petcock into the off position while riding and see whether the bike shuts down within about two miles.  I do that fairly regularly.[/i]

Shoot. I test mine when the tank is off, which is not very often. I hadn't thought of your very easy and probably
very accurate test...

Here's my favorite petcock picture...



-Mike "don't try this at home, or anywhere else for that matter"

[sheets]

I changed over to Pingel at about 50K. I don't have any trouble remembering to shut mine off, because I have always shut off my fuel. I never had trouble with my OEM and I sometimes wonder if that was why (regular usage)!

I changed the OEM because I worried that it would fail, but I really like the quality feel of the Pingel and the peace of mind was worth it to me. All of the previous posts are valid takes on the subject, especially the one that notes that you must have two failures to hydrolock. Checking the OEM occasionally is not a bad idea and I also practiced that when I had one.

Same with me.  I'm ritualistic about turning the gas on/off.  One time (years ago) I'd been on the road for 10 or more miles when I said to myself; self, I don't remember turning the gas "ON".  I reached down, and sure enough, it was still in the "OFF" position.  I ordered up the Pingel shortly thereafter.  Last summer the valve developed a small drip when moving the lever from off to on.  For $15 bucks they repaired it (I'm thinking replaced it) and shipped it back to me. 
Works for me.  Works good and looks very good.  Yrmv,        

[Rocketman]

All it takes to test that function is to turn the petcock into the off position while riding and see whether the bike shuts down within about two miles.  I do that fairly regularly.[/i]

Shoot. I test mine when the tank is off, which is not very often. I hadn't thought of your very easy and probably
very accurate test...

That test will catch the big leaks.  It won't catch the small ones (engine can't run on a trickle, so it shuts down as if the fuel is off).
I know the float valves, when leaking, only leak a little bit (usually), but that's enough when left overnight.  Does the petcock tend to be a binary system (either a major failure, or no failure), or does it tend to start by dripping just a little?  I don't know.
That being said, the test is a very good one, and I do it periodically myself.

Mark

[Ricky-D]

When I'm riding my Valkyrie with the gas on "off" , depending on my riding style I can go pretty far before a noticeable change in operation occurs.

The change then is very slight, like "what's going on" it doesn't seem to be running correctly.

If I continue on, then it will start to flutter and lose power, but still it will run.

It doesn't shut down the motor if the gas is off but rather starts to have individual carburetors run dry in the order they get their gasoline. Probably the ones further from the gas line first.

Just saying because I don't understand the reason for shutting the gas off prior to reaching the planned destination.

Seems a counterproductive exercise to me.

***

[Rio Wil]

Hee Hee.....found another way to cut that pesky little groove....

[John U.]

Looks nicely done and like it will work. Is the O-ring groove smooth, so it won't destroy the O-ring?

[Windjammer]

One thing I haven't heard yet, is when can I expect this failure to happen? Age, mileage?

I just bought a Valkyrie IS from Las Vegas, with 43K miles, and need to pick it up and ride it home the end of April, and can't afford to have this kind of preventable failure hapen while on my 1500 mile road tried. Should I get the dealer to quote and maybe replace it before I pick it up, or just chance it and do the job myself when I get it home?

I have about 70K on my 99 I.S. and have had the tank off at least 6 or 7 times in it's lifetime. (Original owner)
IMHO Don't fix if it isn't broke. Hmmmm I've heard that somewhere before?

[paul]

Me to ...rode 49 miles last week with the oem in the off position ...thought my pingler would be here today but didnt show.....what are yalls thoughts on that one?//only thing i can think is is flowing all the time.....no good....

[Tropic traveler]

HMMMM, lots of valid points.
Mine failed at 78,500 miles & gave me the dreaded hydrolock. No damage done, fixed the offending carb {along with a 6 carb clean out} then replaced the petcock with a brand new OEM. $96 from HDL. Also added a fuel filter as the primary cause of the hydrolock was gas tank rust holding open one carb needle & seat. Rusty tank has been dealt with also.
Kim's Valk had a non functioning petcock that caused no problems so I put a kit in my '97 petcock & replaced hers with it. Still working fine. Her Valk had sat a lot, ridden only 1700 miles in 7 years {!} so all things rubber were suspect & got replaced. 
Scott in FL bought his low mile '99 & he had a non functioning petcock the caused no trouble too. I noticed it when I did a diag ride on his bike.
Seems age has as much {or more} to do with failure as miles.
I like the functionality of the OE so I'll stick with it.... but there is a brand new one in my parts stash!



BTW, I like motorcycle tires, Rotella full synthetic oil AND OE Honda oil filters.