Clutch fluid gone..where do I start?

[DeathWishBikerDude]

60,000 miles and finally stuck on the road.
Shipped the bike home.
I've owned since new..runs like a scalded dog

Do I just replace clutch slave cylinder ?
Anyone done this repair?
Any tips appreciated.

[pancho]

Clutch slave is the first place I would check. Look under the bike and see if the rear cover below the slave has messed up paint, a sure sign the slave has been leaking. You can replace it complete or rebuild it if it is the problem, either way it is a straight forward job. Check the service manual.

Shipping it home must have been a bummer!

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Already ordered the new slave cylinder.
I'm a truck driver and took the bike down south and parked it at company terminal so I could ride more.
Fail.
Good news is I have a spare at home.
Buying a third valk tomorrow..just in case..lmfao

[hubcapsc]

Shipping it home must have been a bummer!

I lost my clutch a few weeks ago. I was only an hour from home. I
rode it home, less and less clutch at each stop sign. I know I
looked drunk in a couple of intersections.

I ordered parts to rebuild the master cylinder and the slave cylinder.
Some parts are unavailable and, even thought the vendor I chose
listed the master cylinder rebuild parts as "in stock", they are/were
on back order. The vendor didn't tell me, they just held the whole
order. I finally called, found out, and got them to ship what they
had.

One thing you can't get new anymore is a whole new master cylinder.
I bought a really nice looking one on ebay, I hope it is really nice
looking in real life. I bet there are other, available, master cylinders
that would do right on our Valkyries... not ready to experiment yet,
though...

I bought this K&L rebuild kit. I avoid aftermarket parts. This thing
looks OK, and I was happy to see that it is made in Japan as
opposed to some other places. Has anyone used any K&L
Japanese parts?



A couple more things still need to drizzle in (the OEM parts still
aren't here) before I do the rebuild...

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

Mike. You will have a blast seating that oil seal onto the piston. Call me before you loose yer cool and damage the seal if you get stuck. 85086553seven eight

Good luck

[hubcapsc]

Mike. You will have a blast seating that oil seal onto the piston. Call me before you loose yer cool and damage the seal if you get stuck. 85086553seven eight

Good luck

The one from the aftermarket rebuild kit?

I rebuilt the brake master cylinder with OEM parts a few years ago
and remember it was crazy hard to man-handle the seal in that kit...
finally I just forced it to go on, and it didn't damage it, and it has
worked ever since... was that probably the same kind of thing you're
talking about?

-Mike

[hubcapsc]

Since some stuff is getting harder to get, when my clutch
hydraulics went south I looked all around... besides the
K&L master cylinder rebuild kit, I looked on ebay and
found this for $75...



Hydraulics don't work on "looks", but it looks pretty darn
good. The little rubber cover that's exposed to the world makes
me hope the important rubber parts inside are good too:



I also got a whole slave cylinder plus fill tube (pipe assembly)
from Pinwal for $8... it is not here yet, but the pipe assembly is
"no longer available"...

I hope the OEM parts I could get come in today...

-Mike

[DeathWishBikerDude]

I feel better now that I'm not the only one with this problem..lmfao

[hubcapsc]

Yay! My parts came. In a separate envelope they even sent the master
cylinder kit that was on backorder, so now I have an OEM one and an
aftermarket one.



I'm glad to have the pretty clean looking Pinwall slave cylinder and
fill pipe. I can screw around with it some before I crawl down there
and remove my nasty one... I may just clean, rebuild and use it.



Hey deathwishbikerdude: have you looked down there at your
slave cylinder yet? The way mine looks I don't think there's any
mystery as to where my clutch fluid went...

-Mike

[DeathWishBikerDude]

My garage and driveway is packed with muscle cars and motorcycles..cant work on anything..at the moment.
I moved my spare valk to a friend's garage.
Gave away a z28 to a friend who watches my house and cuts my lawn..Im a truck driver..and gone often.
I'll need my friend to help me push the valk back into the garage..as my driveway is gravel.
I want to order everything I might need and complete the repair in one day.
?

[hubcapsc]

If you already got a whole new slave cylinder, you don't
need most of these parts, just 22886-MB4-305
to rebuild your master cylinder. Those screws I got
are for the master cylinder cover, I don't remember
why I got them, I think it was because they are so
cheap they need to be bought with a larger order
to keep from having to pay so much for shipping them.
They are not phillips screws, but JIS screws. The right
screw driver came in the Valkyrie tool kit - a regular
phillips screw driver will eat them up.

Those two washers are the crush washers for where
the bleed pipe connects to the slave cylinder body.



-Mike

[pancho]

Has anyone used any K&L
Japanese parts?


I used a petcock rebuild kit from them once,, seems like it only lasted a couple of years and when I disassembled it I found the diaphragm distorted, stretched and pin holed. Hopefully they have worked on their problems  and straightened them out.

As I look at the picture I realize I might have had an installation problem that caused the failure...?? maybe not a K&L problem?

[hubcapsc]

Has anyone used any K&L
Japanese parts?


I used a petcock rebuild kit from them once,, seems like it only lasted a couple of years and when I disassembled it I found the diaphragm distorted, stretched and pin holed. Hopefully they have worked on their problems  and straightened them out.

As I look at the picture I realize I might have had an installation problem that caused the failure...?? maybe not a K&L problem?

In a separate envelope, they sent me the OEM master cylinder rebuild kit that was on back order,
so I have both now... plus the really nice looking ebay master cylinder. Since you can't get them anymore,
I bought two each low mileage Pinwall clutch and front brake hydraulic lines too. If I ever have
a problem there, one of these will probably be good... five or I-don't-know-how-many years ago
when you could still get them, I put new OEM front brake lines on my bike.

-Mike

[hubcapsc]

Guess what is hard to get (besides "everything")... the Valvoline synthetic dot3/dot4
that I've been using the whole time I've had Valkyries is unavailable anywhere around
here. I got a couple of bottles of Prestone dot 4 and two bottles of Valvoline dot 4.
I'd gone almost everywhere in town before I saw any dot 4 at all, and it was at
Walmart. I checked the truck section over at Tractor supply after that, nothing.
I was dreading going back to Walmart when I thought about the Auto Zone so I
went there and found what I got....

-Mike

[SunshineNomad]

I just rebuilt my slave cylinder using the K&N kit. It wasn't as badly gummed up as I expected it to be. The only issue was my Prolift being close interfering with taking it off.  Cussing  helped as always.

[John Schmidt]

Here's something to think about; the master cylinders have a sight glass in them. Helps a person to keep an eye on both the level and condition of the hydraulic fluid within. 

[hubcapsc]

Here's something to think about; the master cylinders have a sight glass in them. Helps a person to keep an eye on both the level and condition of the hydraulic fluid within. 

My fluid was still really clear.

-Mike "extremely clear..."

[John Schmidt]

Here's something to think about; the master cylinders have a sight glass in them. Helps a person to keep an eye on both the level and condition of the hydraulic fluid within. 

My fluid was still really clear.

-Mike "extremely clear..."

Mike, that was more for the benefit of the OP. 

[hubcapsc]

Here's something to think about; the master cylinders have a sight glass in them. Helps a person to keep an eye on both the level and condition of the hydraulic fluid within. 

My fluid was still really clear.

-Mike "extremely clear..."

Mike, that was more for the benefit of the OP. 

What I'm saying is that my fluid was surprisingly clear because it was gone... 

Anywho... it was hard to get the slave cylinder off... the leakage
certainly melted the paint on my engine down there...

I got a Harbor Freight ultrasonic cleaner after spending a bunch
of time yesterday trying to clean my $8 ebay slave cylinder... It seemed
to work OK... I used some of that ultrasonic cleaner powder mixed with
water... does Simple Green or some such work way better?

I just took the slave cylinder off my bike from the ultrasonic cleaner,
it cleaned up really well... I guess the ebay one was just extra
nasty, maybe that guy didn't change his clutch fluid regularly  ...

Checkout this fiche picture for a 97 clutch, some bikes apparently
have 15 (mine), some have 16. When they pulled the ebay slave
cylinder it stuck in the piston instead of sticking in the clutch
so I have it... 16 is a lot shorter than 15... obviously some bikes
have the short one... I checked four or five other year's/bikes fiche
pages for the clutch, none had the short one... I wonder what
Valkyrie uses the short one?



-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

Here's something to think about; the master cylinders have a sight glass in them. Helps a person to keep an eye on both the level and condition of the hydraulic fluid within. 

My fluid was still really clear.

-Mike "extremely clear..."

Mike, that was more for the benefit of the OP. 

What I'm saying is that my fluid was surprisingly clear because it was gone... 

Anywho... it was hard to get the slave cylinder off... the leakage
certainly melted the paint on my engine down there...

I got a Harbor Freight ultrasonic cleaner after spending a bunch
of time yesterday trying to clean my $8 ebay slave cylinder... It seemed
to work OK... I used some of that ultrasonic cleaner powder mixed with
water... does Simple Green or some such work way better?

I just took the slave cylinder off my bike from the ultrasonic cleaner,
it cleaned up really well... I guess the ebay one was just extra
nasty, maybe that guy didn't change his clutch fluid regularly  ...

Checkout this fiche picture for a 97 clutch, some bikes apparently
have 15 (mine), some have 16. When they pulled the ebay slave
cylinder it stuck in the piston instead of sticking in the clutch
so I have it... 16 is a lot shorter than 15... obviously some bikes
have the short one... I checked four or five other year's/bikes fiche
pages for the clutch, none had the short one... I wonder what
Valkyrie uses the short one?



-Mike

Interesting. I just did seals and bearings. Didn’t even see that.

[RonW]

..... it was hard to get the slave cylinder off... the leakage
certainly melted the paint on my engine down there...

Off topic, but any rag or cloth used to wipe up brake fluid should be incinerated immediately. If it gets mixed up with the batch of used rags, it will take the paint off any surface it makes contact with. For example, if you grabbed a rag at random to wipe off some grease on a painted part of the bike and that rag was the rag with the brake fluid on it. Few minutes later, the paint starts to wrinkle to your horror.

[RustyValkry]

Guess what is hard to get (besides "everything")... the Valvoline synthetic dot3/dot4
that I've been using the whole time I've had Valkyries is unavailable anywhere around
here. I got a couple of bottles of Prestone dot 4 and two bottles of Valvoline dot 4.
I'd gone almost everywhere in town before I saw any dot 4 at all, and it was at
Walmart. I checked the truck section over at Tractor supply after that, nothing.
I was dreading going back to Walmart when I thought about the Auto Zone so I
went there and found what I got....

-Mike

Or you could just switch to dot5.  I did that on the RustyValkry as part of the resurrection.  Figured since all the calipers and masters were being rebuilt it was a good time.  My brake performed well on the ride north.

[hubcapsc]

I'm changing all my fluids too... but I already bought the dot 4. I like rustyvalkry's idear...

Here's my 15 year old master cylinder screws. I changed them when I got my bike,
they were eat-up from someone using a phillips on them...



Here's my el-cheapo probably 50 year old lefty-loosy-righty-tighty screwdriver that came
with a tray of all kinds of bits. It has been my "Valkyrie screwdriver" all this time. Those el-cheapo
autoparts-checkout-isle impulse-buy screwdrivers with the trays of all kinds of bits have
bits that fit great... I'm sure (without there being any documentation to back it up) the bit
I use is JIS... the trays aren't filled with "made up" bits, and there's not seven #2 phillips
in there either... there's one of "everything"...



-Mike

[Speedy Coop]

I also switched over to DOT 5 when I cleaned all the hydraulic systems.

[hubcapsc]

What a mess it was back there, the fluid that leaked out of the slave cylinder
got all over everything, turned black and ate paint. I cleaned it all up OK, replaced
my 15 year old quad horns with new ones, and replaced my old-fashioned stays-on
lift adapter with a MarkT one that I got at InZane last year...



I think everything is "tight" no leak at the speed bleeder (I wrapped a little
teflon tape on the threads like suggested) and no leak at either banjo
connection... I'll check again tomorrow and hopefully call it good...

I hope I haven't posted too much extraneous stuff in this thread I
didn't start  ...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I also switched over to DOT 5 when I cleaned all the hydraulic systems.

I thought DOT 5 wasn’t compatible with our bikes ?

What a mess it was back there, the fluid that leaked out of the slave cylinder
got all over everything, turned black and ate paint. I cleaned it all up OK, replaced
my 15 year old quad horns with new ones, and replaced my old-fashioned stays-on
lift adapter with a MarkT one that I got at InZane last year...



I think everything is "tight" no leak at the speed bleeder (I wrapped a little
teflon tape on the threads like suggested) and no leak at either banjo
connection... I'll check again tomorrow and hopefully call it good...

I hope I haven't posted too much extraneous stuff in this thread I
didn't start  ...

-Mike

Looks good 

[RustyValkry]

I'm changing all my fluids too... but I already bought the dot 4. I like rustyvalkry's idear...

Here's my 15 year old master cylinder screws. I changed them when I got my bike,
they were eat-up from someone using a phillips on them...



Here's my el-cheapo probably 50 year old lefty-loosy-righty-tighty screwdriver that came
with a tray of all kinds of bits. It has been my "Valkyrie screwdriver" all this time. Those el-cheapo
autoparts-checkout-isle impulse-buy screwdrivers with the trays of all kinds of bits have
bits that fit great... I'm sure (without there being any documentation to back it up) the bit
I use is JIS... the trays aren't filled with "made up" bits, and there's not seven #2 phillips
in there either... there's one of "everything"...



-Mike

When I got the RustyValkry, the PO had removed both stock handlebar master cylinder caps and replaced the clutch master cap with a change holder and the brake master cap with a clock.  I texted him after the fact and asked if he still had the original covers and he found them and sent them to me.  The aftermarket 'thingies' used very long screws so I needed to find some screws that would work with the originals caps so off to the hardware store I went.  Surprise, surprise!!!  I found phillips head screws that fit well enough that only someone who knows better could tell.

[Speedy Coop]

This is the second if not third Honda that I have used DOT 5 after disassembly and cleaning. No problems that I know of. No guarantee expressed or implied, use at your own discretion!

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

A basic explanation of the different brake fluids: https://blog.amsoil.com/dot-3-and-dot-4-brake-fluid-whats-the-difference/?zo=5889580

[Earl43P]

I found this interesting article:


https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2013/12/06/tech-101-brake-fluids-whats-different-about-them-and-why-should-you-care


/excerpt/ "DOT 5 is silicone-based brake fluid and is used in most new cars today. DOT 5 is expensive, but it has a dry boiling point of 356 degrees. Newer brake rotors tend to be smaller and thinner, which means they disperse heat a lot less efficiently. Also, DOT 5 does not absorb any moisture. DOT 5 will not harm painted surfaces and acts as a weather barrier for your brake system, preventing rust. DOT 5 can be used as an upgrade or replacement for both DOT 3 and 4, but should not be mixed with any of the other fluids. The procedures to convert your DOT 3 or 4 systems to the silicone-based DOT 5 are similar to the Dot 4 conversion procedure mentioned above. Silicone-based brake systems tend to be more difficult to bleed, but once this is accomplished, a DOT 5-filled system will resist rust better and last longer than the other formulations. Silicone brake fluid is also much lighter in cold temperatures, only about 900 weight at -40 F.
A new formulation has recently been developed called DOT 5.1. This fluid is identical to DOT 5 silicone in both boiling point and viscosity; however, it is compatible in the poly-glycol based systems and anti-lock brakes as well. DOT 5.1 can be used in place of either of the poly-glycol-based fluids even though it has half the viscosity of DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid. In fact, DOT 5.1 can be intermixed with the other non-silicone based fluids."




my slave cylinder leaks

[RustyValkry]

Good post Earl43P, that should help some folks down the road who come looking for info.  For me the consideration stopped when I learned dot 5 doesn't hurt paint.  Not absorbing water was icing on the cake.  In terms of being harder to bleed, I used a combination of drawing it into the calipers with my MityVac then finishing off from the master cylinder.

On my ride north from Daytona I payed attention to how the brakes felt with the Dot 5 and I wasn't disappointed or concerned, front brake felt good, rear brake felt . . . like a rear brake.  I'm an always both brakes all the time guy so there's no question the conversion from Dot 3 to Dot 5 worked out fine for me.

One point I should make here, since this thread IS about clutch, is the only hydraulic system that worked on the RustyVakyrie when I got it was the clutch.  All I did to the clutch was emptied the master cylinder, put in new fluid and flush/bleed it thoroughly.  I visually inspected the slave cylinder and noted it showed evidence of seeping but at first start up I found I had a clutch and it's been working well.  At first excuse I'll pull the slave cylinder off disassemble, clean and reassemble it, along with the master, flush the lines and convert the clutch to Dot 5 too.  Knowing the way my brain works I'm concerned to be using different fluid types in 2 systems on the bike.