Nitrogen in tires?

[Squatchmo]

The tire store that put the new tires on my car filled the tires with nitrogen, said I wouldn't have the pressure changes with hot/cold/hot weather like tires with air.  Is this something that could/is used in m/c tires?  Just curious.

[junior]

its a hoax and a waste of money, did they tell you not to top off your tire with reg air too?

[Scott from FL, now in Maine]

  LOL Not a hoax, scientific fact. Normal air will actually seep thru rubber over time and nitrogen molecules are larger and don't seep thru. In addition it does not retain heat as much so tires will run cooler all the time and pressure will fluctuate less. Never considered it on a bike tire before. I assume you would have the same result if you wanted to try it.   

[Daniel Meyer]

Normal atmosphere = 78% nitrogen.

[Scott from FL, now in Maine]

And 21% oxygen which are the smaller molecules that bleed thru rubber     So on a tire with 40 psi you can lose 8.4 psi from bleeding thru rubber. Not to mention the oxygen is what builds up heat as you ride. Don't get me wrong, I am not concerned enough to convert to nitrogen, but I do see it's potential. 

[Squatchmo]

Junior - no, he actually said I could top the tires off with air if I needed to, but that I shouldn't need to unless I have a slow leak.

[fudgie]

I rarley have to add air to my tires anyway. Just when I replace them.
Give it a try and see.

[lee]

OK I think I have it figured out.  If I put 40# of normal atmosphere (78% Nitrogen) in my tire.
And it leaks down to 38# the first week.  And I replace that lost 2# with normal atmosphere.
And the second week it only leaks down to 38.2# because there is less Oxygen to leak out.
Crap my pencil broke but I think if I keep pumping it back up to 40# each week with normal
atmosphere by spring (riding season) I will have 99.999% Nitrogen in my tire.  I think I will
do it this way so I don't have to pay for it.

[SgtBunny]

Well if you are ever in the WV area just drop me a line and I will fill your tires with nitrogen.  I have a tank and run it in everything I own.  Ever since I got home and started using it in my vehicles tires I have noticed a significant difference in not having to check the air in my tires due to the cold.

[T-Bird]

Compressed Nitrogen......LARGER MOLECULES    ( slower leakdowns )
                                  COOLER OPERATING TEMPS. ( every high performance race car uses it & every aircraft )
                                  100% MOISTURE FREE. ( ever notice that water is the first thing that comes out of a air compressor? )
        ( it is not a Hoax...it is a FACT! )
  I use it in every tire I own...even my wheelbarrow...LOL 

 Terry Akins
Owner & Ceo  
Akins Gas Company
Distributor of compressed nitrogen & Nitrofill ( #1 nitrogen filling system )

[Printer Mike]

OK I think I have it figured out.  If I put 40# of normal atmosphere (78% Nitrogen) in my tire.
And it leaks down to 38# the first week.  And I replace that lost 2# with normal atmosphere.
And the second week it only leaks down to 38.2# because there is less Oxygen to leak out.
Crap my pencil broke but I think if I keep pumping it back up to 40# each week with normal
atmosphere by spring (riding season) I will have 99.999% Nitrogen in my tire.  I think I will
do it this way so I don't have to pay for it.

This sounds like a winner!

[junior]

ok if you say so, so who has better coffee? starbucks or dunking donuts?

[Patrick]

OK, so how does one go about removing all the oxygen before sticking in the nitrogen  ??!!

[wdvalk]

filled mine with helium,made my bike lighter 

[RP#62]

Transport category aircraft are required to use nitrogen in their tires, but it has nothing to do with leak rate.  The pressure is checked and serviced if required on a daily basis anyway.  Its used to lessen the likelihood of explosion due to the oxygen reacting with solvents in the tire.  Tire pressures are greater than 100 psi and they get a lot hotter than mc tires.
-RP

[Chrisj CMA]

If I fill the tires with helium will it be easier to pop a wheelie?   Oh, laffing gas, that way the HD,s will just laugh as I fly by instead of getting mad.........

LOL, in all seriousness, this topic goes roound and round, and people are still selling and buying nitrogen for tires, so there must be something they like about it.  I just dont see a big benifit....not having to check your tires for longer because of bleed trough is NOT a benifit, because a small nail will let lots of nitrogen out and you still should check tire pressure before each big ride and once a week or so regardless of gas (in the tires)

[Patrick]

A couple things..
1. RP beat me to it,, he is correct in saying that not all aircraft tires require or use nitrogen and the reason why..
2. Helium, I used it once to get a lower insurance rate on a Triumph way back when I was a kid and didn't have any money.. I had to get a weight slip of under 300# and the helium did it..
3. I'm another that doesn't use nitrogen and I doubt I ever will.. However, if it can be proven to me that nitrogen eliminates the bead corrosion on aluminum wheels I may become a believer.. I'm getting real tired of cleaning/grinding/sealing beads and I'm beginning to really really dislike alloy wheels..

[2qmedic]

The requirements for commercial aircraft are correct.
Nitrogen is more a stable gas,
Nitrogen has no moisture content,
Compressed air has water moisture which increases the rubber deterioration process and supports the  corrosion process.
Not having oxygen (oxygen supports combustion process, IE corrosion on medals, decay of vegetation) perhaps the corrosion of your rims will cease.  ???
Hmmmm,
   and most folks think that fire fighters only have to know about squirting water!!!

[Robert]

Well my experience with nitrogen has been so so. Of all the cars that I have seen that have nitrogen in them all have been low on pressure and I dont know how long its been since they filled up but since I didn't buy a nitrogen machine to the tune of 6k I ask if they want to fill their tires with air and they all say yes. Have I seen a difference in the tires that have nitrogen not really nothing that I can say wow that's really great. In Florida it dosent do much good to put nitrogen in the tires and then have them dry rot from the outside so you may or may not get the mileage out of them. As I said the machine is 6k I know I could order a tank of nitrogen and fill that way but like I said I really dont see a difference. I like to check my tires at least once a week of all the tires that I have seen go down in that time all have had a problem. Either through a nail or some defect in the tire itself including Avons on my Valk. In fact one time I call Avon with this issue got a girl on the phone and lets just say she must have been paying for the tires out of her own pocket other wise Avon has been excellent with customer service. If I am out on the road and have a problem and want to refill my tires I am not going to take the time to ride around and find who has a nitrogen station so to me its just more aggravation and the benefit is minimal. I do believe what they say about the benefits but at this time the convenience factor is not there. Compressed air by nature is pretty dry by way of the fact that under compression the water is pulled out of the air and if you add a dryer it can even be more so. If you use a silicon lubricant on the tire rims it helps with corrosion or even a light grease that doesn't react with the rubber in the tires. The tire composition we are getting lately doesn't really seem to be as good as it should be either. Most brands like Dunlop, Goodyear, Brigstone, Pirelli and more are making the tires out of a compound that  really gets hard after wearing in a bit. Yes you do get the mileage out of them but with some your teeth rattle over each bump. These are the same tires that in the rain seem to not hold either. The worst are the ones that dont give you the mileage wear out like Parnelli Jones is driving and dont hold the road either. The average buyer would not be able to decide between tires because its like anything else it takes the experience to see the results of different tires on different cars in different situations. The average tire store only  cares about putting the tires on your car that the management has said are good and so you get the tires that make the most money for them.  To make matters even more confusing some manufactures own the tires shops so you dont know what the recommendation is. So after weighing in all the factors I mentioned here I think the major help in tires is experience with a brand and the manufacturer themselves and not the gas you fill up your tires with. There is another post about the dot date on the tires too, I should respond on that post but I wanted to say it is important to check the dot date on the tires you are getting, why. Well tire manufactures do warranty tires and sometimes its a time issue. Meaning if your tires have a production date in 05 and you just put them on your car and have a problem with them your stuck if the manufacturer is only warranty their tires for 2 or 3 years and this is regardless of installation or purchase date and it is by each manufacturer. Also if you order tires on line check the date when you receive the tires big tire company's buy out lots of tires and in these lots there are many different dates. I mention this with Tire Rack in mind good company generally just check the tires you get. So although your tires are new to you they may have been sitting in Joes garage for all that time baking and curing. Tires dont stop curing after they are made and they dont stop drying out either. They are made of oil and if that oil dries out that tire will not perform like it should. Think of it like opening a can of oil and putting it on the shelf for a few years would you use that oil? So to with your tires. With the evaporation of oil and curing of the tires it changes the tires characteristics and can lead to tread separation which most dont have a visible sign till the tires blow and you are riding on the rims and will never be able to determine the causes of the problem. Last Manufactures update tire design composition and tread if you get old tires you will be getting the last model and maybe not the newest available. Kind like buying the first production run on a motorcycle or car you know there are going to be changes till they get things right. Again this also speaks of knowing the tires and the manufacture. The Valk was out a  few years and changes were made we know the changes well know the changes to the tires you buy. Sorry if this went on so long but I had some time on my hands for a change and wanted to cover the bases.

[Brad]

ok if you say so, so who has better coffee? starbucks or dunking donuts?

If your drinking a lot of the stuff you need to find out which one has a nicer bathroom 

[junior]

ok if you say so, so who has better coffee? starbucks or dunking donuts?

If your drinking a lot of the stuff you need to find out which one has a nicer bathroom 

dunking donuts does, or atleast in my neck of the woods they are 

[Tx Bohemian]

My take on Nitrogen is (after researching online when the daughter bought a Jeep that advertised Nitrogen in the tires) there isn't that many benefits and some non-benefits that are worse.  (at least to me)

Like not being able to mix regular air so then having to search out a nitrgen station, especially if your traveling.

Supposily it doesn't deteriorate the inside of tires but, come on, with the tires nowadays when did anyone have to replace a tire because of "internal deterioration"??  I have a '06 Trailblazer with 44K and the last time I washed it I noticed the outside sidewalls are cracking but the tread probably has another 10K left.

I too check my tires at least once a month. This way I'd be able to monitor if I have a leak.

So to me it's just not worth the hassle.

[Farther]

Like not being able to mix regular air so then having to search out a nitrgen station, especially if your traveling..

  I think you are mis-informed.

[Tx Bohemian]

Like not being able to mix regular air so then having to search out a nitrgen station, especially if your traveling..

  I think you are mis-informed.

How so?  Mixing the air or searching out a station w/nitrogen?

[Farther]

Both, you don't need to search out a nitrogen station or be concerned with mixing.  Ambient air is already a nitrogen mix so just topping off a nitrogen filled tire with ambient air does it no harm.

[1fastbob]

My take on nitrogen in tires.......    I think that the benefits are so very very slight that it is just a money making enterprise for the people selling it.  It's benefits are as argued over as types of motor oil are. It is good for aircraft tires and high speed race car tires, but my Valyrie, Roadliner and Mustang are not race vehicles and they don't fly so any benefit from nitrogen in the tires would be extremely slight. I have never in my 40 years of vehicle ownership had any tire or wheel damaged due to moisture or oxygen inside a tire.  I have never had a tire burst into flames when landing or driving fast. I don't mind checking the pressure in my tires monthly and topping them off. I have an air compressor and know how to use it. I will not under any circumstances pay for a nitrogen fill and I would discourage others from doing so .  This is my opinion and your mileage may vary.  

Bob

[Farther]

it is just a money making enterprise for the people selling it...

  My auto tire dealer puts it in at no extra charge.  I guess he just loves me!

[Jeff K]

it is just a money making enterprise for the people selling it...

  My auto tire dealer puts it in at no extra charge.  I guess he just loves me!

If you take your car to a dealer for service the "extra charge" is built in.

My service guy is great! I never over charge myself. 

[Rocketman]

OK, so how does one go about removing all the oxygen before sticking in the nitrogen  ??!!

I recommend very small tweezers.

One more vote for "the benefits are so slight as to be pointless, if not non-existent."

[Tx Bohemian]

Both, you don't need to search out a nitrogen station or be concerned with mixing.  Ambient air is already a nitrogen mix so just topping off a nitrogen filled tire with ambient air does it no harm.

Sooo, then why go through all this if it's ok to just put regualr air in?

I guess I'm missing something here!

[ssober]

I run nitrogen in my drag bike for the reason of it doesn't react to heat changes and expand as bad as air and since I am racing for consistency I want something that is going to react the same.  I have race running normal air and have not noticed much difference but i am not that good of a racer I guess.

[1fastbob]

I run nitrogen in my drag bike for the reason of it doesn't react to heat changes and expand as bad as air and since I am racing for consistency I want something that is going to react the same.  I have race running normal air and have not noticed much difference but i am not that good of a racer I guess.

Are you saying you need all the help you can get?

LOL

Bob

[ssober]

You are correct and sometime people call me bob.

[Squatchmo]

Wow, talk about opening up a can of worms!  Thanks for all the replies, but I'm more confused than ever to be honest.

First, I chose the tire fella b/c I had called all over the area and he had the cheapest tires available and did not charge for the nitrogen (nor did I know about it until afterwards, but no biggie for me).  I have a 13 year old car with 265K mi. and didn't want to get expensive tires b/c I'm hoping to replace it soon.

Second, I should have asked the tire fella how much he charges for the stuff, didn't even think about that.

Third, and this is the real question:  I have to check my tires weekly as well and I try to make sure I have the correct pressure in them at all times... but I do get lazy / neglectful sometimes.  I have heard a lot of people preach about the importance of correct psi, but when nitro is mentioned, a lot of you seem to be saying, "yeah, it does better with responding to heat / cold, but it's not worth it really"... well, how can it not be if psi is important?  Not quite understanding the logic there, but maybe I'm off base, I don't know.  I want to ride Saturday, first time it will be warm enough in a month, and I will continue to use good ol' oxygen for now and consider nitogen in the future.

Again, thanks for the responses, very interesting reading.

[1fastbob]

Bottom line....ALL tires slowly leak air.  Nitrogen may or may not leak more slowly, but they all leak.  This of course requires pressure checks. If you are considering nitrogen cause you would like to  do pressure check less frequently, then don't use it.  What if you run over a small nail or something and get a slow leak.  Nitrogen will not help that.  Frequent tire checks especially on a motorcycle are a must.

[1fastbob]

You are correct and sometime people call me bob.

I'll bet they only call you Bob when they are reallly mad it you.

[Paul Carver]

I agree with the folks that believe in nitrogen. I also have not had to add any air to my tires since switching. I am told that all race cars use this system ... and they know their business and try to get every edge they can. If the tires are running cooler, and you can verify this with simply putting your hand on the tire after many miles, the advantage to longer-life tires is inevitable.
Most dealers that charge you for the initial set-up will top it off for nothing at a later date. Give it a try!

[Tx Bohemian]

the advantage to longer-life tires is inevitable.

How much longer-life are you talking here??

As I stated here my '06 Trailblazer w/44K miles still has the original tires (air filled) and still has probably another 10K to go and then will be changed due to tread wear.  Don't think whatever gas I put inside is going to affect that, right?

Or again, am I missing something here? Or is 50-55K miles not good on a set of tires nowadays??

[John U.]

Compressed Nitrogen......LARGER MOLECULES    ( slower leakdowns )
                                  COOLER OPERATING TEMPS. ( every high performance race car uses it & every aircraft )
                                  100% MOISTURE FREE. ( ever notice that water is the first thing that comes out of a air compressor? )
        ( it is not a Hoax...it is a FACT! )
  I use it in every tire I own...even my wheelbarrow...LOL 

 Terry Akins
Owner & Ceo  
Akins Gas Company
Distributor of compressed nitrogen & Nitrofill ( #1 nitrogen filling system )

I have some questions that maybe someone smarter than me can help with. I understand that nitrogen is relatively inert compared with oxygen, and that it contains no moisture.
My question concerns the larger molecule claim. My understanding is that nitrogen is present in the atmosphere as a 2 atom molecule (N2), so is oxygen (O2) and carbon dioxide of course is a 3 atom molecule CO2.  Each atom of nitrogen has an atomic number of 7, meaning it has 7 protons and 7 electrons, and an atomic mass of 14 which means it has 7 nuetrons with the protons in it's nucleus. By comparison, oxygen has an atomic number of 8 and a mass of 16. Carbon is the lightest with a number of 6 and a mass of 12, but it is part of a larger molecule since there are 2 oxygen atoms with it. So, if I understand all this, it means that the nitrogen molecule has the smallest molecule of the main atmospheric gasses. This should mean that it leaks out of a tire faster.
So, thats all the high school chemistry for this post. Am I miss understanding something?

[SgtBunny]

Molecular weight verses atomic diameter are different.

While Nitrogen has less mass, it has a triple bond which causes the actual molecule to be larger than a double bonded oxygen pair.

O2 has a covalent radius of 66 pm where N2 has a covalent radius of 71 pm.