Went to buy a Toyota...

[G-Man]

It's a lousy time to buy because everything out there is

UGLY ! ! ! ! ! !

There are no more really nice looking automobiles, for under $100,000 anyway.  Some companies got rid of cars altogether and now only sell SUVs.  And let's face it, SUV's are minivans with a nose, except for the larger ones that run better than $80,000.

No more style, no more elegance, can't tell them apart until you're 3 feet away. 

Think about it, has an automobile turned your head and made you think "That's really nice" in the last 10 years?

[..]

There are no more really nice looking automobiles, for under $100,000 anyway.  Some companies got rid of cars altogether and now only sell SUVs.  And let's face it, SUV's are minivans with a nose, except for the larger ones that run better than $80,000.

I followed a nice looking new Tahoe the other day. It looks like it has the same ground clearance as my Mazda 3 hatchback!

EDIT Tahoe 7 inches
My Mazda 6 inches.

[Jess from VA]

Now that we are bitching, what I cannot stand is any front grilles that look like these.  

They all look like cars being driven around that need new front end clips on them (after an accident).



This is what the front of a car should look like, with a real steel bumper.  And street thugs beware.

[Serk]

Scrolling down, the image of the Lexus was cut off like this, and I'm thinking "What's he kvetching about, that looks pretty nice!"



And then I scrolled down and wondered who slapped a Lexus logo on a large mouth bass...

(But both look WAY better than that old junker you posted a pic of after the Lexus.... To each their own and all that, but meh...)

[Patrick]

It's a lousy time to buy because everything out there is

UGLY ! ! ! ! ! !

There are no more really nice looking automobiles, for under $100,000 anyway.  Some companies got rid of cars altogether and now only sell SUVs.  And let's face it, SUV's are minivans with a nose, except for the larger ones that run better than $80,000.

No more style, no more elegance, can't tell them apart until you're 3 feet away. 

Think about it, has an automobile turned your head and made you think "That's really nice" in the last 10 years?

3 feet away !   Heck, thats great. I need to put my glasses on and read the name plate.  I used to be a car guy, apparently not anymore.

[Jess from VA]

(But both look WAY better than that old junker you posted a pic of after the Lexus.... To each their own and all that, but meh...)

I just picked the '59 Caddie grille as an extreme the other way.  But something on that end of the design table is better than the big open hole of the Lexis (and others)

But my real compliant is computers and chips; I am sick if the unreliability and high cost all that stuff brings;  a great deal of which is unnecessary to any basic automobile.   

Put out a simple half ton pickup and/or 4dr family sedan, with decent power, roll up windows, solid steel body and frame, and all solid basics, designed to last 20 years.   For a fair price.

And abolish the EPA. 

[Patrick]

(But both look WAY better than that old junker you posted a pic of after the Lexus.... To each their own and all that, but meh...)

I just picked the '59 Caddie grille as an extreme the other way.  But something on that end of the design table is better than the big open hole of the Lexis (and others)

But my real compliant is computers and chips; I am sick if the unreliability and high cost all that stuff brings;  a great deal of which is unnecessary to any basic automobile.  

Put out a simple half ton pickup and/or 4dr family sedan, with decent power, roll up windows, solid steel body and frame, and all solid basics, designed to last 20 years.   For a fair price.

And abolish the EPA.  

Yep, who really needs all these new do-dads !  

The car I drive the most on nice warm days is 90 years old. It always starts and gets me to coffee every morning.

[cookiedough]

Now that we are bitching, what I cannot stand is any front grilles that look like these.  

They all look like cars being driven around that need new front end clips on them (after an accident).



This is what the front of a car should look like, with a real steel bumper.  And street thugs beware.

I agree on the HUGE front plastic grills on all vehicles nowadays sorta look like a giant catfish mouth if you ask me.   That is the trend apparently now as well as smaller displacement engines with twin turbos or hybrid-electric, both of which have not grown on me yet at all.  I doubt in 10 years you will find any vehicle with a v8 engine in them anymore brand new.  I bet near 1/2 will be hyrbrid or all electric in 10 more years.  Welcome to the future I guess???   

The chevy tahoes/silverados have those massive plastic lower panels in front reducing ground clearance by a ton until they rip off hitting a curb, etc.    The new 2022 tundra has them but apparently they are tucked up underneath and deploy down only at hwy. speeds for more aerodynamics,  yet another thing to break on them.

[Hook#3287]

I'm considering trading my caddy srx in for something new and have ruled out Toyota due to availability and price.  Excellent quality on most models.

That Lexus SUV has always impressed me for its quality and reliability, but that grill is just fugly.

So I'm thinking Honda and the new Acura 22 MDX. (I'd post a pic but it's a pain on my iPad)

Honda engineering,  built in USA (sound familiar?) and the grill doesn't suck.

Price is lower than most of its competitors.

Plus, did I mention Honda quality?

Availability is 2-3 months out on a ordered one, but there's many available in the northeast.

[Serk]

So I'm thinking Honda and the new Acura 22 MDX. (I'd post a pic but it's a pain on my iPad)

My current primary cage is a 2006 MDX with around 210,000 miles on it...

It's had a few issues over the years, biggest was a spark plug exploded and ripped the threads out of the engine around 180,000 miles. We were about to donate it to charity when I learned about Heli-Coils, did that (Which was a pretty big deal for a keyboard smasher like myself!) and kept on trucking in it...

I love it, it's now officially at beater status so I can engage the 4 wheel drive and bounce around my land in it and doesn't matter if it gets scratched up.

And big enough to take the whole family (Triplets and all) on cross country trips. (Although it's status as a cross country family truckster has been superseded by a newer Swagger Wagon (minivan)).

[Rams]

While I have needs requiring a slightly greater payload than any of the vehicles mentioned previously in this thread (I drive a one ton Ram with a Cummins), we have been so impressed with the two different Honda Ridgelines we have had that if I were to purchase a secondary vehicle for myself, the Ridgeline would definitely be my first consideration.

But, on my recent trip to attend the DRU, I just happed to get past by what I initially thought was a new version of the Ridgeline but it wasn't.   This vehicle had dealer tags on it and caught my attention with it's innovated styling.   It was a Hyundai Santa Cruz.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/santa-cruz?chid=sem&fb=&CID=%25ebuy!&PID=%25epid!&CRID=%25ecid!&SID=%25esid!&AID=%25eaid!&ds_query=hyundai+santa+cruz&gclid=107554d928d2169ea4073592061425c7&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=107554d928d2169ea4073592061425c7

I realize it's not a vehicle for everyone and honestly don't know anything about it other than I like the looks and like a utility type vehicle.  YMMV

Edited:  A bit of investigation reveals that the "Premium" version of the Santa Cruz has a 2.5 L turbo set up.   That might be fun. 

Rams

[scooperhsd]

I have zero desire to own a "hypebrid" or (worse) an all electric vehicle. I also hate CVT transmissions , would greatly prefer a manual to ANY kind of automatic, but if I HAVE to get an automatic - KISS is the operating principle. I may end up with a truck for my next (and last) vehicle, and that would be OK - I don't need the super fancy luxery interiors however.

[Patrick]

I'm right there also about electric or hybrids. Especially CVTs. I notice the small Hondas now are CVT and I like Honda, but, won't own one with that transmitter. I've looked at the Odyssey, no CVT.

I looked at the Pacifica and one I looked at was a hybrid which had an electric plug.

[G-Man]

Have 2006 Mercury Montego with a CVT.  170,000 miles, transmission not serviced once.

When I bought the car, salesman was showing me around under the hood and I asked where the tranny dipstick was.  He said "It's a CVT transmission.  It's self contained and needs no servicing".  I made a mental note of that.  At my first service at the dealer, I aske the service writer about checking the tranny fluid and he said "It's a CVT transmission.  It's self contained and needs no servicing".  Hearing it twice, I believed it and forgot about it.  The one day, I was browsing around Youtube and for kicks, entered 2006 Montego CVT and I found a couple of hits regarding this topic.  Turns out there is a transmission dipstick underneath the airbox which needs to be removed.  So I did so and found the dipstick which was frozen solid after 160,000 miles.  I sprayed it with WD-40 and let it sit for a while, but still no movement.  A few hours later I tried to twist a but with the help of a vice grip and broke the top ring off of the dipstick.  I put the airbox back on and pretended like it never happened. 

[Rams]

I have zero desire to own a "hypebrid" or (worse) an all electric vehicle. I also hate CVT transmissions , would greatly prefer a manual to ANY kind of automatic, but if I HAVE to get an automatic - KISS is the operating principle. I may end up with a truck for my next (and last) vehicle, and that would be OK - I don't need the super fancy luxery interiors however.

Honestly, I don't care about hybrid or electric, I figure the world is going that way whether I like it or not but, I do draw the line with the CVT transmission.   When that's the only choice, I guess I'll be burning a lot more diesel in my one ton.   Maybe by the time that happens, they'll make them more reliable.  My crystal ball is simply not that good.

Rams

[Patrick]

Have 2006 Mercury Montego with a CVT.  170,000 miles, transmission not serviced once.

When I bought the car, salesman was showing me around under the hood and I asked where the tranny dipstick was.  He said "It's a CVT transmission.  It's self contained and needs no servicing".  I made a mental note of that.  At my first service at the dealer, I aske the service writer about checking the tranny fluid and he said "It's a CVT transmission.  It's self contained and needs no servicing".  Hearing it twice, I believed it and forgot about it.  The one day, I was browsing around Youtube and for kicks, entered 2006 Montego CVT and I found a couple of hits regarding this topic.  Turns out there is a transmission dipstick underneath the airbox which needs to be removed.  So I did so and found the dipstick which was frozen solid after 160,000 miles.  I sprayed it with WD-40 and let it sit for a while, but still no movement.  A few hours later I tried to twist a but with the help of a vice grip and broke the top ring off of the dipstick.  I put the airbox back on and pretended like it never happened. 

Yours was an AWD then. And you're right. The ZF made transmission was  a good one, very few problems and most folks did like it.  I've always tended to like ZF transmissions.

[Patrick]

Being old and set in my ways, I started to do some quick reading on CVTs. I think I still dislike them, but, am starting to maybe change my mind which is surprising. Newer versions, ECVTs seem to be correcting the previous problems. These are electrically controlled geared units, no belt, and seem to be pretty reliable. Now I'm interested, so, gotta go and do some more reading.

[cookiedough]

Being old and set in my ways, I started to do some quick reading on CVTs. I think I still dislike them, but, am starting to maybe change my mind which is surprising. Newer versions, ECVTs seem to be correcting the previous problems. These are electrically controlled geared units, no belt, and seem to be pretty reliable. Now I'm interested, so, gotta go and do some more reading.

I think almost all subaru's are CVT trannies and some Honda vehicles as well like the popular CRV (suv). IMO older models had issues but most current ones should be fine although driving characteristics are personal tastes I still prefer a 6 speed normal shifting transmission.

Tonight went to order new brake pads/rotors front and rear for my tundra I am trading in since dealer is giving me 800 extra on trade in if get new pads/rotors and rockauto.com did not have my coated rotors (front ones) in stock so said heck with it and went dirt cheap all the way around non coated rotors ONLY 220 bucks for everything including shipping vs. at all auto parts stores around 450 parts.   Hope the cheapo stuff lasts 30 days or so?  Depending on time on next 3 weekends,  I might use that extra 200+ savings and let an auto shop do the pads/rotors for me, will see?  Shop takes 2 hours but for me would be a full weekend both days project am sure.   cheapest labor I found was 150 at farmfleet 2nd cheapest around 190 labor. 

Now watch,  the new 2021 tundra V8 in black will come in damaged or dealer sell it on me even though gave them 500 bucks to hold it for me once it arrives in October.  (prefer gray but gotta take what any toyota dealer will get in right now in my exact trim/options I want since all incoming orders will be done and over with by end of October everywhere due to retooling of all new 2022 twin turbo V6).  Black is at least metallic finish but not my preference but better than white for sure IMO. 

Cannot wait to see pricing on the all new 2022 tundra and compare 2021 SR5 price to 2022 identical SR5 trim.  I bet goes up more than 2-3%, will see sometime in October as well once pricing comes out.    First year runs on any new all new redesigned vehicle usually have issues and pretty sure twin turbo V6 and all new 10 speed tranny will have bugs to work out vs. the dinosaur tried and true V8 with 6 speed tranny.

I also want to see pricing on 2022 tundra in a crewmax 6.5ft bed finally getting my ideal cab/bed configuration I have wanted since 2007.  I think that will be over 50K msrp though - yikes...

As others have said,  great time to sell but not so good of a time to buy.  I did see tonight craigslist a GREAT buy (or so I think) on a 2000 tundra limited trim ext. cab 6.5ft bed ONLY 130K miles 4wd and not too bad rusted out called owner said owned 6 years no issues everything works as it should.  For only 3750 though where most going for 5-8K and much higher mileage,   I wonder if too good to be true?  He seemed legit over the phone and since only 3750 price,  if not sold by Saturday will see driving 2 hours to test drive it.  My kid wants a truck and a lot of older 4.7L V8 tundras go 300K miles as long as the frame/body is not all rusted out well before then.   If can get for 3750 and will last another 100K miles,  got the money's worth out of it much like his pontiac vibe paid 4K five years ago put on mostly trouble free 60K miles on it so far hoping to be a 200K mile car only 35K miles to go to hit 200K.   I see a TON of old Pontiac vibes for sale having well over 200K miles still asking 2 to 3K or so.

[Patrick]

It doesn't take much to change brakes. Clean up, lube the caliper slides, new pads and rotors. It doesn't take too long. I use gold or platinum pads and rotors.

[Hook#3287]

It doesn't take much to change brakes. Clean up, lube the caliper slides, new pads and rotors. It doesn't take too long. I use gold or platinum pads and rotors.

I just did all 4 rotors and pads on my SRX and I think it took about 3 hours.

Piece a cake.

I had a lift for my use, so that made it easier.

[f6john]

It doesn't take much to change brakes. Clean up, lube the caliper slides, new pads and rotors. It doesn't take too long. I use gold or platinum pads and rotors.

Damn, gold and platinum don’t seem like they would be good material for rotors or pads!! It would be a shame to cover then up with wheels.

[Patrick]

It doesn't take much to change brakes. Clean up, lube the caliper slides, new pads and rotors. It doesn't take too long. I use gold or platinum pads and rotors.

Damn, gold and platinum don’t seem like they would be good material for rotors or pads!! It would be a shame to cover then up with wheels.

Maybe they aren't good materials, but, they sure make them expensive !  Isn't more expensive more better ? 

[f6john]

It doesn't take much to change brakes. Clean up, lube the caliper slides, new pads and rotors. It doesn't take too long. I use gold or platinum pads and rotors.

Damn, gold and platinum don’t seem like they would be good material for rotors or pads!! It would be a shame to cover then up with wheels.

Maybe they aren't good materials, but, they sure make them expensive !  Isn't more expensive more better ? 

I’m sure you’re right, a good friend of mine who has passed on used to say, ” Son, it only costs a little more to go first class.”

[3fan4life]

Being old and set in my ways, I started to do some quick reading on CVTs. I think I still dislike them, but, am starting to maybe change my mind which is surprising. Newer versions, ECVTs seem to be correcting the previous problems. These are electrically controlled geared units, no belt, and seem to be pretty reliable. Now I'm interested, so, gotta go and do some more reading.

In January I bought a 2021 Honda CRV with the CVT transmission.

I too have my reservations about the CVT but I liked the Honda better than any of it's competitors.

And since many of them also had CVT transmissions I decided to trust Honda's.

I did read where Honda designed the CVT and the 1.5L Turbo engine from scratch to work together.

They are using the same engine / transmission combo in the Civic as well.

Also, the CRV is a Honda that's made in Ohio, that should be a good sign.


Time will tell if it's a good tranny or not, hopefully it is.

It's supposed to be serviced every 60k miles, I think I'll have it done every 50k miles instead.

Other than that I just plan to drive it.

The difference in the way that it "shifts" takes some getting used to.

It's not too noticeable unless your putting the pedal to the metal.

I drove a Nissan Rouge and it felt like it was constantly trying to find another gear.

Honda didn't try to make theirs fell like it was shifting so it doesn't do that.

[Patrick]

It doesn't take much to change brakes. Clean up, lube the caliper slides, new pads and rotors. It doesn't take too long. I use gold or platinum pads and rotors.

Damn, gold and platinum don’t seem like they would be good material for rotors or pads!! It would be a shame to cover then up with wheels.

Maybe they aren't good materials, but, they sure make them expensive !  Isn't more expensive more better ? 

I’m sure you’re right, a good friend of mine who has passed on used to say, ” Son, it only costs a little more to go first class.”

The gold series is the higher quality that most parts houses here in NYS stock, I've used them for decades. I went to get some in Florida and was told they only stock the platinum series, so i said OK. I guess they hold up in the salt air better.

[cookiedough]

It doesn't take much to change brakes. Clean up, lube the caliper slides, new pads and rotors. It doesn't take too long. I use gold or platinum pads and rotors.

I just did all 4 rotors and pads on my SRX and I think it took about 3 hours.

Piece a cake.

I had a lift for my use, so that made it easier.

both times I did rotors on cars the rotors were STUCK ON not coming off by hammering them off so utube video said buy the right size bolt that goes in that rotor hole and keep turning hitting backplate and WAALA,  hear a BIG POP and unlocked from being rusted on.  2 hardest parts for me have been removing rusted on rotors and cleaning all around the metal bracket clips where the pads fit VERY snug into.  Both times the brake pads would NOT go in unless I used a file to remove even the tiniest bit of rust in the groove places where the metal clips fit into.  Another hard part is since do not have a 'special tool' to force out the caliper pistons,  a c-clamp worked but took awhile to get pushed out all the way to barely fit the new brake pads inside.

that 3 hours would be near 5 hours if jacking up and down and moving all the tools one tire at a time like I have to do since NO lift and all hand tools used is all.  Plus, is a truck and my standard jacks do not go up high enough to lift the truck up in the air so going to have to use the cheapo scissors jack that came with the truck, but do have two 3 ton jack stands to secure underneath just in case that OEM scissors jack stored underneath the backseat is not too stable when I start. 

I suspect a 5 hour job to end up being 10 hours and 2 days worth for me not rushing it and all plus bad hips and all taking breaks from sitting on the concrete driveway.  Last time on hyundai sonata after watching utube video decided to NOT replace the rear rotors (just pads at 80K miles) since in order to remove rear rotors, a bolt for rear shock has to be removed to get into where the rotors are at to remove - poor design indeed. 

[Patrick]

Well, its probably best for some folks to have others do their repairs.

I grew up fixing everything automotive with good ole NYS salt and the resulting rust/corrosion. Removing rusty rotors and cleaning corroded slides is SOP. Its just a matter of what you're used to. But, this said, it pays to have the tools which becomes easier by the day. The electric tools are now cheaper and work great. No more dragging around that air hose. I still look for reasons to buy more tools.

[cookiedough]

Well, its probably best for some folks to have others do their repairs.

I grew up fixing everything automotive with good ole NYS salt and the resulting rust/corrosion. Removing rusty rotors and cleaning corroded slides is SOP. Its just a matter of what you're used to. But, this said, it pays to have the tools which becomes easier by the day. The electric tools are now cheaper and work great. No more dragging around that air hose. I still look for reasons to buy more tools.

agree, right tools for the job make life much easier and faster. 

[Patrick]

Well, its probably best for some folks to have others do their repairs.

I grew up fixing everything automotive with good ole NYS salt and the resulting rust/corrosion. Removing rusty rotors and cleaning corroded slides is SOP. Its just a matter of what you're used to. But, this said, it pays to have the tools which becomes easier by the day. The electric tools are now cheaper and work great. No more dragging around that air hose. I still look for reasons to buy more tools.

agree, right tools for the job make life much easier and faster. 

In fact I just had to put new front brakes on my truck. Again as is kinda normal here the rotors were rusty the pads still OK. Cleaned the slides as always. Took almost an hour. Changed the rears a couple years ago for the same reason.

[MarkT]

Got a Milwaukee brushless impact driver a few years back.  Spendy - but cuts down the time a LOT.  Use it for everything off & on.  Stop early for on, finish with a torque wrench usually.  Way more power than the air wrench and no hose hassle.

[Patrick]

Got a Milwaukee brushless impact driver a few years back.  Spendy - but cuts down the time a LOT.  Use it for everything off & on.  Stop early for on, finish with a torque wrench usually.  Way more power than the air wrench and no hose hassle.

Yep. Not too long ago bought a 3 piece set of Rigid battery wrenches. 2 impacts and drill. All are great, but, the power of the 1/2" impact is really impressive.

[cookiedough]

My kid went back to the university and since she just got her driver license, I decided to hand over to her my old car, a small hatch back (i.e. 2012 Hyundai Veloster).

That prompted me to start looking for a new car. I always wanted to buy a Toyota, either a truck (like the Tundra) or a SUV (like the 4Runner).

My experience with the 2 dealerships:
a) Tundra: test drove the 1794 model. Brakes were squishy and the steering felt vague, at best. The MSRP is 49K, but they were asking 55K for it!

On top of the abusive price, Toyota has already announced an upcoming 22 model that will be a new generation upgrade on what is an aging platform.

b) 4Runner TRD some-something model: breaks felt good, steering firm and it had all the off-road goodies (crawl mode, stick for engaging 4x4 and 4x4Low, etc). The MSRP was something around 43K but they were asking 56K (!!!) for it. Hard pass.

All Toyota dealerships in my neck of the woods are charging awful markups on top of the MSRP. And it seems that Toyota announced a decrease of around 40% in its production.

I gave up on Toyota and almost considered a Wrangler... until a read on how poor is the Fiat-Chrysler quality control.

The Ford Bronco looks pretty cool, but it was a pass due:
a) First batch generally has issues.
b) Huge demand leads to inflated prices.

When I was almost giving up, I decided to have a look on what Subaru has to offer. Main points:
a) Japanese brand, made in the USA.
b) Its AWD system has being perfected in the last 20-30 years.
c) It features a cool boxer engine (Yep, I love boxer engines on my bikes, why not on my car?).
d) Great safety features (RAB, smart cruise control, emergency breaking, etc).
e) The Outback drives more like a car, not like a SUV or a truck (maybe because it is technically a station wagon).

And the best of all: the 3 dealerships I've visited were not charging markups on top of the MSRP and offered 0% APR for 21 models and 1.9% for 22 models.

There is a short video review of the 21 model here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FhOgMG8xk

Long story short: I drove back home a 2022 Subaru Outback Limited XT with the new 2.4L turbo-charged 4 cylinders boxer engine.

Only logged 800 miles on it, but so far I'm really enjoying the safety features (it actually helped to avoid a collision on my way to SF) and creature comforts (e.g. dual zone AC, big multimedia display with support for Apple Carplay, leather seats, etc).

The gas mileage is ok-ish (I'm getting 26mpg, but the engine is still in the break-in stage).

I bought with the idea of in 2 or 3 years (when hopefully things go back to normal) to trade it for a 4Runner, but who knows? Maybe in 3 years from now I may decide just to keep it.
 

the tundra 1794 edition is top of the line along with TRD PRO, both fully decked out way above what one needs unless into spending 10K or more than a mid level SR5 trim is.  If you can live without leather and heated seats, I see NO real good reason to get above the SR5 trim level.  Even the TRD off road package is 3 grand and all you really get of any value for the price is upgraded shocks which if driving on normal roads not towing anything and bed unloaded, is too firm/choppy for my liking vs. normal shocks. 

the subaru outback will be better in snow unless way deep vs. a tundra which 4wd is a MUST if any snow on the ground since 2wd being RWD is horrible in 1cm of snow.