Putting the RustyValkyrie back on the jack

[RustyValkry]

I just moved, as in pushed, the RustyValkyrie, into my shed in preparation for doing more work.  Prior to trying to start it I had planned to do half a dozen things that I couldn't get done when I was resurrecting it last year but now there's another item at the top of the list.

When I tried to fire it up a couple weeks ago I discovered gas running across the floor of the trailer - so - I've got at least one float valve not closing.  Needless to say I REALLY don't want to tear the carbs off for the second time in a little over a year.  I'm going to be thinking about how I might determine which valve or float is hung before I start tearing stuff off the top of the engine.  If anyone has dealt with this before feel free to chime in. 

[Harryc]

Seems to me if you open one carb drain at a time and note gas output, that might help you determine which one is failing. if gas continues to pour out, then the float valve is stuck.

[Timbo1]

Opening the carb drain will lower float & open float needle allowing whatever fuel is left in the bowl & fuel rail depending on height to drain out so not sure that would be helpful.  As the lowest carb would drain all the fuel left in the fuel rail while the higher carbs would only drain what's left in the bowl.

Refresh my memory.  When you worked on it last did you rebuild Petcock & do complete carb rebuild with all new o-rings including the fuel rail?

If you didn't replace seals in the fuel rail it could possibly be that causing the leak.  Not sure how much of a leak you found but if petcock is seeping and you have a stuck float needle that could lead to the dreaded hydrolock.

Either way with bike sitting the petcock should not allow fuel to flow to carbs unless there's a vacuum on it if it's an OEM petcock.  I'd test it first, I'd also pull the plugs and see if any fuel is getting into any of the cylinders.  If there is you probably found which carbs are leaking.

[Jims99]

Next time you pull the carbs, replace the float needles with k3- 18-8955. They have a heavier spring to help this from happening. I have done two of my bikes and so far no problems.

[RustyValkry]

Seems to me if you open one carb drain at a time and note gas output, that might help you determine which one is failing. if gas continues to pour out, then the float valve is stuck.

If I open the bowl drain with the petcock open wouldn't that just let the gas flow straight out since the float would drop and the valve open? 

I was thinking the opposite.  Close the petcock, take out the bowl drain/vent use a squeeze bottle or syringe with a hose on it to reverse feed gas into the bowl.  If the float and valve are free then it should come to the point at which the float rises and the valve closes the inlet showing that the the bowl float/valve is working correctly.

Anyway that was my thought.  Can I get to the drains?  Can I rig up a way to force gas into the vent?  Can I feel if/when the valve closes?  A lot of ifs but it might be worth a try to avoid tearing the entire top of the engine apart.  That's a job I only want to do once.

[RustyValkry]

Opening the carb drain will lower float & open float needle allowing whatever fuel is left in the bowl & fuel rail depending on height to drain out so not sure that would be helpful.  As the lowest carb would drain all the fuel left in the fuel rail while the higher carbs would only drain what's left in the bowl.

Refresh my memory.  When you worked on it last did you rebuild Petcock & do complete carb rebuild with all new o-rings including the fuel rail?

If you didn't replace seals in the fuel rail it could possibly be that causing the leak.  Not sure how much of a leak you found but if petcock is seeping and you have a stuck float needle that could lead to the dreaded hydrolock.

Either way with bike sitting the petcock should not allow fuel to flow to carbs unless there's a vacuum on it if it's an OEM petcock.  I'd test it first, I'd also pull the plugs and see if any fuel is getting into any of the cylinders.  If there is you probably found which carbs are leaking.

See my response to Harryc to get an idea of what I was thinking.  It's a desperate plan but won't cost me much beyond standing on my head to get to the bottom of the carbs.

When I rebuilt the carbs last winter I did a complete rebuild, including new float valves and rail o-rings.  I also put a manual Pingel petcock on it.

When I put my gas powered equipment away for the winter I always shut off the fuel and run the carb(s) dry which I did to the Valkyrie last fall.  This is the first time that approach has led to sadness.

Yes, I'll pull the plugs and check for hydrolock before I try to start it again.

I have a plan for before I do anything.  After checking for hydrolock I'm going to try to start it without opening the petcock.  There might be enough gas in some or all the bowls to fire it up which would be nice.  Should that work, I'll open the petcock a crack and try to fire it again.  A desperate measure that I used on my old shovelhead when the float valve stuck on it.  I was able to get to the point at which I could ride the bike without fuel flowing out the vent which allowed me to get back to camp where I borrowed a big wrench that I used to free the stuck float/valve.  If I can get the RustyValkyrie to run at that balance and not have fuel flowing out the vent and across the floor then I might be able to do some tap-tap-tapping.  Heck with the roads around here just taking it for a ride might jar it enough to free a stuck float. 

[RustyValkry]

Next time you pull the carbs, replace the float needles with k3- 18-8955. They have a heavier spring to help this from happening. I have done two of my bikes and so far no problems.

LOL, I'd like to NEVER pull the carbs again but I'll do as you suggest if I do.  Of course if I have a stuck float it won't make any difference.

[RustyValkry]

This afternoon I found myself in the shed where the RustyValkyrie is hiding.  I really hadn't intended to go there but I guess the mind is going . . . quickly.

Anyway, I figured since I was there I may as well try to start it.  First I had to pull the plugs so I could spin it over to see what might shoot out those little holes where the spark plugs go - which I did.  A geyser shot out of the left rear hole - go figure.

So I stuck the plugs back in, except for the left rear one and spun it over again, empty this time and a good thing since the petcock was off.  After spinning it over a few times I got it to spit and sputter and finally keep running. 

Before it could change its mind I hurried up and got my gear on and took it out for a ride.  I put about 40 miles on it.  It ran about the same as the last time I rode it last fall.  When I was a couple blocks from the house I turned off the petcock and rode it back into the shed. 

I'll see next time what happens.  I'll pull that left rear plug out again in any case just to be safe.

Nice that I didn't have to start pulling the carbs off again.  At least not yet.

[Timbo1]

Just a thought but I'd be concerned with the pingle if it was off.  I have a hard time understanding how so much fuel was able to over flow the carb, fill a cylinder and run down to the floor with only the fuel left in the fuel rail. 

I remember someone telling me the float needles springs were weak and pressure from the fuel in the tank could seep past them if fuel was leaking past the OEM petcock.  Same would apply with a pingle if left on in my mind.  That would make more sense to me anyway.  You might double check that pingle.

[Harryc]

A geyser shot out of the left rear hole - go figure.

That's the cylinder that would fill with gas if your original vacuum operated petcock were still in place and has a bad seal. It lets gas down the vacuum tube and into cylinder 6 (left rear). It is another (although rare) cause for hydrolock. Replace the petcock.

[RustyValkry]

Just a thought but I'd be concerned with the pingle if it was off.  I have a hard time understanding how so much fuel was able to over flow the carb, fill a cylinder and run down to the floor with only the fuel left in the fuel rail. 

I remember someone telling me the float needles springs were weak and pressure from the fuel in the tank could seep past them if fuel was leaking past the OEM petcock.  Same would apply with a pingle if left on in my mind.  That would make more sense to me anyway.  You might double check that pingle.

Someone else in this thread mentioned using float valves with stronger springs.  If I ever have the carbs apart again (please no, please no, please no) I'd probably switch to that P/N.

At the time the gas leaked, I was trying to start it for the first time after sitting for the winter.
 The petcock was in the on position.  If even 1 float valve was stuck open I'm thinking that would give me what I saw.  I agree about leaving the petcock open.  I'm pretty good about closing my petcocks, you learn to do that on bikes over 40 years old.  Nothing worse than realizing gas is pouring out the vent tube, whether 1 or 6 carbs.  Even worse if it's running onto a hot engine.

I'm going to be keeping my eye on it going forward.  It's easy enough to pull that left rear plug to check for hydrolocking.  This isn't my first Pingel so I'm not overly concerned that it's leaking but if I begin to suspect it I can pull the supply line with the Pingel turned off and see if I get any seepage.

I'm going to take it out another time or 2 before I tear it apart just to see what happens.  It's not a very satisfying result that it just stopped leaking but in this case I'm just going to take it as a small victory and hope that's the end of it.

[RustyValkry]

A geyser shot out of the left rear hole - go figure.

That's the cylinder that would fill with gas if your original vacuum operated petcock were still in place and has a bad seal. It lets gas down the vacuum tube and into cylinder 6 (left rear). It is another (although rare) cause for hydrolock. Replace the petcock.

I'd have to have definitive proof that the petcock is bad before I'd replace a manual Pingel, I'm not there yet.  I'm not sure I'd heard about the vacuum tube letting gas into #6 cylinder, thanks for that.  In the absence of any more information I think I'm just going to assume the float valve on #6 carb was stuck open.  Hopefully I won't get anymore information. 

Thanks to all for your input even though there was no definitive outcome.

[Harryc]

A geyser shot out of the left rear hole - go figure.

That's the cylinder that would fill with gas if your original vacuum operated petcock were still in place and has a bad seal. It lets gas down the vacuum tube and into cylinder 6 (left rear). It is another (although rare) cause for hydrolock. Replace the petcock.

I'd have to have definitive proof that the petcock is bad before I'd replace a manual Pingel, I'm not there yet.  I'm not sure I'd heard about the vacuum tube letting gas into #6 cylinder, thanks for that.  In the absence of any more information I think I'm just going to assume the float valve on #6 carb was stuck open.  Hopefully I won't get anymore information. 

Thanks to all for your input even though there was no definitive outcome.

Didn't know you had a pingel, or I missed it. The condition I described above pertains to the OEM Honda petcock.

[RustyValkry]

It's been over a month since I last posted to this thread.  I've been distracted by the RV which I bought last October intending to winter in AZ but I couldn't do that due to the deleterious affects of the radiation I had last summer.  So, this spring I decided to get it ready to take to a Shovelhead retreat at KSL in North Carolina which I did.  

I also started work on the RustyValkyrie.  I disassembled the clutch system, both master and slave cylinders which I posted in the WRONG tech section - yea, I've got no excuses, apparently I don't even know which bike I have.

Anyway the clutch got done then I was troubleshooting the rough running issue. I narrowed it down to cylinders 4 and 5 being dead.  One afternoon my mechanic neighbor stopped by to help (and owner of a number of older Hondas) and we determined there was no gas getting to #4 and not much getting to #5 . . . so . . . I had to pull the carbs again - HATE IT!!!

Turns out I was getting more fine rust particles out of the tank so I put the Evaporust back in for a few days and switched to one of those clear, plastic, paper filled, inline fuel filters.  I discovered the inlets for #4 and 5 carbs were clogged so I removed the bowls and jets for all 6 carbs and spent time flushing out the carbs and lines with carb cleaner.  After reassembly I bench synced the carbs again, put it all back together again and, so far after riding a few hundred miles the carbs seem fine.

Also the clutch works a lot better, how could it not.  If you didn't see the thread in the 1800 tech section about the clutch work you might want to take a look at how bad the slave cylinder was.

Before I took the bike off the jack I also changed both radiator hoses and replaced the bad thermoswitch.  I may or may not be done with the cooling system as I can't remember If I replaced the thermostat when I did the resurrection.  I'll have to check my log file to see.  I also need to get the cross over hose replaced.

This past weekend I put the Valk back on the jack again, this time to do the timing belts.  Even though the bike only has 26k miles now I have to assume those belts are original so they're over 5 times past due timewise for replacement.  

I also stripped off the stock exhaust and am going to put on the TBR exhaust I got with the bike - how could I not.  I need to tear them apart and clean them up.  They had the baffles in them so I'll start without the baffles and put them in if they're too loud.  I ordered new exhaust gaskets and a new exhaust stud.  The front left stud was broken off when I got the bike.  I think that was causing a popping I was getting on steady state and decel but time will tell.  I also ordered a new gasket for the shifter shaft, it's been leaking.  

That brings me up to date.  More later when I get the RustyValkyrie back on it's feet.

[RustyValkry]

I've been working on the RustyValkyrie since my last post.  The easy job was replacing the timing belts and putting the TBR 6x6 pipes on it.  The hard job was troubleshooting the roughness I was experiencing. 

When I resurrected the RustyValkyrie I noted that the front most exhaust stud on the left side of the bike (as you sit on it) was broken.  That's why I put the stock exhaust on it when I was in Daytona Beach.  I've had a popping since I put it back in service.  I assumed the missing stud was causing a lean condition on that cylinder #2 causing the popping and the general roughness. 

When I finished the timing belt change I put in a new stud and mounted the TBR pipes figuring the popping would be taken care of - but it wasn't.  Since my last post I've had the carbs off twice. 

The problem was in the #4 carb.  At idle that cylinder was dead.  It had spark but no fire.    Squirting fuel into the vacuum port brought it to life.  My first assumption was I had passed rust from the tank and the first time I had the carbs off that appeared to be the cause so I cleaned the carbs out and put it back together - same issue.  I pulled the carbs again and broke the even cylinder side down and disassembled #4.  I borrowed a good quality ultrasonic cleaner, still assuming i was an internal blockage and "boiled" it out for an evening.  When I was putting it back together I decided to move all the jets to another carb - just for craps and giggles.  At the last moment I also decided to move the cut valve.  I swapped the valves between #4 and #2 carbs.  I finished putting it back together a few hours ago and when I fired it up I still had popping so I broke out the infrared thermometer and shot all the exhaust pipes . . . #2 cylinder was dead.  It appears that the cut valve has been the issue all along.

As I've been sitting here typing this and reading a thread about this issue I seem to recall that I tested the cut valves before I assembled the carbs in Daytona Beach.  If I recollect correctly either my testing was faulty or that one valve went bad afterward.

Tomorrow I'll see if I can successfully pull the line for the cut valve off the #2 carb and plug the tube.  Wish me luck.