Loading up a Tour Pack

[Peteg]

My tour pack says it's weight limit is 20 lbs. I think Honda says the same thing about the luggage rack on my VTX. My attitude has always been if the bike feels stable enough, be cautious under load and fix it if it breaks. It seems like it would be reasonable to do light touring with 40 lbs on it and likely not expect a failure. Does anyone have any real experience with this? I'm not planning on running the Alaskan highway like that, but based on pictures I've seen some guys have. Don't know if they upgraded the tour pack supports.

[Timbo1]

I always try to keep heavy stuff down low in the saddle bags.  I also try to distribute the weight evenly between sides.  I typically use the trunk for helmets, jackets, chaps etc.. or bulky lighter items.

I think the tour pack supports could hold a couple hundred pounds in reality.  But I think the moco publishes the low numbers for liability and warranty reasons.

[hubcapsc]

You can see my large sized (and full I'm sure) Givi bag attached to my rear carrier in
this picture on the way to the Wisconsin Inzane ten years ago or so.

Scott, one of the VRCC runners back then, told me he had seen
a rear carrier break from too much weight. I think they're stout
enough if you don't get too crazy...

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

I always try to keep heavy stuff down low in the saddle bags.  I also try to distribute the weight evenly between sides.  I typically use the trunk for helmets, jackets, chaps etc.. or bulky lighter items.

I think the tour pack supports could hold a couple hundred pounds in reality.  But I think the moco publishes the low numbers for liability and warranty reasons.

This is exactly how I do it.  Except one bag of mine is always heavier with tools and extra gear (the high side). 

The thing with the tourpac is, if you had it really loaded heavy, and then hit some bad pothole or washboard, something could break.  ABS is lighter than fiberglass, but not stronger.

Also, though I have the tourpac luggage rack, nothing ever gets loaded up there, it's just a handle for the lid. 

Although in rain and hot weather, I will bungee my rain jacket on that rack when it stops raining (to avoid heat stroke), but if it starts pouring again, all I have to do is stop and reach back and put it back on, without having to get off the bike.   

[Peteg]

Thanks for the input. I guess I'd never really have 40 lbs up there, except that I have 40 lbs of water up there now, seeing what it's like to ride that way. My wife is vegan and I'd like to have a good sized cooler on the top rack, but other than that the heavy stuff would be in the side bags. 

[ridingron]

Have you considered a trailer hitch set up to carry a cooler instead of on top of the tour pack?

[Avanti]

This picture shows a hitch carrier that I put up to 60 pounds in. I also have a cooler that I put there on occasion.

[da prez]

 If you go with the hitch packs , I still have hitches available.

                                           da prez

[hubcapsc]

We were chasing Smokin' Joe to the meet-in-the-middle ride
a few years ago. We were on a curvy road in the mountains  ...
All of a sudden there was this tight off-camber reducing-radius
downhill right-hander. It caused the rider in front of me to
blow the turn so badly I looked for it in my pictures later...
I just pressed as hard as it took on my Valkyrie's handlebar
and expected it to stick and not drag.



Do you hitch-carrier guys have to worry about dragging?

-Mike

[Peteg]

Cool stuff! So I've been looking at Avanti's bike for a while. My bike is practically setup to pull a trailer now. It came with Champion hard bags and no rear drop guards, so I made an ugly tip over protection frame so I wouldn't be afraid to learn on it. At 5'-4" learning how to ride it at 70 years old, I thought it would be best to not be afraid of dropping it. When I built the frame I made it with a hitch in mind even thought I probably won't ever trailer. On another note every time we go to Colorado I see these cool little motor bike bikes that look like they would be perfect to take me up the high passes. I'd be scared to go up there with even a real dirt bike at this point, no less a big dual sport. Back to the trailer hitch. So I saw this crazy video by the Revzilla boys called bikes on bikes, and I realized it wouldn't take much to make a Valkyrie into a really comfortable dual sport. I could maybe make a ValkyGrome. Here's the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF2mo-lhVwY

So one of my Winter projects is to make the hitch and tow my motorcycle trailer around the neighborhood. I'll think about a setup like Avanti's, but unless my wife gets smart and changes the locks on the doors, which likely won't happen as she yet to do it in 42 years, probably the most I'll ever do with the Valk is a one up camping trip. Best I can tell, I'm good for that as setup now.

Back to loading a Valk - Actually I'm just a crazy old man who's playing. I just put heavy duty springs in my progressive 412's and I've been riding the bike with weight to see where I am. So I put 2 gallons of water in my cooler on the tour pack rack, 3 gallons in the trunk, and 4 gallons split between the 2 side bags. Went for a ride with 75 lbs stored on the bike, really cool. Then I had a senior moment and put 12 gallons of water for 100 lbs on the passenger seat in 2 6 gallon water jugs. Even my wife came out and called me a dumb ass. So riding around at low speed with those water jugs on the back seat was like having a 100 lb passenger back there hanging off from one side to the other taking pictures. So I decided to go with 2 40 lb bags of wood pellets for the passenger seat load and dumped the water jugs.

If it's just me on a camping trip, the cooler should be really light until I get where I'm going. The most important thing might be ice for body cooling if I'm crossing Texas on a hot day like Valker and Jess do to get through the heat. The truck would not need much in it either.

Thanks for all the cool input!

[Jess from VA]

Actually I'm just a crazy old man who's playing.

You're making me laugh with all the adding weight/water.

I always look to ride as light as possible.  I'm only 5'9", and I do fine on OE 13" shocks.

Just go out and find yourself a fat woman and take her for a ride.   

[ridingron]

Just go out and find yourself a fat woman and take her for a ride.   

And hope you don't hit a bump!!  

[The emperor has no clothes]

I don’t think the water jugs you loaded up are similar to a 100 lb. passenger at all. A passenger is going to have more of their weight up higher, and move the center of gravity much easier. I also wouldn’t put that much weight on my trunk rack either. Along with the pressure of the weight, you are going to have some wind pressure also.

[Jess from VA]

Just go out and find yourself a fat woman and take her for a ride.    

And hope you don't hit a bump!!  

This never gets old.  

[Avanti]

We were chasing Smokin' Joe to the meet-in-the-middle ride
a few years ago. We were on a curvy road in the mountains  ...
All of a sudden there was this tight off-camber reducing-radius
downhill right-hander. It caused the rider in front of me to
blow the turn so badly I looked for it in my pictures later...
I just pressed as hard as it took on my Valkyrie's handlebar
and expected it to stick and not drag.



Do you hitch-carrier guys have to worry about dragging?

-Mike

No, I have ridden the Blue Ridge and many other roads with much tighter curves and chased down other riders. The key is to use the right designed hitch and carrier. One with little or no side to side movement. What ever is mounted on your motorcycle should upset the suspension as little as possible.

[Avanti]

Cool stuff! So I've been looking at Avanti's bike for a while. My bike is practically setup to pull a trailer now. It came with Champion hard bags and no rear drop guards, so I made an ugly tip over protection frame so I wouldn't be afraid to learn on it. At 5'-4" learning how to ride it at 70 years old, I thought it would be best to not be afraid of dropping it. When I built the frame I made it with a hitch in mind even thought I probably won't ever trailer. On another note every time we go to Colorado I see these cool little motor bike bikes that look like they would be perfect to take me up the high passes. I'd be scared to go up there with even a real dirt bike at this point, no less a big dual sport. Back to the trailer hitch. So I saw this crazy video by the Revzilla boys called bikes on bikes, and I realized it wouldn't take much to make a Valkyrie into a really comfortable dual sport. I could maybe make a ValkyGrome. Here's the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF2mo-lhVwY

So one of my Winter projects is to make the hitch and tow my motorcycle trailer around the neighborhood. I'll think about a setup like Avanti's, but unless my wife gets smart and changes the locks on the doors, which likely won't happen as she yet to do it in 42 years, probably the most I'll ever do with the Valk is a one up camping trip. Best I can tell, I'm good for that as setup now.

Back to loading a Valk - Actually I'm just a crazy old man who's playing. I just put heavy duty springs in my progressive 412's and I've been riding the bike with weight to see where I am. So I put 2 gallons of water in my cooler on the tour pack rack, 3 gallons in the trunk, and 4 gallons split between the 2 side bags. Went for a ride with 75 lbs stored on the bike, really cool. Then I had a senior moment and put 12 gallons of water for 100 lbs on the passenger seat in 2 6 gallon water jugs. Even my wife came out and called me a dumb ass. So riding around at low speed with those water jugs on the back seat was like having a 100 lb passenger back there hanging off from one side to the other taking pictures. So I decided to go with 2 40 lb bags of wood pellets for the passenger seat load and dumped the water jugs.

If it's just me on a camping trip, the cooler should be really light until I get where I'm going. The most important thing might be ice for body cooling if I'm crossing Texas on a hot day like Valker and Jess do to get through the heat. The truck would not need much in it either.

Thanks for all the cool input!

Let it be known that large quantities of liquid being maneuvered with any type of vehicle will definitely be a challenge, because it is forever moving. Use solid materials for this type of testing.

[Avanti]

Do not forget about your rear tire load rating. The rear Avon 180/70R-16 has a Load Rating:77 (max 908 Lbs).  My Interstate loaded and with two riders in full gear weighs in at around 1200 pounds this does not include a carrier or trailer hitch weight. It also does not include the downward force when hitting a bump.

This is one reason I use a car tire.

[Peteg]

So something interesting that is surprising me during my data evaluation: Not surprising as you add weight the higher and more weight the worse it is. When things get bad at my skill level with my bike it gets unstable at low speed. So with 40 lbs total trunk and rack, 20 in each side bag, and 40 on the passenger seat for a total 120 lbs load, and shocks are at level 5. Pretty much add enough preload and the world is good. I can obviously feel the weight, but the bike handles normally at low speed, I just need to be careful. Then when I throw another 40 lbs on the seat and can't add anymore prestress she just says I ain't no pack mule grandpa and gets really unstable at low speed. You can deal with it if you have good low speed skills but for me it becomes very unnatural. I'm going to ride it for a while in the 120 lbs load configuration and see if it gets better when I put the second 40 lbs of pellets backup. Typically 5  step double rear shocks allow about 5/8" of preload. More expensive shocks typically allow twice that. I'm thinking about cutting 1/2" spacers for the shock springs for 2 up fat woman touring. The idea would be you install the spacers only when your going on a two up vacation, and instead of having prestress 1-5, you have prestress 4-9. I really have to get a life, because I can't imagine I'll ever go 2 up touring with my wife.

[The emperor has no clothes]

You are over thinking all this. (IMHO) Practice your low speed maneuvering. Practice riding with a passenger. Practice your emergency braking. These things will help you more than any spacers, hitch racks, etc.

[Willow]

Too much weight behind the rear axle has a negative impact.  That is multiplied as the total weight is increased.

At low speed especially your directional control of the motorcycle is on the front wheel.  Shifting the weight so that it pulls the front wheel up can be disastrous.  Some riders have found how far they can go before that happens too much.  I wouldn't experiment with that line most especially with liquid which does not stay still. 

[Peteg]

I over think everything. It's in my nature.

I got high speed wobbles on my 1974 Yamaha 650. Now that we have the internet as a tool, I've come to find out Yamaha change the frame in 1975 to address a frame harmonic issue. Still the experience makes me nervous. Per my internet research there are a lot of things that can bring on a tank slapper. Not enough weight on the front tire came up as a major contributor on internet. It also said if you feel the wobble coming on, you can potentially stop it by applying the front brake which shifts weight forward increasing the traction on the front tire. Depending on the dynamic condition I doubt that works all the time. I definitely don't want to go there again. Thanks for you input.

[Avanti]

You are over thinking all this. (IMHO) Practice your low speed maneuvering. Practice riding with a passenger. Practice your emergency braking. These things will help you more than any spacers, hitch racks, etc.

This is good information.

Make sure that your throttle works smooth and learn how to use your brakes smooth in combination with it. Decide which brake to use and when. If you can do this as a solo rider than you will easily adjust to other parameters that the motorcycle and rider combined encounter.

[Peteg]

Thanks, Avanti. So looking at your bike in the picture, it looks like your riding the original Showa Interstate shocks. Is that correct? If so, how many miles do you have on them?

[Avanti]

Yes, 255,483 as of November 24, but they are probably going away this winter. I may even take one apart to see what makes it tick.


I know you have talked about a tour pack so I am assuming you have an Interstate. The Interstate has a few more pounds up front with the fairing. I am also using a +4 degree  triple tree (can of worms) and a car tire (another can of worms) on mine.

I never put more than 60 pounds in my carrier.

My carrier is not using my hitch as a mounting point. It has its own slide in double mount which keeps it from being able to twist or move abruptly which would upset the motorcycle and a light bar with license plate that move from the back of the motorcycle to the back of the carrier.  The carrier when not on the motorcycle goes on the hitch of my trailer.

All of the changes to my Interstate and trailer have been in use for over 100,000 miles but were
done one at a time.

Adding weight or relocating weight and geometry changes to a motorcycle changes the way it maneuvers.  But the changes do not have to cause bad handling. Test and test some more.

Riding a motorcycle is an art and must be continually practiced.

Find out what upsets your motorcycle and make changes, so you don’t.

Not the short answer, that was in the first paragraph.

Ride Far, Ride Safe

[Peteg]

Mine is not an interstate which probably contributed to a lot of my issues. Mine's a 1998 standard retrofit with Champion hard side bags and a Honda tour pack. It came with 12.5" showa shocks so they likely were under damped and under sprung if they were original in 1998.

 I put a tip over protection frame under mine. I'm small, old and have nowhere near your riding experience or I'm sure your ability. I felt the tip over frame would protect the bags in case of a drop. The frame was designed with a hitch in mined more as a fun project and maybe a feature when I sell her. I don't think I'll need the carrier but I will consider it as I work through all this. My carrier would be a lot smaller than yours and would connect to my frame in 4 locations including the 2 outside corners - so very stiff rotationally. You definitely don't want to have a carrier that rotates as you go down the road.

I too took my showa's apart. I'm retired and I never saw a knob I didn't turn. I stroked them with a hydraulic jack and everything seemed ok. I made a wood all thread jig to remove the spring. The thought was if the damping felt good without the spring I could maybe get stiffer springs and run a competition between the old Showa's and the new 412's or set one set up for a normal riding and the other for 2 up vacationing. When I compressed one enough to see the rubber bump stop, I pushed it back to expose and loosen the lock nut. My aluminum eye head would not come loose from the piston shaft. I guess the steel threads gual the aluminum eye head over time.

Thanks for all your input.