Carb issues and oil issues?

[Gearhead24]

Hello,
I did an oil change over the weekend and put 4 quarts of rotella 5-30 in it. Bike started great ran great and felt great while riding yesterday. No leaks no nothing. This morning however as I was riding I noticed a lack of power, figured my tired self was simply in the wrong gear but once I got a little further I lost all power and throttle input. I looked down and noticed oil had spewed everywhere, pulled over and shut the bike off and I couldn’t see a spot where the oil leaked from. The only reason I added carb issue to the title  is because I have issues with hydrolock often and every so often the idle sets itself way higher (around 2k). Right now bike won’t start and I have to get to my class so once class is over I’ll pick it up and take care of things

[Gearhead24]

To be specific, the oil I got was rotella t6 MV 5W-30. I had looked around on other posts here and found a lot of people swore by rotella and that 5w-30 was a good summer oil. Not sure whether it was an explosion that sent oil all over everything, or if it was a burp from the crank case that sent it flying out

[Joe333x]

I doubt the oil itself would cause the issue but you can use a heavier oil. I believe honda called for 10w30, I Personally run 15w40 T6 supposed to be good for wet clutches. If your idle is adjusting on its on I would suggest syncing you carbs with a digisync. As far the oil, figuring out where it actually came from is important. If you have experienced hydrolock, which means your floats are staying open and fuel is entering the cylinder then a rebuild of you carbs is in order and replacing the float needles.

[WintrSol]

First question: which cylinder(s) lock with fuel, #6 or ?

Second: do you always park with the petcock in the OFF position, or just depend on the lack of vacuum to stop fuel flowing?

[csj]

I have, on two occasions, somehow managed to take off the old oil filter, and leave the gasket on the bike. Then I put the new filter on, that makes two gaskets, ran the bike and oil everywhere.

I eyeball the filter when it comes off now, making sure old gasket is on the old filter.

[Gearhead24]

It’s normally my #5 cylinder that locks up. At least that’s the one I always drain when rocking the bike doesn’t work. As for the oil filter I don’t believe that’s the issue here. After closer inspection I still can’t find the source of the leak. The whole underside of the left head is covered in oil, there was spray that went across the front edge and down both sides of the bike. The right head is clean top to bottom and the oil doesn’t start on the right side until after the heads. When this initially happened the bike wouldn’t start and wouldn’t give me power if it could start but now it fires up super easily and has power. I was able to ride it into the trailer and up my driveway easily.
The bike sprayed maybe a quart or 1.5 quarts when it happened so I definitely need more oil. I can’t see any active leaks right now so maybe I need to fill it up again and see if it happens again

[Gearhead24]

Got the tank off and the air cleaner opened up but not removed yet. There is a lot of oil in the bottom of the air cleaner and on the back third of the filter. If I were to guess I’d say that the “leak” was actually oil being sent back up and through the carbs and coming out the air filter, bouncing off the tank immediately above it, and dispersing absolutely everywhere. I also ran a spark test to be safe and cyl 5&6 are not firing (yet again woooooo). I placed white paper towels under the bike so I’ll be able to see the location of any drips easily. So far there isn’t anything dripping that wasn’t residual from the initial blow

[WintrSol]

Got the tank off and the air cleaner opened up but not removed yet. There is a lot of oil in the bottom of the air cleaner and on the back third of the filter. If I were to guess I’d say that the “leak” was actually oil being sent back up and through the carbs and coming out the air filter, bouncing off the tank immediately above it, and dispersing absolutely everywhere. I also ran a spark test to be safe and cyl 5&6 are not firing (yet again woooooo). I placed white paper towels under the bike so I’ll be able to see the location of any drips easily. So far there isn’t anything dripping that wasn’t residual from the initial blow

The crankcase vents to an air/oil separator, but if a lot of oil is spraying up the vent, that won't work, as it fills the 'puke' tube. A lot of oil in the vent usually indicated it was overfilled with oil. Did you check the level with the bike standing upright?

Two plugs fire at the same time, left and right; #5 and #6 use the same coil, if I recall correctly. A quick look at the wiring diagram will show it.

[Gearhead24]

I did notice that breather in the back, and checked the oil level. Level is still good surprisingly, and my air box is a bit messed up so I can see how that tube led to it spraying. The total loss of power is still concerning unless it just flipped out the icm for a while. I’ve had other bikes burp but they were mechanical and it was shortly after first revival so it was mostly gunk not oil

[Jims99]

Stupid question, but did you drain all the oil when changing it? Sounds to me like you may have over filled the oil. Check level and drain the (dragon drool) tube off air filter.

[Gearhead24]

To be fair I wouldn’t put it past me cause I’m so bird brained. Yeah I did do my best to ensure the bike was fully drained. When I drained the oil I held the bike tipped to the right to make sure it drained just about everything and checked the dipstick while the bike was level. I guess I just read it wrong and overfilled the motor. Luckily it was 5-30 and not something super heavy or else there might be more issues.
Now it’s time for me to ask a stupid question. I’ve never washed a bike, just wiped them down. However since oil is absolutely everywhere. Could I use a pressure washer maybe on a light setting to spray everywhere without chancing water getting where it shouldn’t? Looking to clean that motor without major disassembling.

[Chrisj CMA]

There’s a clue. All that oil expelled and it checks good on the stick. I’d say you significantly overfilled it. Maybe you bought a five qt jug thinking it was four???

It’s not a good idea to keep riding a bike prone to hydro locking. Unless you don’t mind pulling the engine and replacing some relatively expensive parts. 

[WintrSol]

So, it's #5 that tends to fill with fuel; odd of an 'uphill' side to do that. That implies that the fuel valve is not closing, nor is the #5 float valve. An over-filled carb will cause some loss of power, of course.

In any case, until you have this corrected, always keep the petcock in OFF when not running the engine. You could be due a fuel valve repair kit, at the least, and a float assembly too.

[Gearhead24]

Honestly it was that 5qt/4qt mixup. I feel really stupid for it and all of this but then again I feel stupid about a lot of things so oh well. As for the carbs, I haven’t taken them off yet but my truck is almost good enough to drive again so when that’s good I’ll rip the carbs back off and do another clean. Don’t have a digisynch though so I’m not sure how I’m going to get around that. My 1st gen goldwing ran beautifully on a bench sync carb and honestly, besides idle jumping very seldomly these carbs run great too. The only times I get the lock is when I tell myself “I don’t need to tap the button it’ll turn over easily”, then it locks. I just need to discipline myself better and get used to turning off that petcock. I also replaced the 5/6 ignition coil and I have spark on all 6 now.
All in all she is back to almost perfect shape. Got her all washed down and cleaned up. Also found out tonight that silicone spray lube works great to clean the chrome streak free. She’s all shiny again

[Gearhead24]

Every time I checked the dipstick, I cleaned it, held the bike level, inserted it only to the threads and did not thread it in, and every time I checked it yesterday it read slightly above the middle line. Thinking that was a good reading and that I now had the proper amount of oil, I started the bike and ran it for a couple minutes on idle. Shortly after startup smoke started coming out of #5 exhaust right at the head and oil smoke out of the exhaust ends. Decided to drain the oil yet again and to my surprise it filled the 7qt drain pan almost to the top. This time around I pulled the spark boots and tapped the starter while leaning the bike right until I didn’t see anymore drips into the pan. Not entirely sure how so much stayed in there on the first change especially since I had dumped about 4 quarts in the drain pan the first time. Currently have the bike leaning against a couple 2x4’s to hold it leaning right, hopefully every last drop drains out and I can restart fresh with 4 quarts.

[Chrisj CMA]

If you do the math it’s crazy. You said you thought 1qt was puked out and yet there were 7 qts remaining. It’s like you filled it but forgot to drain it. Now, I know you didn’t do that but how in the world does 8qts get in there??

[Gearhead24]

That’s where I’m perplexed. With the amount of oil that was on the road, on the bike, and on me, there is no doubt the amount puked was at or near 1qt. There was no water in the oil so nothing leaked in when I hosed down the motor. Maybe some goblins snuck in and dumped oil into the motor overnight, goblins is always a safe bet for the unknown. Leaving the bike tipped right for the weekend and might occasionally tap the starter to really get it out, but on Sunday or Monday I’ll go get a jug of 10-30 or 15-40. Skeptical of 5-30 especially after seeing just how thin it is, never used it before.

[Jims99]

How is your gas level? It’s possible fuel has been leaking down and filling crank case. Not sure that much fuel would get in there without noticing something. Just another thought.

[Gearhead24]

Not sure since I don’t have a fuel gauge. The oil did smell a bit like gas and I wouldn’t be surprised if some did get pushed past the rings when the motor burped at me. My nose doesn’t work so well so it could just be the exhaust smell stinking up my garage. Regardless, tomorrow I’ll put some thicker oil in the motor and continue testing for lack of power, additional leaks, and any other issues that might present itself

[Chrisj CMA]

Not sure since I don’t have a fuel gauge. The oil did smell a bit like gas and I wouldn’t be surprised if some did get pushed past the rings when the motor burped at me. My nose doesn’t work so well so it could just be the exhaust smell stinking up my garage. Regardless, tomorrow I’ll put some thicker oil in the motor and continue testing for lack of power, additional leaks, and any other issues that might present itself

One part of the equation is that there HAS TO BE a faulty petcock (if it’s OEM) for hydrolock to occur. So one of the effects of a faulty petcock is fuel starvation = power loss

I still highly recommend correcting the problems related to hydrolock, it seems related to the overall problem.

[Gearhead24]

Not sure since I don’t have a fuel gauge. The oil did smell a bit like gas and I wouldn’t be surprised if some did get pushed past the rings when the motor burped at me. My nose doesn’t work so well so it could just be the exhaust smell stinking up my garage. Regardless, tomorrow I’ll put some thicker oil in the motor and continue testing for lack of power, additional leaks, and any other issues that might present itself

One part of the equation is that there HAS TO BE a faulty petcock (if it’s OEM) for hydrolock to occur. So one of the effects of a faulty petcock is fuel starvation = power loss

I still highly recommend correcting the problems related to hydrolock, it seems related to the overall problem.

My temp fix is scuffed for sure but when I can’t roll the bike to clear the lock I keep a socket and wrench on me to pull that #5 plug and let that fuel out. That works for now, things are tight and will be for a while so I cannot afford to simply put the bike under for a while while every part gets delivered and replaced. When I have ny tank off and switch the petcock to on, nothing comes out so I believe that is working fine. I think the carbs are a little bit gummed from slightly dirty gas. I did fill up once or twice while the station itself had tankers there stirring up the underground tanks. Without paying a shop hundreds of dollars I can’t have someone else clean the carbs so I’ve got to do what I can for as cheap as possible. Right now the next part I’ve got to buy is a front tire. Mine is decently cracked and is in need of replacing so that’s an easy 400 right there

[Chrisj CMA]

[When I have ny tank off and switch the petcock to on, nothing comes out so I believe that is working fine/quote]

It’s  your bike.  If you have hydrolock you have a bad petcock!  Additionally. A bad float needle valve.  In your case at least #5.  The loss of power you complain about is likely due the the bad petcock. Ignore all this at your own risk. Can’t say you weren’t warned.

[Gearhead24]

I wanted to apologize for my previous message. I get that you guys are only trying to help, however I cannot fix everything immediately. The money has to go to other departments. Until I can replace the petcock I will simply make sure my fuel switch is turned off while I’m not riding. I’ve ran the carbs dry before doing that so I know it will keep fuel from moving. ChrisJ, sorry for snapping a bit like that. It’s no excuse but a whole case of twisted tea will do that to ya

The loss of power I was talking about was immediately after the motor burped all the oil. Once I came back to the bike later that day it was able to move on its own power once again.
Later on I put my backup Chinese ignition coil on which did require me to swap the boots over however that coil or the boots were causing a real weak spark on 5/6. I ended up finding a near replica to the OEM coils and wires for cheap on eBay.
The brand is Moto1988 and the coil looks like a brand new Honda coil except one of the spark plug boots jets off to the side instead of straight back. This coil is a tight fit on the spark plugs and on the hole so I’m confident it will keep water out. Spark from this coil is also way brighter than my originals.
 
Now it’s time for a stupid question. Now that I’m confident the fluids are right and the spark is right I fired over the bike and it still sounds different from before the incident. I don’t hear any sort of knocking or bad sounds, but when I put my 4cyl icm on it sounds lower pitched overall and reasonably so. But I have my good icm on now and I let the bike idle for a few minutes, still sounded very much like it’s running on 4 but when I felt the pipes at the heads all of them were hot to the touch.

[WintrSol]

If some are running, but weak, it's time for a sync and mixture adjustment.
Honda's method uses two matched vacuum gauges, and comparing #3 to each in turn, then repeat until you get the same readings on all. Idle mixture adjustment can be a real PITA and burned fingers, because of the shape and location of the pilot screws.

Maybe someone near you has a Digisync; with one, you set sync for all 6 in one go.

[Joe333x]

If some are running, but weak, it's time for a sync and mixture adjustment.
Honda's method uses two matched vacuum gauges, and comparing #3 to each in turn, then repeat until you get the same readings on all. Idle mixture adjustment can be a real PITA and burned fingers, because of the shape and location of the pilot screws.

Maybe someone near you has a Digisync; with one, you set sync for all 6 in one go.

The motion pro carb tool works great to prevent burnt fingers and a colortune makes it so easy to know exactly where to set it.

[Gearhead24]

I do have a 4 bank and a 2 bank analog carb gauge set that I bought for my goldwing and my cb400’s. Ain’t no digisynch but theoretically I could hook up to all 6 at once

[WintrSol]

I do have a 4 bank and a 2 bank analog carb gauge set that I bought for my goldwing and my cb400’s. Ain’t no digisynch but theoretically I could hook up to all 6 at once

That could work, if you calibrate them to each other. I used a MityVac and connected mine together, all at the same time, and pulled a vacuum from 5" to 20", noting any differences going up and down. Some have an adjusting screw on the back to get them close, but I found there were still some variations. Once you have that data, go for it!

[Gearhead24]

I didn’t find anything in the manual about hooking up vacuum gauges to the carbs, but my sets rely on there being a test screw on each carb. Haven’t been able to find that screw either unless there is none and I am meant to hook onto the now capped vacuum lines coming off the side of each carb

[Mooskee]

I didn’t find anything in the manual about hooking up vacuum gauges to the carbs, but my sets rely on there being a test screw on each carb. Haven’t been able to find that screw either unless there is none and I am meant to hook onto the now capped vacuum lines coming off the side of each carb

If you have a vacuum operated petcock, start the engine, or draw a small vacuum on the line to the petcock, and clamp it to allow the fuel to flow.


You will connect the sync tool to the brass nipples on the back of each intake tube. If you have 6 channels, disconnect the vacuum hoses and caps ,and replace them with your hoses for your gauges. If you have less than 6 channels or gauges you will need to keep the intakes you are not connecting to plugged or the hoses connected. Otherwise you will suck in air and cause that cylinder to be more lean.

If this doesn't make sense contact me and I will try to clarify. The sync process is described in 3-10 of the Honda Maintenance manual. If you do not have one, I can scan the relevant pages for you, and put them on a Google Drive link.

[Gearhead24]

That makes sense, I was looking at those and thought that may be the way to go about it. Right now I’ve been trying to reset my idle back to normal and that’s taking a while. I think I might have an aftermarket dipstick for my oil, I added 4 quarts from a complete and total drain, and it would just barely read on the dipstick. I knew it was 4 quarts though so I started the bike and that’s when I noticed it sounded off. So I went and got more oil yet again and only a half quart got me to the middle line from almost no readings. Being satisfied with that I fired it up and let it run, now it’s smoking out of 5 and 6 exhaust and through the headers. The sound is back to being good so I’m halfway tempted to let this thing idle more and let it burn off any excess

[Chrisj CMA]

So yet again you purposely overfilled it?  Why? 

Once you put four quarts in and you have any suspicion of a problem you can rule out oil quantity as the culprit. Doesn’t that make any sense to you?

[Gearhead24]

I overfilled it again because I did have a decent amount of smoking on initial start after the fill. It went away and with the extra half quart the original siund came back and she sounds healthy again. Tonight I’ll drain a little bit and see how that changes the sound.

[Willow]

It sounds like you may be using the stick with the Valk on the sidestand.

[Chrisj CMA]

I overfilled it again because I did have a decent amount of smoking on initial start after the fill. It went away and with the extra half quart the original siund came back and she sounds healthy again. Tonight I’ll drain a little bit and see how that changes the sound.

O  K

[Chrisj CMA]

It sounds like you may be using the stick with the Valk on the sidestand.

I rarely check my oil with the dipstick but when I do, it’s almost always on the side stand with the dipstick screwed in. I know there should be 1/8” of oil on the tip of the stick doing it that way. Boom simple. But I only put in 4 qts.

[WintrSol]

It sounds like you may be using the stick with the Valk on the sidestand.

I rarely check my oil with the dipstick but when I do, it’s almost always on the side stand with the dipstick screwed in. I know there should be 1/8” of oil on the tip of the stick doing it that way. Boom simple. But I only put in 4 qts.

This is a recipe for changing results. Unless you only check it when parked in the exact same spot, even small variations in the tilt of the surface will change the reading. Balancing it upright means it is at the same tilt as every other time you check. Plus, the stick (stock that is) is calibrated for this position.

[Gearhead24]

I am not checking the oil leaning on the side stand, and I do not thread my dipstick in to check it either. I’ve been doing all this in my garage while centering the bike, I unscrew the stick and clean it then put it in up to the threads then pull it out and read it, I might check it 2 or 3 more times after that to be sure. Unless my house is really crooked and I haven’t noticed my floor should be level.

[Chrisj CMA]

It sounds like you may be using the stick with the Valk on the sidestand.

I rarely check my oil with the dipstick but when I do, it’s almost always on the side stand with the dipstick screwed in. I know there should be 1/8” of oil on the tip of the stick doing it that way. Boom simple. But I only put in 4 qts.

This is a recipe for changing results. Unless you only check it when parked in the exact same spot, even small variations in the tilt of the surface will change the reading. Balancing it upright means it is at the same tilt as every other time you check. Plus, the stick (stock that is) is calibrated for this position.

Yes, exact same spot. At home in the family room. Half way through an oil change. BTW, sitting on the bike to hold it upright can have changing results as we don’t have a level installed  

Bottom line here is this

Why does anyone pull out the dipstick to check it?

Answer: to make sure the motorcycle has the proper amount of oil.

So, if one JUST physically put in the CORRECT amount of oil, then the reading on the stick is CORRECT no matter where it is; you already know oil quantity is correct. At that point if you want to check it “by the book” and you are not happy with where it hits on the stick. ITS NOT THE OIL QUANTITY THAT NEEDS CHANGED.

[WintrSol]

Bike standing up, even with a slight lean to one side, gives less variation than on the side stand; even the shocks not in the exact same extension can cause more variation. I suppose that, if you bounce the bike a bit and let it settle, shocks should end in the same place, but why bother, when it is so much easier to get an accurate reading by standing it up? I don't understand why you argue against the best method.

[Chrisj CMA]

Bike standing up, even with a slight lean to one side, gives less variation than on the side stand; even the shocks not in the exact same extension can cause more variation. I suppose that, if you bounce the bike a bit and let it settle, shocks should end in the same place, but why bother, when it is so much easier to get an accurate reading by standing it up? I don't understand why you argue against the best method.

Not arguing. Just making the point that if you know (because you just dumped the gallon in) that there is the correct amount of oil, what the dipstick says is really unimportant. And if it’s the same in six months as it was when you filled it all is good. There is no good reason to intentionally overfill your Valkyrie with oil to satisfy the line on the dipstick.