U Joint Evolution?

[Rio Wil]

I was looking at some u joints on ebay and noticed the following....the '97 u joint looked to be forged, then ground down to rough dimensions and the locations for the bearings machined..

The '98 and newer u joints appear to have been cast in a machined  mold, then the locations machined for the bearings..... so was there a balance issue or some other problem with the '97 that brought about the change in manufacturing of '98 and later..... any thoughts?

[Daniel Meyer]

We've seen some u-joint failures...and we've seen some that you can beat the heck out of and not have a problem. Some of us suspect the older style u-joints...and to confuse matters...the older style didn't seem to have a clean cut-off point on what year/model they came in AND even though the part number changed the older ones were still showing up as new/stock replacement on occasion.

[lee]

Honda used the same u-joint from the 1989 GW all the way through the 2003 Valk.
They may look a little different, but I dought the specs. or quality changed.
Just MO.

[Rio Wil]

Take a look at these two pic's, the first is the '97 and the second is a '99.  Considerable difference in manufacturing  process.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Valkyrie-GL1500-U-JOINT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e5a6e94c1QQitemZ130366215361QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Valkyrie-GL1500-U-JOINT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem51909221bbQQitemZ350317846971QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[Daniel Meyer]

Honda used the same u-joint from the 1989 GW all the way through the 2003 Valk.
They may look a little different, but I dought the specs. or quality changed.
Just MO.

They changed. The part number changed around '00 and superseded the old one. There is a very obvious difference in the parts.

[lee]

If I had to guess I would say the later one was manufactured in China at a cheeper price.
Not as much machining.

[Rio Wil]

Thats kinda the point, except in reverse.  The first one looks like it was hand ground on a grinding wheel and the second looks like it was cast in a machined mold making it a better formed casting and probably easier balanced.....

[lee]

I guess it comes down to one of two things.
1. Did they change the manufacturing process to improve the quality of the part?
2. Or did they change the process to lower the cost of the part?

[Mikey]

I would venture to guess that they did both. Going from sand- to die- cast would reduce Honda's shop time on the part, and a by-product of the change would be a stronger U-Joint.

[RP#62]

But, its not the forging/casting that fails.  Its the needle bearings.
-RP

[Rio Wil]

But wouldn't better aligned castings result in less (and the following is  a technical term)   'squirm' and be easier on the needle bearings?

[RP#62]

How is one better aligned than the other?  I've had them side by side and there's no difference in any of the dimensions that count.  It just looks like they went to a different manufacturing process. The smooth one looks like it was sintered, which means it would have required less machining and therefore cheaper to produce.  The rough one was forged and is probably stronger.  I've seen both of them fail, but like I said, the bearings failed.
-RP

[RP#62]

Oops, here's the pic

[Daniel Meyer]

But, its not the forging/casting that fails.  Its the needle bearings.
-RP

Most of the machines I've had to help fix...it's been the casting that failed (usually catastrophically). (and, they've been the old style)

[sugerbear]

 question about the pic,  which one is "new" and which is "old"?
thanks

[Ricky-D]

But, its not the forging/casting that fails.  Its the needle bearings.
-RP

Most of the machines I've had to help fix...it's been the casting that failed (usually catastrophically). (and, they've been the old style)

Sounds like smoke to me!  

Sure would like to see some pictures of these failed castings.

The castings eat themselves up due to the bearings letting loose.

C'mon, this aint rocket science here.  

Most times the damage has occurred before the rider is even aware and in some instances only when the universal locks itself up. Now that's dangerous.

In cars the equivalent indication used to be when the drive shaft goes sliding down the road or starts beating the underside of the car body.

***

[fudgie]

All the u-joints in that I replaced in my trucks have been found by ticking. Never lost a ds. 

[Rio Wil]

Look at the ujoint on the right in the picture, it is not symmetrical like the left one.  It would seem to me that it would be more difficult to locate the spline bores and bearing locations in a perfect center line axis and cause premature failure of the bearings.  In car ujoints, its not unusual to see a discolored bearing cap from heat before it becomes an obvious failure. 

[fudgie]

My 98 Tourer has the left one on it from the factory. My spare also looks like the left.

[RP#62]

The one on the right is the original one that came with my '97 Tourer.  Its still going strong.  The one on the left is my ebay spare of unknown lineage.  Daniel, on the ones that you've seen that grenaded, were the bearings still in good working order?
-RP

[2qmedic]

How long is the typical life of the u joint, 100k 150k 200k?? I know there are other factors that go into the life, but just courious of past results.
At what mileage would be good to replace them??

Also, just thinking about it, on the spline maint at 10k miles, I always pull the drive shaft and apply some lube on the forward drive shaft splines.
I assume that the forward yoke of the u-joint is lubricated by the motor oil???

[fudgie]

No its not. Since you already pulled the drive shaft, pull the U-J. Up behind the engine is a rubber boot. Pull it back and slide the uj out. Should be no slack in the uj at all. Grease it up both female ends and slide it back in. It can be a b!tch but you'll get it. Every thing else you did sounds right. Not sure about life. I have 54k and mine looks good, well I think it is, I'll find out next weekend as I tear into it.

[Misfit]

No its not. Since you already pulled the drive shaft, pull the U-J. Up behind the engine is a rubber boot. Pull it back and slide the uj out. Should be no slack in the uj at all. Grease it up both female ends and slide it back in. It can be a b!tch but you'll get it. Every thing else you did sounds right. Not sure about life. I have 54k and mine looks good, well I think it is, I'll find out next weekend as I tear into it.

The u joint does not require any service. The front half of the yoke is mated to the output shaft of the tranny. That joint does not move. As the swing arm moves up and down the drive shaft moves in and out of the back half of the yoke. Just lube the end of the drive shaft and all is well. There is no reason to lube the front yoke other than when replacing it.

[fudgie]

No its not. Since you already pulled the drive shaft, pull the U-J. Up behind the engine is a rubber boot. Pull it back and slide the uj out. Should be no slack in the uj at all. Grease it up both female ends and slide it back in. It can be a b!tch but you'll get it. Every thing else you did sounds right. Not sure about life. I have 54k and mine looks good, well I think it is, I'll find out next weekend as I tear into it.

The u joint does not require any service. The front half of the yoke is mated to the output shaft of the tranny. That joint does not move. As the swing arm moves up and down the drive shaft moves in and out of the back half of the yoke. Just lube the end of the drive shaft and all is well. There is no reason to lube the front yoke other than when replacing it.

Good point. Tho I was rather surprised that mine showed rust on the u-j, up on the output shaft. This was a few years ago when it was pulled for the 1st time in 30k or so. I greased it up and all has been fine since.

[2qmedic]

Regardless of the forward yoke and splines moving or not, it will be checked in 5k when I pull the rear end again.
My Valk has 65k on it now and it's loving life!!!
Cheers