Maybe We Should Keep This A Secret

[asfltdncr]

A few months ago there was an article in "Friction Zone" about the use of car tires on motorcycles.
Well, I just saw another article in the same where they quote DOT regs regarding darksiders.
I want to keep my CT.  Maybe we shouldn't challenge anyone that says it is dangerous and stupid-just keeping doing what we do-Ride on the Darkside.

[Red Diamond]

Please, lets ride, don't go there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[asfltdncr]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Rio Wil]

Here is a interesting link and a post from that link.


http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?p=641162



Quote:
Originally Posted by porange View Post
Well what about if I put motorcycle tires on my car?
Why would anyone want to?? Compared to P rated radial tires, MTs that would fit on a car are very expensive and hard to get. They are marked with M\C, the DOT mandated marking that means they are motorcycle specific and do not meet the engineering requirements for safe use on a car.

MTs have much lower weight limits than P rated radials, which makes them illegal to install on any vehicle that exceeds the weight limit marked on the tire, such as most, if not all, cars. . If installed on a car a MT will quickly:

1. Overheat, delaminate, bubble, throw off tread and suffer a catastrophic blowout.

2. Suffer a bead or sidewall failure while cornering as a MT does not meet the engineering requirements for the lateral loading for use on a car. A MT is designed only for the maximum 1g of lateral loading possible when leaning a much lighter motorcycle, not the massive lateral loading and weight transfer on a turning car.

3. Wear out very quickly from overloading the much smaller contact patch on a MT, if it didn't suffer a catastrophic blowout first, which it probably would.

4. Suffer from greatly reduced traction under all circumstances due to large Cruiser MTs having substantially harder rubber compounds than virtually any DOT approved P rated radial tires. Large MTs have Shore A Durometer readings of about 70, the longest wearing P rated radials have Shore A Durometer readings of about 65. High performance P rated radials have Shore A Durometer readings in the low to mid 50s. A tire with a softer rubber compound will have proportionately greater traction than the tire with the harder rubber regardless of the size of the contact patch.

5. Have greatly reduced breaking stability due to the hard rubber and small contact patch. Anyone that has had to apply maximum breaking on a MC knows what happens if the rear tire locks. The bike WILL get sideways quickly if the skid is not stopped immediately. The same would be true if a MT was used on the rear of a car, there would be a loss of control from the hard rubber and small contact patch inducing a slide.

So it is easy to see that a MT offers virtually no advantage to a P rated radial when used on a car and is not legal for use on a car if the car exceeds the weight limit of the MT. Using a M\C specific tire on a car is inherently dangerous for the several valid reasons listed above, but despite what so many people seem to think, that does not mean the opposite is true.

A M\C rated tire is inadequate to meet virtually all the performance and safety requirements for use on a car. A P rated radial tire exceeds virtually all the performance and safety requirements for use on any vehicle with the appropriate wheel size and weight limits that are marked on the tire in accordance with DOT regulations. In 1999 the DOT tested Boss Hoss motorcycles and certified them for sale in all 50 states with a Firestone P rated radial on the back wheel. A P rated radial tire is DOT approved for use on 4 wheeled cars, three wheeled cars, three wheeled motorcycles, two wheeled motorcycles, light trucks, trailers and any other vehicle that meets the wheel size and weight limits marked on the tire. Despite what so many people claim, there are no vehicle codes, warranty or insurance issues with using a properly fitted DOT approved P rated radial tire on a motorcycle. I have yet to see anyone give a valid reason, such as the valid reasons above why a MT is unsafe for use on a car, why it is in any way unsafe to use a properly fitted P rated radial on a big bike. I would certainly be interested if there were any valid reasons it is unsafe, but so far there are none.

[Tropic traveler]

Dang, Rio....... after reading that, I'm afraid to put a MC tire back on my motorcycle next tire change!!!
I have thought about getting the tallest car tire that fits the Valk & having a local tire shop shave the corners round a bit. If it is done just right I am thinking that might give the best of both worlds. Car tire grip & wear while minimizing the change in handling that comes from a MC tire to CT swap.
HMMMMMMM.......... ???
Anybody tried that???

[fstsix]

Yep used to go to a shop in San Diego, True and On truck balance my tires on my Crew cab Dually, after he shaved the tires it would ride like Glass. Just thinking to all who are replacing to CT is it necessary to go so Wide?, if i where in need of a new tire i think same height but narrow would help the slow speed parking lot problem, and still give the ultra long life. but yes i have also thought of having the shoulder shaved.

[Farther]

I have to ask the obvious.  Why aren't motorcycle tires with motorcycle contours available with auto tire materials and construction.  I also looked for a 195/70-16 CT with no joy.

[Farther]

Here is an interesting vidio: 

CTOW 2 (Dunlop Winter Sport M3 195/55/16... 180 degree flip	powered by Aeva

[Farther]

Here's one at highway speeds. 

Darkside tire on the highway	powered by Aeva

[Chrisj CMA]

I have to ask the obvious.  Why aren't motorcycle tires with motorcycle contours available with auto tire materials and construction.  I also looked for a 195/70-16 CT with no joy.

There are some tires like you describe....not many and not for our big cruisers.  I believe its a money thing.......they would have to sell bunches of them to make it worthwhile and we are all pretty much set on the soft rubber tires that they make gobs of money on, so why change. 

[Ratdog]

I'm all for that (keeping it a secret).  Frankly... seeing thread after thread, year after year of people trying to convince themselves (as well as everyone else) how great of an idea it is... well... the bottom line question that not ONE person's been able to answer for me is...

If it's such a great idea and promotes superior handling... why aren't the boyz that ride the crotch rockets (for a living) switching over? 

Just because it CAN be done... doesn't make it a better idea.   

[fudgie]

I'm all for that (keeping it a secret).  Frankly... seeing thread after thread, year after year of people trying to convince themselves (as well as everyone else) how great of an idea it is... well... the bottom line question that not ONE person's been able to answer for me is...

If it's such a great idea and promotes superior handling... why aren't the boyz that ride the crotch rockets (for a living) switching over? 

Just because it CAN be done... doesn't make it a better idea.   

I can answer it for you!  Because they are not high milage bikes. Usually they are your around town bikes. If they do travel, its mostly in back of a truck or trailer. Crotch rockets to Valks is no comparison.

[Rio Wil]

Great....you keep it a secret and the rest of us who choose to run a CT will discuss it openly and use it for (generally speaking) our high mileage riding style.  Speaking of which, I will be needing a replacement for my Falkin in the next 5K miles or so, looks like it will do 28K....not bad, thats worth 3 MC tires.
I have been looking at a Toyo Eclipse in a 205-65-16, but I am always looking for a little rounder profile. This next tire should last through a Alaska trip in July and will be doing a bit of maintenance to get the old girl ready....now has 110K miles so a new ujoint, final drive (worn splines), drive flange  dampeners and might just do the clutch for GP's  getting a little shudder when starting off in first gear.......

Question, has anyone found a CT in a 205-65-16 that has way fewer sipes....ie, larger blocks of unbroken tread pattern....

[sugerbear]

#1 crotch rockets lean way farther over than a valk, so they COULD end up on the sidewall.

#2 i have a michelin hydroedge in 205-65-16 and it has large blocks on the side(i look for that also)

[Red Diamond]

Great....you keep it a secret and the rest of us who choose to run a CT will discuss it openly and use it for (generally speaking) our high mileage riding style.  Speaking of which, I will be needing a replacement for my Falkin in the next 5K miles or so, looks like it will do 28K....not bad, thats worth 3 MC tires.
No it's not worth 3 MC tires, it's only worth 2 MC tires, LOL.

[asfltdncr]

I'm all for that (keeping it a secret).  Frankly... seeing thread after thread, year after year of people trying to convince themselves (as well as everyone else) how great of an idea it is... well... the bottom line question that not ONE person's been able to answer for me is...

If it's such a great idea and promotes superior handling... why aren't the boyz that ride the crotch rockets (for a living) switching over? 

Just because it CAN be done... doesn't make it a better idea.   

Because it's hard to find in 17 in.

[Rio Wil]

I looked up a picture of the hydroedge and it looks pretty good, I will have to go  look at it in person.....could be a "contender"  and I want to keep the 65 profile for rpm considerations.   Boy, I wish the lady had a 6th gear that would allow cruising at 80 and turn only about 3k rpm.  Leave the other gears and ratios alone and just add a 6th gear.....sweet.....

[MP]

To compare crotch rockets to touring bikes is like comparing Nascar cars to our family SUV's.

Would you argue that all our family SUV's should be running the Nascar slick tires?  Why not?  They handle better.  They take corners faster, so they should be used on our family cars.

Same applies to our bikes.  Just because a crotch rocket or a race bike could not use a CT, does not mean it is not a good tire for our Valks.

Flame on!

MP

[Momz]

My 98 Rat Rod Valk has Metzlers and they are quite adequate for my "around town" cruising and OK on the twisty back roads.

My 2K I/S has a CT and it definatley makes better sense. It handles highway pot holes better, rides smoother, has a higher load rating, and also handles the twisties with aplumb. M/C tires never lasted more than 9400 miles on my I/S,...and I don't think that I'd want to change tires on a high mileage tour.

Both types of tires are very good for the different types of riding that we subject our/my Valks to.

[SANDMAN5]

To compare crotch rockets to touring bikes is like comparing Nascar cars to our family SUV's.

Would you argue that all our family SUV's should be running the Nascar slick tires?  Why not?  They handle better.  They take corners faster, so they should be used on our family cars.

Same applies to our bikes.  Just because a crotch rocket or a race bike could not use a CT, does not mean it is not a good tire for our Valks.

Flame on!

MP

Zackly!! Anybody that says the Darkside will work for everybody on any bike is just as wrong
as those who say it won't work for anybody on any bike. Matter of choice.