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Author Topic: Milwaukee Iron No More ??  (Read 2597 times)
Sodbuster
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« on: April 29, 2010, 05:01:56 PM »

Check this out ....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100429/ap_on_bi_ge/wi_harley_cost_cuts_1
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VRCC # 30938
'99 Std. - Black & Silver - "Spirit Horse"

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alph
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Eau Claire, WI.


« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 06:13:01 PM »

i just hope they don't go out of business.  i get enough crap for riding a "jap" bike, if harley goes out of business i'm sure their customers will blame forgein companies for the dumping of cheap bikes on the market, nothing to do with the lack of quality.
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Big Rig
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Woolwich NJ


« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 06:49:32 PM »

Harley has been threatening that at the York Pa plant for years. I think they are looking for the unions to take some cuts...if they close there, they will open some where in the south. I was talking to several employees at the York Facility and they feared that they would move manufacturing jobs to Southern Texas and Southern Florida were the pay is considerably less...

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NITRO
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Eau Claire, WI


« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 06:55:12 PM »

I doubt they'll go out of business, but the colidating and slashing employees is going to hurt. Who would be willing to work for less than Wisconsinites are paid? Hmmmmmm
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John Schmidt
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a/k/a Stuffy. '99 I/S Valk Roadsmith Trike

De Pere, WI (Green Bay)


« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 07:05:29 PM »

I had to chuckle at the comments made by readers on that article...near the bottom. The first guy said something about "and the Japanese are putting out a more affordable bike that may not last 20 years like a Harley".....

Who is he kidding, a Harley lasting 20 years and a Jap bike won't. The only HD I've seen lasting anywhere near that long either wasn't ridden much, or has had the engine either replaced or rebuilt more than once. Granted, they're more reliable than they were 15 yrs. ago, but still not that robust. I wouldn't mind having one for running around the Orlando Metro area. It's smaller and easier to bust through the traffic, but if I'm headed out for a long trip...no thanks, they're just not that comfy to me. And yes, I've ridden one as recent as last week.
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asfltdncr
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 10:25:22 PM »

Ya hafta wunder....How Hardley could be in financial trouble when every other bike on the road is a harley, their clothing line, accessories, and brand.Actually, I heard they got caught up in the same loan bundling and liar's loan problems as the home mortgage industry.
They paid 129 million to close down Buell while not considering offers on any or all of Buell.They bought MV Augusta (Italian Beauties) and turned around and I believe sold them to a Chinese firm.
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fiddle mike
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 01:39:06 AM »

Harley has been threatening that at the York Pa plant for years. I think they are looking for the unions to take some cuts...if they close there, they will open some where in the south. I was talking to several employees at the York Facility and they feared that they would move manufacturing jobs to Southern Texas and Southern Florida were the pay is considerably less...



Another article read that management had threatened to move to KY to get out from under union demands.  Move that plant to South Texas and the machines won't even be built by American hands.
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fstsix
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 04:21:05 AM »

I have been working again at the HD dealer all week, sales are down almost 70% Dam President BUSH!!!.....well here is Sonny's thoughts about what he would ride if not a member or should i say the MAN of the Hell's Angell's...................................................................................................

      

That is typical of the unconventional and bizarre relationship between Harley customers and the company. Here was a business in the precarious situation of having a constituency of outlaw-type riders who provided the most valuable research and development for their flawed product. During the Fifties, Sixties and Seventies, when hip riders bought a Harley-Davidson, they, in Levingston’s words, “tore it all the way down”. Off came the leather saddlebags, front bumpers and sometimes even the front brakes. Riders would replace the oversized seat and fuel tank, and added high bars, or “ape-hangers”. Thus the chopper was born, and eventually the stodgy Harley brass had to admit that their users were on to something. But not without Harley-Davidson maintaining a coy distance from their “dirty and oily” core adapters. “After we fixed their bikes the way we wanted them,” says Sonny Barger, “they didn’t even want us inside their dealerships. They said we were ruining their bikes. We used to have to send our old ladies into the shops to buy parts. Otherwise they wouldn’t sell them to us. Now they make them like we used to build them.”

“If you wanted to find drugs in 1977,” laughs Holmstrom, “generally a guy who rode an AMF Harley could hook you up.”

To this day Levingston remains a staunch Harley loyalist, and probably will be to his grave. “A Harley is the only bike I’ll ever ride. Years ago I never thought I’d live to see the day when I could ride a Harley-Davidson from Oakland to Los Angeles and only have to stop for gas, as opposed to fixing it on the roadside. The Harley touring bike I have now rides like a Cadillac.”

Barger is less complimentary and philosophical about Harley’s progress. He rides a 2003 Road King and claims that if he wasn’t a Hell’s Angel he would probably ride a BMW or a Honda ST1100. “At least now, they build a better bike. It’s decent. While it’s still a piece of junk, it’s way better than it was. Now they've got the new V-Rod. It’s really a good motor, but they put it on an unrideable bike. It's the most uncomfortable bike they’ve ever made.”

According to Holmstrom, Harley is a lot better at relating to customers than before, thanks to Willie G. Davidson. A child of the Fifties, a sort of beatnik character and grandson of the co-founder William Davidson, he has helped Harley maintain a grasp on its core customers while still adhering to distance and resistance toward the “one per center” community, the same riders who gave their bikes priceless street credibility and helped Harley become a billion-dollar corporation.

“I’m willing to bet they’ve never given Sonny Barger a free motorcycle,” says Holmstrom. “Nor Peter Fonda, for that matter. Jay Leno would stand a much better chance of getting one.” The same shrewd people who rescued the company and remember the bad old days still run Harley-Davidson today. After the AMF debacle, Harley is unlikely to repeat the mistakes of the past. The company currently works hard to develop appealing and innovative new products, which not only includes motorcycles and accessories, but licensing everything from coffee mugs and clothing lines to CD compilations and key chains.

The main challenge Harley-Davidson faces is to maintain high profits without alienating its core audience. Even today, riders might dislike the company, but they love their Harleys. Over the course of decades, their product, once available on American streets for a few hundred dollars, has evolved into a major-ticket item.

“It’s a good bet that if you put an $11,000 Honda next to a $20,000 Harley, most of that $9,000 difference is profit margin,” says Holmstrom. “There’s only so much material that goes into a bike. A lot more development probably went into the Honda than the Harley, technology that Harley has been able to amortise over decades and decades, using the same classic 1930s design on most of their bikes.

“Harley-Davidson’s future prosperity lies in the continuing quality of its bikes as much as it does with its highly recognisable brand.

“Harley is terrific at building cult-like brand loyalty and they’re smart enough to realise that ultimately they’re not selling a motorcycle as much as they’re selling a religion.”

Keith and Kent Zimmerman are co-authors of Hell’s Angel and Ridin’ High, Livin’ Free with Ralph “Sonny” Barger             http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/article1152577.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 04:33:47 AM by fstsix » Logged
doubletee
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Fort Wayne, IN


« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 05:10:09 AM »

"...they’re smart enough to realise that ultimately they’re not selling a motorcycle as much as they’re selling a religion" - That pretty much says it all about HD. It's also the reason (or is it the result of?)  they do so well selling all of the Harley-branded merchandise. The machine's an afterthought, anymore.
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fiddle mike
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 05:25:27 AM »

I have been working again at the HD dealer all week, sales are down almost 70% Dam President BUSH!!!.....well here is Sonny's thoughts about what he would ride if not a member or should i say the MAN of the Hell's Angell's...................................................................................................

      
 The same shrewd people who rescued the company and remember the bad old days still run Harley-Davidson today. After the AMF debacle, Harley is unlikely to repeat the mistakes of the past. ...


I'm sure I read a history indicating that Harley was circling the bowl when AMF saved it and that any "debacle" was the result of H-D's employees throwing a tantrum and sabotaging the product.  Am I off the mark? 
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alph
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Eau Claire, WI.


« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 06:31:34 AM »

I doubt they'll go out of business, but the colidating and slashing employees is going to hurt. Who would be willing to work for less than Wisconsinites are paid? Hmmmmmm

WAY TO GO MEXICO!!            that would be funny if they moved to mexico!  nothing like having illegal aliens making an "all american" motorcycle!!  (they wouldn't be aliens if they were in their own country, i know....)
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Promote world peace, ban all religion.

Ride Safe, Ride Often!!  cooldude
ArmyValker
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Richland, MO


« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 06:46:56 AM »

Good article  cooldude

There is a different mentality between the Harley rider and anything else. Other companies have to sell their bikes on the merit of the machine.

Case in point, look at the Valkyrie Rune, how many of you can walk into a dealership in the last year and see a brand new 2004 Rune sitting on the dealership floor?

Harley DOES sell the religion, and the brotherhood. The bike is an afterthought. Not that it's a bad thing, I've got TONS of friends who say "man, what a nice bike, but I'll never buy anything but a Harley."

They don't care about the bikes, they're not as important as the image.

I like harleys, but the brand carries no emotional baggage for me. If you build the best bike, I will buy it. If you don't, I won't.
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Cruzen
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Wigwam Holbrook, AZ 2008

Scottsdale, Arizona


« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 11:22:00 AM »

OK so has anyone been paying attention to what has happened at HD over the years.  In 1994 that Wisconsin plant had about 900 employees.  They kept expanding based on their yearly increase in sales.  Anyone with any brains knew this was an artificial increase caused by a temporary market.  I mean how many lawyers and accounts are there that want to buy over priced underpowered chrome mobiles.  Harley’s production peaked at 350,000 units in 2006.  Now that the production is headed back down to a normal 200,000 units per year, yes people are going to get let go.  But expecting to stay at that inflated 350K rate is just f……g stupid on their part but they are not the only industry to fall into that trap.

Anyway if anyone remembers when Congress passed a tax on import motorcycles in the mid 1980’s impacting bikes over I believe it was 1200 or 1400CC.  This was supposedly to give Harley an opportunity to “recover”.  ( Or so it was documented in several financial publications at that time.) To combat that, Honda moved production to the US.  Now that the tax has ended, Honda moved production of big bikes back to their home land.  Harley is just trying to scare up support for tax breaks and incentives.  They move out of Wisconsin they will be dead.  A large portion of their production is in Pennsylvania yet most of their consumers are not aware of that.  They all think they are riding “Milwaukee Iron”.

I must thank HD though for their rapid expansion for while I never owned a HD, I made a few nickels on their stock between 2001 and 2006.  Thank you very much!  Then sold my stocks in September of 2006 when it crossed $55 per because I felt they could not continue that rate of production for long.   I used the profits from sale of the stock to buy my Valk and reinvested the principle.

When I looked at the growth rate of Motorcycle sales in that time period verses auto and truck sales.  Trucks and cars were growing at about 8% per year while bikes around 2005-2006 were increasing at 20-30% per year.  Now is there anyone out there who thinks that rate of growth will continue for a long period of time? 
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Denny
PAVALKER
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Pittsburgh, Pa


« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 12:11:55 PM »

If they would have just used plastic bags/sacks when selling their high priced clothing line instead of these expensive fancy boxes.... they could have saved a few pennies for a higher profit margin.....




It's a self inflicted wound... if in fact it is a wound at all.  Could be just more hype to get more concessions and tax breaks to increase profit margin.
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John                           
doubletee
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Fort Wayne, IN


« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 12:31:33 PM »

Anyway if anyone remembers when Congress passed a tax on import motorcycles in the mid 1980’s impacting bikes over I believe it was 1200 or 1400CC.  


I think it was on anything over 700ccs or 749ccs. I made sure to get one of the last V45 Magnas that were still 750ccs before the new crop of 700s.
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12voltclothing
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 01:28:46 PM »

IMO a ploy to cut cost and unions. But consumers won't see any price reduction. Just a way to make more profit.

Look at years past, Harley was charging over list and making a fortune off customers. I don't feel sorry for them
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Sodbuster
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2010, 03:00:40 PM »

I remember back in the day (70's & 80's) when H-D's were thought of as another motorcycle amongst other MC's like the Triumph's, Norton's, Moto-Guzzi's, etc. and people rode them even thou they were prone to break down. But these days you have a more reliable bike and people trailer the darn things around.  I don't feel like we have the motorcycle riders like we used to. We've gotten soft and wimpy.  Also, I can sense that H-D has seen the better days and the tide is turning. Heck I'd be willing to bet that the new high tech scooters are selling better than H-D or any big bike for that matter.

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VRCC # 30938
'99 Std. - Black & Silver - "Spirit Horse"

Dear God, Seriously .... Thanks for creating beer.  You rock !!

ataDude #62
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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2010, 05:54:06 PM »

... Look at years past, Harley was charging over list and making a fortune off customers. I don't feel sorry for them

That would have been the independent dealers selling over list... not H-D.   cooldude
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SANDMAN5
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Mileage 65875

East TN


« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2010, 05:54:02 AM »

Quote


I've tried twice to post a comment on that story but it won't let me!!!
Reckon the word "Valkyrie" sends up a red flag and blocks it? Grin
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"Evolution" is a dying religion being kept alive with tax dollars.


TGViper
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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2010, 06:14:02 AM »

I doubt they'll go out of business, but the colidating and slashing employees is going to hurt. Who would be willing to work for less than Wisconsinites are paid? Hmmmmmm

South Dakotans..... Angry
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