CAR TIRE QUESTION (REALLY)

[KW]

I have a serious question about car tires versus motorcycle tires. I’m REALLY not trying to start a rant and HONESTLY don’t have a final opinion. I haven’t made up my mind, but probably will keep my Avons. I’m happy with them, so why change? My last front tire went 28k. My rear tire was at 16k and still looked brand new when I got a nail in it.  Having said that; I love the looks of a CT on a Valk AND I have read much of the anecdotic evidence in support of using a CT. Plus a friend in Florida who I respect and admire uses a CT. He was honest in his evaluation and said there’s a learning curve and some limitations, but he had learned to love the CT and wouldn’t change back. I thought that was probably the most level headed answer I’ve heard yet.  I read a post the other day, however, where the CT user said the CT was better in EVERY way and then proceeded to count them all off (tread life, rubber contact to pavement, etc)

So, the question that keeps nagging me is; why don’t motorcycle manufactures put them on their bikes if there “better in everyway?” Seriously, what’s the answer?  Or, at least recommend them as an after warranty alternative?  And, why don’t the local cycle shops sell them? Liability? If the tire is better and safer, where’s the liability?

I know ‘someone’ is going to flame me. . . but these are real questions and I’m not trying to start anything. 

[Wingman]

It's a reasonable question and hopefully no one will flame you. Boss Hoss comes equipped with a CT.

The biggest problem is that bikes got heavier, quicker than the motorcycle tire manufacturers were able to compensate for. Many got tired quickly of having to replace tires every 5k or so and found alternatives. I have ridden a bike with a CT and it wasn't for me (my bike wears Avon), but there are many that ride the Valkyrie that swear by them and more power to them! I think there is enough cumulative mileage on this board alone, to justify using them.

I just don't like them cause they feel funny when I turn! 

[Moonshot_1]

Great question!
Can’t say that I’ve got a lot of experience on a CT, around 4000 miles now.
But I do have an opinion about the use of a CT on a cycle.

There is substantial difference in handling. Can’t say it is better, can’t say it is worse. Just different. Some people like the handling characteristics some don’t. You need to enjoy being more aggressive in handling the bike. Your skills will be more into play than if you have an MC tire on. I like how it handles BUT there is a learning curve. It is rare for someone to love the change from the start.

There are pluses to making the change. Better tire life, better braking, better wear, generally able to bear greater loads.

As to why the MC Manufactures don’t subscribe to CT’s Who knows?
I would hazard a guess that MC manufactures as well as many if not most riders like their bikes nimble.
CTs do make your bike a little less nimble but more stable and for a cruiser or touring class bike that can be a desirable quality on long hauls for some people.
And though less nimble, with the experience of a few hundred miles you should be able to gain that back in short order.

I wouldn’t recommend going with a CT to someone who is a weekend rider and thinks that a 100 mile ride is long ride.

But if you got a Cruiser or Touring class bike and you are just getting warmed up after 200 miles in the morning after the 700 from yesterday, then, yeah, it’s worth a look.

[Tundra]

KW...My response when folks ask is generally, "It's not for everyone" I have personally only heard negative comments at motorcycle type gatherings. I listen to the comments without engaging anymore, don't even let them know it's my bike till I mount up and ride away. I am really amazed at the negativity it has brought to me. (even from some Wingers)
  I have read every single piece of research I could get my hands on, and like you inquired about it FROM THOSE USING IT before making my decision. "Kilroy" a member here read one of my inquiries and contacted me, asking me if I wanted to try his bike before jumping fence. I did and I'm happy with it. Works well for me.
  Handling? Yeah, it's different and don't let anyone tell you it's not.
  Why don't bike shops sell them?  Can't answer that one, although my guess is you hit the nail sqaure on the head. "Liability" It is a CAR TIRE, maybe that's something the insurance companies would fight over not paying out?
  Low speed handling?   Well. that's not fair for me to answer, cause that's my thing. My bikes rolling, my feet are up! I practice every month in parking lots. I love leaving events at slow speed with a passenger and out manuvering everyone, where some guys are making three point turns to get out and dragging their feet the whole time. (that spells rookie to me) I recently made a u-turn on a narrow road using the practiced technique's from Jerry's ride like a pro series. I was the only one to make that turn feet up, feathering clutch and brake. Head looking where I wanted to go.
  Mileage  I think it will outshine anything here.
If your happy with the Avons, keep using them. They are some of the best handling tire you can put on a Valkyrie, makes it feel like a whole different bike. Before they offered the fat rear tire I used the Bridgestone Battle Axe 200 on the rear with Avon on front. Nice combo.
 I would never try to convince anyone to run a CT, just give them good reading information so they can make an educated decission. When you coming back to Florida? Meet half way somewhere?

[Jabba]

I honestly did not notice the difference when I put the CT on my bike.  It's a Falken 205/55/16.  Since I have a couple 1000 miles on it... I notice a little wiggle one in a while like when I am on a seam in the pavement at very slow speeds.

The fact that you got 28K on a front and 16K on a rear is AMAZING to me.  I only get about 15 on a front and it takes 2 rears for a front for me. 

Why don't MC tire makers and dealerships do car tires?  My guess is $$$.  What's the margin on a $300 MC tire vs a $100 car tire?  My guess is that the difference is VAST. 

Everything in business comes down to $$.

If you've ever ridden a bike on Chen Shing tires... you'd agree that safety ain't always the TOP priority to tire dealers.

Jabba

[therapist]

You have had good responses so far, not much to add except this-all car tires are not created equal.  One of my pet peeves has been that motorcycle tires are discussed by brands/models, and most would agree they all have different strengths and weaknesses.  But, for some reason, car tires are all lumped together as if they all ride the same.  As one of the early pioneers (defenders) of the car tire, I did a bunch of research and found that a high performance/summer only type tire with sticky rubber and a strong side wall made the most sense to me.  I first went with the Goodyear Eagle and, although it was great in the rain and straight line riding, something was missing.  I did more research and came up with the Toyo Proxes T1R, which I have about 15K on and it still looks new.  I know some have had good luck with the, so called, family sedan tire...but I like my choice and will replace it with another Toyo.

As to why manufacturers don't equip motorcycles with car tires...think about the other changes many of us have made to the Valk...changing timing (trigger wheel), K and N air filters, removing some of the EPA plumbing, different exhausts, etc..  Motorcyclists have always changed stock bikes...sometimes it is an improvement, sometimes it is just to make the bike unique.  To each his own, I say.

[fstsix]

KW, If i could get that kind mileage on the Rear tire i would recommend keep doing what you are doing, i Have tried 3 different brands on the rear and 3 on the front, Now i do have 15000 on the front Avon Venom and it still has a wobble @ 25-30 mph All Air pressure tried, My hope is the Motorcycle Manufacturers will see this thread and VTX and all the other sites that are sick and tired of poor performing MC tires and PUT SOME RUBBER ON THE DAM THING for the price. JMHO  They are loosing money from sales, Remember i have met many other Valk owners that have CT's and do not post on this board so let's not think it is just us here.

[Bob E.]

The ONLY reason I run a car tire is mileage/cost.  If I could get 16K+ miles out of a rear mc tire, I'd still be running them.  But I never got anywhere close to that.  The absolute best I have is just shy of 10,000 miles (E3) and the worst is just barely 5000 (Metz).  Others have netted 6000 (OEM Dunlop), 7400 (Avon Cobra), and 9000 (Avon Venom).  So I decided to try a car tire and after reading everything I could, I decided on the General Altimax 205/60/16 and it is a fine tire.  As far as handling, it is a much heavier handling tire, but has very good traction even leaned over to peg dragging angles.  I'm just not as crazy about the heavy feeling.  Also, there are some other "feeling" issues related to the squarish flat profile when you cross longitudinal deviations in the road surface...like crossing the crown in the road, pavement ruts, or like when I recently dropped mine in a parking lot because I ran across a separation in the pavement where the right side was about 1" higher than the left causing me to lose balance at a walking pace.

[Rowdy]

   I'm still in the learning phase - I have about 800 miles logged on the CT so far
I have not decided if I like that new feel yet or not  I'll give it till the end of the season and then decide if I will stay with a CT or go back to the MC tire 

Honda dealership mounted the tire - however they marked on the work order that they where not responsible or recomend 

[PharmBoy]

I have yet to see such a sane, fair & balanced discussion on rear tires as this one.  I would commend each and every one of the folks who have previously posted on this subject.  I have nothing to add to this discussion.  All the Pros & Cons have been pretty well presented as far as I can see.  This is America, research the subject at hand and do what you want to do...JTL  Oh Yes, you might note below that Will Rogers was a pretty intelligent country boy.  

[solo1]

I did some research into car wheel size vs motorcycle wheel size (or rims if you want to call them that).

There is a specification difference between a 15 inch car wheel and a 15 inch motorcycle wheel.  The diameter of the wheels are slightly different along with the tolerances. In theory, you could get into trouble over it.  However, I've never heard of a motorcycle mounted car tire losing air suddenly because of a loss of sealing against the rim of the wheel.

I have run a car tire on my Valk but that doesn't count as the bike was always straight up because of the sidecar.  The traction on the car tire is vastly improved over a motorcycle tire (in a straight line). I can't speak for leaned over.

I agree that a car tire works great although with different handling characteristics.  I won't argue with success.

[Momz]

I have two Valks; an I/S with a CT and a standard with a MC tire.
Two sigfiicantly different bikes for two different types of riding.
 
The I/S is (has been) used for long distance riding while heavily loaded and it is a better touring bike for it.  

My standard (Rat Rod) has Metzlers and is a better bike for day rides and in town rides as it does handle low speeds with far more aplumb.

Don't knock ones choice until you have the opportunity to ride several types of bikes with both tire types.

[KW]

Thank you. I sincerely appreciate the thoughtful replies. There was some great information. In my view, it’s the VRCC board at its best; “answering dumb questions from a slow witted guy” like me.  Also, I just watched Dag’s video of his CT for the first time. It was interesting. 

Just an FYI, I run my Avons tires significantly over-inflated . . . No doubt that’s the reason behind the mileage, but I’ve found that over-inflating can create handling issues on wet surfaces. I’ve had to let air out in long rides in the rain. It’s a small inconvenience for the increase mileage. The OEM Dunlops were going bald at 8k and I changed to Avons at 10k & 12k (read about them on this site about 8 years ago.) I’m on my 2nd front and 3rd rear with the Avons.

Tundra; we’re ‘snowbirds’ now . . .  and we’ll be back down after Christmas. Lord willing, we can meet up. We were only down for 2 months this year and didn’t ride much in February because we left our winter gear home!!!! (LOL) It was COLD! Not Michigan winter cold by any means, but still COLD!! We ended up logging about 1500 miles in 3 weeks of just riding the back roads around our county, with one trip over to Daytona and a short hop over to the gulf coast (we have a Webster address, right off 301.) I hope we can meet some more Florida riders next year. We've met a few in past years, but this year it didn't work out.     

[Tropic traveler]

KW, where exactly are you off US301?
I ride 301 between Ocala & Brooksville frequently right through the Webster area.
We could easily do some winter rides! 

[SANDMAN5]

In the original post you mentioned "limitations". What exactly are they?
I have close to 40,000 "car tar" miles and haven't found any. I do agree
with the learning curve statement....mine was less than 100 miles. (Just
to be safe I'll say "200" miles ). But there is also a learning curve going
from, say, a worn Metz to a brand new Avon, yes? And, IMHO, the car tar
is NOT better in every situation, but it's better or equal in MOST situations,
for me. Love the looks, love the feel, LOVE the mileage and low cost, love
watching peoples reaction when they see it.....NO negatives for me!! YMMV.

[Tundra]

KW, Give me a heads up when your coming down, I'll make time. There's several active Valkyrie riders in or close to that area. Thunderbolt, Sealskiner, TropicTraveler, Florida Scott, Flask, Silverfox and the list goes on. Maybe a winter gathering would be in order?

[bigdog99]

i wish i could have gotten the mileage some have talked about with a mc tire, i could not get over 11,000 on the front and 7,000 on the rear. thats the only reason i went with car tire, avon os definitely better than E3's in "my opinion" i have 9,000 on front and rear and both still look good. i do believe the CT will outlast the Avon, but i will get another Avon when time.

[fudgie]

I'll be honest. I looked for cheap and miles. I looked at all the posts for 2 years before deciding to run the CT. Since the divorce  I put on a load of miles. Since 2006 I put a new 200 mm Metz on every spring. At $250 a pop it hurt my rally funds.  When I put it on I went for a 20 mile ride. I was disappointed. I could not tell a differance from my 200 Metz.  I had to go find the crappy roads to see what the hubbub was about. Minor differances. Maybe its my riding style which can get aggressive when Kits on board. I am a highway 65 mph+ rider. Not alot of curves. It definitly tracks better then my Metz ground down roads and grates. As far as the edge of the pavement thing. Yea, but so did my metz. Wish I did it 2 yrs ago. Maybe someone should try different CT like they do MC tires. If you dont change tire every year then yea I guess a MC tire is good for you. My Hankook K-106   

[bigdog99]

K106  x  2

[KW]

Tropic Traveler; You go right past the road the leads back to us. . .  We’re in an area called the ‘Woods.’ Look for the Oasis Campground, east side of 301, 5 miles north of the 50/301 intersection, where I assume you turn on from Brooksville? It’s is just before St. Catherine’s.  BTW - I met a Valk rider at that gas station on the 50/301 corner this year. We weren't on the bike and, unfortunately, I don’t remember his name, but it seems like he said he was from Brooksville? 

Tundra; It definitely sounds like a plan. . . We’d love to meet some more Florida folks.  I’ve ridden with a few, though not in recent years. We tried to make it over for the Daytona meet at the Sunshine Mall this year, but got there about 2 hours late.  Are any Florida folks making it to InZane this year that you know of?

[Mildew]

I had a friend ride my bike and I rode his. He said I was crazy for having that car tire. He said that bike went where it wants to go. He told his harley friends he was scared the whole time. We went about 10 miles or so. ... I remember my bike having a weeble wobble feeling at first but it wasn't long and it just felt normal. Personally I wouldn't use a m/c  tire on the rear again if it was free.

[fudgie]

I had a friend ride my bike and I rode his. He said I was crazy for having that car tire. He said that bike went where it wants to go. He told his harley friends he was scared the whole time. We went about 10 miles or so. ... I remember my bike having a weeble wobble feeling at first but it wasn't long and it just felt normal. Personally I wouldn't use a m/c  tire on the rear again if it was free.

Maybe he was afraid of the size of the Valk! 

[John Schmidt]

You got some good input from these posts, can't argue with any of them. My take on them originally was due to the cost....I had two rear Metz ruined in a row by road debris. I had the 200 version mounted in both cases and was just over 5k on one, and less than that on the replacement. All that in less than a year, and prior to that I had over 12k on a 200 Metz because it wasn't ruined by a nail or screw the size of my little finger. That's MY little finger...not yours. 

I decided for the difference in price to try the CT, couldn't be happier. And the braking characteristics saved my butt twice in the Orlando traffic because some dumb driver cut me off the first time, and the second time a soccer mom ran a light while on the phone. I was moving pretty good the second time and locked up front and rear brakes, but in either case there was no indication it was going to "high side" on me. That rear tire just squatted and grabbed pavement....in a straight line. I stopped a lot quicker that I would have with a MC tire. I have about 10k on it, maybe a bit more, and don't plan to go back. There is a learning curve, but was rather short, and yes...it will wiggle some for you in trying to follow the tar snakes at slow speeds. I also noticed the bike is less affected by a sidewind. Looking forward to seeing you this summer, good Lord willing and Rita is able to travel to Ohio.

And Tundra, I'm soooo hurt, you didn't include my name in that list of Florida riders.  I mean....dude....how could you forget a name like: John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt?   

[Tundra]

John, I'm truly sorry. I know when you start naming names, your bound to forget someone
Wasn't intentional.

[John Schmidt]

John, I'm truly sorry. I know when you start naming names, your bound to forget someone
Wasn't intentional.

I was pulling your leg buddy, I surely wasn't taking offense. See ya down the road. 

[KW]

Hi John, I'm sure sorry we missed you this time down to the Sunshine State. Debby and I were just talking about InZane. We haven't committed yet. . . but we're difinately going up.  I see, however, all the cheaper rooms are gone. My bad. If you snooze, you lose    We'll most likely just ride up a day or two. . .  I'm guessing it's about a 3 1/2 hour ride if you move right along, 4+ if you ride like your bike is going to break. Have you mapped your route up through Michigan yet? If you want to get off the expressway and actually SEE Michigan, hop over to M-66 (For the record; 127 north is a BEAUTIFUL road when you get up north.) Coming from Ohio, M-66 would be a little out of your way, but you'll go right through our town. There's a lot of flatland 'between here & there' on this route, but it's good road with hardly any traffic for most of the way. And, man, there's GREAT Mom & Pop restaurants along the way. The best (IMO) is Dave's in Lake City; home of the 3 pound Jalapeño burger. And, yes, I ate the thing, but never got my t-shirt becasue they were out of tent sizes  Man, I burnt my rear farting flames all the way home that day. . . . Too much info? Welcome to Michigan boys!

[John Schmidt]

I want to stop in Holt(Lansing area) to see a former daughter-in-law and her dogs(and her cooking). The dogs are actually the big attraction, known them since they were just a few weeks old. Last time through there they went nuts, I couldn't sit without one of them laying on my feet or trying to jump in my lap. Also have a cousin in Midland(their summer place), so will probably be taking 127 north out of Lansing. I'll be giving you a shout when I'm headed that way.

[KW]

If it works out, we can jump over to 127 and meet up for coffee/breakfast or whatever. . . Holt is only a 40 minutes away from me and St. Johns (north of Lansing on 127) is only a 1/2 hour.