Fork seal: need help!

[Baloo]

Dang! My Valk seems to start showing her age... Working around last night to fix the petcock problem, I found some oil on the timing belt cover. Looked down: nice oil spill on the front tire. The right fork seal started to leak. Sooooo.... I'm off for a fork job, I guess.

I reviewed Dag's write-up and the service manual, but I'm left with a few questions:

1- On an I/S, I suppose you have to remove the fairing to gain access to the fork caps??

2- As opposed to the manual, Dag is doing the job with the forks on. I have a sandard motorcycle lift. Will it lift high enough to be able to pull the sliders off?

3- Mine is leaking on the right side, but I guess I might as well do both sides and be done with it. On the left side, there seems to be a special tool needed. I seem to remember reading somewhere that you don't need it if you just replace the seal and leave the springs in. Is that right?

4- Do you need to replace the dust seal as well, or just the oil seal and re-use the dust seal?

5- What kind of oil is used to refill the fork tubes?

6- If I understand the procedure a bit, you remove the fork caps, then the dust seal, then the retaining ring and then you can pull the sliders out, right? Is it the same for both sides?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I never worked on the fork before and I'm a little nervous to work on them...

[sandy]

You do not need to remove the fairing on an I/S. Tip: Loosen the top triple tree clamp and use a 15/16th box wrench to loosen the top cap before removing the fork from the triple trees. You don't have to replace the dust seal. OEM seals come with both seals but K&L seals are sold as oil seals in pairs with no dust seals. I've used both brands with no problems. 10 wt fork oil is standard. I use 15 wt with Progressive springs. Yes: your lift will raise the bike high enough to remove the forks.

[asfltdncr]

Personally, I think it may be easier to remove your fork legs and tubes from your triple trees and do the work outside of the possibility of scratching your tank,etc.
The amount of oil to put back in is very important.  Too much can cause a leak in your new seals.  I think there is an on-line manual on this forum and it would be worth your while to run through the job in the manual and that together with Dags instructions will help you through the whole process.
When you're done with the forks, make sure that you put the front wheel back in the sequence laid out on this forum also.

[Anthony]

1- On an I/S, I suppose you have to remove the fairing to gain access to the fork caps??

sorry, i have a std, no info on I/S

2- As opposed to the manual, Dag is doing the job with the forks on. I have a sandard motorcycle lift. Will it lift high enough to be able to pull the sliders off?

yes,
if you are able to lift the front wheel +/- 10" of the ground, there will be enough room once the front wheel is off.
That was no issue at all on my standard "Atlas" lift.

3- Mine is leaking on the right side, but I guess I might as well do both sides and be done with it. On the left side, there seems to be a special tool needed. I seem to remember reading somewhere that you don't need it if you just replace the seal and leave the springs in. Is that right?

yes prefer to do both; on the left side, you need the special tool or you won't be able to slide off the seal.

4- Do you need to replace the dust seal as well, or just the oil seal and re-use the dust seal?

while you are in there, replace !
Mind you : in Dag's order list is mentioned the seal and the seal set : the set includes the oil and dust seal ! you don't need to order double oil seals (like i did).

5- What kind of oil is used to refill the fork tubes?

std = fork oil 10W ; if you change to progressive springs while you are in there, some have changed to 15W. my advice : start with 10W, and let the ride decide if you need to change viscosity.

6- If I understand the procedure a bit, you remove the fork caps, then the dust seal, then the retaining ring and then you can pull the sliders out, right? Is it the same for both sides?

for both :first loosen upper fork tube pinch bolts
Right : fork caps, dust seal, retaing ring,
left : fork caps, lock nut (special tool) , dust seal, retaing ring,
for both : pull hard in short quick strokes to get fork out.


yes you can do it.
Anthony

[Ricky-D]

Thinking that simply replacing the seals will solve your problem is faulty logic!

There are sliding parts inside the shock tube that wear and cause the seals to eventually leak.

You must do a complete job or else expect to have leaking seals in a very short time later.

***

[Gryphon Rider]

3- Mine is leaking on the right side, but I guess I might as well do both sides and be done with it. On the left side, there seems to be a special tool needed. I seem to remember reading somewhere that you don't need it if you just replace the seal and leave the springs in. Is that right?

yes prefer to do both; on the left side, you need the special tool or you won't be able to slide off the seal.

You DON'T need a special tool to remove any of the dust or oil seals.  You do, however, need a method to drive in the new oil seals.  I made a seal driver from the description on the Rattlebars web page:  http://www.rattlebars.com/vtx/forktools.html
When I made mine I made the cut that separates the two halves differently.  I used a coping saw so I could cut a "V" part way down, rather than cutting in a straight line.  This prevents the two halves from shifting relative to each other.

[Gryphon Rider]

Thinking that simply replacing the seals will solve your problem is faulty logic!
There are sliding parts inside the shock tube that wear and cause the seals to eventually leak.
You must do a complete job or else expect to have leaking seals in a very short time later.
***

I disagree, assuming you are talking about the fork slider bushings.  The Honda service manual says:

Fork Slider Bushing
Visually inspect the fork slider bushings.
Replace the bushings if there is excessive scoring or scratching, or if the teflon is worn so that the copper surface appears on more than 3/4 of the entire surface.

Check the back-up ring; replace it if there is any distortion at the points shown.  (page 13-21)

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Pay attention to which way seals and dust seals come out because it is easy to put them in upside down. Don't ask how I know this.

[Anthony]

You DON'T need a special tool to remove any of the dust or oil seals.  

as Baloo was already referring to " a special tool for the left side", it was clear to me he was reffering to the Honda 44 MM Lock Nut Wrench. 07VMA-MZ0010A.

you are correct :  you do not need any special tools to remove the seals, that PVC part works great, but
you do need the "special tool" : Honda 44 MM Lock Nut Wrench. 07VMA-MZ0010A
to disassemble / remove the left fork from the tube.
and then you can slide off those seals.

that picture of a home made fork seal driver, inspired me also to make my own, when i was getting ready for the task, thanks !

+1 on the direction of the oil seals
Anthony

[Baloo]

Yeah... I was referring to the special socket to take the left lock nut out... Guess I'll try to find if I can borrow the tool somewhere. If I cannot find it, I guess my only choice will be to repair the RH tube (the one that is leaking) and hope for the best for the LH... Unless I buy the tool...

[Gryphon Rider]

I guarantee that if all you are doing is changing the seals, and not removing the springs, you do not need tool 07VMA-MZ0010A.  I did not have that tool and still changed my fork seals.  You only need to remove the springs if you are using the linear measurement method to determine how much fork oil to add.  If you thoroughly drain all the old fork oil and use a graduated cyclinder to carefully measure the volume of new fork oil to add, you do not need to remove the springs, and thus do not need that tool.  I did, however, need to use the wrench from my OEM toolkit to turn the lock nut below the cap on the right fork, because all my regular wrenches were too thick.

[Gryphon Rider]

Baloo,
I don't see any advantage of leaving the fork tubes on the bike.  It makes everything easier to have them out on your workbench.  No crouching, no looking upside down, easy draining.

[F6Dave]

A few years ago Chet posted a great procedure for replacing the fork seal without the special tool or spring removal.  I've done it both ways, full disassembly by the book with the special tool (4 hours), and Chet's way (less than 2 hours).  I've sent a PDF of Chet's method to many Valkers, so let me know if you want it (I've got to search for it so it may take a day or so).

Both times I've removed the fork (no big deal), but next time I may try it with the fork on the bike.  It sounds a bit messy, but the procedure is so simple (remove cap, dust seal, and clip, then pull it apart) that I'm tempted.

BTW, I had a slight leak on the way home from Tucumcari, but I tried the film trick and it seems to be working!

[Baloo]

Thanks for the offer, Dave!

If you can find the file, I'd love to have it! You can send it to chryva@globetrotter.net

Thanks again!

[SS Twin]

F6Dave; I'd sure appreciate a copy of the fork seal write up.. No problems now; but she is a 97 with 25K miles, so better to "be prepared".  You can email to me at scshap@aol.com.

Thanks!!

[kickstand]

I would like a copy my left seal is leaking now

Thanks      kickstand716@sbcglobal.net

[Misfit]

When you see how nasty the old fluid is you will want to tear them down and clean them up right, or maybe not. Just depends on how much you care about your susspension. Feel guilty yet?

[F6Dave]

I just sent a PDF of the fork seal post to the three guys who requested it.

I should mention that this method still requires the fork oil to be changed.  Even the bushings can be replaced along with the seal.

Overall, the Valk's forks are an excellent design.  Being inverted, the stiffer part is at the top, where it can do the most good, while the lighter part is at the bottom, slightly reducing unsprung weight.  The top mounted seal keeps the oil somewhat cleaner, since it seal doesn't collect as much dirt as with regular 'rightside-up' forks.  This may be why Honda doesn't recommend periodic fork oil changes.  Come to think of it, most shock absorbers are designed this way, and I haven't seen a shock requiring an oil change since I worked on some old British cars .

[SS Twin]

Dave, thanks for the link.  Read it and have it bookmarked.  You "old timers"  are great!

[Valker]

Could you email that write up to me also?
I have work to do....
Valker1@hotmail.com

[redflash]

I've done both forks at 52,000, and if you're going to bother going in there at all, just "wholesale" it, new springs, new slider bushings, oil and dust seals. Make it like new and worry-free for a long time again! The parts are cheap enough. I have the tool for the left fork, where are ya?

[F6Dave]

I just sent you the procedure.

[Baloo]

Redflash,

I'm up in Canada. Thanks for the offer. QueExpress has offered to lend me his too. I'll see if I dig in further or if I just do the seals and bushings.

[olddog1946]

Dave, May I trouble you for a copy of that procedure as well?

rfbdhjr@hotmail.com

[Bone]

The link takes you to a seal change thread last year. 4 You Tube videos posted
answer a lot of questions.


http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php?topic=29760.0

[Hoovey]

You might want to review these u-tube videos on replacing fork seals.It shows forks from a 1800VTX which are identical to the Valks.

VTX 1800 Fork Seals Part 1.wmv	powered by Aeva

Good Luck

[Tailgate Tommy]

Dave, May I get a copy of that procedure as well? Thanks very much.
tkylli@comcast.net

[larswlvs]

Dave,
 May I trouble you for a copy of that procedure also, thanx.
 my2wlvs@aol.com