God

[Robert]

God has never been proved wrong, science has.   

Just my point. Thanks for making it relevant.

Science is flawed and with the help of smarter people then you or I is corrected or adjusted in time.

Belief in god is also flawed, but never corrected. Just look at all the many different "versions" of  a god & belief and of course the extreme factions entire countries follow. If it weren't for religion [with so many highly varying versions] this planet would likely be more peaceful.

Have your faith. All who do. It's your choice. But it doesn't belong [nor do politics] on an MC board. And, if you think it does deserve a right consider a heavily atheist thread topic involving primarily non god believing members. Your not going to want to see that, are you? But it would have to remain because posts such as this one are allowed to remain.

Majority - Minority. It simply doesn't matter. It doesn't belong here and it's acceptance to wit is unacceptable.

There are Religious boards and Political boards available why don't y'all use 'em. Instead of the occasional post like this one whereas the poster is fully aware of what it brings to the table as he clicks the "Post" button.

IMO BigAl has been testing the waters religiously here and his religious posts have been escalating from tepid to warmer. How much further does it go?  He knows very well what he's doing and that's considered godly, or god loving or fearing...that to me is weak.

]
Dont like it dont look

[SANDMAN5]

Belief in god is also flawed, but never corrected. Just look at all the many different "versions" of  a god & belief and of course the extreme factions entire countries follow. If it weren't for religion [with so many highly varying versions] this planet would likely be more peaceful.

How is belief in God flawed? Again I say..."belief in God"( or God in general) and "religion"
are 2 different subjects. Until some people learn that they'll never "get it".

Have your faith. All who do. It's your choice. But it doesn't belong [nor do politics] on an MC board. And, if you think it does deserve a right consider a heavily atheist thread topic involving primarily non god believing members. Your not going to want to see that, are you? But it would have to remain because posts such as this one are allowed to remain.

I almost agree that it don't belong here..but this IS a general board. We can discuss things about
our daily life that may or may not involve Valkyries. I don't recall a "heavily atheist thread" being
pulled..do you?

[bilks]

 

Lots of choice out there....!

 bilks says that he saw too much during his "service" to believe in God.
Somebody's gonna have to explain that.....don't make no sense!!!

Nps, Military, N.Ireland 70's and 80's South Armagh etc -Catholic v Protestant!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA_South_Armagh_Brigade

I wish i had "The Faith" but life goes on - enjoy and live for today!  

[Robert]

Well the big bang theory is going down much to the dismay of all who value the never changing values of science. Morgan Freeman hosts through the Worm Hole and scientists admit the math doesn't hold up. I like science but sometimes its not so exact.

[SANDMAN5]

Quote from: bashfulbob on Today at 07:05:34 AM


 bilks says that he saw too much during his "service" to believe in God.
Somebody's gonna have to explain that.....don't make no sense!!!

Nps, Military, N.Ireland 70's and 80's South Armagh etc -Catholic v Protestant!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA_South_Armagh_Brigade

I wish i had "The Faith" but life goes on - enjoy and live for today!  

That's not an explanation. Just a map of religions and a Wikipedia link.

[big turkey]

Point one.

Does Life make sense as you are living now?

You may ask yourself why Am I Here?

If you are asking these questions, you are not alone.

Man's Purpose on this Earth.

Simple answer that most never get.

Man was made by God to Worship God, not anything else.

Worship means to be with.

He gave the intelliegence to choose what you like, or Love in this case.

Because he loves us.

He could have made a perfect herd of cattle or sheep, but you are not made that way.,

In his image are you created and there is nothing that has given him more trouble in creation

than us.

He still chose to make us though.

And one day we will be back to the way he intended in the beginning.

This world we live in is in no manner what he had in mind for us.

Think about it this way , would you give your son over to suffer and die for another, if you did not

love that other person.

Love is the Key. To all .

Big AL

[Jack]

Sorry, Al.  I refuse to think of mankind as God's ant farm or pet sheep.

[bilks]

 

If you are one who believes that an omnipotent
Creator is defacto - i wish you well!

The topic of this thread is a healthy debate on a subject that involves all mankind, colour ,creed and religion's as to their "life here and beyond"

If there is "life after Death" one must consider the darker side.  

Like, "Why is it considered necessary to nail down the lid of a coffin?"

 

[alph]

Sorry, Al.  I refuse to think of mankind as God's ant farm or pet sheep.

I just pictured god holding a magnifying glass, scorching the worker ants as they carry out the little grains of dirt!!  While the queen ant sits safely and is fed all day.  Yeah, that is kind of like religion isn't it?!?! 

I think I’ll change my moto from “life’s a joke, find humor in all that goes wrong” to “promote world peace, ban religion!”

[hubcapsc]

Well the big bang theory is going down much to the dismay of all who value the never changing values of science. Morgan Freeman hosts through the Worm Hole and scientists admit the math doesn't hold up. I like science but sometimes its not so exact.

God is all about faith. Science is the exact opposite, it is none about faith. When science finds something
that makes the model work better they drop the old like yesterday's fish and move on. The Big Bang Theory
and the theories about the beginning of life (you know, some amino acids and some lighting and some mud
puddles or geothermal goo at the bottom of the ocean or something) strike me as not being nailed down
very solidly yet. Faith in God is constant, unchanging and unyielding...

-Mike

[big turkey]

Yah why do they nail down the Coffin Lid?

That is the best question I have heard in a While.

Well a question like that dserves an answer.

DO NOT WATCH THIS IF YOU ARE NOT WANTING AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION ASKED ABOVE IN

ANOTHER RESPONSE TO GOD. THIS IS FOR THE MATURE VALKYIRE RIDER ONLY.

When funeral goes wrong	powered by Aeva

[SANDMAN5]

Sorry, Al.  I refuse to think of mankind as God's ant farm or pet sheep

That is exactly the opposite of what Al said. He said God did NOT create us to
micromanage our lives. He gave us free will to accept Him or not. Work on your
reading comprehension and then decide for yourself.
 I would really like to continue this thread, but I'm gonna be real busy the next
couple of weeks. May or may not get to answer any replies for a while. Gonna
go ride a little bit right now...just in case I don't get a chance for a week or two.
Ya'll ride safe!!

[big turkey]

Should not have put that warning on the last post.

Now everyone will watch it.

Human Nature is a funny thing.

Big AL

[big turkey]

Bob I think I commented all I will on this post.

Willow please pull the Plug on my post it is becoming a distraction.

Thanks for your patiance and time everyone.

Love all of you and Thanks again.

Big AL

[KW]

Thank you BIG AL for posting this. Interestingly enough this “club” is FAR below the national average on belief. . . . According to the Washington Post, 92 percent Of Americans believe in God or a universal spirit -- including one in five of those who call themselves atheists. More than half of Americans polled pray at least once a day. Your poll is hovering around 60% “Believers.”

The 'anti-Believer' responses was, as expected, full of hatred and resentment and contained all of the old secular humanism garbage from self-inflated pseudo-intellectual wannabes about “forcing beliefs on someone” and “religion starting wars.”  Attacking Christians and Believers is the standard operating practice from those who live their lives in a growing cesspool of morale decay. The TRUTH is; Christians have, and are, being persecuted as never before. They’re being attacked on all fronts, with their beliefs marginalized & mocked in the media and in nearly every area of academia. Yet, in every discussion someone ALWAYS brings up or implies Christians are the ones being narrow-minded. If God hadn’t already foretold it, I wouldn’t have believed it possible in America

If someone is truly intellectually curious, then they should look up the amazing accuracy of Biblical predictions & prophecy.  Start with 2 Timothy, Chapter 3 (KJB)

God bless . . .

[big turkey]

One more thing,, my Brother KW.

You have heard of one percenters as bikers.

I 'll be a Christian even when the % is down to 1%.

We will be 1% ers,,, probably one of these days.

But all that have this hope of Glory, it's 100 % where we are going.

Glory

AIN'T NO ATHIESTS IN A FOX HOLE.

TO ALL YOU GUYS THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT A FOX HOLE IS.

It ryhmes with War.

Look it up.

Big AL

[alph]

Bob I think I commented all I will on this post.

Willow please pull the Plug on my post it is becoming a distraction.

Big AL

pull it your self!  stop responding to your own post, let it die!!  (maybe it'll go to heaven)

GIVE IT UP ALREADY!!!

[98valk]

JESUS THE BIKER

  He was a lot like you and me.  The Government didn't like him.  The church thought he was bizarre.  His friends were few and what friends he did have denied him.  He was persecuted by religious hypocrites.  He associated with people like you and me, not two-face shoe-polished spic and span Pharisees who never practiced what they preached.  He didn't hang out with the elite politicians so he was labeled an outcast.  He did not have friends in high places in society.  He was never invited to dinner by the rich and famous.  Celebrities wanted nothing to do with him.  His followers were of a rough bunch of sinners who were disliked by decent folk. 

  If Jesus appeared today in the flesh he would be here, parked right next to you on his motorcycle telling you that he understands your doubts and weaknesses, that he loves you and wants you to turn from your destructive ways to follow him so you can be a blessing to others.  He would tell you that he died for you to pay the price for your admission to eternal life, if you will only accept this free gift.  He would be seen on his motorcycle at biker rallies telling others what he told you.  Jesus loves bikers because he is one of us.  He knows what rejection is all about, after all you have been rejecting him for years. 

  Jesus is like us.  He's not going to twist your arm to get you to obey him.  He won't muscle you with brilliant speech to entice your fancy.  He will just tell you the way it is.   His message; if you do not believe in him you will perish in the flames of hell for all eternity. Whether you believe in heaven or hell does not make any difference, if you reject Jesus he says you are condemned already and you are still going to hell.  End of argument.  Jesus was more than just a human, he was God's son.  That is what he said and he proved his deity by the fantastic miracles he performed in his day as a witness to the truth.  He is the only person who has ever died and rose from the dead and came back to tell us all about it.  So, he should know what is on the other side of this life.

  Like most bikers, they are riding aimlessly through life.  Riding from one scenic view to the next spending hours on end riding yet heading in the wrong direction.  Jesus is tapping you on the shoulder right now laughing with you as a close friend would.  He's pointing upward.  "This is the way, walk in it and you shall find life.  Follow me."  As Jesus rides away a pack of bikers follow him.  Don't be left behind.  Not this time.  Get on your ride and follow him.  Today is the day of salvation.  Tomorrow may be too late.  Jesus is inviting you right now to join his club.  This club has more benefits than you think.  There are over 800 promises in the Bible and they are yours for the taking, but you have to join the club because these promises are for "members only."  You must repent of your sinful ways, be willing to turn from them to walk in righteousness by accepting Jesus sacrifice on the cross as the full penalty paid for your sins.  If this confuses you, read on.  I will explain it plainly.

  Jail time.  You're busted and you are in jail.  Bail is set high at two million dollars.  You are in serious trouble with the legal system and you are going to hell on earth for a very long time and death row is your destination.  You appear before the judge at your arraignment.  The judge calls out your name.  You rise and explain to the judge in your defense, "I know you are a fair and just judge and a forgiving friend of the people.  I truly am sorry for my transgression of the law and because you are a just and fair judge I expect you will forgive me."  The judge sternly stares into your eyes saying, "Yes, I am a fair and impartial judge and I will sentence you to the maximum time in prison that I can because I am a just judge that realizes that violations of the law must be punished.  To let criminals go free to continue on committing crimes is an injustice to everyone.  My sentence upon you will be severe, mixed with no mercy.  This is righteous justice for all."  You are not very happy with this situation.  You are doomed by the law and the righteous justice of the judge to enforce the law.

  The bailiff hands the judge a document.  He reads it, then looking at you he says, "You are free to go.  Someone paid your bail and took the punishment for your crime.  Go, you have your freedom.  Do not return here again."  You leave looking about the courtroom wondering who took your punishment.  You see a man being shackled with chains and being led away, it is Jesus.  That is what he did for you on the cross.  He took your punishment so you could go free.  Of course, you can reject this free gift and remain a prisoner to sin with the ultimate destruction of your life.  Jesus will not force you to make a decision for him, that choice is yours to make.  So now that Jesus took your punishment by dying for you, he has rose from the dead to reassure you that who he said he was he is.  He is God's son and that's just the way it is. 

 Jesus has bikers in his motorcycle club in each state, province, territory and in every nation worldwide.  It is the biggest motorcycle club in the world.  It is even filled with ex-gang members, reformed mafia hit men, former prostitutes and other criminal types who have found a new life to live.  Jesus' club is not built on religion or on dues paying memberships.  Many do not even wear patches when riding their bikes, but they are out reaching others for him, like this message is reaching you. 

  This club is built with guys like you and me who prefer to follow Jesus of Nazareth to a better way of life.  It is full of people who have been saved from a sinful lifestyle and the pain and suffering this lifestyle will bring upon you.  It is the freedom we have desperately chased all of our lives, riding onward ever seeking this eternal peace and tranquility on our motorcycles. We escape the city traffic and head to the mountains and the wilderness places, but we slip by Jesus.  Yes, you wave to him as he passes by on his motorcycle, but you do not turn around and follow him. 

  He is not asking you to follow him to a church or to join a religion.  He is simply asking you to follow him.  To read what he has to say in the Bible and to believe what he says is truth.  Is that too hard to do?  Of course not.  He is not asking you to become a religious fanatic or to become a pew-warming churchgoer so heavenly minded you will be of no earthly good.  He is not asking you to be like other Christians you may know.  He wants you to be you, just as you are, but he does expect you will follow him and learn from him.  The price of admission is zero.  No monthly dues.  Membership is free.  It is simply a decision to be made.

  Go ahead, take a ride.  Get away from the noise of the city and think hard and long about what we have discussed here.  Don't be wishy-washy.  Make a decision.  Making no decision is making a decision against him.  Ask him to help you.  Like a stranded biker on the side of the road, Jesus will come and bail you out of the trouble you are in.  He has done it for tens of thousands of us bikers and he will do it for you too.  Jesus tells us you must ask and you shall receive and to seek and you will find.  Start your search today.

  Suggested Prayer:  "Lord Jesus of Nazareth, I am not certain of anything and I am confused about all this, but I want to give you a try.  I have tried many things in my life and much of it has gone wrong while some has gone right but I need something more.  I need to know for sure you exist, so I am asking you to come into my life and show me what you want me to do for you.  If you have to perform a miracle to get me to believe in you, so be it.   I have done a lot of bad things in my life, but I am still basically a good person.  However, there is no doubt I have stolen things, told a lie and lusted for unmarried sex in my thoughts at one time or another.  That means I am a sinner for breaking just three of the Ten Commandment's law.  The Bible says that just one sin brings the death penalty, so I am guilty because I have transgressed your law many times.  I do not want to end up in hell for ever.  I need a Savior and I now do accept Jesus of Nazareth to be my Savior from the sins I have committed.  I still do not know what I am doing, but I am trying my best to come to you.  By faith I stand before you this day to help me.  I want to live a lifestyle pleasing to you and I want to know more about your promises, so give me guidance.  I am willing to repent by turning away from the life I have lived to live a new life with you.  I want to join the club." - end of prayer.

  Advice: Remember this.  No matter what happens or where you end up in life, Jesus is there with his hand out for you.  He is knocking at the door of your heart to let him in.  You must never follow anyone else ever again, even if it is a knowledgeable pastor. You must follow only one person, Jesus of Nazareth, the same Jesus found in the Bible's Gospel.  Hear his voice only and you will not be led astray by others going in the wrong direction.  Jesus' Father in heaven shouted loudly with an audible voice regarding Jesus, "This is my beloved son, hear him."  So do just that, hear him.  You can learn much from pastors, books and other Christians, but your ultimate teacher is Jesus, so read what he has to say in the Bible and do what he says to do.  Hear and do.  That is the formula to follow for absolute success.  He is the Savior, Master and Teacher.  Hear him!

http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.biz/jesusbiker.html

[stormrider]

God has never been proved wrong, science has.   

Have your faith. All who do. It's your choice. But it doesn't belong [nor do politics] on an MC board. And, if you think it does deserve a right consider a heavily atheist thread topic involving primarily non god believing members. Your not going to want to see that, are you? But it would have to remain because posts such as this one are allowed to remain.

Majority - Minority. It simply doesn't matter. It doesn't belong here and it's acceptance to wit is unacceptable.

There are Religious boards and Political boards available why don't y'all use 'em. Instead of the occasional post like this one whereas the poster is fully aware of what it brings to the table as he clicks the "Post" button.

DFragon, if this thread doesn't belong here, why ya crying about it? Just curious. Seems inevitable that whether plolitical of religious, there is always someone that will post on that thread with a personal disclaimer that "none of this belongs here!" Oh well, you probably want even look back at this post of yours to see if anyone responds anyway. Just allways mystifies me that there is someone like you telling us what to talk about or not talk about. And BTW, you can check my topics list anytime. A good mixture of all. And as soon as I load the pics you'll see all the homegrown produce we been packing away. And fresh, just picked this morning watermelon from a heighbors field. Now surely we shouldn't post those such topics as well.

[stormrider]

Bob I think I commented all I will on this post.

Willow please pull the Plug on my post it is becoming a distraction.

Big AL

pull it your self!  stop responding to your own post, let it die!!  (maybe it'll go to heaven)

GIVE IT UP ALREADY!!!

But why? Alph, someone like you keeps throwing wood on the fire. Peace, goodnight all. Gonna go ride in the AM. Ya'll keep safe.

[F6AJ]

Who made god?

I could not help to notice that you spelled "god" in lower case......so your answer is Man made "god(s)",but "God" created man.He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords ,the bright morning star,Rock of the ages,Yeshua Ha Mashiach (Jesus The Messiah) Seek him and you will find Him call on Him and he will answer.

[alph]

Bob I think I commented all I will on this post.

Willow please pull the Plug on my post it is becoming a distraction.

Big AL

pull it your self!  stop responding to your own post, let it die!!  (maybe it'll go to heaven)

GIVE IT UP ALREADY!!!

But why? Alph, someone like you keeps throwing wood on the fire. Peace, goodnight all. Gonna go ride in the AM. Ya'll keep safe.

Smart Alexxxx!!  Just trying to have the last word!!!

[Robert]

Benny Hinn sings "Crusade Favorites" (2008)	powered by Aeva

[asfltdncr]

It's good to see that some of our copy/pasters haven't lost their touch.
I am concerned that "Christian-Right" is a threat to personal freedom.
Jabba,
I feel much the same way as you apparently do on this matter.  I too, have never had any experience with visions or voices (I usually don't smoke that much).  At a younger age, I had a minister attempt to force me to "see the light".  It would of been a good time for Jesus to enter my life and heart but nooooooo.
Anyway, I try not to offend and leave the subject alone.  Your religious beliefs are your own and not a pre-requisite for friendship, in fact, the subject shouldn't come up, and when it comes up too often, I move on.
By the way, why can't ya'll (92% of 300 million population) stop this damn oil leak with your prayers?
Some of ya'll aren't T R Y I N G. 
ALL TOGETHER NOW-PRAY.

[Bobbo]

Faith in God is constant, unchanging and unyielding...

-Mike

Unchanging?  How does that explain the thousands of variations of Christianity?  There are even significant variations in the other Abrahamic religions of Judaism and Islam.  Again, with only one truth, which one is it?  Everyone will say “well, mine, of course!”

[Chrisj CMA]

Faith in God is constant, unchanging and unyielding...

-Mike

Unchanging?  How does that explain the thousands of variations of Christianity?  There are even significant variations in the other Abrahamic religions of Judaism and Islam.  Again, with only one truth, which one is it?  Everyone will say “well, mine, of course!”

You are confused Bobbo.....There are many many RELIGIONS that claim to be "christian"  What he was talking about when he said FAITH in Christ is unchanging is true Christianity is not found in a religion.  It is found in a personal relationship with Christ, and that would remain the same no matter the religion.  If a Catholic has a relationship witih Christ by faith its the same as if a Methodist does and so forth.....bottom line there are not "variations" of Christianity.  One GOD (Jesus) one way to become a Christian.  Trust and follow Christ.  Anyone from any religion or no religion can become a Christian, yet no religion in and of itself can MAKE anyone a Christian

[Bobbo]

The 'anti-Believer' responses was, as expected, full of hatred and resentment and contained all of the old secular humanism garbage from self-inflated pseudo-intellectual wannabes about “forcing beliefs on someone” and “religion starting wars.”  Attacking Christians and Believers is the standard operating practice from those who live their lives in a growing cesspool of morale decay. The TRUTH is; Christians have, and are, being persecuted as never before. They’re being attacked on all fronts, with their beliefs marginalized & mocked in the media and in nearly every area of academia. Yet, in every discussion someone ALWAYS brings up or implies Christians are the ones being narrow-minded. If God hadn’t already foretold it, I wouldn’t have believed it possible in America

If someone is truly intellectually curious, then they should look up the amazing accuracy of Biblical predictions & prophecy.  Start with 2 Timothy, Chapter 3 (KJB)

God bless . . .

Christians are only being persecuted when they become boisterous and begin interfering with other people.  From simply saying outrageous things in public to changing or attempting to change laws to suit their beliefs above all others, the Neo-Christians are all about confrontation and conformation.   I will always oppose anyone who attempts to infringe on our freedoms with their dogma.
As far as Biblical accuracy, please review my previous posts about Pi and the circular sea.  The Bible is about as accurate, and uses the same methods, as a fortune teller.  Say a large amount of generalities, and hope you snag someone looking to make a connection to one of them.

[Bobbo]

Faith in God is constant, unchanging and unyielding...

-Mike

Unchanging?  How does that explain the thousands of variations of Christianity?  There are even significant variations in the other Abrahamic religions of Judaism and Islam.  Again, with only one truth, which one is it?  Everyone will say “well, mine, of course!”

You are confused Bobbo.....There are many many RELIGIONS that claim to be "christian"  What he was talking about when he said FAITH in Christ is unchanging is true Christianity is not found in a religion.  It is found in a personal relationship with Christ, and that would remain the same no matter the religion.  If a Catholic has a relationship witih Christ by faith its the same as if a Methodist does and so forth.....bottom line there are not "variations" of Christianity.  One GOD (Jesus) one way to become a Christian.  Trust and follow Christ.  Anyone from any religion or no religion can become a Christian, yet no religion in and of itself can MAKE anyone a Christian

As you reference it, one could also claim that science is unchanging, as the core principal of the scientific principal is still the same.  The point of the original post was to show that science changes, but faith in God doesn’t.

[Chrisj CMA]

"The point of the original post was to show that science changes, but faith in God doesn’t."

EXACTLY RIGHT 

[Bobbo]

"The point of the original post was to show that science changes, but faith in God doesn’t."

EXACTLY RIGHT 

But, as you explained it, science doesn't change.  Can you clarify?

[Chrisj CMA]

"The point of the original post was to show that science changes, but faith in God doesn’t."

EXACTLY RIGHT  

But, as you explained it, science doesn't change.  Can you clarify?
[/quote

I dont think I said anyting about science.  I believe science to be an ever evolving journey for the truth.  Where Faith in a GOD (one true GOD) that is the same yesterday today and forever is comparibly unchanging.  What is different from region to region country to country is RELIGION....religion is man made and religion like science evolves....religion has little to do with true faith in Christ.  Christianity is not a religion

[Tonysax]

As a rule I do not discuss abortion, religion, or politics. But I must say, I have read alot of passion on this thread. It is nice to know people actually have an opinion.....Alph I'm sorry about your child, I think I would feel the same way if I lost one of my 3 boys.

AL you can really get people to react

Tonysax

[Robert]

If you dont believe in God then you are really here arguing out of your own selfish desire to see someone come to your point. Since there is no God then what Christians believe is really of no relevance. There will be no more crusades, and Christians for the most part are harmless yes they may want to restrict to many things that are fun but even those who dont believe want to do that and besides those can always be gotten around. Since all they do is pray and there is no God then these prayers go nowhere and with the present government in office things are looking pretty good. You as non Christians have nothing to offer, for life for solace or pain of life and want to see others adopt this view. Life is a bitch then you die that's it.or life's life then you die so in all your points here are for self interest and out of malice promoting your own personal agenda. Christians on the other hand argue out of benefit for our fellow man, think they have a solution but you know Christians are deluded. But why would you argue with a person that's not all there? Especially when all they want to do is save the world with some unknown God and they go around doing good things in the name of this God? Yea they have done damage in the past but with society in the position its in with equality and womens rights and kids rights coming out more and more this isn't going to happen. Plus with all the changes have you seen the porn on the web the teen pregnancies and look at how liberal even the supreme court has become, thank the unknown. The Christians are self interested too but instead of their own personal interest they try to force their religion on us for the good of man kind not for their own personal gain but to bring mankind up, How stupid, no one person can do that so Christians must be deluded and as long as they dont impact my own personal world then that's OK. In fact sometimes what they believe in does work out for our good as they want to see justice for all and care about people and since they are supposed to adhere to a higher standard they have to watch our backs maybe we can get that to work for us too. Besides they do help the poor since their God does tell them to do that and so they do help us not to have to legislate the problem and government doesn't have to take so much out of my pocket, stupid Christians at least their good for something. But now since there are less Christians especially in government they are starting to not have to listen to a collective good and those dam politicians are really starting to grab for the money I wonder how we can stop this since politicians dont really have a concisenes. In fact the new motto peace believe what you want seems to be working be good to your fellow man when you can other wise you have no responsibility to him is OK.The next is since people who dont believe or believe in another god although good people have really limited solutions to offer with help for my personal problems. They dont really have any more resources to deal with problems than I do and some have less. Not to mention any help usually comes with strings attached.So since you really believe there is no God then you are indeed arguing out of malice. so what if I believe there is a God and in a happy place and want to see the world smile. Maybe your god is a cup of coffee I dont stop you from that I only try to show you what I found personally works for me and allot of other people and I feel I do have something to offer so it is done out of caring. If you want to take me out of my happy world and have nothing good to replace it with then you are the hater or so by your own ideas. Arguing back and forth in these type of pointless malicious posts is a waste. Except for the few that have a sincere interest in finding out if there are fellow Christians and see what they believe. But on the whole there are the agitators and hecklers that will never change and do it just to promote a pointless point or worse to take away the current help to deal with the problems that arise in life. A dry and parched breeze in time of trouble a cloud with no rain.  Copy and paste is great the word of God is still relevant able to speak for itself cant be argued against and since if yo dont believe maybe will see that there is something good in the Bible and start to read. Theres no reason to respond to the hecklers with anything but the Word.

[Jabba]

Robert, I hope I fall in the group that you appreciate and don't see me as a hater or malicious.

Personally, I think Aethism is as much a religion as ANY.  The hyper-sensitive non-believers that get offended by the mere mention of God or Jesus. 

Get OVER it.  I am not in the religious camp, but nor does their existence scare me.  In fact, I appreciate the order it brings to society.

Personally, I think the WHOLE world needs a HUGE dose of Libertarianism.  As welll does the gene pool need a HUGE dose of chlorine.

Jabba

[Robert]

Jabba no I dont but you as with all atheists have nothing to offer in the way of consolation in times of trouble. No hope when your butt is on the line like maybe life and death issues or really bad financial things. No hope even if someone around you has emotional problems that go beyond what a physc can help with. No hope to be led to a solution to a situation that may arise no peace in times of trouble. No moral compass except your own and no standard to say whats good or bad except each persons own view. As Christians we do and so much more even when the time of dying comes you say we go nowhere, but I have hope to see my mother again and some of my relatives. The ones that argued so strongly for not believing there is a God want me to adopt a point of view that has no hope and I just cant see it. When I have hope for all these things why should I surrender that for no hope? To me that is malicious, I have been in a place where there is no hope and thank the God that I know exists for taking me out of that. Even in my business without hope I would go nuts. So Ill send you good thoughts, and warm feelings so you and all the others that argue against God can have peace and joy. If you think that I am putting any one down I'm not I know you are all good guys have done numerous good things maybe even make the world a better place and that speaks allot about character. But as for hope beyond yourselves you have nothing other than the worldly ways which you may not want to hear but Ill pray for you and all that are in the same way.   I almost forgot heres a website to ask for forgiveness in case you have wronged anyone
http://mashable.com/2010/06/25/forgiveness-engine/

[Jabba]

I am NOT an aethesist.  I believe in some sort of God.  I am just not convinced that the Christian way is the ONLY way.  And I freely admit that I do not KNOW the truth, and won't till I pass. 

I believe there IS life after death.  I believe in ghosts.  I believe in Aliens.  I believe in evolution, but none of these things exclude God.  I believe I will be judged someday. 

So please don't lump me in as an aethesist.  Agnostic maybe. 

I also think my moral compass is a lot better than a lot of churchy people I know.  Not pointing ANY fingers at ANYONE.  I do what's right because it's RIGHT.  I believe that God put that moral compass in me, along with my parents.  My mother was a devout Catholic, and was afraid to even go into a non-catholic church.  It's THAT type of exclusionary rhetoric that turns me off. 

Jabba   

[Robert]

Jabba I hear you and thought as much what you said only confirmed it but I ask you this wouldn't you like to know that you know God? That maybe it would be possible and maybe it may open up a new world that you thought you may never have been able to achieve? I tell you it is possible it is awesome and just as He spends time with me He will spend time with you. All you have to do is ask Him, tell Him you want to get to know Him and this Jesus that everyone talks about. Then just wait and listen it may be a knowing in your heart or the Holy Spirit may talk to you he comes like a thought from deep inside that you wouldn't normally have and you know its not you. Hes gentle and you may even get a peace and joy that maybe you've never had. I believe He wants a closer relationship with you and has been drawing you and you've been kind of hesitant to find out who He is but don't hesitate. He beckons you to come and dine with Him see if He is good and the rewarder of those that seek Him. Remember knock and I will answer seek and you will find. Now you have the key try it and see if it fits you wont be disappointed. If you have always wanted to know the secrets of the universe then ask Him and He will reveal things to you that will amaze you. God says ask also for wisdom and He will give it liberally to all who ask. Enjoy!!!!

[bilks]

 

Seems to me to be of an exclusive club? (Bit like the Masons?)

You have to call him? which is fine..(or be recommended)

Ok, a young child that dosen't speak the lanquage, any lanquage, are they excluded?

People who are incarcerated for mental problems, are they excluded?

People of another faith, are they excluded?

Non belivers are excluded..... do i need to go and bang my head on the Holy Wall then to be heard?

 

[Robert]

Bilks I dont know if your so concerned why dont you find out and let us know.

[bilks]

 

Sorry, to be honest, I have more belief in Disney charactors than some Alien being...! (at least theres a Disney Land on Earth!)..

If something requires faith, and faith only, but cost you money each time you enter the Hollowed place, dosent one wish that they got value for money?

A good example is the "Ark of the Covenent" in Ethopia.. in  Axum.

Lets see it!

But going back to my original post - page 2 i think, God is not man-made - therefore Alien to this world.
Now, Emaculate Conception - Mary, concieved a child by artificial conception, easly done now 2000 years later.

The miricales that Jesus performed - again with help from an inteligent source, easy stuff! (Penn and Teller would have fun with the locals in their time-machine!)

The account of Jesus ascending bodily into the clouds, on the Mount of Olives, after his resurection, dosent that remind you of Close encounters of the Third kind?

lets consider the Eygptions 3000 years earlier - their facination of the heavens one could go on and on...

I, as previously stated have no quam with belivers as its a very personnel thing, but as free thinker im able to query everything and anything, and question like a child wishing to be knowlegable!

I am after all, only human!