Unconstitutional?

[Walküre]

our poor people are already rich.  compared to the world.

There WILL be poor people.  If you raise the level of the poor, then inflation then raises the costs of everything, thus making the poor poor again, and making the middle and upper classes LESS rich.  


Jabba

Another misconception....refer to the killer economy years, between 1948 and 1970. BOOMING, BUD, BOOMING!! And the middle class and lower class incomes increased by something like 25 - 30 percent. Come the 70's and 80s, zilch improvement to the middle and lower class, the upper class increased upwards of 300%! That's a direct result of the "tax cuts". No, tax cuts for the rich deprive the middle class. The middle class of today, is lower than the middle class of 1965...

Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts...

[Jabba]

Another misconception....refer to the killer economy years, between 1948 and 1970. BOOMING, BUD, BOOMING!! And the middle class and lower class incomes increased by something like 25 - 30 percent. Come the 70's and 80s, zilch improvement to the middle and lower class, the upper class increased upwards of 300%! That's a direct result of the "tax cuts". No, tax cuts for the rich deprive the middle class. The middle class of today, is lower than the middle class of 1965...

Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts...

That's exactly my point.  Then... we had poor people.  Now... we're redistributing the wealth, from the middle class to the poor people is such a way, that it draggs the middle class down. 

Every poor or middle class person has the opportunity to be rich.  In this country... everyone does, with few exceptions.  The world is an unfair place. 

Like I siad... I don't mind helping out.  But not to the tune of 50%+. 

How about the FairTax?  What do you think abou that?  Are you well read about it?  I am interested in your opinion. 

Jabba

[big turkey]

Maxine Waters on the Oil Industry	powered by Aeva

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Mexican Drug Cartels in Claifornia, forget Arizona, is your Neighborhood next.

Mexican cartels running pot farms in U.S. national forest 1	powered by Aeva

Our Government on the Federal Level Sucks.

Political Correctness will get us killed, is all it will accomplish.

Be nice to the muslims, NASA has that covered.

Be nice to the Mexicans, tell it to the 22,700 the Drug Cartels have killed, including the Farmer, The

 Deputy, and more than you shake a stick at if you are here illegally.

My God the Mexican Cartels are growing dope all the way up in California.

Be nice to the Muslims they are our friends , tell that to the Soldiers Families of the wounded and the Dead at Ft. Hood.

Now where is my PC Manual, I am all out of kilter.

Teh Progressives in this country are about changing our country in a way that will ruin the country and your childrens future.

I am a old fart , well OK 50 but i can fend for myself and the ones I love, but what about those that can't?

Take that Buck Wheat

Big Al

[TheSpadMan]

Jabba,

The Fair Tax is a GREAT Idea, but we will never get the profesional Politicians to go for it.........  :uglystupid2:WHY, Because they would loose WAY TOO MUCH POWER.

I have read both books GREAT IDEA ,,,,,, No chance tho.

[Jabba]

Jabba,

The Fair Tax is a GREAT Idea, but we will never get the profesional Politicians to go for it.........  :uglystupid2:WHY, Because they would loose WAY TOO MUCH POWER.

I have read both books GREAT IDEA ,,,,,, No chance tho.

That's what the Revolutionaries said in 1775 too.

Just because the ruling class doesn't like it doesn't mean we should allow them to ignore us.

Let's start firing them till they do it.

We can make a difference.  Run for office.  ANY office.  Join your county political party of choice.  I am on the board of my counties Libertarian party.  Do something.

Saying to yourself... "Self, you can't change nuthin'" is EXACTLY what they WANT.

Jabba

[big turkey]

The more I hear about the Libertarian Party the more I like them.

John Stossel onTV is one of those fellows and I like the things he is saying.

May change my affiliation to that party in the near future.

Big AL

[Walküre]

That's exactly my point.  Then... we had poor people.  Now... we're redistributing the wealth, from the middle class to the poor people is such a way, that it draggs the middle class down. 

Every poor or middle class person has the opportunity to be rich.  In this country... everyone does, with few exceptions.  The world is an unfair place. 

Nothing could be further from the truth!! The wealth has NOT gone from the middle class to the lower class! It has gone UP, to the upper class!! The middle class has declined, AS WELL AS THE LOWER CLASS!! The lower class, in 1960, could still afford a family, with a single income - heck, we did it!! Now? Can't be done!! The middle class is disappearing, as a direct result of both the UPPER class AND lower class. But, the greater percentage of wealth has gone to the wealthy. But 400%!!!

Here's a few links, that explain it:

http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2006/06poverty_booza.aspx

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0622-04.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/21/AR2006062101735.html

And the Dems take all the money from the rich?? Think again...

http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Data_on_Upper-Class_Wages_by_President

And a little more on the bailouts:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-garibaldi-frick/upper-class-pillaging_b_135892.html

Like I siad... I don't mind helping out.  But not to the tune of 50%+.

 

Not that it matter, but I would LOVE to pay 100 million in taxes, if that would mean I made 200 million. My wife and I both make fairly decent money, not obscene, but enough to be "comfortable", in that our needs are met, and we can afford college for our daughter (and a Valk for me!!). I would NOT mind paying a bit more, but when I see corporations that make BILLIONS, and use off-shore games, to pay almost zero taxes, THAT pisses me off!! THOSE are the wealthy, that so many people want to "protect"...what a laugh!!

How about the FairTax?  What do you think abou that?  Are you well read about it?  I am interested in your opinion. 

Jabba

Haven't had any opportunity, to look at it. I will, though. I don't know how it relates to the "flat tax" of years back, that has been proposed, but I recall the numbers were amazing, that a much smaller "flat tax" than I currently pay, across the board, on EVERY PENNY, EVERYONE made, how quickly it would get us out of the hole we were in back then. Don't know how it relates today - I've long given up on any tax issues, since all the Pubs want is lower taxes, and the Dems want higher taxes. I don't think they'll change much, no matter what. But, I will read up on it...

R

[Jabba]

Corporations don't PAY taxes.  They pass them on.  The ONLY people that PAY taxes are those of us that CAN'T pass it on to others.  Let's skip all the GAMES and tax the money PEOPLE spend.  

That's the FairTax.  You eliminate ALL other means of taxation, AND EVERY loophole.  Period.

Quoting articles from the Washington Post and the Huffington times, is like one of us using Rush Limbaugh or Fox News as a reference.  You don't want us doing that do you?  

The people you speak of as Lower class were the middle class.  If they could afford a home and a family... that's MIDDLE class.  The poor people THEN were homeless, and lived 20 to a hovel.  scratched a living out of the dirt.  Today, they have Iphones, cars, free health care, and their biggest worry is obesity, and cable vs satellite to entertain them while they sit on their arse living off the labor of you and me.

My feeling is that it's fundamentally WRONG to limit someone's income.  Or to punish them for their success by taking more and more of it, as they become more and more successful.  

Jabba

[G-Man]

Not saying what the corporations are doing is right, but just remember, corporations, companies, stores, businesses, etc. don't pay taxes.  The consumer pays ALL of the taxes.  Increased taxes on business will only increase the price of their goods and services.  

[G-Man]

A fine is a tax for doing bad.   A tax is fine for doing well.   

[fudgie]

The more I hear about the Libertarian Party the more I like them.

John Stossel onTV is one of those fellows and I like the things he is saying.

May change my affiliation to that party in the near future.

Big AL

+1    I am never a fan of voting for a party. I vote for the person.

[big turkey]

Yes raising a Family can be done on one income of Let's say 25,000. In Tennessee.

Modest House 500 a month.

No Cell Phones.

Dish TV basic package.

Insulate the home and do it right.

Buy a ten year old used car and shop wisely.

Camp don't go to the beach.

Fish for extra food.

No credit cards they are a trap.

Yard sales and Good will clothes wear just fine.

Spit Fire Wood instead of paying to work out.

Sell fire wood.

My Dad did it when we were kids and we would help him and then we leaned important lessons,

no life is not easy and everything is not free.

Oh Yeah and he went to college and graduated in 1968 all while having to do said work above.

Mom did not work either.

Big Al

[big turkey]

Libertarian Party Platform
A Quick and Easy Guide to America's Leading Third Party
By Tom Head, About.com Guide
.See More About:libertarian party2008 elections
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Like most political platforms, the Libertarian Party platform is turgid, vague, and abstract. It also tends to be a little bit utopian in its approach, which can make it difficult to ascertain where the Party stands on specific issues facing the country right now.

This is not a specific criticism of the Libertarian Party, mind you; the Democratic and Republican party platforms are much, much more turgid (to the point where they can't be read in one sitting), much more vague (to the point where they often sound as if they're advocating the same policies), and much more abstract (relying on Mom-and-apple-pie patriotic rhetoric instead of concrete policy proposals). But the difference is that the Democratic and Republican parties have enough money to pay people to run campaigns that give us an idea of what the parties stand for.

The Libertarian Party doesn't have that much money, so I'm proud to present the world's shortest platform summary of the party that brought you the World's Shortest Political Quiz.

Fiscal Policy: Very right-libertarian. The Libertarian Party opposes taxation in pretty much all forms, and deals with the revenue loss by opposing entitlement programs in pretty much all forms. This means that people keep more of what they earn, but it also means that there is no social safety net. And ambitious new proposals--such as universal pre-kindergarten and universal health care--are obviously not compatible with this objective.

Corporations: Eliminate all federal subsidies to private corporations, as well as all antitrust laws.

Public Services: Eliminate the Postal Service. Transfer all government services, from public schools to landfills, to private ownership.

Property Rights: Would restrict public domain to immediate public use, and sell or give away most public property to private owners.

Criminal Justice: Would eliminate all antidrug laws and legalize prostitution. Would end random police roadblocks.

Free Speech: Would abolish the FCC and allow private ownership of broadcast frequencies. Opposes all restriction of free speech, including free speech restricted in the name of national security.

Church and State: Calls for reduced IRS regulation and monitoring of tax-exempt churches.

Second Amendment: Strongly opposes all gun control, as well as regulation of alternative weapon technologies (mace, Tasers, and so forth).

The Draft: Calls for the abolition of the Selective Service System and amnesty for any citizen who has ever resisted the draft.

Reproductive Rights: Pro-choice, but opposes all federal funding of abortion and most federal entitlements for women who choose to carry their pregnancies to term, including the child tax credit. Opposes involuntary or fraudulent sterilization.

LGBT Rights: Opposes "don't ask, don't tell." Believes that marriage is a private contract, and should yield no government benefits regardless of the gender of the partners.

Immigrants' Rights: Argues that borders should be open but surveilled--everyone who does not pose a threat to public health or national security should be allowed to enter the country legally. Would eliminate all federal benefits to undocumented immigrants. Related Articles
•Criticism of the Libertarian Party Platform -

[elraque]

"Poor people aren't poor just because rich people are rich... "

"Rich people don't cause poor people."

"The best way to become rich is by creating wealth. You create wealth by creating something of value (product or service) and selling it to someone who wants it enough to pay you for it. Getting rich in this way does not create poor people."

[Jabba]

Concerning Libertarians... keep in mind that few, big two party members toe the line on all platform issues, the same is true of the Libertarians.  Especially in Texas and Indiana, which are the most active Libertarian states.  We diverge from the National platform at many places.

The ONE thing I want to emphasize here is that our major issues is not legalizing pot.  We're about shrinking government.  We've got many pro-life people.  We've got people, like me, who dissent from the Libertarian platform of isolationism.  The very fundamental Libertarian tenent that force should NEVER be used to attain political goals, doesn't fit for me.  Last resort?  Yeah.  Never... no.  Occasionally, you have to punch a guy in the mouth.  It's unfortunate... but true.  And it's also true on a national basis.  When you have countries acting like 2 year olds... sometimes you have to smack them to get their attention.  Time outs (sanctions) don't work.

Jabba