Harley leaving Milwaukee

[elraque]

Marketing is evil.

Under the best of circumstances it is a necessary evil. Usually it is just evil.

HD marketing is masterful...

[1fastbob]

Maybe they will move to Mexico and build the "Taco Glide" and the "Beanster".

[Doc Moose]

Maybe they will move to Mexico and build the "Taco Glide" and the "Beanster".

LOL    Now that's phunny!

[MP]

Charlie:

At the time, Harley's were only a few thousand higher, not twice.  Also, as we all here admit, they are not the same bike.  Say what you want, but Harleys are in more demand than Valkyries.

This would be an equal item.  Say, a light bulb.  If you walk into a store, and Brand X, Made in USA, is $1.00 per bulb, and the same bulb, But Brand Y, made overseas, is selling for $0.60, I guarantee you 95% of the people will buy the 60 cent bulb. That is the way it is.

MP

[MP]

Ruthless Rider:

Go look at the fair tax web site. It is NOT about repealing all taxes, not at all.  Basically, what it does, is remove almost all exemptions, then taxes everything at a lower rate.  It is NOT getting rid of taxes.  It raises the SAME amount of tax as now.

MP

[woefman]

It seems like Harley has been making some good decision lately and finding success/possible success. Their Sportster line is as popular as ever and they are considering building a plant in India. Moving out of Milwaukee, and especially the US, seems like a very bad idea. The article hit it on the head: it's the high cost of a Harley that is killing their sales in this sluggish economy. Unless HD can drop their prices dramatically through cheaper labor, there's no way they would sell enough bikes to make up for the customers they'd lose by leaving the US.

I think all of this is a scare intended to push the city, state, and union to do as HD wishes.

How about a lower Price CEO , that be a good start , unfortunately Fat Cats Hate to Lose their Money
Heck they Earned it right ??

[Jabba]

Jabba

Passing taxes on is probably just what they do, but when you get all the taxes repealed, what kind of  a suspension system do you think we will need to smooth out those pot holes? And when that accident happens, how long do you think you will have to wait for that ambulance. And if you think your kids schools aren't what they should be now, what do you think they will be like when there are no taxes to support them?

Guys, I am NOT talking out of my ass here.  Going to the FairTax will not reduce our level of taxation in ANY way.  The plan calls for a dollar for dollar replacement of our current tax levy.  It just gets there a different route.  It will get the imbedded taxes out of production, make us more competetive globally, and more importantly make government expenditure a lot more transparent.  It's an end use tax.  Essentially a sales tax, but it eliminates ALL other taxes.  and loopholes.  PERIOD! 

Seriously... take a few minutes and read about it.  It's a facinating concept, and one that would, IMO, help our nation massively.  The lawmakers don't want it... because it'll expose them.  But that's what we need to do if we're going to survive.  It's our legislators that are killing the country.  And it's our apathy that allowing it.

www.fairtax.org

Jabba 

[9Ball]

And, last but certainly not least, while I enjoy the daylights out of riding my Interstate during the season, there is no such thing as too much snow.

We all know what opinions are like...you're free to enjoy all that snow....

I added over 2 months to my yearly riding season and don't regret it at all...

[Jabba]

It seems like Harley has been making some good decision lately and finding success/possible success. Their Sportster line is as popular as ever and they are considering building a plant in India. Moving out of Milwaukee, and especially the US, seems like a very bad idea. The article hit it on the head: it's the high cost of a Harley that is killing their sales in this sluggish economy. Unless HD can drop their prices dramatically through cheaper labor, there's no way they would sell enough bikes to make up for the customers they'd lose by leaving the US.

I think all of this is a scare intended to push the city, state, and union to do as HD wishes.

When you pay a CEO less, you get a less talented CEO.  Heck, you or I would probably be GLAD to be their CEO for say $500K.  I'd even ride a cursed ol HD while I was working there.  But we do not have the skills or experience to do the job.  The people who DO are being fought over.  Just like professional athletes.  Most of us think THEIR salaries are obscene too.  But, they are in demand, and command a competetive hiring atmosphere.

That happens to me a lot.  People try to hire me away from my current employer.  2-3 times per year usually.  I always listen.  No one has come up with the right package to get it done yet.  I doubt they ever will.  

If you want top tier talent, the cost for it grows exponentially.  

All that said... do I think they are WORTH that much?  No... but who am I to limit another guys income?

Jabba

[Jeff K]

It seems like Harley has been making some good decision lately and finding success/possible success. Their Sportster line is as popular as ever and they are considering building a plant in India. Moving out of Milwaukee, and especially the US, seems like a very bad idea. The article hit it on the head: it's the high cost of a Harley that is killing their sales in this sluggish economy. Unless HD can drop their prices dramatically through cheaper labor, there's no way they would sell enough bikes to make up for the customers they'd lose by leaving the US.

I think all of this is a scare intended to push the city, state, and union to do as HD wishes.

When you pay a CEO less, you get a less talented CEO.  Heck, you or I would probably be GLAD to be their CEO for say $500K.  I'd even ride a cursed ol HD while I was working there.  But we do not have the skills or experience to do the job.  The people who DO are being fought over.  Just like professional athletes.  Most of us think THEIR salaries are obscene too.  But, they are in demand, and command a competetive hiring atmosphere.

That happens to me a lot.  People try to hire me away from my current employer.  2-3 times per year usually.  I always listen.  No one has come up with the right package to get it done yet.  I doubt they ever will.  

If you want top tier talent, the cost for it grows exponentially.  

All that said... do I think they are WORTH that much?  No... but who am I to limit another guys income?

Jabba

How about a lower Price CEO , that be a good start , unfortunately Fat Cats Hate to Lose their Money
Heck they Earned it right ??

+1
It blows me away that a guy that throws a ball can make 10s of millions and everyone is fine with that, but if a guy runs a successful company and makes millions he is stealing it from the workers??
What a crock of $hit.

[Full_Throttle]

It seems like Harley has been making some good decision lately and finding success/possible success. Their Sportster line is as popular as ever and they are considering building a plant in India. Moving out of Milwaukee, and especially the US, seems like a very bad idea. The article hit it on the head: it's the high cost of a Harley that is killing their sales in this sluggish economy. Unless HD can drop their prices dramatically through cheaper labor, there's no way they would sell enough bikes to make up for the customers they'd lose by leaving the US.

I think all of this is a scare intended to push the city, state, and union to do as HD wishes.

When you pay a CEO less, you get a less talented CEO.  Heck, you or I would probably be GLAD to be their CEO for say $500K.  I'd even ride a cursed ol HD while I was working there.  But we do not have the skills or experience to do the job.  The people who DO are being fought over.  Just like professional athletes.  Most of us think THEIR salaries are obscene too.  But, they are in demand, and command a competetive hiring atmosphere.

That happens to me a lot.  People try to hire me away from my current employer.  2-3 times per year usually.  I always listen.  No one has come up with the right package to get it done yet.  I doubt they ever will.  

If you want top tier talent, the cost for it grows exponentially.  

All that said... do I think they are WORTH that much?  No... but who am I to limit another guys income?

Jabba

How about a lower Price CEO , that be a good start , unfortunately Fat Cats Hate to Lose their Money
Heck they Earned it right ??

+1
It blows me away that a guy that throws a ball can make 10s of millions and everyone is fine with that, but if a guy runs a successful company and makes millions he is stealing it from the workers??
What a crock of $hit.

+2
Everyone loves to complain about how much the CEO makes or the athlete.  When was the last time YOU turned down a pay raise?? Hmmmmmmm?  Every job has a price  from the burger flipper to the CEO of Bigshot corp..... who are we to say what is fair?  If I were offered a CEO's salary I would take it, and so would everyone else.  Big government is the real problem here.  Go figure up how much your employer pays the government on your behalf....1/2 social security, ect. this is YOUR money that you never see because the government takes it first.....I better shut up now before I start ranting

+ 1 for the fair tax.....it is a GREAT concept that will never happen

[Jeff K]

I work for a family owned company. They all have real nice homes, one in Florida and one in Chicago. The senior family members all have fancy cars and real nice boats/yachts. Well, since the family is getting larger, and the two plants in Chicago can't support that type of lifestyle for ALL of them... the opened two more plants, one in Georgia, and one in Florida.
I don't care how much money they make as long as I get treated fairly. And they do treat me fairly.
And when I make enough money for them I'll put another line in here and hire another 3 shift of people to run it, all the while making the family a bunch of money.
What is wrong with that? Do you think the family would take that risk for the chance of meager returns? I wouldn't.

[Jabba]

There will ALWAYS be poor people.  In the US, our poor people are RICH by global standards, but it NEVER seems to be enough. 

The theory that a rising tide floats ALL boats doesn't hold water for me. (Pun intended) When you raise the poor up, the value of things goes down, their buying power remains static, and the middle class and the rich LOSE.

Rich people employ poor people.  This is America.  You want to be rich?  Get off your ass, get out there, bust your butt, and you can be rich too.  Most of us (like me) are just not willing to do what it TAKES to be rich.  The rich (mostly) earn their money.  They didn't find it laying around.

Jabba

[elraque]

 The rich (mostly) earn their money.  They didn't find it laying around.

Jabba

Except for those like Carolyn Kennedy, who inherited it and has literally done NOTHING to earn it.

Or people like John Kerry, who married it (twice) and has done literally NOTHING to earn it.

Or people like Charlie Rangel... 

By and large I agree that it is up to us to earn our own wealth, and that MOST wealthy people have earned and deserve what they have. But there are plenty of noteable and disgusting exceptions like those I mentioned above.

(I really do agree with you about LOTS of stuff!) 

[Jabba]

Sure, there are those that get their wealth thru luck, or theu family inheritance...  I think those people represent a large portion of the rich liberals, because they think that the rich conservatives got their money thru the same lack of effort. 

I have been involved in acting and so forth... it's ain't that tough.  Hollyweirds, IMO, feel guilty for having all that money, so are willing to share it thru the forced redistribution of wealth via government.  After all, if THEY are willing to share theirs... shouldn't EVERYONE?

Exceptions to every rule.  YMMV blah blah blah.

Jabba

[ETC]

No way will HD ever move outside the US. I see this as just a ploy to get concessions from the government and unions. The stereotypical "biker" did not accept the liquid cooled Porsche designed Vrod as it is non-traditional Harley so they would probably go nuts, riot and rob liquor stores if HD ever moved outside the US. It would be the end of HD in my opinion.
While a good part o the HD motorcycle is actually made of foreign parts the average HD owner is oblivious to that fact and pushes it aside. Keep in mind nobody buys a Harley because it's good or strong or anything we expect from regular motor vehicles. There is one reason and one reason only to buy a Harley and that is the fashion statement which is comprised of the poser Bad boy imagery and the tired and abused made in America dreaming.
While most of us realize we live in a global market and the only way to be competitive is to do what all the companies do - put products out on bids. HD is no different they will have foreign manufactures build and design for them but keep the ownership and assembly as American. They can get away with having 90-99% of the bikes build outside of the US but dare not move the assembly plant as that would be mutiny on a grand scale.

Just think if they move to Mexico they would have to fire their engineer!

[woefman]

It seems like Harley has been making some good decision lately and finding success/possible success. Their Sportster line is as popular as ever and they are considering building a plant in India. Moving out of Milwaukee, and especially the US, seems like a very bad idea. The article hit it on the head: it's the high cost of a Harley that is killing their sales in this sluggish economy. Unless HD can drop their prices dramatically through cheaper labor, there's no way they would sell enough bikes to make up for the customers they'd lose by leaving the US.

I think all of this is a scare intended to push the city, state, and union to do as HD wishes.

When you pay a CEO less, you get a less talented CEO.  Heck, you or I would probably be GLAD to be their CEO for say $500K.  I'd even ride a cursed ol HD while I was working there.  But we do not have the skills or experience to do the job.  The people who DO are being fought over.  Just like professional athletes.  Most of us think THEIR salaries are obscene too.  But, they are in demand, and command a competetive hiring atmosphere.

That happens to me a lot.  People try to hire me away from my current employer.  2-3 times per year usually.  I always listen.  No one has come up with the right package to get it done yet.  I doubt they ever will.  

If you want top tier talent, the cost for it grows exponentially.  

All that said... do I think they are WORTH that much?  No... but who am I to limit another guys income?

Jabba

Points Well Taken ....I was "Just Saying"   lol as the New Kids Lingo Phrase Goes

[alph]

Rich people employ poor people.  This is America.  You want to be rich?  Get off your ass, get out there, bust your butt, and you can be rich too.  Most of us (like me) are just not willing to do what it TAKES to be rich.  The rich (mostly) earn their money.  They didn't find it laying around.

Jabba

I know that my reply has nothing to do with the main subject of harley leaving Milwaukee, but I have to reply to jabba’s comment.

The easiest way to become wealthy is to not be stupid with your money.  Ask yourself, do I really need to go to the casino, or to buy that lottery ticket.  Your chances of becoming a millionaire by buying a lottery ticket is something like 1 in a 10,000,000 while the chances of becoming a millionaire by graduating medical school is probably 1 in 100 (ok just saying so you statisticians can just relax). 

I’m not a millionaire, but everything I own is paid for, and the people that I do know that are millionaires didn’t get that way by being stupid with their money. 

It’s not what you make, it’s how you spend it.

[elraque]

It seems like Harley has been making some good decision lately and finding success/possible success. Their Sportster line is as popular as ever and they are considering building a plant in India. Moving out of Milwaukee, and especially the US, seems like a very bad idea. The article hit it on the head: it's the high cost of a Harley that is killing their sales in this sluggish economy. Unless HD can drop their prices dramatically through cheaper labor, there's no way they would sell enough bikes to make up for the customers they'd lose by leaving the US.

I think all of this is a scare intended to push the city, state, and union to do as HD wishes.

When you pay a CEO less, you get a less talented CEO.  Heck, you or I would probably be GLAD to be their CEO for say $500K.  I'd even ride a cursed ol HD while I was working there.  But we do not have the skills or experience to do the job.  The people who DO are being fought over.  Just like professional athletes.  Most of us think THEIR salaries are obscene too.  But, they are in demand, and command a competetive hiring atmosphere.

That happens to me a lot.  People try to hire me away from my current employer.  2-3 times per year usually.  I always listen.  No one has come up with the right package to get it done yet.  I doubt they ever will.  

If you want top tier talent, the cost for it grows exponentially.  

All that said... do I think they are WORTH that much?  No... but who am I to limit another guys income?

Jabba

Yeah, when you pay a CEO more you get a better CEO. Like the highly paid and correspondingly high quality CEO of Home Depot, whose management philosophy was to lay off the more experienced workers because they were paid more than those with less seniority. When his hare-brained scheme didn't work he got a golden parachute and an even better gig (at Chrysler, I think).

Or like the highly paid and correspondingly high quality CEO's of MCI/WorldCOM and Enron... Ya'll know about them, dontcha? They earned THEIR salaries and their severance packages!

Or the highly paid and correspondingly high quality CEO's of HP (two of them in succession), one of whom hired private investigators to spy on and determine the source of HP internal leaks, and the latest one who resigned under the cloud of a sexual harassment scandal.

Yup, when you pay the big bucks for a CEO you can count on getting a QUALITY CEO... (oh, yeah, I remember now, "exceptions to every rule..." Yadda, Yadda -- or was that "Jabba, Jabba...")

[Jabba]

Does paying a lot guarantee you quality?  Nope.  But paying a little guarantees you mediocrity.

Shareholders can and SHOULD get involved in that.  More importantly, consumers can, and SHOULD get involved in that.  Don't invest in, nor shop at companies that are not handled like you want them to be.  Trouble is... people are too apathetic, and want everyone else to do THEIR job. 

It's OUR job to police our government.  We have done a terrible job of it, and now we got what we've got.  It's time to clean house.

Jabba

[elraque]

Agreed, it's time to clean house. It's time to find some "men and women of honor, and of good character" to "protect and preserve the Constitution of the United States of America."

Any idea where we might find some of those? I've been looking...

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Agreed, it's time to clean house. It's time to find some "men and women of honor, and of good character" to "protect and preserve the Constitution of the United States of America."

Any idea where we might find some of those? I've been looking...

Good luck with that no matter what side of the fence you are on  . 

[Jabba]

Thing is... to SERVE honorably and honestly, doesn't pay enough to lure people of talent, integrity and good work ethic.  Those people can make so much more privately. 

So... we get the cheats, the lazy, and the scheisters in office "looking out for us".

I am telling ya'll.  The FairTax would expose them and the tax system for what it is.  And people would get pissed enough to do something about it.  That's exactly WHY they won't DO it.  We need to spread the word, and start getting mad about it.  Till they have no other choice.

Sure... you can say... "It'll NEVER happen".  But Americans in 1774 said exactly the same thing.

Jabba

[elraque]

Some folks may have said "It'll never happen..."

They need to open their eyes. It is happening all around us. Every day.

You're right, Jabba. We need to use our votes to make it stop. And all the other methods expressed and implied in both the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.

It will start and end with "We, the People..."