Non-Ethanol enriched Gasoline

[Ricky-D]

I am amazed at how the gas stations here in SC are posting on their outside signs "non-ethanol gas". I am saying this because there seem to be more and more gas station now doing that! This includes branded gasoline stations such as Exxon and Shell as well as mom and pop gas stations like the one up on the corner.

The main reason I am reporting this is because of a very nice discovery that has become evident in the past month.

My motor has stopped doing all that little annoying popping and gurgling at low throttle settings and idling. It has all disappeared.

And I know the reason.  It was because of the gasoline I had been buying from the gas station up at the end of the street.  It was non-ethanol enriched premium gasoline and I liked it!  Turns out it was a crummy gasoline. I was content with the way the motor ran but I knew it wasn't running as good as it could be.

I discovered another gas station about a mile away, that I never considered buying gas from, had a sign up that they have non-ethanol premium gasoline. I started using that particular gasoline about a month ago. I now contemplate staying with that gas station from here on in. Their premium is about 8 cents a gallon more but that isn't in the equation at all.

Now a lot of my previous running concerns I know was caused by water in the gasoline that I was purchasing. I know this because after a few miles of running and gurgling I could drain a little bottom gas out of each carburetor and the bike would amazingly run better (quieter) for a day or two. I know there have been comments about that, such as that would not be a problem if I ran ethanol enriched gasoline, but my motor does not like that "new-age" gasoline and gets less mpg's when it is in my tank. I simply don't like ethanol enriched gasoline and the bike does not run as well on that gasoline!

Anyways, I just wanted to point out that all my insignificant motor/exhaust peculiarities have disappeared with the non-ethanol gasoline from a different gas station and suggest to you who may be experiencing the same aggravating popping and gurgling, try a different gasoline from a different gas station.

It has worked wonderfully for me!

***

[Pete]

We have a few non-ethanol stations around here also.
I prefer non-ethanol if available.

BUT  -- We have caught a couple of stations posting non-ethanol BUT selling ethanol.
Needless to say after being found out we avoid those stations.

Just FYI

[BrettB]

Out of all the gas stations we have in this area, only one has gasoline without ethanol.  I try to get all my fuel there, especially for the Valk.  It just runs better on non-ethanol fuel, and so does all the mowing equipment I own, especially the two cycle stuff.  The station owner (Shell) says he must special order the fuel as everything else here in Illinois (Corn Country you know!) has ethanol.

If I do have to run fuel with ethanol in anything, I add a little Star-tron to it........seems to help if moisture is present.

[Tropic traveler]

HMMMM.... I haven't seen any non 10% around these parts in a while. I haven't been looking though. I'm sure if any station starts selling it again they will advertise it AND of course jack up the price!
All our Valks seem to be running OK on the 10% so I will NOT pay any more for non 10%. 

[Pete]

Little different in price around here, especially since the non-ethanol gives better mileage.

[Michvalk]

Marathon and Moble sell non-ethanol around these parts. I use a mid-grade Marathon for my Interstate w/4degree wheel. Runs better and quieter, and better gas milage. Actually as much as 5 MPG better than 10% ethanol regular. Runs about .10 cents a gallon more, but worth it.

[Jabba]

They say E-85 should get 75% of the mileage of E-0.  That plays out in Lori's Suburban.  It runs OK... and we'd use it if it was cheaper by the mile... but they price it so it's not.  They price it at 75% of the e-0 or e-10.

Doing the math... E-0 SHOULD get about 2.5% better mileage than E-10.  But as in EVERYTHING YMMV.

The E-10 SHOULD absorb the water in the fuel though.  That's all gas line dryer is, is ethanol.  Since the water won't mix with gasoline, it WILL mix with the alcohol... and should get processed harmlessly.  That's the THEORY. 

Jabba

[Airetime]

Out of all the gas stations we have in this area, only one has gasoline without ethanol.  I try to get all my fuel there, especially for the Valk.  It just runs better on non-ethanol fuel, and so does all the mowing equipment I own, especially the two cycle stuff.  The station owner (Shell) says he must special order the fuel as everything else here in Illinois (Corn Country you know!) has ethanol.

If I do have to run fuel with ethanol in anything, I add a little Star-tron to it........seems to help if moisture is present.

It is becoming more important than ever to know what you are running in your vehicles. Most stations that have Ethanol post a sticker that states it MAY contain up to 10% Ethanol but it can have more or less, so testing is almost Required nowdays.

Wall Street Journal had a great editorial on Ethanol REVIEW & OUTLOOK on MARCH 16, 2009. Industry pushing for 10% blends nation wide!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123716798764436701.html

"Everyone Hates Ethanol

These days, it's routine for businesses to fail, get rescued by the government, and then continue to fail. But ethanol, which survives only because of its iron lung of subsidies and mandates, is a special case. Naturally, the industry is demanding even more government life support.

Corn ethanol producers -- led by Wesley Clark, the retired general turned chairman of a new biofuels lobbying outfit called Growth Energy -- want the Obama Administration to make their guaranteed market even larger. Recall that the 2007 energy bill requires refiners to mix 36 billion gallons into the gasoline supply by 2022. The quotas, which ratchet up each year, are arbitrary, but evidently no one in Congress wondered what might happen if the economy didn't cooperate.

Now the recession is hammering demand for gas. The Energy Information Administration notes that U.S. consumption fell nearly 7% in 2008 and expects another 2.2% drop this year. That comes as great news for President Obama, who is achieving his carbon-reduction goals even without a new carbon tax, but the irony is that the ethanol industry is part of the wider collateral damage.

Americans are unlikely to use enough gas next year to absorb the 13 billion gallons of ethanol that Congress mandated, because current regulations limit the ethanol content in each gallon of gas at 10%. The industry is asking that this cap be lifted to 15% or even 20%. That way, more ethanol can be mixed with less gas, and producers won't end up with a glut that the government does not require anyone to buy.

The ethanol boosters aren't troubled that only a fraction of the 240 million cars and trucks on the road today can run with ethanol blends higher than 10%. It can damage engines and corrode automotive pipes, as well as impair some safety features, especially in older vehicles. It can also overwhelm pollution control systems like catalytic converters. The malfunctions multiply in other products that use gas, such as boats, snowmobiles, lawnmowers, chainsaws, etc.

That possible policy train wreck is uniting almost every other Washington lobby -- and talk about strange bedfellows. The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, the Motorcycle Industry Council and the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute, among others, are opposed, since raising the blend limit will ruin their products. The left-leaning American Lung Association and the Union of Concerned Scientists are opposed too, since it will increase auto emissions. The Natural Resources Defense Council and the Sierra Club agree, on top of growing scientific evidence that corn ethanol provides little or no net reduction in CO2 over the gasoline it displaces.

The biggest losers in this scheme are U.S. oil refiners. Liability for any problems arising from ethanol blending rests with them, because Congress refused to grant legal immunity for selling a product that complies with the mandates that it ordered. The refiners are also set to pay stiff fines for not fulfilling Congress's mandates for second-generation cellulosic ethanol. But the cellulosic ethanol makers themselves already concede that they won't be able to churn out enough of the stuff -- 100 million gallons next year, 250 million gallons in 2011 -- to meet the targets that Congress wrote two years ago.

So successful but politically unpopular businesses will be punished for not buying a product that does not exist -- from companies that haven't yet found a way to succeed despite generous political and taxpayer advantages. The next step is to use cap and trade to make green alternatives look artificially good by comparison. Even then they'll probably still be bottomless money pits.

To recap: Congress and the ethanol lobby argue that if some outcome would be politically nice, it should be mandated (details to follow). Then a new round of market interventions is necessary to fix the economic harm resulting from the previous requirements, while creating more damage in the process. Ethanol is one of the most shameless energy rackets going, in a field with no shortage of competitors."

So in a nutshell a year and  and a half from the time this article was written I found it neccessary to carry a fuel tester with me here in Washington state. I like to know what percentage of the fuel that I am using contains this corn crap. Made by Daansen and you can find them online for as low as $5.00. Pilots have used them for years, wonder why?! Hhhmmm.  

[Red Diamond]

1) You must not be riding very far it you buy your gas at the same station all the time.
2) In Texas, 10% Ethonal everywhere I've noticed.
3) 31% of the oil produced in the world is refined on the Gulf Coast of Texas.
4) Where do you think your gas comes from?

[Steve K (IA)]

Both my Valks use nothing but 10% ethanol.  On a few occasions, they got a squirt of straight gas and there was no difference in how they run.  I am certain that my bikes couldn't start, idle or run any smoother than they already do and I will always search out the ethanol.   The bikes?.........'97 Std & 2000 I/S and the carbs have never been off either bike.  Oh....and I get 40 mpg when I ride at the speed limit.
Maybe it is because of the high quality corn we have here

[Pete]

I cannot tell much difference in how it runs day to day cruising except for the increase mileage for pure gas.
Have not done a max power test, but would suspect since the gasahol has less btu's by volume that it produces less horse power by volume.

[Jabba]

  Oh....and I get 40 mpg when I ride at the speed limit.

I'd get 100 MPG if I was rolling downhill with the engine off too.

How in the WORLD would you ever run the speed limit for a whole tank of gas on a Valk?

For me... there ain't NO way.  I get 35 when I am mostly well behaved, which is sort of rare.  I average 27-30.

Jabba

[NCGhostrider]

My experience with gas /ethanol mix is not so good.  My valk doesn't run as well, and the mileage suffers greatly.  I am forced to run premium at all times to try to get away from the effects (I run a trigger wheel).  This season alone, I have lost a weedeater, that has had the carb stop up with the crap ethanol disturbed, gas line detioration etc.  The local small engine shops are reporting more gas related problems with ethanol based gas in smaller carbs. 

I carry additive with me now at all times to help counter the effects of the grain based fuel.

[Valkahuna]

Ethanol is a joke! 

It's just another way to subsidize certain corn producing states in the country. All things considered (the energy requrided to plant, fertizlize, and harvest) ethanol is actually energy negative. Factor in lower mileage, lower performance, increased problems, it's just not worth it.

Allowing automobile manufacturers to use Flex fuel, or E85 capabilities in order to increase their CAFE is a travesty. 

[Davemn]

I have 4 cars, 2 motorcycles, 1 garden tractor, 1 snowmobile, 1 boat, 1 chainsaw and a snowblower. I have been running ethanol (10%) in these engines for many years. Never had even 1 problem due to corn gas. I do use straight gas for any engine that is stored for more than 2 months due to seperation. Your results may vary.

[fudgie]

I ran E-10 this year and lost 2 mpg. This of coarse was 2-up, fully loaded, 75-85 mph, 3500-4000 rpms. Love the stuff.  Mine runs better, imho.

[MP]

Been running E-10 here on the farm in EVERYTHING for about 20 years.  NEVER a problem.

MP

[Farther]

I first started using the blend in the late '70 to early '80's when in my home state of South Dakota.  I have never had any fuel related problems.

[Red Diamond]

I first started using the blend in the late '70 to early '80's when in my home state of South Dakota.  I have never had any fuel related problems.

Been running E-10 here on the farm in EVERYTHING for about 20 years.  NEVER a problem.

MP

I ran E-10 this year and lost 2 mpg. This of coarse was 2-up, fully loaded, 75-85 mph, 3500-4000 rpms. Love the stuff.  Mine runs better, imho.

I have 4 cars, 2 motorcycles, 1 garden tractor, 1 snowmobile, 1 boat, 1 chainsaw and a snowblower. I have been running ethanol (10%) in these engines for many years. Never had even 1 problem due to corn gas. I do use straight gas for any engine that is stored for more than 2 months due to seperation. Your results may vary.

Everybody needs something to complain about, Ethonal, The Prez, Taxes, you name it. I've never had a problems, as the above quotes state. Happy Riding.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I am amazed at how the gas stations here in SC are posting on their outside signs "non-ethanol gas". I am saying this because there seem to be more and more gas station now doing that! This includes branded gasoline stations such as Exxon and Shell as well as mom and pop gas stations like the one up on the corner.

The main reason I am reporting this is because of a very nice discovery that has become evident in the past month.

My motor has stopped doing all that little annoying popping and gurgling at low throttle settings and idling. It has all disappeared.

And I know the reason.  It was because of the gasoline I had been buying from the gas station up at the end of the street.  It was non-ethanol enriched premium gasoline and I liked it!  Turns out it was a crummy gasoline. I was content with the way the motor ran but I knew it wasn't running as good as it could be.

I discovered another gas station about a mile away, that I never considered buying gas from, had a sign up that they have non-ethanol premium gasoline. I started using that particular gasoline about a month ago. I now contemplate staying with that gas station from here on in. Their premium is about 8 cents a gallon more but that isn't in the equation at all.

Now a lot of my previous running concerns I know was caused by water in the gasoline that I was purchasing. I know this because after a few miles of running and gurgling I could drain a little bottom gas out of each carburetor and the bike would amazingly run better (quieter) for a day or two. I know there have been comments about that, such as that would not be a problem if I ran ethanol enriched gasoline, but my motor does not like that "new-age" gasoline and gets less mpg's when it is in my tank. I simply don't like ethanol enriched gasoline and the bike does not run as well on that gasoline!

Anyways, I just wanted to point out that all my insignificant motor/exhaust peculiarities have disappeared with the non-ethanol gasoline from a different gas station and suggest to you who may be experiencing the same aggravating popping and gurgling, try a different gasoline from a different gas station.

It has worked wonderfully for me!

***

No wonder your left bearing is a " Forever " bearing you never leave home.

[fudgie]

I am amazed at how the gas stations here in SC are posting on their outside signs "non-ethanol gas". I am saying this because there seem to be more and more gas station now doing that! This includes branded gasoline stations such as Exxon and Shell as well as mom and pop gas stations like the one up on the corner.

The main reason I am reporting this is because of a very nice discovery that has become evident in the past month.

My motor has stopped doing all that little annoying popping and gurgling at low throttle settings and idling. It has all disappeared.

And I know the reason.  It was because of the gasoline I had been buying from the gas station up at the end of the street.  It was non-ethanol enriched premium gasoline and I liked it!  Turns out it was a crummy gasoline. I was content with the way the motor ran but I knew it wasn't running as good as it could be.

I discovered another gas station about a mile away, that I never considered buying gas from, had a sign up that they have non-ethanol premium gasoline. I started using that particular gasoline about a month ago. I now contemplate staying with that gas station from here on in. Their premium is about 8 cents a gallon more but that isn't in the equation at all.

Now a lot of my previous running concerns I know was caused by water in the gasoline that I was purchasing. I know this because after a few miles of running and gurgling I could drain a little bottom gas out of each carburetor and the bike would amazingly run better (quieter) for a day or two. I know there have been comments about that, such as that would not be a problem if I ran ethanol enriched gasoline, but my motor does not like that "new-age" gasoline and gets less mpg's when it is in my tank. I simply don't like ethanol enriched gasoline and the bike does not run as well on that gasoline!

Anyways, I just wanted to point out that all my insignificant motor/exhaust peculiarities have disappeared with the non-ethanol gasoline from a different gas station and suggest to you who may be experiencing the same aggravating popping and gurgling, try a different gasoline from a different gas station.

It has worked wonderfully for me!

***

No wonder your left bearing is a " Forever " bearing you never leave home.

ROTFLMAO!     

[alph]

you're lucky!!  i'm not a fan of "E" anything.  problem is, i have only found one station here in eau claire that sells ethanol free fuel, and it's across town!! 

[Airetime]

I first started using the blend in the late '70 to early '80's when in my home state of South Dakota.  I have never had any fuel related problems.

Been running E-10 here on the farm in EVERYTHING for about 20 years.  NEVER a problem.

MP

I ran E-10 this year and lost 2 mpg. This of coarse was 2-up, fully loaded, 75-85 mph, 3500-4000 rpms. Love the stuff.   Mine runs better, imho.

I have 4 cars, 2 motorcycles, 1 garden tractor, 1 snowmobile, 1 boat, 1 chainsaw and a snowblower. I have been running ethanol (10%) in these engines for many years. Never had even 1 problem due to corn gas. I do use straight gas for any engine that is stored for more than 2 months due to seperation. Your results may vary.

Everybody needs something to complain about, Ethonal, The Prez, Taxes, you name it. I've never had a problems, as the above quotes state. Happy Riding.

No, not everyone needs something to complain about! Ethanol is corn extract and just because it has the 10% label on the pump does NOT mean that it is 10%. It says that it “may” contain “UP” to 10%, so if you are fortunate enough to have 2-5% ethanol, your vehicles may indeed run fine, but even with 2 – 5 % ethanol your mileage will still be slightly less and the fuel will not store as well as pure Fossil Fuel. This is a fact, not just my opinion.  

Now as far as the Prez?   Wow got a day? Taxes? Don’t get me started! You forgot to mention Congress and out-of-control spending…..

[Valkahuna]

I first started using the blend in the late '70 to early '80's when in my home state of South Dakota.  I have never had any fuel related problems.

Been running E-10 here on the farm in EVERYTHING for about 20 years.  NEVER a problem.

MP

I ran E-10 this year and lost 2 mpg. This of coarse was 2-up, fully loaded, 75-85 mph, 3500-4000 rpms. Love the stuff.   Mine runs better, imho.

I have 4 cars, 2 motorcycles, 1 garden tractor, 1 snowmobile, 1 boat, 1 chainsaw and a snowblower. I have been running ethanol (10%) in these engines for many years. Never had even 1 problem due to corn gas. I do use straight gas for any engine that is stored for more than 2 months due to seperation. Your results may vary.

Everybody needs something to complain about, Ethonal, The Prez, Taxes, you name it. I've never had a problems, as the above quotes state. Happy Riding.

No, not everyone needs something to complain about! Ethanol is corn extract and just because it has the 10% label on the pump does NOT mean that it is 10%. It says that it “may” contain “UP” to 10%, so if you are fortunate enough to have 2-5% ethanol, your vehicles may indeed run fine, but even with 2 – 5 % ethanol your mileage will still be slightly less and the fuel will not store as well as pure Fossil Fuel. This is a fact, not just my opinion.  

Now as far as the Prez?   Wow got a day? Taxes? Don’t get me started! You forgot to mention Congress and out-of-control spending…..

Airetime,

+1 on all counts! 

[bogator]

  WE use to drink the corn down here in ALABAMA,but it to has problems------alkoholism---witch I have or should say--had a problem with. to much corn -----now I cannot touch any of the stuff---so I burn it in my scoot--HAPPY TRAILS ALL----

[Quicksilver]

One of the products I haul is pure denatured Ethanol. When I'm loading it at the refinery truck loads of corn are being brought in. It's a gigantic legal moonshine operation. The thing that struck me was the smell, the whole place smells like cheap tequila. If you get the stuff on you it removes the oil and water from your skin, in a real hurry. Your skin will turn white, it’s nasty stuff. When transport Canada was conducting tests on pure ethanol in some vehicles, I installed a couple of above ground tanks for them. I needed to use special hoses for the pumps as well as pumps designed for the ethanol. Apparently the ethanol is considered very dry in the engine and removes oil as well as attacking rubber in the hoses. So if your vehicle is designed to use ethanol in the fuel then no-problem. If not then consider what it’s doing to your engine.
In my area of Ontario and Quebec I know that Ultramar premium does not contain Ethanol. I deliver fuel to the stations from the terminals and am certain of this. There is 10% ethanol in all the regular gas though. I find that my bike runs more smoothly and seems to have more power when I do not use ethanol enriched gas. My bike is a 1997  so I pay a bit more and use their premium. I would think that the ethanol would absorb any water if that is a concern. I think you may have two separate issues there, one is water in the gas and the other is ethanol. Your first station may well have water in the gas, it can happen for a number of reasons, leaking tank or bad drainage around fills and failure to take water from the fill boxes.

[fast black]

My bike runs better on non ethanol treated gas.  1998 standard. around 80,000 miles