Rear running light question..........

[Slammer]

OK, I've been screwing with Valks for around 10 years and just had this thought!!!!!!! Is it possible to put the internals from the front running light blinker into the rear housing???? They look like they lock in the same way and it would just involve wiring the running lights in. I know buying the front housings from honda would be expensive but pinwall or some place similar should be cheap. I'm sure someone has tried this before but thought I would throw this out.

Slammer

[ricoman]

Yes it is possible.
I put double filament sockets in my old Valk so I could have red running lights and red signals. To get red lenses I painted the inside of clear ones with Testor"s Transparent Candy Apple from a hobby shop.
Took the 2 prong socket bottom (has a small spring to keep the bottom tght against the bulb contacts) from front signals and wired them in. Got the hot for the running light portion off the license plate light.
The problem is that the socket which accepts the prongs on the bulb(s) can't be changed as it is part of the housing on the older light assemblies. On the newer ones it is a seperate piece. Most double filament bulbs have offset pins that go in the socket slots, the older rear have slots that are even as the bulb pins are directly opposite each other and not offset. So, you have to find a double filament bulb with equal spaced pins-got mine at Autozone or the like.
Take your time and you'll do it.

[CajunRider]

I though about doing this before, but never got around to installing all that's needed.  

Basic problem, orange running lights in the back is illegal (at least in some places).  They should be red in the back.  So, while it could be easily done with a touch of epoxy and some wiring, doing it CORRECTLY would take a bit more, like what Ricoman did.

(He posted JUST before I did... so some of this was edited for fit.) 

[Slammer]

I gonna go pull the headlight and remove the guts from 1 of the fronts and just see if it will lock in the rear housing.

[Slammer]

inside assy. out not just the bulb holder

[Willow]

Check into Electrical Connection.  Their kit (LEDs) is $49.95 and gives your red rear running lights as well as additional brake lights.

Electrical Connection Turn Signal Conversion Kit

[shortleg]

  Just get a set of fronts and use them in the rear.
          Shortleg[Dave]

[vanagon40]

. . . The problem is that the socket which accepts the prongs on the bulb(s) can't be changed as it is part of the housing on the older light assemblies. . . .

I'm not sure what ricoman is trying to say.  I have a 2001 Standard. I purchased a set of front turn signals from Pinwall for my rear signal lights.  I’m not sure of the year, but the Pinwall advertisement stated they were “fairing mount” turn signals.  The parts were not directly interchangeable.  I had to remove and exchange the bulb holders from the chrome housings.  However, the bulb holders were easily interchangeable, and used standard turn/tail light bulbs with offset prongs.  The mechanical changes were very simple and straight forward.  I purchased a pair of red lenses to avoid the amber running light problem.

I made things more complicated with the wiring change.  I really liked the concept of the running light turning OFF when the turn signal was activated (only the running light on the turn signal side turns off).  So instead of using the license plate light for running lights, I ran two separate wires from the front running lights to the rear (actually a little more complicated than that, but you get the idea).  I also used the front running lights to trigger some relays and using four relays and two diodes, I have brake, turn signal, running lights on my original rear turn signals.  The homemade circuit board is redneck nightmare, but it works.

[RonW]

from a 2007 Shadow 600 front signals. I know .... it doesn't look like a bulb socket, per se, and yes, it's the same generic part used on a Valk. It's two parts. A socket plate and a plastic disc. All you need for the rear signals is the dual contact disc (wires too), and done. However, I'm not 100 percent sure whether a rear socket plate will accommodate the alignment knobs on a 1157 dual filament bulb. You could try fitting a 1157 bulb into the rear socket, and if it doesn't fit then instead use the socket plate from a front signal. The socket plate clips into a groove that's molded on the tip of the rubber stem that protrudes into the light shell.

[X Ring]

I replaced the front signals and mirrors on Sandman with Kury mirrors with led turn signals.  I took the front signal housings and switched the sockets and wires so the wire colors would match up then installed them on the rear.  As I already had led signals up front, I installed led bulbs in the rear.  Additionally, leds don't heat up so there are no heat issues like there would be incandescent bulbs.  To solve the fast flashing problem, I replaced the stock turn signal flasher with one for leds from Custom Dynamics.

Marty

[MNBill]

Did it and it works, I used Red Kury lenses. A thought though, I have my bike wired for a 4 prong trailer under the right cover. I wired the trailer adaptor blinkers to the blinker wires on the rear. Now I have three brake lights (or two and a blinker) for extra lighting.

[ricoman]

to clarify my earlier reply:
on 97-98-99 Valks (not IS) the rear turn signals have 2 screw lenses.
Inside the light assembly is a chrome plastic reflector which the lens screws go into and to which is attached a metal socket with a single contact disc (single filament) with 2 wires from it. The left has: green and orange, the right has green and blue. The orange and blue are hot for the turn signal, the green is ground. To use a double filament bulb you need to replace the single contact disc with a double contact one and get a source of power for the second contact. I sourced the 2nd hot from the license plate light.
The stock chrome assembly uses a single filament bulb and has slots for securing the bulb which are of equal depth in the socket as the bulb pins are equal, not like the offset pins of dual filament bulbs which would have one slot deeper in the socket for that bulb.
The stock chrome reflector/bulb socket cannot be changed out to the later model metal socket (they look like those in RONW's pics) as the later model reflectors are different and seperate from the bulb socket. Sooo, you need to install a dual contact disc in your stock reflector/socket and get a dual filament bulb with equally spaced pins.
OR, as noted by Shortleg, just get a set of front signals and put the insides in the rears.
Had I known that I would not have had the hassle I did to convert.

Or, get a SignalMinder fron KissenTech, install it (plug and play) paint lenses red and you will have run/turn and four-way flashers for about 110 bucks.

[RonW]

If you tap the front signal's low filament wire to power the rear 1157 bulb's running light, this is about the same schematic that most people will arrive at. Wired this way, the brake input will be disabled to the rear signal that is flashing. Also, the low filament will be OFF in the same bulb for the duration that the high-filament flashes, mimicking the front turn signal. There are already brake/run/turn electronic modules that do this, and they even retain the stock 1156 single filament bulb in the rear. I believe the units emulate the lower brightness of a running light by sending less amps to the 1156 bulb for running light mode. So I've thought that perhaps it's possible to leave the 1156 bulb in place and solder a resistor in-line which would lower the rear bulb's brightness for running mode (inset diagram). The only real need for a 1157 dual filament bulb is for its low-filament, the high filament is already there in a 1156. Note: with front turn signals, when the low filament is ON, the high-filament is OFF in the same bulb, and vis-a-versa. The opposite on/off states allow the brake input in the rear signal lights to be synchronized using relays so it doesn't interfere with the signals flashing.

[Slammer]

now I have my next project!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slammer

[G-Man]

Shortleg said it all!  Just order a set of front turn signals and mount them in the rear.  Using Red LED 1157 bulbs solves the problem of color.

[Bobbo]

I believe the units emulate the lower brightness of a running light by sending less amps to the 1156 bulb for running light mode. So I've thought that perhaps it's possible to leave the 1156 bulb in place and solder a resistor in-line which would lower the rear bulb's brightness for running mode (inset diagram).

An 1156 bulb has a resistance of about 6 ohms, and draws about 2.1 amps.  To cut the current in half, you would need a 6 ohm resistor rated at 10 watts to give some overhead to the 6+ watts the resistor would dissipate.  The resistor would get quite hot, so it needs to be mounted where it can get some airflow, or to a heatsink.

A better method would be to use a power transistor to run the bulb at 50% duty cycle.  That way you wouldn't be dumping the excess power as heat.

[Crazy Miles]

Slammer, this is what I did 10 years ago. Just get a used set of Front turn-running lights. Cheap enough at Pinwall or other places.  take your stock back ones off and replace them with the fronts. IT WORKS. Also did it on my son's Magna.  IF, your worried about yellow running lights on rear, just put a switch somewhere so as to turn them on or off. I've NEVER had a problem in any of the New England states or NY! This  should help!     http://rattlebars.com/mtz/signals.html

[rhinor61]

Hello, I was reading the post. For red lens just get the Clear Alternative lens and spray about 3 coats of red translucent paint inside them (hobby shop)

Why gut a front turn signal, just put the front housing and all in the rear, with your rear lenses?

The relay and resistor very nice drawing...

I done the conversation to both of my hondas... works great... more viability.. is a good thing.

John

[RonW]

....on 97-98-99 Valks (not IS) the rear turn signals have 2 screw lenses....The stock chrome reflector/bulb socket cannot be changed out to the later model metal socket as the later model reflectors are different and seperate from the bulb socket.

[RonW]

An 1156 bulb has a resistance of about 6 ohms, and draws about 2.1 amps.  To cut the current in half, you would need a 6 ohm resistor rated at 10 watts to give some overhead to the 6+ watts the resistor would dissipate. The resistor would get quite hot, so it needs to be mounted where it can get some airflow, or to a heatsink. A better method would be to use a power transistor to run the bulb at 50% duty cycle.  That way you wouldn't be dumping the excess power as heat.

For the reasons you noted, the Signal Dynamics® et al. run/turn/brake units probably do have power transistors integrated in their modules. I'll be remiss not to mention that any electronic hobbyist with a soldering iron could rig a circuit board for a run/turn/brake unit with one hand tied behind his back. There's not too much to these things with the proper equipment. The obvious advantage of store bought run/turn/brake units is that it spares all the hassle and untold hours spent piecing things together. I've installed a run/turn/brake unit on another bike of mines. The biggest disadvantage and it may be only with me, is that you have to cut 2 particular wires in two (pic below). It's bad enough having to cut apart the pristine wire sheathing in order to reach those wires, much less preform surgery. On the other hand, the plus side is that the modules allow you to retain the rear 1156 bulb without further modification to the rear signals' circuits since all the necessary transistors (switches) are embedded in the same package. The Signal Dynamic® module in the bottom pic is shown about actual size.

[RonW]

Why gut a front turn signal, just put the front housing and all in the rear, with your rear lenses?

Absolutely. It just so happens that the front and rear signals are interchangeable with each other on Valks. How many times does that happen in the same century. For 2000 and up, you do have to install the signals kitty corner, since 2000 and up have a screw on the bottom of the light shell and a left-to-left or right-to-right swap would place the screw on the top of the light shell since a FRONT signal installed on the same side REAR would have to be installed upside down in order to face it in the opposite 180 degree direction. You'll see. There's a little cross-up with the wire color code too. For example, ORANGE (honda left) wire will be on the right side of the bike done this way.

Btw, a reason why you might gut a front signal is that most other Honda cruisers, after or before '98, use the same generic light bulb sockets in their turn signals. In that sense, you're not limited to Valks for this particular part.

[ricoman]

....on 97-98-99 Valks (not IS) the rear turn signals have 2 screw lenses....The stock chrome reflector/bulb socket cannot be changed out to the later model metal socket as the later model reflectors are different and seperate from the bulb socket.

great pic, makes my point more understandable (even to me)
where did you get it?

[RonW]

great pic, makes my point more understandable (even to me)
where did you get it?

the diagrams from OEM websites with the pertinent parts cropped. The photos were taken earlier, last year, forgot already, though occasionally people have a tendency to believe that I took the elevator down 20 flights exclusively to take a pic of my bike in the parking basement so I could reply to their post. I've gave up on trying to write out what a pic could describe more clearly, mainly to avoid the, whoops, we're not even on the same page. Very informative of you to mention the two screws on the front lens of 97-99 Valks.

[MarkT]

If you install standard 1157 bulbs in the rear with the supporting mods needed, and have luggage, the pods don't get enough cooling air and the inside plastic supports melt and the guts drop out.  At least in the summer & daytime.  I melted two pairs of rear pods this way.  Then I installed a night switch so the running lights were only on during the cooler nights.

I have since changed the pods to clear lens ones for the VTX, and installed LED panel "bulbs".  I think they have 24 LEDs ea.  Mine are set up as run, brake and turn using relays and the front marker light circuits to control the relays - whether they select brake or signal circuit directed to the bright filiments.  BTW this can be done with single-filiment bulbs with the circuit I designed, using the optional diodes and resistors.  See my writeup on my tech pages at http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/VTX_signals/vtx_signals.html  

I've been running this circuit for full-function rear lights for about 8 years now and it has been dead reliable.  Though I've improved it a couple times by changing the pods and going to LED's.  The circuit costs only $10 for the relays, maybe the same for wire, diodes and resistors, and takes an afternoon to install.  A little more if you bother to go to 1157 sockets - which isn't necessary but I did it before I realized the circuit could be designed for single filiment bulbs.  Going to VTX pods is quite expensive, and they are single filiment - but have clear lenses and a more streamlined profile, if you want to change the look.

Here's what the circuit looks like:

[Garland]

Mark, did you make up your led panels, or buy them? If so, where?

[MarkT]

Bought them from autozone, according to my tech tips page on the mod.  You can find a lot of choices online.  The main thing is get them with a diameter that will fit inside the pod, and deep enough to reach to the socket or you'll have to move it back.  Get the kind with all the LED's in a flat plane and pointed opposite from the direction of the socket.  Not the kind that has them arranged to point radially as well as a few that point aft. Of course you need to have either 1156 or 1157 compatibility if you want it plug & play.  

I just did some searching - what I found - radiantz might be the best supplier.  See http://radiantz.com/cart/index1.html?c14.html&1

[RonW]

fantastic. I've never seen the 87/87a terminals used as inputs. Obviously, they're bidirectional. Almost poetic how well it works for this situation.

[MarkT]

fantastic. I've never seen the 87/87a terminals used as inputs. Obviously, they're bidirectional. Almost poetic how well it works for this situation.

Back in my geek days, we used to call such a solution - w/o wasted effort or parts, everything in harmony - as "elegant". 

[John Schmidt]

Go to Custom Dynamics website and order their red LED round cluster and get the clear lenses. Pick up  a used set of front run/turn from Pinwall or elsewhere and mount them in back. Then wire in the LED cluster for three way use. They're VERY bright, plus with LED's in the turn signal circuit you also will have to install the diode kit on the turn idicator light in the headlight bucket. The clusters needed for the rear from Custom Dynamics are p/n GEN-18-R. They're dual brightness and you just hard wire them in same as you would if you were using a regular bulb. To keep them up against the lens and standing up straight, I just stuffed a piece of foam in back since heat isn't a factor. I also replaced the taillight lens with a clear and installed the red LED plug in. All my lights are LED's except for the headlight and driving spots, and all are clear lens. This is my lights in back, that is not with the brake on either. People following me on other bikes think my brake is stuck on until they ask about it. Like I said....they're bright. It's a little more $$, but you get great results.

[Robert]

I agree with John with one exception you can go to the auto parts store and pick up a double filiment socket and either take out the old one and mount this cut out the old one or just wire it in the leds mount to the tail light lens so they dont have to have a solid mount on the base.