Math proves it. Unique approach to religion.

[John Schmidt]

From an old high school buddy of mine. When I think of some of the shenanigans we pulled as kids, and the life we led back when, I find this interchange with him refreshing. One of the things on my "bucket list" is to ride the Valk out to his place in Livermore, CA...about 45-50 miles east of San Fran.  Included in that list is to have another bud of ours(three musketeers) meet us there. He lives east of L.A., not sure where but know it's in the desert somewhere. He has money so no telling where his place is. As a youngster he used to run some homemade sipping stuff...all through jr. high and high school, he and three brothers. I'm kinda glad my girls didn't meet either of them...or their wives. Some things would have been hard to explain away, thankfully my parents never said anything to them about my youth.

Beauty of Mathematics	powered by Aeva

[grey ghost]

kewl..

[Stormrider65]

WOW!!!!!!!! That was amazing.   Thank you for sharing that.  Be safe and God Bless.

Walt

[Chattanooga Mark]

That's one of the best links ever! God is so awesome!

Thank You Sir,

Mark

[Walküre]

Say, this IS fun!! "Superstitious belief in an invisible super being" comes out to 562%!!!

And "Voodoo is real" gives you 148%!! That beats 101%, right?

How about "the devil throws better parties"?? that's a grand 340%!!


Sorry - some of us don't bother with 101...

And some feel it necessary to shove it down our throat in a public forum...

R

[bigvalkriefan]

Say, this IS fun!! "Superstitious belief in an invisible super being" comes out to 562%!!!

And "Voodoo is real" gives you 148%!! That beats 101%, right?

How about "the devil throws better parties"?? that's a grand 340%!!


Sorry - some of us don't bother with 101...

And some feel it necessary to shove it down our throat in a public forum...

R

Please explain how this was "shoved down your throat". Where you forced to watch it? I'll answer that for you, NO. You chose to use you mouse to read a post titled UNIQUE APPROACH TO RELIGION. HELLO, seems to me that if I'm so "offended" by a certain topic I don't think I'd read it.
I just don't understand people like you.  ???

[hubcapsc]

And some feel it necessary to shove it down our throat in a public forum...

I forgive you for shoving your atheism down our throats with every post you make in this
public forum. 

-Mike

[alph]

Wow, here I thought it was a video of a new type of Ouija board!!  I’d bet you’d get the same type of results with the Ouija. 

Hey Walkure guy, don’t try fighting ‘em.  It’s kind of like trying to talk to someone that believes in UFO’s or the loc-ness monster…..  once someone “see’s” something and their brain convinces them it’s real, there’s no way of getting that image out of their heads….. (it’s called brain washing)

And for all you people that are going to start a fight saying, there is a god, there is a god, YOU BETTER BEILIEVE IT OR YOU’RE GOING TO HELL!!  Don’t waist your time trying to prove it to me…..

As for the mathematical pyramids, that was neat.  Thanks for posting it.  Personally, I’m really interested in the Mandelbrot set.

[John Schmidt]

The title of my post was purposely stated so as to forewarn readers of the content. Having said that, then it follows that since you opened and read it voluntarily, it wasn't shoved down your throat. I'm not offended in any measure by your reply....amused somewhat by the comments often given, but not offended.

As an afterthought here's a statement that also gets a rather high mark numerically. Althought I've not taken the time to figure out the total, just the first three words come to 118% so I'm guessing overall it's rather high.
Taken from Psalm 14:1....."The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God."

Like the evening breeze, I can't see it....only feel its effect and power on me.

[Marcel]

The country we live in has given us Freedom to practice any Religion we want.

Thankfully we can have this discussion, we are FREE to do just that.

God Bless the USA.

Religion does not make one better than another person. Sometimes Religion makes a person worse.

As using it for a cloak of maliciousness. Or even worse to justify killing others.

I can see where a non-believer would have a problem with religion and everyone else can too.

Most are afraid to admit this fact that religion has killed more people in the name of God

than probably any other thing on Earth.


The first murder in the Bible was all about how to Please God in a religious sacrifice.

God in the story accepted Abel's offering but not Caine's.

Caine did not like that and sought to slay his brother and did so.

So it's very easy to see some folks might have a problem with religion.

It's not all  that pretty some of the things that happen in this old world.

But we are free to professs and excercise that right legally in this country.

Just not going to HEll is not the only good thing offered by following God.

A person needs to check out the faith he or she would follow or not follow

which ever the case may be.

But ignorance of religion is one thing that gives it a bad name.

God is good all the time,, Man Kind Is Not.

AL

[Dubsvalk]

Amen, Big Al!
Dubs

[Walküre]

The country we live in has given us Freedom to practice any Religion we want.

Thankfully we can have this discussion, we are FREE to do just that.

But ignorance of religion is one thing that gives it a bad name.

God is good all the time,, Man Kind Is Not.

AL

Well said, Al - the entire post.

As for reading the post. The OP said he used the title to forewarn of content. Hey, it says PROOF!!
There's nothing that a non-believer wants to see more, than PROOF. So, when someone says PROOF, I'm going to read it. But, when, instead of "proof", it turns out to be more "fluff"...

You mention that "ignorance of religion is one thing that gives it a bad name". I don't know if that is true or not. I DO know that the overwhelming majority of non-theists that I know, and am aware of, actually have a fairly good grasp and knowledge of religion. It's not as if we suddenly one day, awoke and decided that it is a bunch of hooey. Most have studied, and read, and made our own conclusions. And we continue to read and study. Believers like to say we "believe" there is no god. That's not true. We don't believe there IS a god. That doesn't mean that we aren't open to PROOF that there is a god. But, just saying "Look around - THAT'S proof there's a God!" doesn't cut it.

As for "shoving down my throat" - I come here to read about Valkyrie's. For every post about the "glories of God", I could post about the fallacies of god. I have NEVER originated a post, at how I feel about religion, or politics. It has always been in response to someone else. And I strive to make sure, I only post when someone makes the claim "this is REAL!!", as in "proof". In virtually ALL the forums I belong to, and there are a LOT, as I have many varied hobbies, there are hard, fast rules on religious and political posting. Most prohibit it entirely, and the ones that DO allow it, have a forum dedicated to it, often called "the sandbox". I feel this forum would benefit from such a forum, but the powers that be deem it not to be. I'm not the powers that be, so I have no say in it. So I'll continue to read most posts, and defend MY opinions with the same aplomb that others do. Of course, I can tell you for certain, that if I posted as often and as vehemently as others do, I would face the same "shove" description...

[hubcapsc]

I have NEVER originated a post, at how I feel about religion

au contraire. Every post you make "shoves" how you feel about religion "down our throats".

I like to come here to talk about Valkyries too. And I like the general board, even though there's
some threads here I don't care to read.

-Mike

[Marcel]

Car tire or motorcycle tire.

10w-40 or 20w-50

Black ones are fast,

97's are faster.

Budha or Hari Chrishna

Ford or Chevrolet

Modified to not offend.

Honda or Harley

WE all make choices in this life,

But on here we should not push our choices off on others.

Make your bets and live by the results.

I applaud all choices, because that's just human nature.



In this case it is the Valkyrie that brings us together and just leave it at that.

Al

PS: Nice Picture in your post there Alph. That would look good on a Valkyrie.

[9Ball]

Car tire or motorcycle tire.
10w-40 or 20w-50
Black ones are fast,
97's are faster.
Budha or Hari Chrishna
Ford or Chevrolet
Heterosexual or Gay
Honda or Harley

WE all make choices in this life,

But on here we should not push our choices off on others.

Make your bets and live by the results.

I applaud all choices, because that's just human nature.



In this case it is the Valkyrie that brings us together and just leave it at that.

Al

PS: Nice Picture in your post there Alph. That would look good on a Valkyrie.

then there's the Car tire ,20w-50, Black ones are fast, 97's are faster, Hari Chrishna, Chevrolet, Gay
Harley rider that will be offended....jeesh

[John Schmidt]

And all I did was copy and paste both the title and linked the video.  Was never my intention to stir up such a controversy, but I offer no apologies. Actually, I found the numeric pyramids rather interesting, the second half I had seen before. Although it did remind me of it being used as an object lesson in a Sunday School class one time many years ago. The teacher asked if the children had any suggestions/sayings they wanted to use and see what the number total was. A girl that apparently was having trouble with a little brother asked what the numbers would be for "hitting my brother with a bat."  The subject was quickly changed. 

[Chattanooga Mark]

Some people just regularly volunteer to be offended and spread their hate for God. Everyone is given a measure of faith. Only a few seem to recognize it for it's intended purpose. Thanks again for your post John. But sadly it gave me another person to ignore on the site.

All the best,

Mark

It's your relationship, not your religion, with God that matters.   

[Sludge]

Taken from Psalm 14:1....."The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God."

Many worship science, but they should heed those words.  Scientifically speaking, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  God's existence cant be proven nor dis-proven through science. 

So, everyone take a chill pill.  We all get to have our OWN personal take on this. 

Oh, and the fractals are beautiful arent they 

[bigvalkriefan]

I have no problem with someone who chooses not to put their faith in God or Jesus, that's their, excuse the expression, God given right. What I do have a problem with is when they have to make fun of or make derogatory statements about what I believe. Example:Say, this IS fun!! "Superstitious belief in an invisible super being"  
All of the Christians I know do not do this type of thing to non believers. We actually feel sorry for you. You see, we all have faith, whether you realize it or not. I have put my faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of the almighty God in whom we have eternal life. I could tell you all of the things that He has done through me but that wouldn't mean diddly squat to you, understandably, because you didn't experience them yourself.
You on the other hand have decided to put your faith in the fact that there may or may not be a God or a Jesus or whatever. It takes even more faith for you to believe what you believe than I in what I believe. You are probably constantly questioning why. Why if there is a God is there suffering, why do children die of abuse, why is there war. And you can't come up with an answer and you never will, not one that will satisfy you.
Look at it this way; I have Jesus as my Savior and I die and low and behold there is no such thing as God and heaven. What's the worst that happens, NOTHING. I've led a good life, did a lot of mission type work helping others, been a good example to others etc.
You , the non believer die, find out that there is a God, Jesus and heaven and what's the worst that happens? It's called the eternal UH OH. Your going to hell and if you read the book of revelation you want no part of that.
You have a decision that you need to make. Do I put my faith in something that the worst that can happen is nothing or in something that will mean the pit of hell.
You REALLY need to pray about this and ask God to reveal the truth to you. He will.

[Valkahuna]

Don't worry about it John. It was interesting to watch the video. As an adult I always form my own opinions, and yet respect the right of others to form theirs. I've also learned to keep my more controversial opinions to myself.

Others unfortunately, look at everything as a possible source for either a disagreement, or as a way to show their own self imagined superiority. I have always found Walkure to be a real "in your face" kind of a poster, (JMHO) so I have learned to read all of his posts and replys with a grain of salt. He is probably not a bad guy, just comes across that way.

[Reb]

I'm not a religious person, but mathematically that was pretty awesome!

[Tundra]

Some people just regularly volunteer to be offended and spread their hate for God. Everyone is given a measure of faith. Only a few seem to recognize it for it's intended purpose. Thanks again for your post John. But sadly it gave me another person to ignore on the site.

All the best,

Mark

It's your relationship, not your religion, with God that matters.  

Well done

[98valk]

The country we live in has given us Freedom to practice any Religion we want.

Thankfully we can have this discussion, we are FREE to do just that.

But ignorance of religion is one thing that gives it a bad name.

God is good all the time,, Man Kind Is Not.

AL

 Most have studied, and read, and made our own conclusions. And we continue to read and study. Believers like to say we "believe" there is no god. That's not true. We don't believe there IS a god. That doesn't mean that we aren't open to PROOF that there is a god. But, just saying "Look around - THAT'S proof there's a God!" doesn't cut it.

In my experience, non-believers focus and study only on the 20% of the evidence out there that could prove that there is no god and ignore the 80% of the proof that there is only One True God.
And that 20% is usually twisted and folded over to satisfy the non-believer, basically as u said "brain washing"

take the Good test if your truely seeking the Truth
http://www.livingwaters.com/good/

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

However, Christianity is not a blind faith. It is the only religion that can prove itself, and a main source of that proof is the Bible.
Proving whether something is true or not is called apologetics. This word is derived from the Greek word “apologia,” which means “to defend.” The entire Clarifying Christianity site is filled with apologetics—proofs and explanations for many Christian-related issues.

[Hef]

John, That was a great post. My only comment other than I enjoyed your post is this: For those who would like to have actual proof there is a God, just be patient, you will.

[Bobbo]

You on the other hand have decided to put your faith in the fact that there may or may not be a God or a Jesus or whatever. It takes even more faith for you to believe what you believe than I in what I believe. You are probably constantly questioning why. Why if there is a God is there suffering, why do children die of abuse, why is there war. And you can't come up with an answer and you never will, not one that will satisfy you.
Look at it this way; I have Jesus as my Savior and I die and low and behold there is no such thing as God and heaven. What's the worst that happens, NOTHING. I've led a good life, did a lot of mission type work helping others, been a good example to others etc.
You , the non believer die, find out that there is a God, Jesus and heaven and what's the worst that happens? It's called the eternal UH OH. Your going to hell and if you read the book of revelation you want no part of that.
You have a decision that you need to make. Do I put my faith in something that the worst that can happen is nothing or in something that will mean the pit of hell.
You REALLY need to pray about this and ask God to reveal the truth to you. He will.

Your comment assumes there are only two possibilities.  God, or no God.  There are many more possibilities.  What if the Hindu religion was the correct one?  What do you say to the Hindu gods when they want to know why you followed a false prophet?

[Bobbo]

And all I did was copy and paste both the title and linked the video.  Was never my intention to stir up such a controversy, but I offer no apologies. Actually, I found the numeric pyramids rather interesting, the second half I had seen before. Although it did remind me of it being used as an object lesson in a Sunday School class one time many years ago. The teacher asked if the children had any suggestions/sayings they wanted to use and see what the number total was. A girl that apparently was having trouble with a little brother asked what the numbers would be for "hitting my brother with a bat."  The subject was quickly changed. 

The video is interesting, but all it does is show some of the attributes and quirks of a base-10 numbering system.  If you were to use a different base, it would make a mess out of those symmetric equations.  People have associated numeric patterns with special meanings for a very long time.  What most don’t realize is the pattern only exists due to the particulars of the math system used.

[hubcapsc]

What if the Hindu religion was the correct one?

What if division by zero had a well defined value in ordinary arithmetic?

-Mike

[Bobbo]

What if the Hindu religion was the correct one?

What if division by zero had a well defined value in ordinary arithmetic?

-Mike

Then cheap calculators would no longer show ERROR?  What?

[98valk]

Your comment assumes there are only two possibilities.  God, or no God.  There are many more possibilities.  What if the Hindu religion was the correct one?  What do you say to the Hindu gods when they want to know why you followed a false prophet?


[/quote]

The tomb where Jesus was buried is empty. He rose from the dead and it has been documented. He was seen walking around and eating by over 500 witnesses. All of the other religious leaders/gods, budda, mohama, etc., are all still in their graves, bones included.

[Bobbo]

The tomb where Jesus was buried is empty. He rose from the dead and it has been documented. He was seen walking around and eating by over 500 witnesses. All of the other religious leaders/gods, budda, mohama, etc., are all still in their graves, bones included.

The resurrection story has been a part of many pre-Christian religions.  In ancient Greek religions, quite a few humans were resurrected to become gods.  It is no surprise that resurrection was included in the story of Jesus, as it adds mystique and confirmation to people eager to believe it.

[Walküre]

The tomb where Jesus was buried is empty. He rose from the dead and it has been documented. He was seen walking around and eating by over 500 witnesses. All of the other religious leaders/gods, budda, mohama, etc., are all still in their graves, bones included.

That's only 32 less witnesses, than Elvis...

And thousands less than UFO's.

[98valk]

The tomb where Jesus was buried is empty. He rose from the dead and it has been documented. He was seen walking around and eating by over 500 witnesses. All of the other religious leaders/gods, budda, mohama, etc., are all still in their graves, bones included.

The resurrection story has been a part of many pre-Christian religions.  In ancient Greek religions, quite a few humans were resurrected to become gods.  It is no surprise that resurrection was included in the story of Jesus, as it adds mystique and confirmation to people eager to believe it.

u need to study the link I provided about the accurancy of the bible or study about books of antiquity. the bible is more accurate than all when put to the historical tests used for books of antiquity. your comments are inaccurate. please provide these pre-christian religions u speak of and the ancient greek religions that meet the historical tests and of antiquity.

[bigvalkriefan]

You on the other hand have decided to put your faith in the fact that there may or may not be a God or a Jesus or whatever. It takes even more faith for you to believe what you believe than I in what I believe. You are probably constantly questioning why. Why if there is a God is there suffering, why do children die of abuse, why is there war. And you can't come up with an answer and you never will, not one that will satisfy you.
Look at it this way; I have Jesus as my Savior and I die and low and behold there is no such thing as God and heaven. What's the worst that happens, NOTHING. I've led a good life, did a lot of mission type work helping others, been a good example to others etc.
You , the non believer die, find out that there is a God, Jesus and heaven and what's the worst that happens? It's called the eternal UH OH. Your going to hell and if you read the book of revelation you want no part of that.
You have a decision that you need to make. Do I put my faith in something that the worst that can happen is nothing or in something that will mean the pit of hell.
You REALLY need to pray about this and ask God to reveal the truth to you. He will.

Your comment assumes there are only two possibilities.  God, or no God.  There are many more possibilities.  What if the Hindu religion was the correct one?  What do you say to the Hindu gods when they want to know why you followed a false prophet?

Bobbo,
As far as I know and I'm no scholar Christianity is the only religion that has history and evidence to back it up. The following was taken from some sites I use, they say it much better than I can. May be it will clear things up a little for you.

Jesus of Nazareth was born in Bethlehem in Judea during the reign of Caesar Augustus and was put to death by Pontius Pilate, a first century Roman Governor. The testimony of his life, death and resurrection is not only validated by credible eyewitness testimony but by credible extra-biblical evidence as well. No other religion can legitimately claim this kind of support from history and evidence.

Furthermore, of all the great religious leaders of the world (Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Lao Tzu, Muhammad), only Jesus claimed to be God in human flesh (Mark 14:62). And this was not an empty boast. For through the historically verifiable fact of resurrection Christ vindicated His claim to deity (Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:3-8). Other religions, such as Buddhism and Islam, claim miracles in support of their faith, however, unlike Christianity, such miracles lack historical validation.

Some people object “if Christ existed why was he not mentioned in non-Christian literature from the first century?”  He was.  First of all, very few written works of anything have survived from the first century. According to one scholar, bookends set one foot apart could contain every thing written between 50-70 A.D. Nevertheless, the historicity of Christ is verified by many of these non-Christian historical writings.  Cornelius  Tacitus, a Roman historian (born 52-54 A.D.), writes how Nero “punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians... Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate...” (Annals, XV.44).   Flavius Josephus (born 37 A.D.) was a Jewish historian, who writes “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man... for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive truth with pleasure. He drew over both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles... and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him.... And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.” (Antiquities, xviii. 33.).   Many other first-century and early second- century writers, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, Hadrian, Suetonius,  Phlegon, Lucian, Mara Bar-Serapion, and others mention in their writings the darkness of the earth when Christ was crucified, the earthquake, the crucifixion of Christ by Pilate,  the resurrection of Christ believed by his followers, the persecution of Christians, etc.  All this from unbelievers in Christianity.
Finally, Christianity is unique in that it is a coherent belief structure. Some Christian doctrines may transcend comprehension, however, unlike the claims of other religions, they are never irrational or contradictory.
Christianity is also unique in that it cogently accounts for the vast array of phenomena we encounter in everyday life: the human mind, laws of science, laws of logic, ethical norms, justice, love, meaning in life, the problem of evil and suffering, and truth. In other words, Christianity corresponds with the reality of our present condition.

2 Peter 1:16 says, "We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty."

[Bobbo]

u need to study the link I provided about the accurancy of the bible or study about books of antiquity. the bible is more accurate than all when put to the historical tests used for books of antiquity. your comments are inaccurate. please provide these pre-christian religions u speak of and the ancient greek religions that meet the historical tests and of antiquity.

I recommend you study ancient Greek and Egyptian religious beliefs.  You will find stories like Attis, who was resurrected by Zeus after killing himself out of grief.
None of these stories have any proof, just like the Biblical account of Jesus.  These “antiquity tests” are meaningless, as they depend on the text in a document to prove the same document or spin-off document.

If you study the evolution of Christianity from it’s Greek Pagan roots, you will begin to understand how many religions are co-mingled until one version wins out in a particular region.  This phenomenon explains how so many different religious beliefs can develop from a single event, either real or imagined.

[Bobbo]

Furthermore, of all the great religious leaders of the world (Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Lao Tzu, Muhammad), only Jesus claimed to be God in human flesh (Mark 14:62). And this was not an empty boast. For through the historically verifiable fact of resurrection Christ vindicated His claim to deity (Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:3-8). Other religions, such as Buddhism and Islam, claim miracles in support of their faith, however, unlike Christianity, such miracles lack historical validation.

Actually, quite a few people have claimed to be God.  Egyptian pharaohs commonly claimed to be God in the flesh, as did some Roman emperors. 
Mark 14:62 says Jesus answered that he was the “Son of the Blessed One”, not God himself.

[bigvalkriefan]

John 10:30    "I and the Father are one."

[Spirited-6]

And some feel it necessary to shove it down our throat in a public forum...

I forgive you for shoving your atheism down our throats with every post you make in this
public forum. 

-Mike

I agree Mike. I remember when I posted about folks useing the "selling for health reasons" and being a ploy to get more responses. Walkure wanted to have me hung up to the old Oak Tree. 

[98valk]

u need to study the link I provided about the accurancy of the bible or study about books of antiquity. the bible is more accurate than all when put to the historical tests used for books of antiquity. your comments are inaccurate. please provide these pre-christian religions u speak of and the ancient greek religions that meet the historical tests and of antiquity.

 These “antiquity tests” are meaningless, as they depend on the text in a document to prove the same document or spin-off document.

amazing u just threw the entire historical community on its ear. do they know u have this knowledge?
u have limited knowledge on this subject.
All ancient writtings are put to antiquity tests and the bible best all of them, tests and the writtings.

how does this religion compare to the bible?
"the Buddha was an oral teacher only; he left no writings.  Indeed for many years after his death, his teachings were only promulgated by word of mouth.  It was not until about 100 B.C., more than three centuries after the Buddha's death, that at least some of his teachings were put into writing."


THIS TEST IS APPLIED TO ALL ANCIENT HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS...
      1. Such as:
         a) Julius Caesar's "Gallic War"
         b) "Histories" of Tacitus
         c) "Annals" of Tacitus
         d) The New Testament

HOW MANY COPIES OF NEW TESTAMENT MANUSCRIPTS ARE AVAILABLE?
      1. Over 4,000 Greek manuscripts; 13,000 copies of portions of the
         New Testament in Greek!
      2. Compare this with other ancient historical writings:
         a. Caesar's "Gallic Wars" - only 10 Greek manuscripts
         b. "Annals" of Tacitus - 2
         c. Livy - 20; Plato - 7; Sophocles - 100

WHAT LENGTH OF TIME PASSED BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL AND THE EARLIEST
      COPIES?
      1. We saw in the previous lesson that several PAPYRI FRAGMENTS
         have been dated to within 50-100 years
      2. We have several nearly complete New Testament GREEK MANUSCRIPTS
         which were copied within 300-400 years, for example:
         a. Codex Sinaiticus, found near Mt. Sinai
         b. Codex Alexandrinus, found near Alexandria in Egypt
         c. Codex Vaticanus, located at the Vatican in Rome
      3. But COMPARE THIS WITH MANUSCRIPTS OF VARIOUS CLASSICAL
         HISTORIES:
         a. "Histories of Thucydides" - earliest copy is 1300 years
            removed from the original
         b. "Histories of Herodotus" - earliest copy is 1350 years
            removed from the original
         c. Caesar's "Gallic War" - 950 years
         d. Roman History of Livy - 350 years (and the earliest copy is
            only a fragment)
         e. "Histories" of Tacitus - 750 years
         f. "Annals" of Tacitus - 950 years (and there are only two
            manuscripts)

JOSH MCDOWELL makes some interesting comments:

   "After trying to shatter the historicity and validity of the
   Scripture, I came to the conclusion that they are historically
   trustworthy. If one discards the Bible as being unreliable, then he
   must discard almost all literature of antiquity."

so Bobbo, do u still discard almost all literature of antiquity?

http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/ca/ca_06.htm    do your research before u make comments about something that u know nothing about as most people also don't.

[Robert]

I like science but its not perfect and only catches up to things that are in the Bible one being the following
read it then you can go to the article if you want.

Entanglement is the strange quantum phenomenon in which two or more particles become so deeply linked that they share the same existence.

That leads to some counter intuitive effects, in particular, when two entangled particles become widely separated. When that happens, a measurement on one immediately influences the other, regardless of the distance between them. This "spooky-action-at-a-distance" has profound implications about the nature of reality but a clear understanding of it still eludes physicists.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26270/?p1=A3

When God gave Moses the measurements for the Arc of the Covenant God said be exact that in essence they are the earthly things for things that are in heaven. Maybe this is why God was so exact because He already knew this. Especially the Mercy seat when  His presence hovers there.

[Robert]

As usual the story of Cain and Able gets mis understood. Able brought the first and best of His flock Cain just brought a offering,great examples of what we do today. Even so God actually spoke to Cain and said if you do well then He will accept his offering. So he spoke to God one on one God told Cain what to do to make it right but rebellion and anger rose up in him so he slew His brother. God even allowed Cain to live and somewhat protected him after the killing.  As usual it had nothing to do with religion they actually spoke to God and had a relationship with Him one on one, so the most you could say is he betrayed his Fathers trust. It is far worse to bend the truth slightly than to fabricate totally.