Rearend noise -- STILL!!! -- WHOO-HOO!! found it

[Tx Bohemian]

Ok, let's rehash:

A few months back my '99 standard-17.5K miles- developed a ticking/clicking type noise in the rear with every revolution of the rear tire/wheel.

Long story short:
After researching for the noise found real nasty oil in the rear diff.  (it was checked 500 miles before and was in good shape) Wave washer broke in two, grinding in the housing.
Do I repair or replace?
Ended up replacing the complete diff assy with one from a member who triked his bike. (29K miles) Was sure this fixed it.

Test drove, same clicking noise still there!! DAMMITT!!!

Next on the list was bearings.  Replaced them (SKF).  Old bearings looked bad.  High hopes that this fixed it!!

Test drove it, the noise is still there!! DOUBLE CRAP!!



Brakes have no affect on noise.  Either applying the brake or pulling the shoes does not change the noise in anyway.

Other members suggestions that had similar rear clicking noises was the plastic thrust washer between wheel and flange, and the plastic ring that mounts on the diff housing between housing and wheel.

Pulled it apart Monday to check these items closer (and re-check the other stuff, which looks good).  I will replace the thrust washer, doesn't look that bad but not that good either.
Replaced the plastic ring with the one from the "bad oil" differential, again the one on the bike doesn't look that bad.
Will also use the flange from the old "bad oil" diff.
 Just grabbing in the dark here!

One thing that gets me, and why I'm going to change the flange, is when I attemp to pull the wheel the flange stays in the diff and will not allow the wheel to drop out, not enough room.  I have to pry it out of the differential into the wheel to gain enough space to get the wheel out.  It does have plenty of grease on it.

I don't have that much more hair left to pull out so I'm open to more suggestions.

[Hook#3287]

Just a guess here but could it be the U-joint?   Have you checked the spline on the front end of the driveshaft?

[Hook#3287]

Can you lift the rear end and run the wheel?  Maybe with a stethiscope on the diff will tell you if it's in there or not.

I had the same problem taking the wheel off.  The final driven flange stayed on the diff. Sucks!  Is there some way of preventing that?

[Cattman]

Brake caliper somehow making contact??  As others said get it on a lift and engage the rear with someone listening for the exact noise location.

[Chrisj CMA]

Sounds oddly like my friends bike. We could not isolate a clicking until I put my spare wheel on his bike and the noise was gone.  Even though his bearings LOOKED good and spun smooth when done by hand, the bearing seat on the left side was wallard out at the base of the seat so the bearing was actually moving back and forth causing hte tick......Believe it or not!

[Ricky-D]

There is an opening in the bottom of the differential where you can insert a screw driver and pry the flange out of the hub.

A real aid in this,, is to re-install the axle with all the brake stuff off including the spacer. Doing this keeps everything aligned and allows the wheel with the flange to slide over easily, away from the hub.

***

[Tx Bohemian]

A real aid in this,, is to re-install the axle with all the brake stuff off including the spacer. Doing this keeps everything aligned and allows the wheel with the flange to slide over easily, away from the hub.

***

Yeah, I was thinking about doing that.  Evidently the mis-alignment when removing the wheel binds the flange and it comes off the 5 studs easier than off the splines.
Thanks

Just a guess here but could it be the U-joint?   Have you checked the spline on the front end of the driveshaft?

I lubed everything when I replaced the diff and it all looked good.
Being that this makes noise with every revolution of the wheel I'd think if it was in the u-joint/drive shaft it would make noise three times per every revolution of the tire.
But you know this bike has thrown me for a loop a few times already so this is something to think about.

Sounds oddly like my friends bike. We could not isolate a clicking until I put my spare wheel on his bike and the noise was gone.  Even though his bearings LOOKED good and spun smooth when done by hand, the bearing seat on the left side was wallard out at the base of the seat so the bearing was actually moving back and forth causing hte tick......Believe it or not!

When I replaced the bearings the left was not as snug as the right but still snug (way more than the front which I actually pushed out by hand. yeah, I need new wheels)

[Sodbuster]

Have you tried turning the wheel when it's in the air on the bike lift ??  Also, I know this is going to sound dumb and really simple but there isn't like a stone or nail in the tire that hits the pavement ?? 

[Tx Bohemian]

Have you tried turning the wheel when it's in the air on the bike lift ??  Also, I know this is going to sound dumb and really simple but there isn't like a stone or nail in the tire that hits the pavement ?? 

Yes I did turn it as it was on a lift and the noise is still there but not as loud, I'm thinking probably due to not being under a load.  That's why I know it's not brake related, I've pulled them apart.

I checked for stones/nails and believe me I was wishing that's what it was. 
I'd feel real stupid... but happy... if that would've fixed it.

[Sodbuster]

I had a GL1100 once where one of the rear bearings was loose in the bore (could remove it by hand). I brought it into a machine shop where they bored out where the bearing was by .1250". They machined up a sleeve and pressed it into place and then bored the I.D. to give a press fit to the new bearing. So, don't discard the wheel until you get an opinion from a machine shop.

[eric in md]

what about the bearing not in far enough and that little spacer between the bearing moving around. wish you was closer we could find it for ya

[Challenger]

Just a little trick on the splines sticking, slide axle out half way, remove brake support and spacer, reinstall axle, slide wheel over to the left, Now you have both hands free to pry splines over  into wheel, remove axle and drop wheel off.

[Warlock]

When I replaced the bearings the left was not as snug as the right but still snug (way more than the front which I actually pushed out by hand. yeah, I need new wheels)





[/quote]I had the same problem. Found out that one of the bearing was not tight in the race. I took and cut a drink can and used it as a shim and then center punched around the outer race. My clicking went away. If they do not seat tight it will make this sound. Put you bike on the lift and grab to wheel and try and move it side to side and see if it makes the sound. If so you bearing needs a tighter fit.
David

[Earl in Pensacola]

It was my '97 with about 200K on it that ChrisJ CMA was talking about.  We had taken apart the brakes, replaced the bearings, pulled the whole thing apart and also replaced the u-joint.  It was the bearing "hole".  It had finally wallered out just enough to allow the bearing (under weight of the bike) to click as the wheel rotated. I bought a wheel from Pinwall that was just like new (18K on it) for $150.  Noise went away.   

[Quicksilver]

Had a problem on my 97 at 45000km, noise that was amplified by the windshield. Turns out bearing left side had worn a groove in wheel, didn't see it until I decided to replace rear bearings to try and get rid of noise. Replaced rear wheel. Splines were also worn badly to about 1/2 tooth, perhaps related to bearing problem, replaced them as well.

[Tx Bohemian]

...don't discard the wheel until you get an opinion from a machine shop.

Yeah, that is a good suggestion however the wheels on this bike have been chromeplated and, like all the rest of the stuff on this bike that has been plated, their peeling so they don't look that good anyway.

Short history on the bike: I bought it about 1-1/2 yrs ago and before I got it it sat up in a shop for 2-1/2yrs not being moved at all.  And probably was sitting on the wheels (as opposed to on a stand with wheels off the ground) so it probably had some "false brinelling" on the bearings that maybe transfered to the wheel(?)
Just a shot in the dark cause what I'm hearing here is the bikes with this kinda trouble have 50K - 200K miles, this thing has 18K now.

It also had a cover on it for that time so that's why I think the chrome is peeling so bad (high a$$ humidity around here).

I guess the best thing that could happen is I find a bike that doesn't make this noise and "borrow" the wheel for a 20-30 mile ride (it would show up in that length of time) just to be sure that is what it is, kinda like Chris and Earl did.
And if that's it then go hunting for a good wheel. Or if the sound still persists start looking for something else.

[wizard -vrccds#125]

I have a wheel of a bike I just got if you need to use one to check things out. Give me a call   

[alph]

i didn't have a ticking noise, but a whining noise.  (kinda like the wife when i want sex)

turns out it was my drive shaft.  nearly all the teeth were gone on both the pinion cup, and shaft.  i never thought of checking that!! 

did you try a different wheel??  i wonder if there's something INSIDE your tire?  did the guy that put on your tire accidently screw up and drop a stem valve in it or something weird????  does the ticking noise happen at all speeds or only at slow??

let us know what you find out to solve this issue!!  thanks. al.

[Garland]

After I had my wheels chrome plated I went through 3 rear wheel bearings in short order. The left bearing just wouldn't seat properly. I ended up having the wheel plugged and rebored for the bearing, which fixed the problem.

[Tx Bohemian]

After I had my wheels chrome plated I went through 3 rear wheel bearings in short order. The left bearing just wouldn't seat properly. I ended up having the wheel plugged and rebored for the bearing, which fixed the problem.

Yeah, as I stated my wheels, that are chromed plated, look like crap with the chrome pitting/peeling so I'm not intending to spend any more $ on them, I'll just look for another set.  Was hoping to run these for a little longer while I look for others but I may have to speed that thought up a bit sooner.

I was able to borrow a wheel for test purposes (Thanks Wizard!!) and put it on yesterday but ran into another issue (which always seems to happen with this bike).


For some reason the brake mounting bracket, which mounts on the axle and then the caliper mounts to it and is also chrome plated, was rubbing severly on the inside of the brake rotor?!?!?

I know it wasn't rubbing on my wheel, or at least not this much --WTF?!?!?!?

After doing some measurements on the wheels and Wizard and I putting our heads together we figured this bracket must be bent some how.  So seeing as how the chrome plating is peeling on this also I need another one of these so, Pinwall, here I come!!

Who knows, this may have been my problem all along...got my fingers crossed...

[Chrisj CMA]

look at the bolts holding the rotor on both wheels.  Early years have cap bolts, later ones have countersunk.  These two rotor styles are not interchangable without their corresponding caliper plates......shimming may be required to make it work

[Tx Bohemian]

look at the bolts holding the rotor on both wheels.  Early years have cap bolts, later ones have countersunk.  These two rotor styles are not interchangable without their corresponding caliper plates......shimming may be required to make it work

I got just the wheel without the rotor so I needed to use mine.  I have a '99 and the test wheel came off a '98.  My wheel did have the contersunk bolts.

and that's exactly what I did was shim the rotor with some washers and now it's right where it needs to be, pretty much in the center of the bracket.
Although I got the bike together late yesterday I didn't have a chance to try ride it, to PO'd and worn out, but hopefully I'll test it today after work and at least see if the ticking/clicking noise is changed, or gone hopfully.

What is this "caliper plate" you talk about?

[Chrisj CMA]

The caliper plate is the part that the axel goes through....the big silver thing that the caliper is attached to....apparantly there are two different parts, one for each type of rotor.........but if you used your rotor on the test wheel, then there must be differences in the wheel hub as well........first I heard of that though

[Ricky-D]

Yes, I agree!

It doesn't seem reasonable that Honda would change the wheels in any way, but then, sometimes Honda does go to the extreme.

The difference in the brake rotor is that one is relieved on the backside and one is not!

The rotor with the recessed holes for the screws is the one that is not relieved on the backside.

I've often considered that the caliper mounting plate may also be in the mix but haven't cared enough to look at it in any comprehensive way. I suspect they are all the same however and that explains why I haven't looked any further.

But again, I have to agree that there ought to be something else besides the rotor in order to make the whole system work properly the way it should for the two different set-ups.

***

[GOOSE]

this may be a dumb suggestion, but....,i had a clicking sound in one of mine, and it ended up being the brake disc bolts were just a little bit loose, and allowed the disc to just barely move causing a clicking sound.  once i tightened the bolts up to torque-no more clicking.

[Marcel]

Lucky 13 had that same clicking noise.

You have repaired or replaced everything else.

SO you ain't gonna believe my suggestion.

You need a new or different wheel.

DOn't go out and buy one just yet.

Try another riders wheel and I don't know how it helps, tolorances or what ever , but I think you

will notice the clicking goes away, cheap trial of just using someone else's wheel and then

If it works pinwall can supply the wheel.

It worked for Gordon after everything he tried.

It may for you.

AL

[Tx Bohemian]

Found it! (or at least I think/hope)

 Between the weather and OT at work this week, today, finally, was the first chance I had to try out the wheel I borrowed from Wizard that I put on last SUNDAY!!!

Put about 35 miles on it (the noise usually started at 20) and it is quiet as a church mouse!! (however quiet that is)

I'll put my old wheel back on because I couldn't talk Wizard out of selling me this one.  I'll take extra care on the brake plate/rotor clearance issue but it looks like I'll be keeping an eye open for wheels.

Unless some fall out of the sky I'll have to run these a bit longer due to some extra expenses in the past couple of months.

At least I know what the noise is, that alone somewhat puts my mind at ease.

Thanks, again, fellas for all the help and suggestions.

Al

[Misfit]

You said you had 18k on the bike. The wheels could have much more. A lot of folks exchanged there wheels to avoid down time. Just a thought.

[Tx Bohemian]

You said you had 18k on the bike. The wheels could have much more. A lot of folks exchanged there wheels to avoid down time. Just a thought.

I thought about that.  It's possible the previous owner did just that.

[John U.]

Yes, I agree!

It doesn't seem reasonable that Honda would change the wheels in any way, but then, sometimes Honda does go to the extreme.

The difference in the brake rotor is that one is relieved on the backside and one is not!

The rotor with the recessed holes for the screws is the one that is not relieved on he backside.

I've often considered that the caliper mounting plate may also be in the mix but haven't cared enough to look at it in any comprehensive way. I suspect they are all the same however and that explains why I haven't looked any further.

But again, I have to agree that there ought to be something else besides the rotor in order to make the whole system work properly the way it should for the two different set-ups.

***

Honda did change the rear wheels. The early (97/98) are marked 1J on the wheel under the rotor. Wheels for 99 and later bikes are marked 2J. I understood that the wheel and rotor need to be matched. I don't know if the brake components are different as well.

[Lonerbtw]

Hey Allen  Tryed to e-mail you and it came back. PM me please.
 Lonerbtw

[Cholla]

I also had a sort of small "knock" sound as my wheel turned.  Mostly heard it at low speeds coming to a stop.  Also, if I had the bike on the centerstand and turned the rear wheel by hand, I could hear the "knock" or binding noise every 1/2 revolution or so. 

Mine turned out to be the rubber rear wheel dampers.  It started after I replaced the OEM dampers with some aftermarket dampers.  The fit was so tight I had to pound the final drive flange into the dampers with a rubber mallet (should have been my first clue).  After a couple of months, I went back to OEM dampers and the sound disappeared.  There were score marks on the pegs of the flange where it was binding with the damper inserts. 

May not be related to your problem, but thought I'd chime in just in case...

Ride Safe

[Ken Tarver]

wow, wish i had known this information a few days ago....would have saved me a lot of work and frustration.... at myself.
did get problem resolved though  

Ken

[Ken Tarver]

by the way ~ i have a set of stock (not chromed) '97 wheels i will now be selling, no rotors, no drive flange, no dampers, no damper hold down plate. they DO HAVE bearings, dust seals, centering spacers.

Ken

[Ricky-D]

Found it! (or at least I think/hope)

 Between the weather and OT at work this week, today, finally, was the first chance I had to try out the wheel I borrowed from Wizard that I put on last SUNDAY!!!

Put about 35 miles on it (the noise usually started at 20) and it is quiet as a church mouse!! (however quiet that is)

I'll put my old wheel back on because I couldn't talk Wizard out of selling me this one.  I'll take extra care on the brake plate/rotor clearance issue but it looks like I'll be keeping an eye open for wheels.

Unless some fall out of the sky I'll have to run these a bit longer due to some extra expenses in the past couple of months.

At least I know what the noise is, that alone somewhat puts my mind at ease.

Thanks, again, fellas for all the help and suggestions.

Al

Seems to me all you can say is the different wheel you put on your bike does not have the same problem.

As I see it, the problem is still not found, it still resides with the wheel you took off, and if you sell that wheel - you have simply given that problem to the next unknowing buyer of the wheel.

This is not intended as criticism.

***

[Rio Wil]

I also had a sort of small "knock" sound as my wheel turned.  Mostly heard it at low speeds coming to a stop.  Also, if I had the bike on the centerstand and turned the rear wheel by hand, I could hear the "knock" or binding noise every 1/2 revolution or so. 

Mine turned out to be the rubber rear wheel dampers.  It started after I replaced the OEM dampers with some aftermarket dampers.  The fit was so tight I had to pound the final drive flange into the dampers with a rubber mallet (should have been my first clue).  After a couple of months, I went back to OEM dampers and the sound disappeared.  There were score marks on the pegs of the flange where it was binding with the damper inserts. 

May not be related to your problem, but thought I'd chime in just in case...

Ride Safe

Just out of curiosity where did you get the set of aftermarket dampers.....wondering who makes them?

Thx

[Tx Bohemian]

Seems to me all you can say is the different wheel you put on your bike does not have the same problem.

??
Ok, this bike had a clicking noise that was a problem for me and it's not there now, therefore to me the problem is fixed.

As I see it, the problem is still not found,

I disagree, see above explanation

it still resides with the wheel you took off, and if you sell that wheel - you have simply given that problem to the next unknowing buyer of the wheel. 

  If I will sell this wheel I will, evidently unlike you (this is where I lower myself and assume, such as you have done),  tell the potential buyer(s) the whole story of this wheel or all that I know about it.  I'll even refer them to this post if their interested.

How do I, or you, know - maybe the buyer has a machine shop and can sleeve it to fix it, or maybe someone wants hang it on their wall, or make a clock out of it, or go throw it off Niagra falls and see what kinda splash it makes, etc...
It's none of my buisiness, or yours(unless you're the buyer), what the buyer wants to do with it once bought

This is not intended as criticism.

***

Whether it was intended or not this is exactly what it is!
You're "assuming" I'm an a$$ and will try to screw my fellow biker/human.

You adding this statement falls along the lines of:
You can say anything bad about anybody as long as you add; "bless his heart" and that makes it all right.

It just doesn't work here.