sailed2japan
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« on: June 09, 2011, 08:59:07 PM » |
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I've seen that Dogg has his motor punched out to 1740 cc's. I don't know if I want to go that big, but I would like to bore & stroke my motor. I looked into a supercharger, but the $4200 price tag is inhibiting. I'm thinking about trying to build an oversized motor with or without fuel injection.
Any ideas?
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fordmano
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Posts: 1457
San Jose, CA. 1999 I/S 232 miles when bought 11/05
San Jose, CA.
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2011, 11:31:38 PM » |
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Generally speaking;
Speed is just a question of money! How fast do you wanna go?
If your looking for unbelievable speed,,, that FatLady is plenty fast for most but if you really want peal your eyelids back try Something designed by real high priced engineers. Maybe a Hyabusa, VMax, ZX14, or a fistful of other readily commercially available.
You been around here long?
As some around here say, You Can't hide money.
I am not sure at all since I never built a ground up bike motor but, I would think the supercharger route is about as fare a deal as most other options. I have been around a few auto motors being worked on (my last one is in my 68 Mustang and is well over 435hp to the ground and better part of 500ft lbs of torque) the motor alone ran my a few dollars over $5,000 wife is still pissing a fit over it and it was finished 6 years ago.
Projects can be a huge amount of pleasure and I hope whatever direction you head with your need for speed you have a wonderful ride and find what you looking for. Good luck.
Matt
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 83GS550 93XR650L TARD! 97WR250 99ValkyrieI/S Tri-tone 01YZ125(x2) 05DRZ-125
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Thunderbolt
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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2011, 02:59:12 AM » |
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Lots more power and no modifications to tinker with.
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Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005
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Posts: 13833
American by Birth, Southern by the Grace of God.
Beautiful east Tennessee ( GOD'S Country )
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2011, 03:25:21 AM » |
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" How do I get alot more power? "
" Any ideas? "
Just throw money at it $$$$$$$
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 I've seen alot of people that thought they were cool , but then again Lord I've seen alot of fools.
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Jack
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Posts: 1889
VRCC# 3099, 1999 Valk Standard, 2006 Rocket 3
Benton, Arkansas
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2011, 04:44:22 AM » |
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Buy a Rocket III 
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"It takes a certain kind of nut to ride a motorcycle, and I am that motorcycle nut," Lyle Grimes, RIP August 2009.  
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sailed2japan
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2011, 06:03:32 AM » |
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I'm barely tall enough to ride a valk, never mind the wider, taller Rocket III, trust me I tried and it's a weird position for me. I guess i phrased my title kinda wrong. I'm wanting to get a decent boost, not an insane amount. i was looking at supercharging and fuel injecting my bike. I think that I would wind up with 6-7K in it by the time that was done. I'm really just wanting to add more power than what pipes and stuf will do. Has anyone injected and tested a Valk for performance?
I was looking around for ways to improve upon the OEM intake, but it seems everyone has something to say against every mod I've seen.
The other thing is I want to get my engine and transmission panted red. I figured if I could get a second drive line, tear it down, beef it up, paint it and install it.
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Misfit
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2011, 06:23:59 AM » |
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Nitros?
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If you're lucky enough to ride a Valkyrie, you're lucky enough. 
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Scott in Ok
Chief Worker Ant
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Posts: 1157
Oklahoma City, Ok
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2011, 06:54:31 AM » |
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I think the consenus is that Fuel Injection alone won't gain you much HP, certainly not enough to justify the cost of fabricating a custom setup that will work. You'll likely blow past the cost of a Supercharger kit, with nothing to show for it except the satisfaction of having a fuel Injected Valkyrie.
The blower is about the only way to get a significant gain.
-Scott
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!
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Attic Rat
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Posts: 446
VRCC # 1962
Tulsa, OK
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2011, 07:58:46 AM » |
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I have modified several valkyires that really run very well and did not change the fuel milage. Just finished an interstate and from NC and it carried the from wheel thru three gears just like all the other ones that I have done.
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The Attic Rat Performance Works
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Master Blaster
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2011, 08:18:32 AM » |
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Agree with the ZX14 or Busa. ZX has better ergos. With either and normal tweeks, you will be pushing reliable 200 Hp, and have a 200 MPH capable machine. Keep the Valk for what it is, and get your lust for speed massaged with one of these for about the same price. Now if you dont want to go quite that extreme, a Concours 1400 is a good choice, and gives you touring capability too. As noted, modifing for power & speed = $$$$, and - in reliabality usually.
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"Nothing screams bad craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape."
Gun controll is not about guns, its about CONTROLL.
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Stitch_in_La
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2011, 11:00:10 AM » |
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Rat, What sort of mods, blower efi?
Chuck
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sailed2japan
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2011, 02:34:22 PM » |
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Attic rat - What's the total cost of doing a supercharger? I know it's far from a plug and play. What are you using to retard the timing? Are the kits still coming with the m45 or have they started using the newer r900?
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Attic Rat
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Posts: 446
VRCC # 1962
Tulsa, OK
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2011, 03:18:50 PM » |
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I have been doing some head work porting, polishing and milling the heads . This raises the compression and really wakes the big girls up the cost starts about 1/3 of what a super charger would be. My standard fee starts at 1,500.00 and up depending on what we need to do. For a complete list of what we do send me an email and I will send you a list.
Thanks, Bob
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The Attic Rat Performance Works
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Tropic traveler
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Posts: 3117
Livin' the Valk, er, F6B life in Central Florida.
Silver Springs, Florida
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2011, 07:32:23 PM » |
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I would agree with The Attic Rat on the mods to add some pop to the Valk motor. What he is suggesting are the tried & true hot rodder tricks that people have been doing to car engines for decades. The Valk has a low compression ratio just begging to be increased for some more power. I haven't looked at the head castings of a Valk motor but I'm sure some port work & valve unshrouding would do wonders. I have read about hotter cams being made for the Valk, haven't researched it but I'm sure someome somewhere could make any custom grind you would want. Rejet the carbs, add a free flowing air filter & exhaust system along with a more aggressive ICM and you would have the Valk answer to the "Screaming Eagle" kits that HD sells for their bikes. I think a 25-30 HP increase would be easily attainable w/o too much loss of rideability... but fuel mileage would suck! If you planned on turning up the RPM along with the HP mods I would suggest forged pistons to replace the stockers which I think are cast. If you just want to add a nitrous kit I would not suggest any milling of the heads to up the compression ratio, the stock low ratio the Valk has is perfect for a nitrous set up. The Valk engine is VERY reliable & overbuilt. It has a ton of HP potential left untapped in stock form, that's why they are capable of crazy high miles w/o needing any rebuilds. I too used to have a Rocket 3 & those things are a BLAST to ride. When I crunched the numbers on the Valk & R3 for a comparison the Valk looks just as impressive as the R3. It is 67% the displacement of the R3 & makes nearly 67% the HP & torque of the R3 while delivering the power in a much smoother way. I see where your thinking is & it sounds doable. The extra engine to rebuild sounds like the perfect way to go with some cool hot-rodder mods!
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'13 F6B black-the real new Valkyrie Tourer '13 F6B red for Kim '97 Valkyrie Tourer r&w, OLDFRT's ride now! '98 Valkyrie Tourer burgundy & cream traded for Kim's F6B '05 SS 750 traded for Kim's F6B '99 Valkyrie black & silver Tourer, traded in on my F6B '05 Triumph R3 gone but not forgotten!
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musclehead
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2011, 08:18:21 PM » |
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nothing draws a crowd of valk riders like a super charged valk. alot more power will mean alot more cash, but you will pass everything except a gas station 
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'in the tunnels uptown, the Rats own dream guns him down. the shots echo down them hallways in the night' - the Boss
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sailed2japan
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2011, 12:47:30 PM » |
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I guess that the best way to put it is that I'm looking for power on a daily basis. I don't wnat anything super crazy like NOS. I also don't want to start getting 20 mpg's. I'd love a blower, but I'm not seeing that in my future until I come back from my next deployment. This season I really want to get an interstate tank on, wheels, 20-40% hp gain (bone stock now), and so many LED's that people will think they just got passed by a shooting star at night.
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tank_post142
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2011, 12:52:12 PM » |
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this engine is pretty much tweeked to start with. a little timing, carb work, port polishing, etc you can pick up maybe 7-10 Hp. but other than that it's $$$$$$ time.
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I got a rock  VRCCDS0246 
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BnB Tom
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Posts: 1708
Where'd old times go?
Frisco, TX
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« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2011, 05:24:51 AM » |
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Get elected President. Then you can "MANDATE" more power.
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Momz
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« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2011, 06:00:09 AM » |
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You could start by removeing as much weight as possible. Drill holes in things like the rear caliper mount, remove the rear seat, back rest/sissy bar, use LED turn signals, VTX-C front fender, remove the crash-bars, install I/S carb springs, an I/S ECM, and do an ECT Mod. Supertrapp makes a lightweight tunable exhaust.
Remember,...there are options that do not effect the reliability of this motor and are proven to increase the torque curve. Also Dyno tuning is invalueble in directing your search for proper carb jetting.
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 10:38:50 AM by Momz »
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 ALWAYS QUESTION AUTHORITY! 97 Valk bobber, 98 Valk Rat Rod, 2K SuperValk, plus several other classic bikes
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~ Timbrwolf
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« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2011, 06:14:41 AM » |
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. . ......paint it black .. 
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. . . ...I saw a werewolf at Trader Vics. . . ...his hair was perfect...
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Titan
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Posts: 819
BikeLess
Lexington, SC
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« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2011, 06:22:36 AM » |
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OK. Time for me to jump in here with a little ignorance and a stupid question or two.  I guess I have an ego as big as anybody else's and love powerful engines.  But, where the Valk is concerned, I pretty much don't get why anyone would want to spend a lot of money on it to get a few more horses out of it. Unless... unless if you're going to run it on a drag strip or even matches on the street. My point is, in my case, I find the thing to already be so powerful and responsive that it does about all one could expect a bike of it's size to do except in racing scenarios. And even in most on-the-street drags it's going to take most anything you run up against, except the ones that you already know it won't run with like the Busas and the big Triumph. Other than racing, adding a few more horses would be good for bragging when you're hanging around with people with lesser bikes and you can already do plenty of that! So, seems to me that if it's not powerful enough to outrun anything you come up against it would make more sense to just go buy a Busa and be done with it. Run the amazing Valk as the most awesome cruiser on the planet and enjoy it as it's built. But that's just me... and I'm old.  The stupid question is... is there a lot of folks who would spend a lot of money to modify the engine just for the hell of it?
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BnB Tom
Member
    
Posts: 1708
Where'd old times go?
Frisco, TX
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« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2011, 07:26:11 AM » |
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Just like it used to be when I was a kid. . . a lot of us like to make our ride a little different - be it a car or a bike - - paint, chrome or speed.  And. To most of us, our Valk is sort of our toy/hobby (and of course FUN transpo). That being said, whats better than tinkering.. whether its to shine up what we've got, add to the bling or figure out if Interstate carb springs and a trigger wheel actually make it faster.  Oh, and of course, the "MY DOG'S BIGGER THAN YOUR DOG" definitely comes in to play when all of us Valkers get together.  Showing off what we've got whether its horse power or bling is just sorta the way it is.. So, DO iT TO IT and have fun doing it!! 
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Jess Tolbirt
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« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2011, 07:29:49 AM » |
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instead of polishing the intakes, you should rough them up and polish the exhaust... we used to polish the intake on my old race cars and then we got to thinking,, if we roughed them up then the gas would atomize a lot better,,sure nuff,,,my butt dyno could feel the difference,,,
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Titan
Member
    
Posts: 819
BikeLess
Lexington, SC
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« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2011, 09:21:33 AM » |
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Just like it used to be when I was a kid. . . a lot of us like to make our ride a little different - be it a car or a bike - - paint, chrome or speed.  And. To most of us, our Valk is sort of our toy/hobby (and of course FUN transpo). That being said, whats better than tinkering.. whether its to shine up what we've got, add to the bling or figure out if Interstate carb springs and a trigger wheel actually make it faster.  Oh, and of course, the "MY DOG'S BIGGER THAN YOUR DOG" definitely comes in to play when all of us Valkers get together.  Showing off what we've got whether its horse power or bling is just sorta the way it is.. So, DO iT TO IT and have fun doing it!!  Yep. Of course you're absolutely right. And I even talked to a friend of mine who builds racing bikes about putting a simple, low priced nitrous kit on mine. So, I'm really no different than anyone else and don't mind spending money on it. But I got to thinking about just what all you could really get from spending several thousand dollars unless you could race it. And it sure would be fun to pull up to a group of bikes of any brand and show off a blown Valk! I'm just musing. Pay me no attention. MAybe it's really old age kicking in hard this morning! 
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Fathertime
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« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2011, 11:14:59 AM » |
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Talking about busa and NOS I ran into a busa with three tanks on it at americade friday. My non gearhead question would be: can somebody explain how Nos actually works?
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R J
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Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2011, 12:43:21 PM » |
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instead of polishing the intakes, you should rough them up and polish the exhaust... we used to polish the intake on my old race cars and then we got to thinking,, if we roughed them up then the gas would atomize a lot better,,sure nuff,,,my butt dyno could feel the difference,,,
Jess, you said exactly what I did about roughing them up, and got laughed out of the ball park. But I know for a fact it helps. We had all of our circle burners roughed up. Took many poles and won a lot of races also.
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44 Harley ServiCar 
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tank_post142
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« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2011, 01:02:48 PM » |
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exactly the opposite with intakes of less that 8 inches
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I got a rock  VRCCDS0246 
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Dogg
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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2011, 09:16:45 PM » |
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with a blower, the inside of the intake needs to be rough. cant polish the inside without alot of trouble. besides, atomization is a neccessity with a blower. shaving heads is ok if you arent going to supercharge it. hot cams will not work either since there wont be enough clearence for the valves. a 20 shot(about $100) and a blower will give you about 60hp.thats a big step. forged pistons is mandatory of you do ANY internal mods, or NOS (bigger than a 20 shot in my opinion only). mine is special. I had some super smart machinist friends who race everything from RX7's to drag bikes. I drag raced almost all my life and even broke 7 seconds on an old 8 vlave suzuki. I did the opposite from alley rat. decking is old school, low tech(not dis'in ya sir, just making a point) I used a .369 copper plate head gasket with 8.5 to 1 forged flat top pistons. the m45 I use has been modded and uses a 3 vain roller instead of the normal 2 vain roller. I also have special made pulleys I can used depending on whether i used the NOS or not. I have a 150 wetshot but dont use it unless someone brings it hard.  Ive been talkin to bill at magnacharger about an upgrade to an m60 but, not sure how im going to do this. also been on the phone and emails with eaton. tying to figure the best way to upgrade with still saving myself a few bucks. Im also running a massive 50mm kiehn round slide carb but, it runs out of fuel at 6000 rpm. cant keep up. going to a lectron next to see if it wil be better, or at least satisfy my hunger for speed than having to spend the stpid cash on upgrading to an m60. There are many possibilities out there. most of it will have to be made. bolt on stuff like blowers is ok, fuel injection is a plus. there is a company that will making a tbi setup for you for around 500$ and it WILL give you more hp, better fuel mileage. Ive been reading on the distributor conversion and feel that that is the way to go. my next move for my bike is that for sure. plus cool factor is thru the roof. Good luck in your decisions. building a custom high hp valk aint easy nor is it cheap. but its only money and you kids will never appriciate it like you do so spend it. 
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Mosa
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« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2011, 03:34:16 AM » |
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For the Valk... Blower, Mario Gears, and Nitrous... but ya gotta do motor work while doin that... ya gotta put in forged pistons ( overbore em while yer at it...) better valvesprings, and then ya gotta ensure the drivetrain can handle the torque, so double clutchsprings, and upgrade that drive yoke they talkin about on the tech board... oh, and I agree 100% about roughing up the intakes... but,... all that tinkerin will cost ya time, $$ and it changes the bike from a 'leg over an go' daily rider to a 'tinker and tweak all the time' kinda bike... (BTW, its my bike thats on the pictoral 'how to' for tranny gears and blower install... me an JeffK did it in his garage)
Get a Boss Hoss 502 for power... get a Busa for top speed.... Get a FJR for mix of distance and twisty/mountains... leave the Valk for what she is...
my 2c .... been there, done that...
Mosa
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Jess Tolbirt
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« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2011, 05:24:37 PM » |
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SQUARE SLIDE LECTRONS!!!! yea Baby!!!!
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YoungPUP
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« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2011, 06:13:26 PM » |
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Did some bench building the other nite. How about a Buick Grand National 3.8L turbo motor on a boss hoss chassis.... 
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Yea though I ride through the valley of the Shadow of Death I shall fear no evil. For I ride the Baddest Mother F$#^er In that valley!
99 STD (Under construction)
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Jeff K
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« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2011, 06:36:48 PM » |
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Talking about busa and NOS I ran into a busa with three tanks on it at americade friday. My non gearhead question would be: can somebody explain how Nos actually works?
To put in VERY basic terms The O in NOS is oxygen So by spraying NOS you get more oxygen to burn more fuel. Just like a supercharger does, provide more are to burn more fuel.
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Dogg
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« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2011, 08:31:13 PM » |
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DO NOT bore the cylinders!!! I did, weakens the headgasket between cylinders. weakens the cylinders walls. forged pistons is a must. carillo makes H-beam rods, perfect circle roller bearings, double valve springs, get some custom cams made, barillo lockup racing clutch, upgrade u joint, lower center of gravity, blower(pref the new m60 with the 390 cfm 4 barrell bill is working on(or get with dynatek and use thier tbi fuel system), polish exhaust ports, 3 angle on the valves, belray or royal purple syn oil, k&n filter, mr gasket pressure regulator, upgrade to walbro electric fuel pump, make a few pulleys in 1/8 inch increments, double up on the radiator fans, oil cooler, MSD ignition with sort sort of distributor for MUCH more sparking power, iridium plugs, 8.5 mm wires(custom make) and then you will be on your way to 220 hp. add a 150 wetshot and gain another 80 to give ya 300 if you dont blow the heads off. cost for all of this....... $15,000.00 plus some change... your choice. then ya gotta do something with the REST of the bike... 
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« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 08:32:51 PM by Dogg »
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RoadKill
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« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2011, 08:42:37 PM » |
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DO NOT bore the cylinders!!! I did, weakens the headgasket between cylinders. weakens the cylinders walls. forged pistons is a must. carillo makes H-beam rods, perfect circle roller bearings, double valve springs, get some custom cams made, barillo lockup racing clutch, upgrade u joint, lower center of gravity, blower(pref the new m60 with the 390 cfm 4 barrell bill is working on(or get with dynatek and use thier tbi fuel system), polish exhaust ports, 3 angle on the valves, belray or royal purple syn oil, k&n filter, mr gasket pressure regulator, upgrade to walbro electric fuel pump, make a few pulleys in 1/8 inch increments, double up on the radiator fans, oil cooler, MSD ignition with sort sort of distributor for MUCH more sparking power, iridium plugs, 8.5 mm wires(custom make) and then you will be on your way to 220 hp. add a 150 wetshot and gain another 80 to give ya 300 if you dont blow the heads off. cost for all of this....... $15,000.00 plus some change... your choice. then ya gotta do something with the REST of the bike...  By my math you bored 120 thousandth...5mm per hole! DAYUM ! any heating issues ?
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Dogg
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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2011, 08:56:36 PM » |
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no, not really. on a hot day, im running 240. normal day in the 80's she runs 215, 220...
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sailed2japan
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« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2011, 01:34:59 PM » |
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DOGG, did you only over bore the cylinders and not stroke out the motor at all? I was thinking of finding a way to stroke the motor some. Have you looked into this at all?
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sailed2japan
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« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2011, 08:51:11 AM » |
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So I just got done crunching some numbers and If I can get the motor bored 2mm over and stroked 6mm for a final bore x stroke of 73mm x 70mm, I would have a 1758cc motor with a compression ratio of 11.35:1, which should still be good on 91 octane. or I could do the stroke 4mm over for 73mm x 68mm and have a 1708cc motor with 11.02:1 compression.
Opinions? Disagreements? Double check my figures?
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Bobbo
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« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2011, 09:03:34 AM » |
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So I just got done crunching some numbers and If I can get the motor bored 2mm over and stroked 6mm for a final bore x stroke of 73mm x 70mm, I would have a 1758cc motor with a compression ratio of 11.35:1, which should still be good on 91 octane. or I could do the stroke 4mm over for 73mm x 68mm and have a 1708cc motor with 11.02:1 compression.
Opinions? Disagreements? Double check my figures?
You are talking about some elaborate fabrication to do the stroke. If you regrind the crank for that much stroke, it will be substantially weaker, and you would need to fab the connecting rods. $$$$ Also, where will you get 2mm over pistons? The cylinders don't have much extra meat to bore.
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sailed2japan
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« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2011, 12:44:38 PM » |
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It is my understanding that Dogg bored his 5mm over, and he's running boost. As far as the crank, it is all yet to be determined. I've never done a custom ground crank, but it seems to me that for every 1mm you take off, you'd get 2mm more stroke because the piston would be 1mm lower at the bottom of the stroke and 1mm higher at the top.
Am I right on that?
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« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 12:55:06 PM by sailed2japan »
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