How do I get alot more power?

[Jess Tolbirt]

There is only one way to get more power that amounts to a hill of beans,, you have to do it like this one,, take a peek and that should give you some ideas,,,
http://www.jess2.com/custom

[Bobbo]

It is my understanding that Dogg bored his 5mm over, and he's running boost. As far as the crank, it is all yet to be determined. I've never done a custom ground crank, but it seems to me that for every 1mm you take off, you'd get 2mm more stroke because the piston would be 1mm lower at the bottom of the stroke and 1mm higher at the top.

Am I right on that?

You are correct.  The radius from the center of the main journal to the center of the crank journal is doubled to calculate the stroke.

Two ways to lengthen the stroke involve a regrind.  The simplest is to regrind the crank journal center farther away from the main journal.  This weakens the crank, since it removes a lot of material, and the new crank journal is substantially smaller than before.  A second way uses welding to add material to the crank journal before the regrind to keep the journal the same diameter.  In either case, you will need shorter connecting rods, or pistons with shorter distance from the wrist pin to the crown.  You might also need to shave the piston skirt if it interferes with the crank.

Unless you are a machinist with access to precision grinding lathes and equipment, or just like to lay out big bucks, I wouldn't recommend stroking a Valkyrie engine.

[The Anvil]

Yeah If I were gonna get into machine work I'd shave the deck to bump compression first before messing with the crank. How about cams? Anyone make cams for the Valk?

[Bobbo]

Yeah If I were gonna get into machine work I'd shave the deck to bump compression first before messing with the crank. How about cams? Anyone make cams for the Valk?

You can do that, but need to be aware of valve/piston clearance.  I'm not sure how much you can take off without needing to lash the piston crown, especially when a higher lift cam is used.

There were a few cam regrinds available, but only claimed 4 to 5 HP increase.  Not much for the expense and trouble.  Some joked that it sounded like 45 HP when talking to the manufacturer over the phone!   

[98valk]

instead of polishing the intakes, you should rough them up and polish the exhaust...
we used to polish the intake on my old race cars and then we got to thinking,, if we roughed them up then the gas would atomize a lot better,,sure nuff,,,my butt dyno could feel the difference,,,

for a 4 barrel dual plane or single plane intake for street use u are correct,
but not for an individual runner carb system what the valkyrie has, as do inline engines which like polished intakes. The valkyrie likes 400 grit, with 80 grit on the short radius.

polishing the exhaust always works.

[98valk]

I'm barely tall enough to ride a valk, never mind the wider, taller Rocket III, trust me I tried and it's a weird position for me. I guess i phrased my title kinda wrong. I'm wanting to get a decent boost, not an insane amount. i was looking at supercharging and fuel injecting my bike. I think that I would wind up with 6-7K in it by the time that was done. I'm really just wanting to add more power than what pipes and stuf will do. Has anyone injected and tested a Valk for performance?

I was looking around for ways to improve upon the OEM intake, but it seems everyone has something to say against every mod I've seen.


The other thing is I want to get my engine and transmission panted red. I figured if I could get a second drive line, tear it down, beef it up, paint it and install it.

what type of power do u want?

0-60mph in 3 sec?
best 50-70 mph roll on speed?
0-100 mph?  case in point the first yr suzuki bandit 1200 was just as fast as the busa up to 100mph
0-200 mph?
12sec, 11 sec in the 1/4?

my airbox mods
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,8248.0.html

[The Anvil]

Yeah If I were gonna get into machine work I'd shave the deck to bump compression first before messing with the crank. How about cams? Anyone make cams for the Valk?

You can do that, but need to be aware of valve/piston clearance.  I'm not sure how much you can take off without needing to lash the piston crown, especially when a higher lift cam is used.

There were a few cam regrinds available, but only claimed 4 to 5 HP increase.  Not much for the expense and trouble.  Some joked that it sounded like 45 HP when talking to the manufacturer over the phone!   

Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring banana valve...

[thumper]

. . ......paint it black .. 

That was easy...and obvious!

[sailed2japan]

Well, my bike is already black, it came with that boost from the factory. I'm not trying to hit 200 hp or anything, but 150ish would be cool. There is no way I'm buying any sort of sport bike, also.

I just want to do something custom and have a power cruiser with a bit more power. Even if I don't get to 150hp, it's more the building and having something unique I like. Attic rat offered to do his tricks on my bike, but I'm a DIY kinda guy. I just wish I could find all the specs on the internals of the motor so I could try to match up to a piston and rod from another motor that would work. I think that having the crank welded up and ground down I can get done for under a grand. I think if I can buy the parts I need for under $2500 I'm going to jump on this project.

[Bobbo]

Well, my bike is already black, it came with that boost from the factory. I'm not trying to hit 200 hp or anything, but 150ish would be cool. There is no way I'm buying any sort of sport bike, also.

I just want to do something custom and have a power cruiser with a bit more power. Even if I don't get to 150hp, it's more the building and having something unique I like. Attic rat offered to do his tricks on my bike, but I'm a DIY kinda guy. I just wish I could find all the specs on the internals of the motor so I could try to match up to a piston and rod from another motor that would work. I think that having the crank welded up and ground down I can get done for under a grand. I think if I can buy the parts I need for under $2500 I'm going to jump on this project.

Please keep us updated with status reports including pictures if you decide to do it!   

[RP#62]

It depends on how much you want to spend.

[Jeff K]

Well, my bike is already black, it came with that boost from the factory. I'm not trying to hit 200 hp or anything, but 150ish would be cool. There is no way I'm buying any sort of sport bike, also.

I just want to do something custom and have a power cruiser with a bit more power. Even if I don't get to 150hp, it's more the building and having something unique I like. Attic rat offered to do his tricks on my bike, but I'm a DIY kinda guy. I just wish I could find all the specs on the internals of the motor so I could try to match up to a piston and rod from another motor that would work. I think that having the crank welded up and ground down I can get done for under a grand. I think if I can buy the parts I need for under $2500 I'm going to jump on this project.

I have a spare set of Carrilio rods that are .100 longer than stock.

[sailed2japan]

I think that would hinder my lean angles a little too much....

[sailed2japan]

I have a spare set of Carrilio rods that are .100 longer than stock.

How would those help? Just push the piston further up to boost compression?

[RoadKill]

Send me an 1800 wing motor and once I have it installed in my Valk  I will show you how to install another one into yours !  

send the whole drive train and I'll work out a few fitment issues and keep you posted.

[Bobbo]

I have a spare set of Carrilio rods that are .100 longer than stock.

How would those help? Just push the piston further up to boost compression?

Maybe enough to slap the heads!  

[Jeff K]

I have a spare set of Carrilio rods that are .100 longer than stock.

How would those help? Just push the piston further up to boost compression?

Well, for me they were built for pistons with a thicker deck, and the pins were moved down .100. You could stroke the crank and add the longer rods for more displacement. Don't know if it's feasible, but it sounded good.

[Bobbo]

I have a spare set of Carrilio rods that are .100 longer than stock.

How would those help? Just push the piston further up to boost compression?

Well, for me they were built for pistons with a thicker deck, and the pins were moved down .100. You could stroke the crank and add the longer rods for more displacement. Don't know if it's feasible, but it sounded good.

With a stroked crank, you need shorter rods without other mods. 

[Jeff K]

I have a spare set of Carrilio rods that are .100 longer than stock.

How would those help? Just push the piston further up to boost compression?

Well, for me they were built for pistons with a thicker deck, and the pins were moved down .100. You could stroke the crank and add the longer rods for more displacement. Don't know if it's feasible, but it sounded good.

With a stroked crank, you need shorter rods without other mods. 

They suggest longer or stock lenght depending on the rod angle. I didn't see anything that said shorter. That could pull the piston out of the bottom of the bore.
"Longer rods are often required to increase leverage and minimize the high degree of rod angularity created by the increase in stroke."

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/09/stroker/

[Bobbo]

I have a spare set of Carrilio rods that are .100 longer than stock.

How would those help? Just push the piston further up to boost compression?

Well, for me they were built for pistons with a thicker deck, and the pins were moved down .100. You could stroke the crank and add the longer rods for more displacement. Don't know if it's feasible, but it sounded good.

With a stroked crank, you need shorter rods without other mods.  

They suggest longer or stock lenght depending on the rod angle. I didn't see anything that said shorter. That could pull the piston out of the bottom of the bore.
"Longer rods are often required to increase leverage and minimize the high degree of rod angularity created by the increase in stroke."

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/09/stroker/

If you look at the illustrations, you will see a shorter distance between the wrist pin and crown on the longer rod/stroke piston (Decreased Piston Compression Height (distance between A and B)).  That is what I meant by other mods.  If you use the stock piston, a shorter rod is needed unless you have enough clearance to extend the piston into the combustion chamber.

And yes, you have to be careful that you have enough support in the lower cylinder, as well as skirt to crank clearance.

[sailed2japan]

So what I have gathered from that link is that I need to be sure my rod ratio is over 1.5:1, idealy 1.65-1.8:1. This was already a concern of mine, but I had no numbers to use for reference until now. I have been looking over the internet to try and find the stock rod length and compression height for our motors and haven't had any luck yet. Does any one have internals they can measure or know these numbers?

I'd like to find a balance between increased stroke and lowered compression height to utilize stock rods, one less custom part to design and buy. I've also decided I'll go with a 74mm bore and utilize stock GL1800 rings.

[Stude]

A good rule of thumb  STOCK is best by test... but if you want to run fast & quick
remember " if it craps quick, it won't crap for long " something will always fail.

 

[Dogg]

careful with boring...ive gone as far as I could without popping a head gasket. i switched to copper plate because if give me more clearence up top allowing my cams to do their job, plus, I am running flat tops made by J&E. bottom end is bulletproof. I wouldnt reccomend messing with it.
 You want 150? IS springs, dyna ignition, 110 mains, 38 pilots, a tunable exhaust, 4 degree trigger wheel and some octane boost will give you about a buck 20. get a blower instead of the carb updates and get 150. talk to bill at magnacharger about an m60 with a 4 barrell carb to get maybe 180. take the bottom end down without a machinist knowing EXACTLY what he is doing is unadvisable..... good luck keep us posted...

[Bobbo]

I'd like to find a balance between increased stroke and lowered compression height to utilize stock rods, one less custom part to design and buy. I've also decided I'll go with a 74mm bore and utilize stock GL1800 rings.

You will have to find a piston with the same reduction in pin to crown measurement (compression height), as your increase in the stroke radius.  You will also need to measure the skirt to crank clearance, as the piston will extend into the crankcase more with increased stroke.

[sailed2japan]

I'm looking at these two companies for custom parts:

http://www.edscrankshafts.com/

http://www.ariaspistons.com/index.html

Both seem to be plenty experienced and capable of getting the job done right.

Dogg, what application are the pistons you used intended for? I've noticed that a trx300 piston may work, but have no numbers to compare.

[sailed2japan]

So does any one know any of the internal stats on the Valk? I  need to know the compression hieght, rod length, deck hieght, cumbustion chamber volume and if possible gasket thickness.

[Dogg]

i ordered mine through J&E. called them, gave them specs, then, i sent the cylinders to them and they matched a set for me. to my liking. the cylinders were on their way home anyway so i just had them make a slight detour. only thing i did to my bottom end was roller bearings. thants it. I get 8400 rpm out of her and she still makes hp.

[sailed2japan]

I've come up with another company called Marine Cranks that was recommended to me to do a custom crank. the guy who recommended them had them do a hyabusa crankwelded up and offset ground. He has it in a drag bike that he's done alot of runs in and never had any trouble. They also do CNC cranks for a pretty penny.

[suthrncop]

careful with boring...ive gone as far as I could without popping a head gasket. i switched to copper plate because if give me more clearence up top allowing my cams to do their job, plus, I am running flat tops made by J&E. bottom end is bulletproof. I wouldnt reccomend messing with it.
 You want 150? IS springs, dyna ignition, 110 mains, 38 pilots, a tunable exhaust, 4 degree trigger wheel and some octane boost will give you about a buck 20. get a blower instead of the carb updates and get 150. talk to bill at magnacharger about an m60 with a 4 barrell carb to get maybe 180. take the bottom end down without a machinist knowing EXACTLY what he is doing is unadvisable..... good luck keep us posted...

you have peaked my interest now....I wouldn't mind bumping mine up to about 120....I have a few of those mods already...mainly missing the mains and the trigger wheel and IS springs...I have a dyna but didn't think you could use a 4 trigger wheel with it....

[Chrisj CMA]

I think the best way to get more power is to go out and buy a cheap used 250 rebel or similar bike.  Ride that thing for a few months and get real used to it.  Take all the money you saved on gas and buy some safety chrome for the Valkyrie.

After six months on the skeeter bike you get on the Valkyrie and you will be scared to crank the throttle. 

Repeat everytime you get too used to the valks power.   

[98valk]

just use a smaller Dia rear car tire. this will greatly increase the 0-70 times.

[YoungPUP]

In regards to the head gasket isssue when boring the block, would the block accept o-rings and studs
 like the diesel guys are running?

[RoadKill]

You can buy a stupid fast crotch rocket for a lot less money than a super charger....Graft an 1800 into the Valk and give it a sniff of Nos if ya want to be different !   

[Jeff K]

In regards to the head gasket isssue when boring the block, would the block accept o-rings and studs
 like the diesel guys are running?

Valks don't have a deck like a regular engine block. not much material to put an O ring into.

[Stude]

 But I have done a few cars in my day... I was wondering if the head gaskets for a Valkyrie have a groove that will crush when the head s are torqued. If so a trick I used was laying .014" armature
wire in that groove and touch end to end when laid in the groove use gasket tack or clear nail polish to hold it in place till the heads are torqued. Worked like a charm on my 340 Cuda that had 12:1 pistons in.

In regards to the head gasket isssue when boring the block, would the block accept o-rings and studs
 like the diesel guys are running?

Valks don't have a deck like a regular engine block. not much material to put an O ring into.

[Stude]

 Adding to what I said above I found a picture of a valkyrie head gasket and it does not have a groove. So that idea wont work

[Dogg]

careful with boring...ive gone as far as I could without popping a head gasket. i switched to copper plate because if give me more clearence up top allowing my cams to do their job, plus, I am running flat tops made by J&E. bottom end is bulletproof. I wouldnt reccomend messing with it.
 You want 150? IS springs, dyna ignition, 110 mains, 38 pilots, a tunable exhaust, 4 degree trigger wheel and some octane boost will give you about a buck 20. get a blower instead of the carb updates and get 150. talk to bill at magnacharger about an m60 with a 4 barrell carb to get maybe 180. take the bottom end down without a machinist knowing EXACTLY what he is doing is unadvisable..... good luck keep us posted...

you have peaked my interest now....I wouldn't mind bumping mine up to about 120....I have a few of those mods already...mainly missing the mains and the trigger wheel and IS springs...I have a dyna but didn't think you could use a 4 trigger wheel with it....

i modified my original trigger wheel. gives me 4 degree. works like a charm. tuff starting when cold but otherwise, just fine

[Jeff K]

careful with boring...ive gone as far as I could without popping a head gasket. i switched to copper plate because if give me more clearence up top allowing my cams to do their job, plus, I am running flat tops made by J&E. bottom end is bulletproof. I wouldnt reccomend messing with it.
 You want 150? IS springs, dyna ignition, 110 mains, 38 pilots, a tunable exhaust, 4 degree trigger wheel and some octane boost will give you about a buck 20. get a blower instead of the carb updates and get 150. talk to bill at magnacharger about an m60 with a 4 barrell carb to get maybe 180. take the bottom end down without a machinist knowing EXACTLY what he is doing is unadvisable..... good luck keep us posted...

you have peaked my interest now....I wouldn't mind bumping mine up to about 120....I have a few of those mods already...mainly missing the mains and the trigger wheel and IS springs...I have a dyna but didn't think you could use a 4 trigger wheel with it....

i modified my original trigger wheel. gives me 4 degree. works like a charm. tuff starting when cold but otherwise, just fine

You are running +4 degrees with a supercharger? Really? It should be rattling like a can of marbles under boost.