Tire brand, mix or not ??

[Sonny]

I have been running Avon tires for many years on my Valk.  Problem is I do not get good milage out of them. I decided to go to a car tire on the back. But changed my mind. (I do that a lot)
The bike for some reason has always seemed a little unstable, but not realy bad.
Any way I still have the Avon on the front but now have a Metzler MD880 200/60R16 on ther rear.
The bike is even more unstable now than with the worn out Avon on the back.
It is down right squirly.  Bad enough I would not let someone else ride it.
What else could it be?  Rear wheel bearings were good, swing are seemed tight.
I can't feel any play in the front bearings or triple tree?

With the Michigan ride coming soon it will have to be fixed, I would not ride it that far like it is !!!

Has anyone else had these issues and what did you find wrong ?????

[Bone]

How about your shocks ?

[doubletee]

How about your shocks ?

... and the shock bushings?

[98valk]

replace rear shock upper bushings. OEM only last 10-15k miles.

[The Anvil]

Uh, I have Avon's on mine with about 5000 miles on them. It's rock stable and has been since they were new. I don't even need to hold the bars, it's like a cruise missile. I'm thinking you have a secondary issue here like worn bushings or bearings in there somewhere. Shock, swingarm, wheel, steering head etc...

Edit: I just realized your brands are mixed (it's in the title, duh) and that can cause instability, however it's typically more a byproduct of mixing types (radial with bias ply) than mixing brands. Radial to radial or bias to bias dry weather handling is usually not adversely affected. So I'd personally rule out other mechanical issues first. If everything else check out then take a hard look at the rubber.

[Daniel Meyer]

Brand mixing shouldn't cause what you are describing. Something is off. What pressures are you running? I'd go with 40 front, 45 rear on mc tires...

After pressure, shock bushings, head bearings (too tight/worn causes instability/hunting), swing arm bearings...

[fudgie]

Take your front wheel off and check your steering bearings. Cant get a good feel with the weight of the tire on there.

[old2soon]

When you changed out the rear tire did you follow the tightening torquing sequence?? Get that sequence wrong and it can create a problem. RIDE SAFE.

[Sonny]

She is on the jack now.  Both tires are radials. Front tire is worn but not bad. I'm going to take the front tire off first its easier and check the fork bearings.

Right now the rear has 43-psi and front has 40.

Has any one else put 200 rear on instead of the 180?  It makes me wonder if the 200 rear has a lower weight rating than the original.

[Challenger]

I ran a Metz 200 on my STD and didn't notice much if any difference between it and the Avons, rock solid, but it only lasted 5000 miles. 

[The Anvil]

In theory a 200 section tire will be pinched more by the wider wheel causing the tread to narrow. Of course tires vary in construction and size and one brand's 200 is another brand's 190 or 180 etc. Personally I wouldn't use the wider tire unless forced to for some reason.

[Sonny]

Checked rear shock bushings, good shape.  Swing arm is smooth up and down with not play.  Axle is torked properly.

Now have the front tire off.  Will check wheel bearings and then check the steering bearings.  If nothing is found I'm going to be pi***d.

[Motse]

I have an Avon i ft and a Metzler on the rear and it actually hadles better witout that shortlived Avon on the rear

[N0tac0p]

my lady was giving me some hints something was wrong, a wobble in a turn, front end not holding straight during braking, etc.  i checked the air pressure in both tires, stealer told me orig had 48 in rear, 42 in front, both were about 25 (whew gotta check it more often), brought back to pressure, handling nice once again.

[The Anvil]

Checked rear shock bushings, good shape.  Swing arm is smooth up and down with not play.  Axle is torked properly.

Now have the front tire off.  Will check wheel bearings and then check the steering bearings.  If nothing is found I'm going to be pi***d.

That's all stuff that should be done from time to time anyway so don't be pissed.

[Tx Bohemian]

This probably isn't much help but:

I have a new Metz 200 on the rear (<500 miles) and a half-worn Dunlop on the front of my '99 Standard and run 35psi in both.  Since I installed the 200 the bike seems noticibly more stable.  Not that it was bad at all with the old worn 180 rear.

I know the Valk has unique characteristics but I wouldn't think the different brands have anything to do with your issue. At least it dosen't affect mine.

Is the direction of the rear tire correct?  Could it be possible you got a bad tire? 

[Sonny]

Took the entire front end apart last night. For a 99 with close to 50,000 miles evrything is in much better condition than I expected. Going to put it back together this evening. Change rear tire pressure to 45 or 46-psi and see what happens.

[MP]

You say you kept the front avon?  How many miles? How worn?  If brand new rear, and a somewhat worn out front tire, that could be the problem.

Many have said how much better their bike handled when they put a new front tire on.  That may be the problem.

MP

[Sonny]

Got it all back together last night.  Pouring rain this morning have to wait till later today to give it a test ride.

[JetDriver]

Axle is torked properly.

Torquing the axle is only part of the sequence.  The 4 nuts from the pumpkin to the drive shaft need to be loose when the axle nut is torqued down, then tighten the 4 nuts.  This order is important.

[Ricky-D]

You say you kept the front avon?  How many miles? How worn?  If brand new rear, and a somewhat worn out front tire, that could be the problem.

Many have said how much better their bike handled when they put a new front tire on.  That may be the problem.

MP

MP's got it right. The front tire and it's condition is the largest reasons for poor handling qualities. The rear tire has got little effect on handling issues.  I'm talking old tire versus new tires here, nothing else!

***

[ricoman]

looks like every opinion has been given about your problem except a direct answer to your initial question.
My opinion is that you should not mix brands/tread patterns on a bike. Yes, to the soon to be heard from DS guys, that includes car tires. I've read it all and don't agree. I am entitled to that opinion as the DS guys are entitled to theirs. I won't say you are wrong, only that it is not for me. Please spare me (and the rest) 1000 word essays on why a car tire is great. Those who like them can have them. Please don't sell the concept to those not interested.
A rear tire is at least equal to the front in effecting handling qualities. Thinking otherwise exhibits a lack of experience or understanding of the concept of handling.
If you seldom take a turn above walking speed you are likely to never notice the importance of the rear tire.

[JetDriver]

looks like every opinion has been given about your problem except a direct answer to your initial question.
My opinion is that you should not mix brands/tread patterns on a bike. Yes, to the soon to be heard from DS guys, that includes car tires. I've read it all and don't agree. I am entitled to that opinion as the DS guys are entitled to theirs. I won't say you are wrong, only that it is not for me. Please spare me (and the rest) 1000 word essays on why a car tire is great. Those who like them can have them. Please don't sell the concept to those not interested.
A rear tire is at least equal to the front in effecting handling qualities. Thinking otherwise exhibits a lack of experience or understanding of the concept of handling.
If you seldom take a turn above walking speed you are likely to never notice the importance of the rear tire.

Don't tell this guy about Smokin' Joe!

[MP]

looks like every opinion has been given about your problem except a direct answer to your initial question.
My opinion is that you should not mix brands/tread patterns on a bike. Yes, to the soon to be heard from DS guys, that includes car tires. I've read it all and don't agree. I am entitled to that opinion as the DS guys are entitled to theirs. I won't say you are wrong, only that it is not for me. Please spare me (and the rest) 1000 word essays on why a car tire is great. Those who like them can have them. Please don't sell the concept to those not interested.
A rear tire is at least equal to the front in effecting handling qualities. Thinking otherwise exhibits a lack of experience or understanding of the concept of handling.
If you seldom take a turn above walking speed you are likely to never notice the importance of the rear tire.

Don't tell this guy about Smokin' Joe!

Shhhhhhh!  Joe is our own secret weapon!  LOL   

MP

[Fla. Jim]

Don't know how your milage or handeling will be ...But on my original 98 valk with the 206 factory radials when the rear went at 5k miles I replaced it with a dunflop bias belt 160/16 and rode it hard till the front went then replaced that with another rear bias belt. Currently have a car tire radial on the rear and a and a bias belt dunlop rear on the front of my current 97. Have never had a problem with the mixing of any of those combinations myself. But I have not a mountain in sight or ride on a  track either. I do ride moderatly fast over various road types and have worn quite a bit of metal from my floor boards.

[98valk]

looks like every opinion has been given about your problem except a direct answer to your initial question.
My opinion is that you should not mix brands/tread patterns on a bike. Yes, to the soon to be heard from DS guys, that includes car tires. I've read it all and don't agree. I am entitled to that opinion as the DS guys are entitled to theirs. I won't say you are wrong, only that it is not for me. Please spare me (and the rest) 1000 word essays on why a car tire is great. Those who like them can have them. Please don't sell the concept to those not interested.
A rear tire is at least equal to the front in effecting handling qualities. Thinking otherwise exhibits a lack of experience or understanding of the concept of handling.
If you seldom take a turn above walking speed you are likely to never notice the importance of the rear tire.

and this is from a rider who lives in a state with only two curves. 

[ricoman]

and this is from a rider who lives in a state with only two curves. 
[/quote]






and they are both left handers,  best taken a 17 mph.

[The Anvil]

Don't know how your milage or handeling will be ...But on my original 98 valk with the 206 factory radials when the rear went at 5k miles I replaced it with a dunflop bias belt 160/16 and rode it hard till the front went then replaced that with another rear bias belt. Currently have a car tire radial on the rear and a and a bias belt dunlop rear on the front of my current 97. Have never had a problem with the mixing of any of those combinations myself. But I have not a mountain in sight or ride on a  track either. I do ride moderatly fast over various road types and have worn quite a bit of metal from my floor boards.

It does depend on the rider and to some degree the bike. I've heard of people mixing types with no ill effects but I've also heard horror stories. I guess you don't really know until you try it.

One thing I have noticed though is that the horror stories seem to be connected more with sport oriented bikes with the stiffer aluminum chassis designs.

[Sonny]

 I'm not sure why you would want to loosen the 4 nuts on the pumpkin not required to remove the rear wheel. Should be no reason for them change position. But after talking many people about the 200 I put on the back almost all of them said tire pressure needed to be increased. So set it 45.5-lbs. Then I took the whole front end off checking everything I could think of.  All the bearings are in excellent condition. Put it all back together Saturday morning after the rain stopped I took it out for trial run.  Much -much better.  I do agree it's got to have a new front tire. So that is happining this coming weekend.  Got to be ready for Michigan.

[Fla. Jim]

Sonny:
'I'm not sure why you would want to loosen the 4 nuts on the pumpkin not required to remove the rear wheel. Should be no reason for them change position."

That's what I thought also, even changed out 3-4 rears not doing it. Guess I was lucky. Was pointed out to me, by Mr. Life is a Road Meyers I believe, that in our manual it states to loosen the 4 nuts and tightnen after tourquing down the axle nut. The logic being that each time you tourque it down the splines "can" be tilted out of alignment just a tad. Which was explained as a reason some were wearing out their splines even though they were using appropriate grease and doing everything else correctly...I now loosen and retighten as dictated in the manual. Also Daq has given a blow by blow of one way of doing it correctly.                      http://www.valkyrienorway.com/RWRemoval.html

[Sonny]

Put a new front tire on today and took her for a ride !  Rides like a new one!

But as a causionary measure I will loosen the rear axle and the pumkin nuts and torqe them again just to be sure. Better safe than sorry.

Thanks again everone for the input. 

 ON THE ROAD AGAIN,,,