Lost a friend to suicide

[KW]

A friend and former colleague committed suicide last Thursday night, apparently distraught over his finances. Lot’s of rumors going around though. Who knows? All that’s certain is he ate a bullet.  He was in my profession and I knew and respected him for almost 20 years. He was my age, but for whatever reason had chosen not to retire early like many of us do. He was a lieutenant in our Department and our Master Weapons Instructor who recertified all the firearms trainers. We always went out to lunch together during re-cert week and spent some time talking when he was going to interview for the lieutenants job a few years back. He was a great guy, easy going, quick to joke and laugh. . . just a nice person. How many times have you heard that about someone who committed suicide though?  It seems such a common thread. When we went to war, he requested and was granted a waive-rights leave of absence so he could ‘sign up’ with Blackwater and go over to the sand. It was gusty because he wasn’t guarantied a job when he got back. He was patriotic to the core and spent a year over there training Iraqis. He leaves behind his bride of 29 years and two daughters. He lost his only son a few years back.  Both his parents are still alive.

It just sucks. . . and makes me want to puke. Sitting here tonight I just felt like venting a little. No orange lettering on this post. Thanks for listening. Please pray for his family. Peace

[BamaDrifter64]

His family and friends, including you, are in my prayers.  Went through a similar thing years ago.  Realized after time that committing suicide is the most selfish thing a person can do and is the coward's way out.  Nothing is so bad that you take your own life and leave your loved ones full of pain, guilt, questions and anger for the rest of their lives.  Be there for the family if you have a close relationship with them.

Dave

[tank_post142]

i've lost a few brothers that way my heart goes out to you and his family. Tank

[Jess from VA]

Sorry for your friend..... and for you.  Had a lifetime friend do the same ten years ago.  

Life can be tough, you have to be tougher, that's all.

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more.

[The Anvil]

That's awful.

I'm through judging people who take that road. When I was younger I saw it as the coward's way out. But as I've grown I've seen things. I can't imagine the despair that would cause someone to want to end it THAT badly and hope to never know it. Not a few pills too many cry for help, but an honest to goodness one-way ticket.

May your friend find peace.

[Bigdog]

My co-worker that I was partners on the job with did the same thing 2 yrs ago. We were on eve turn it was a tuesday, Everything was normal we worked together all shift (3-11).  No signs of anything, even looking back. He went home and shot hisself, has all of us wondering why?
Sorry for his family.................

[SDS]

It sucks.  I don't have anything to add, no words to say, nothing to utter to make you feel better.  I have experienced suicidal people, and people who have committed suicide.  I don't understand it and no matter my own experiences I cannot understand what you are going through tonight.  I have never known what to say in times like this.  Words just seem small and innapropriate.

Hang in there.  You and those affected by this are in my prayers tonight. 
SDS

[Devl]

Prayers for his family and friends from Mid-Michigan....RTaz & Devl

[¿spoom]

....snip....  Realized after time that committing suicide is the most selfish thing a person can do and is the coward's way out.  Nothing is so bad that you take your own life and leave your loved ones full of pain, guilt, questions and anger for the rest of their lives.  ...snip..Dave

BS-it only looks that way to those of us on the OUTSIDE. To commit suicide you only have to believe that there is nothing to live for, nothing good to look forward to, no value in drawing another breath. Those of us still here understand that, but if someone is sick enough (clinical depression, whatever) to believe it for just long enough to pull the trigger, it's over. We all make mistakes, and I firmly believe most suicides are mistakes. Sadly you can't come back from this mistake. If that were possible, I'm sure most folks would be glad to come back the next day and try life again for a while.

[RoadKill]

Anvil and ¿spoom  Share my outlook on these things....despair is a terrible thing. "Coulda,woulda,shoulda," haunts all that have been touched by such a terrible occurrence,but only because they do not know the hurt and despair that brings it. Be thankful that you can not empathize.
                                               

[Valkahuna]

So sorry to hear that.   I can only imagine what would make someone do that, and I hope that I never understand it.

I'll say a prayer for your friends family, and friends, which includes you as well KW.

[The Anvil]

Anvil and ¿spoom  Share my outlook on these things....despair is a terrible thing. "Coulda,woulda,shoulda," haunts all that have been touched by such a terrible occurrence,but only because they do not know the hurt and despair that brings it. Be thankful that you can not empathize.
                                               

That's what I mean when I said I'm through judging them. I was a much younger, much more naive person when I took that view. I know different now.

[bigfish_Oh]

So sorry to hear that, I have trouble dealing with normal events.



   The house we are in is the second house in a row that my wife bought that they previous owner committed suicide.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

....snip....  Realized after time that committing suicide is the most selfish thing a person can do and is the coward's way out.  Nothing is so bad that you take your own life and leave your loved ones full of pain, guilt, questions and anger for the rest of their lives.  ...snip..Dave

BS-it only looks that way to those of us on the OUTSIDE. To commit suicide you only have to believe that there is nothing to live for, nothing good to look forward to, no value in drawing another breath. Those of us still here understand that, but if someone is sick enough (clinical depression, whatever) to believe it for just long enough to pull the trigger, it's over. We all make mistakes, and I firmly believe most suicides are mistakes. Sadly you can't come back from this mistake. If that were possible, I'm sure most folks would be glad to come back the next day and try life again for a while.

WELL said. I have been there myself. When I was planning to get a hotel room with a revovler and a bottle of whiskey I at least had a last thought of going to my doctor and talking to him. Had I not, I wouldn't be typing now.........he gave me what I call my "happy pills" If you call them cowards, you sir just don't understand and should be glad you don't. I'm done in this tread. Dave


Thoughts out to the family, friends and KW 

[DIGGER]

I've only recently realized how many suicides there are.  When the subject comes up it's amazing at how many people know someone who committed suicide.  I've never been in that state of mind but it must just really be terrible to think that killing yourself is the answer to all your problems.  My heart goes out to anyone who gets in that state of mind. 

Recently I read where suicide is one of the highest rates of death in the military.

My heart and my prayers goe out to you and your friends family sir.

[Lil D]

Prayers to family and friends....... RIP.......

[solo1]

None of us know what is going through the mind of someone who commits suicide.

Many years ago. I got into an argument with a minister fresh out of the seminary about my great uncle's suicide.  He was judging.  We don't have that right. 

Prayers for the survivors.

[BamaDrifter64]

I know there are those who commit suicide because of mental disease or defect, depression, etc., which is basically a sickness.  My "coward" comment was not directed at those cases.  My apologies to those who have experienced those symptoms or loved ones who died as a result thereof.  My experience concerned someone who had done something wrong and committed suicide because he didn't want to face his loved ones after they learned of his wrongdoing.  He made the choice to deprive his wife, children, parents and friends of his presence for the rest of their lives because he didn't want to face the momentary displeasure they would have with him upon their learning of his brief lapse of judgment.  I saw what it did to them and that is what my comment was based upon.

Dave

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I know there are those who commit suicide because of mental disease or defect, depression, etc., which is basically a sickness.  My "coward" comment was not directed at those cases.  My apologies to those who have experienced those symptoms or loved ones who died as a result thereof.  My experience concerned someone who had done something wrong and committed suicide because he didn't want to face his loved ones after they learned of his wrongdoing.  He made the choice to deprive his wife, children, parents and friends of his presence for the rest of their lives because he didn't want to face the momentary displeasure they would have with him upon their learning of his brief lapse of judgment.  I saw what it did to them and that is what my comment was based upon.

Dave

Understood 

[Chrisj CMA]

Sorry to hear.  Prayers from FL

[Titan]

Anvil and ¿spoom  Share my outlook on these things....despair is a terrible thing. "Coulda,woulda,shoulda," haunts all that have been touched by such a terrible occurrence,but only because they do not know the hurt and despair that brings it. Be thankful that you can not empathize.
                                               

Ditto to you, Anvil and spoom. I got here late on this thread and was about to respond to the "selfish" thing. I've lost a friend to suicide as well. But that was not the reason I feel the way I do about it. One can absolutely get all the way to the bottom to where it's the only thing they can possibly think about. It has absolutely nothing to do with being selfish or a coward.

[Titan]

I know there are those who commit suicide because of mental disease or defect, depression, etc., which is basically a sickness.  My "coward" comment was not directed at those cases.  My apologies to those who have experienced those symptoms or loved ones who died as a result thereof.  My experience concerned someone who had done something wrong and committed suicide because he didn't want to face his loved ones after they learned of his wrongdoing.  He made the choice to deprive his wife, children, parents and friends of his presence for the rest of their lives because he didn't want to face the momentary displeasure they would have with him upon their learning of his brief lapse of judgment.  I saw what it did to them and that is what my comment was based upon.

Dave

Thanks for the clarification. I posted a response before I got this far down and saw this post. I wondered why anybody would say such a thing to a guy (KW) who just said he lost a dear friend.

I do agree with you in the case of a criminal or one who takes suicide as an escape.

But there are many, way too many, people who somehow get to that place in their lives through no fault of their own and take their lives. In their minds, it may even be reconciled as a really good thing they're doing for the benefit of their family.

It's something we will never understand and hope we never have to deal with.


I offer my deepest sympathies to KW.

KW... I know that you'll never understand why/how it could have come to that and you'll never forget.

[Psychotic Bovine]

Very sorry to hear about your friend.

[bigguy]

Sorry to hear about your friend. My only advise is to remember the good stuff. You said you admired him for many years. He must have earned that. Remember that about him.

[czuch]

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. Please be well.
Since folks are chiming in here I guess I will too.
There was a time I thought I'd make the world a better place by not being innit.
A friend, that I did not know, said to wait 24 hours and view it as an observer.
The people I loved and just the everyday day to day.    Now picture it without you.
You can never second guess, but that was the best advise I ever got and gave.
I pray for the family.

[Black Dog]

I lost my best friend 23 years ago (Labor Day weekend), three months after my first son was born.  I was so mad at him...  Never could understand why he did it, and why he left his 4 year old son, and a beautiful loving wife.  Cliff had his demons, was addicted to the bottle, and the night he died, he had a .32 BAC and cocaine in his system...  I got to hose out the garage, after the Coroner left...  I'll never forget that day.

After he was gone, everyone Cliff knew held a small part of the puzzle...  We all talked, and those small parts were all put together...  While we all held a small part, we never saw the completed puzzle until it was too late...  Something I think about every day.

KW,

You may never know the reason, and it does not make you any less of a friend...  All I can say is remember the good times, and the man he was to you.  Sorry for your loss.

Black Dog

[MNBill]

KW- Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. I hope time helps you and his family heal and come to an understanding of what has happened.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

My father commited suicide in 2002 the same day he found out he had pancreatic cancer.He had been fighting pain for well over a year before we finally got him to go see a doctor ....Not a day goes by that he does'nt cross my mind.

[¿spoom]

I know there are those who commit suicide because of mental disease or defect, depression, etc., which is basically a sickness.  My "coward" comment was not directed at those cases.  My apologies to those who have experienced those symptoms or loved ones who died as a result thereof.  My experience concerned someone who had done something wrong and committed suicide because he didn't want to face his loved ones after they learned of his wrongdoing.  He made the choice to deprive his wife, children, parents and friends of his presence for the rest of their lives because he didn't want to face the momentary displeasure they would have with him upon their learning of his brief lapse of judgment.  I saw what it did to them and that is what my comment was based upon.

Dave

You're getting closer, but not there yet. "He made the choice to deprive.........." there's the rub, if you believe he really made that decision as a rational choice after weighing  the odds and being in a clear state of mind, fine. I maintain that is impossible in all but a few cases. The hero that throws himself on a grenade in a crowded foxhole, and similar rare events are good examples of a suicide in a rational thought process. Many folks in clinical depression are actually driven over the edge by the drugs like Cymbalta and/or Abilify, etc. hence the warnings.

[Stanley Steamer]

My Wife's Uncle tried to commit suicide  a couple of months ago....in front of his girlfriend....he'd been drinking at the time....grabbed a rifle and blew his lower jaw and most of his nose off.....and some other damage....I haven't seen him yet......they life flighted him to Greenville, SC and was in the hospital for several weeks.....no insurance, so they ended up sending him home with feeding tubes and all for his GF to have to deal with....they are staying with some friends.....caused his Family a lot of pain and grief too..... ......

[¿spoom]

Let's say that a person is actually going to kill himself and we'll assume he really is of sound mind. Coward? I kind of doubt it, that's a lot of courage to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger, don't you think? If you can do that then one would have to assume you had no qualms about retribution from a diety or a bad afterlife, that you actually believe there would be no ill effects from taking your own life. If that was the usual case then I maintain most suicides would be murder/suicides. Think about it-you are about to leave the planet forever and you are confident that it will have no efects after you're dead as far as the afterlife or being judged. How many people would send someone on ahead of them? Seriously, there's nobody in anyone's past, no one in Washington, etc. etc.? Naw, most suicides aren't cold and clinical. They are from an unsound mind and I believe that 100% There are ones where laws and medicine are keeping folks alive long after they are functional and they just want the pain to be over, the tired to go away, the natural process to let them meet their maker. I feel for those people, and I understand. I will not judge them.

[Novavalker]

Sorry you lost your friend.

[Reb]

Anvil and ¿spoom  Share my outlook on these things....despair is a terrible thing. "Coulda,woulda,shoulda," haunts all that have been touched by such a terrible occurrence,but only because they do not know the hurt and despair that brings it. Be thankful that you can not empathize.
                                               

That's what I mean when I said I'm through judging them. I was a much younger, much more naive person when I took that view. I know different now.

I'm the same way Anvil. Lost 3 classmates (All Females) to suicide shortly after graduating high school. One out of the 3 I took to prom my junior year. She got pregnant on a one night stand at a young age and took her life leaving a 2 year old daughter behind. At the time, I was a little ill tempered at the fact she left her loved ones in a cowardly way. I came to realize it's hard to judge someone when you never walked in there shoes.

[KW]

I didn’t mean to, nor had any desire, to start up a debate concerning suicide, but I guess it inevitable because of the topic. No problem. I would just respectfully ask that we all remember this is personal to some . . . versus ‘politics’ (our normal bait pile here at the VRCC) which has become nothing more than a comedy show now.

I’ve been all over the place concerning suicide. Where I ended up was realizing I’m just not smart enough to figure something’s out. . .  So, my feelings are ambiguous towards it. There’s no ‘cookie cutter’ answers. Period. I wish I could figure it out . . .  The criminal justice system, in all areas, is grossly overrepresented in people taking their own lives. Why is that? (Rhetorical question; my buddies and I have been all over this for years and have zero to show for it!)

Anyway,      thanks for the prayers for the family. The funeral is this coming Friday. I hate funerals. It will be my second one in two weeks.  Pat and I shared some close freinds. We'll all sit around afterwards and someone - for certain - will start naming off all the names of the staff we know who have gone down the same path.

[YoungPUP]

Prayers for his family, and your peace of mind.