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Author Topic: House Weighs Bill to Make Gun Permits Valid Across State Lines  (Read 2624 times)
sugerbear
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Posts: 2419


wentzville mo


« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2011, 06:12:44 PM »

Hey, actually I was serious.  My comment was directed at the poster who stated, “i don't have a problem with the feds issuing permits. . . .”  Because I am not aware of any handgun permit that is issued for free (or perhaps any other federal permit issued for free), I interpret this post as:

1) I have no objection to paying a fee to the federal government in order to exercise my constitutional right to keep and bear arms;

2) I have no objection to denying the right to keep and bear arms to citizens who refuse to apply for the permit and/or pay the required fee; and

3) I have no objection to allowing the federal government to make determinations [and perhaps arbitrary determinations] regarding who is entitled to exercise the right to keep and bear arms.

It bothers me that citizens of the United States are readily willing to allow the federal government to force them to obtain a permit to exercise a constitutional right.

My analogy to the rights guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment was intended to the make the point (that was pretty much expressed by the folks who responded to my post) that to compare the need to obtain a permit to exercise a constitutional right for any right other than the right to keep and bear arms is “whackadoo” and “makes no sense whatsoever . . . .”

Rather than ridicule my post, please explain why it is perfectly logical to give the federal government the right to condition the constitutional right to keep and bear arms upon obtaining a permit, but ludicrous to suggest that the government could impose such a condition on any other constitutional right (e.g., the right against search and seizure).


i simply meant that our names are put through a national database to try t weed out the crazies, to buy a gun.
if we pass that "test" we should be given the right to c.c.. in spite of what the state says.
very simple, no extra work needed. just like a fishing license, print out the permit and go on your way.
but you seem to go to the extreme. Smiley

and where did the "fee" thing come from?? ???
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vanagon40
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Posts: 1465

Greenwood, IN


« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2011, 07:25:35 PM »

sugarbear,

In all sincerity, perhaps I owe you an apology.  But I really cannot help but believe you are a symptom of the philosophy that if the government wants to restrict our rights (especially with regard to the Second Amendment), it must be for the good of society.  In that regard, I would suggest that the Bill of Rights was passed to expressly forbid the federal government that prerogative.  I would further suggest that if you believe the federal government would simply pass out concealed carry permits, quickly, efficiently, effectively, and cheaply, I think you need to look again at our federal government.

You ask, “where did the ‘fee’ thing come from?”  But before, you compared the gun permit to a fishing license.  I ask, when was the last time you obtained a fishing license for free?

Understand, I have no problem charging a fee for a fishing license.  There is no constitutional right to fish.  But there is a constitutional right to keep and bear arms.  So I think the more appropriate analogy is if the federal government can charge a fee for a handgun license, why not a fee for a license to vote?

Perhaps, as you suggest, I go to the extreme to suggest that we should not prohibit the federal government to “weed out the crazies” in denying gun permits, but I would similarly suggest that trusting the federal government to quickly, efficiently, effectively, and cheaply issue concealed carry permits is also at the extreme end of the spectrum.

And I still revert to my original point that a US citizen should not be required to obtain a permit to exercise a constitutional right.

I guess I still believe that one of the three biggest lies ever told includes: "I'm from the federal government and I'm here to help you."
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sugerbear
Member
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Posts: 2419


wentzville mo


« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2011, 08:10:25 PM »

i think you missed my point.

#1 when i buy a gun, my name is put through a national database(government) for free.

#2 when my name comes up as "ok to buy" that notification is sent to the retailer. for free.

#3 when that "ok" is issued it should include the c.c. for free.

#4 if i'm "ok" to buy, i should be "ok" to carry.

#5 the fishing license analogy is ONLY the manner of delivery. spit out a c.c. permit

#6 and lastly recheck the time line of this exchange of the "fee" statement and the fishing license statement.

#7  I'm done cooldude
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vanagon40
Member
*****
Posts: 1465

Greenwood, IN


« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2011, 08:39:14 PM »

Hey sugerbear, I'm done too, and I'm going to bed after this post.

If things would work as you propose, maybe I would have no objection.

However, I think you are living in a fantasy world.

I truly cannot even envision a system where a person would be able to go anywhere and submit his name to national database and when the database revealed no disqualifiers the person would be issued a free concealed carry permit valid in every state.

(And even then, why should a person have to pre-qualify to exercise his second amendment rights, but not his fourth amendment rights?)
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