Nasty message from Chet Walters of Rattlebars.

[DFragn]

Call it a stomp shifter (You have my permission to use that name) and add some speed holes to the arm. then its not the same as his.....

That's an idea, but he'd have no respect from me [not that that matters any] for not having done his own R & D.
 

[BamaDrifter64]

Call it a sh!t kicker....cause that's what we've been doing all day on this thread....

Dave

[MarkT]

Chet should walk softly here.  I DID NOT give him permission to take my copyrighted design here http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/IS_Trunk_Signals/is_trunk_signals.html, do some minor tweaks to it, adding some options, reprint it using better graphics software on his site here http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/istrunklights.html  I wrote that article for the same reason I wrote all my articles, and the same reason he wrote his - to provide value on my site, to give folks a reason to read it - thus improving my net traffic, which is fundamental to every business - you need visitors, need to have traffic for any business to have some of them stick around and buy something.  I did not create that design for someone to copy it and put it on their site, thus improving their traffic.  I have seen posters here point readers to his site detailing my design, and even called it "Chet's design". For him to skwak about someone else ripping off his intellectual property is hypocritical.  In fact, the bottom of my tech tips page links to his pages, to steer traffic to his site.  If I was to pull his stunt, I'd just copy his ideas with a slight spin on them, and reprint them on my site, thus stealing his traffic.    I have complained about this several times, but that page remains on his site.  So I'd say the issue here, is the pot calling the kettle "Black".  He has done the same thing, at least on a copyrighted design.

[The Anvil]

Call it a stomp shifter (You have my permission to use that name) and add some speed holes to the arm. then its not the same as his.....

That's an idea, but he'd have no respect from me [not that that matters any] for not having done his own R & D.
 

Not that anyone here seems all that interested in your respect but what R&D are you referring to? It's a couple of linkages and a plate with footpads on it that's been done before.

[alph]

Here’s my thought;

Screw 'em.  Make as many as you want, make a buck at it also.  If chet's so upset that someone else is making something that he no longer makes, screw 'em.

My last name is copy written, along with a logo that we use to have on our product that sold in nearly 200 grocery stores in Wisconsin, Illinois, and Minnesota.  That was over 20 years ago, and if someone started making our sauce once again, and used our name and our logo, and they became multimillionaires from it, then I’d pursue a law suit, but if they just made a few for friends and family, then there's no right to complain about it.

Go ahead, make YOUR kickshifters, call ‘em what ever you want.  AND MAKE A BUCK WHILE DOING IT!!  This is America, free trade baby!!

[Toledo Mark]

Call it a stomp shifter (You have my permission to use that name) and add some speed holes to the arm. then its not the same as his.....

I like your thinking

[BF]

Has anyone bothered to ask Chet if he'd tool-up and start production again?  He's sold his products to all of the older Valk owners, but these Valks are being recycled to newer and newer owners that are still interested in his products. 

[junior]

chet got his painties in a buch when i posted the pics for his trailer hitch......he is such a girl
this is gonna open up a whole can of worms esp. fpr you guys that use the frase "making beacon" as your love making sessons.........................Oscar Myore will sue snd Smythfeild will be right behind them to sopp up any drippings

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Has anyone bothered to ask Chet if he'd tool-up and start production again?  He's sold his products to all of the older Valk owners, but these Valks are being recycled to newer and newer owners that are still interested in his products.  

I emailed him and begged him to do a run telling him of the interest by some. His response was "there's one on ebay know". I emailed back that they are going for ridiculus amounts because of the number of people wanting them, could he do a run and heard nothing back. That was a couple months ago.

Glad I got my old Kuryakyn KICKSHIFTER from the person who bought my old bike as I like it BETTER anyway.  

[BonS]

Having spent a career working with lawyers on intellectual property matters I have to add this:

A trademarked name cannot be descriptive. I've seen words rejected as trademarks that were a lot less descriptive than KickShifter. Adding spaces or changing spelling doesn't change anything legally. A good example is Kleenex (R) is a "facial tissue". They cannot trademark the words "facial tissue" but the word Kleenex doesn't describe anything. It would seem that KickShifter is descriptive.

Secondly, a trademark is applied to only active products. A valid trademark will be declared dead after about 5 years of non-use for a product that is no longer offered for sale.

Thirdly, any individual or company can make an exact replica, or copy, of anything, patented or not, as long as it is not sold or offered for sale. Making a drawing and sharing it does not constitute theft of another's product.

The above being said: In the USA anybody can sue anybody for anything. They may not win but it will usually cost big bucks to defend yourself even if you've done nothing wrong. So it's best to avoid confrontation by steering well away from infringement when selling things unless there are really big bucks involved.

And finally, I too appreciate what Chet has done for our community and wish him well.  Working out an arrangement for someone else to go to the trouble to manufacture a replica kickshifter would benefit us all and Chet would enjoy getting a check in the mail I'm sure.  

[BnB Tom]

I noticed 'nothing' was mentioned about Kuryakyn's (extinct) "Heel-Toe" shifter..

         I still use one.  I hope Chet's not going to sue me!!

                         

[Jess Tolbirt]

hmmmmm,, vacuum cleaners come to mind,,,,trade mark or not,,,if there is a difference in any one part that is NOT EXACTLY like the original, then it can be produced with a new trade mark,,,if not then we would still be using to old canister type hoovers,,,

[bscrive]

I just heard from Chet again.  He informed me that:  "If Valkyrie riders would have bought them when I asked them to I would not have retired.  But they didn't so I did."

I sent him a nice email explaining the words libel and slander.

I know he did a lot for this site but it does not give him the right to call me a thief and put it on the board when I did nothing legally or ethically wrong.  The term "kickshifter" was never his to use exclusively and the design was not his.

According to this sites code of ethics I think his membership should be terminated.

[DFragn]

Call it a stomp shifter (You have my permission to use that name) and add some speed holes to the arm. then its not the same as his.....

That's an idea, but he'd have no respect from me [not that that matters any] for not having done his own R & D.
 

Not that anyone here seems all that interested in your respect but what R&D are you referring to? It's a couple of linkages and a plate with footpads on it that's been done before.

Yer a smart guy, with the exception of that danza thing you got goin' on. 

Yeah, I suppose you could take a piece of flat stock and just guess on the alignment cuts, mounting point, peg locations & receiver for the OEM shifter.
But, even that would denote R & D.

Waiting patiently for you to denounce that...

[The Anvil]

Call it a stomp shifter (You have my permission to use that name) and add some speed holes to the arm. then its not the same as his.....

That's an idea, but he'd have no respect from me [not that that matters any] for not having done his own R & D.
 

Not that anyone here seems all that interested in your respect but what R&D are you referring to? It's a couple of linkages and a plate with footpads on it that's been done before.

Yer a smart guy, with the exception of that danza thing you got goin' on. 

Yeah, I suppose you could take a piece of flat stock and just guess on the alignment cuts, mounting point, peg locations & receiver for the OEM shifter.
But, even that would denote R & D.

Waiting patiently for you to denounce that...

I'm not saying that the R&D is nonexistent but this is the kind of thing that you could draw up easily and then tweak especially since an idea that's existed for decades and been adapted to a specific model. It's not like the heel/toe shifter was invented for the Valk.


I just don't see that Chet has any leg to stand on, especially since it's been pointed out that he's been lifting stuff from other people.

[Disco]

I think lots of folks have made valid points back and forth, but I vote BonS on this one.   

[DFragn]

Call it a stomp shifter (You have my permission to use that name) and add some speed holes to the arm. then its not the same as his.....

That's an idea, but he'd have no respect from me [not that that matters any] for not having done his own R & D.
 

Not that anyone here seems all that interested in your respect but what R&D are you referring to? It's a couple of linkages and a plate with footpads on it that's been done before.

Yer a smart guy, with the exception of that danza thing you got goin' on. 

Yeah, I suppose you could take a piece of flat stock and just guess on the alignment cuts, mounting point, peg locations & receiver for the OEM shifter.
But, even that would denote R & D.

Waiting patiently for you to denounce that...

I'm not saying that the R&D is nonexistent but this is the kind of thing that you could draw up easily and then tweak especially since an idea that's existed for decades and been adapted to a specific model. It's not like the heel/toe shifter was invented for the Valk.


I just don't see that Chet has any leg to stand on, especially since it's been pointed out that he's been lifting stuff from other people.

Anvil, You are likely the only polymathic person I know in any capacity. And, you are as heavy & solid as an anvil.  Have you taken a swim lately?

[musclehead]

Call it a stomp shifter (You have my permission to use that name) and add some speed holes to the arm. then its not the same as his.....

That's an idea, but he'd have no respect from me [not that that matters any] for not having done his own R & D.
 

Not that anyone here seems all that interested in your respect but what R&D are you referring to? It's a couple of linkages and a plate with footpads on it that's been done before.

Yer a smart guy, with the exception of that danza thing you got goin' on. 

Yeah, I suppose you could take a piece of flat stock and just guess on the alignment cuts, mounting point, peg locations & receiver for the OEM shifter.
But, even that would denote R & D.

Waiting patiently for you to denounce that...

I'm not saying that the R&D is nonexistent but this is the kind of thing that you could draw up easily and then tweak especially since an idea that's existed for decades and been adapted to a specific model. It's not like the heel/toe shifter was invented for the Valk.


I just don't see that Chet has any leg to stand on, especially since it's been pointed out that he's been lifting stuff from other people.

Anvil, You are likely the only polymathic person I know in any capacity. And, you are as heavy & solid as an anvil.  Have you taken a swim lately?

you know we just keep an anvil around to pound  on   

[The Anvil]

Anvil, You are likely the only polymathic person I know in any capacity. And, you are as heavy & solid as an anvil.  Have you taken a swim lately?

I was just in the pool today, true story. 

[tank_post142]

MY GOD! if he floats he's a witch! if he sinks and drowns, he was innocent.

[bigdog99]

"Why is my post looking like big al's?"

 
i just pee'd my pants

 

[MacDragon]

Geez,  give it a break... make the damn kickshifter, or whateverelse you want to call it... put it on your bike and call it a day.  Screw everyone that bitches at it.

[musclehead]

MY GOD! if he floats he's a witch! if he sinks and drowns, he was innocent.

if he weighs the same as a duck, then he's made of wood.
and therefore?
A WITCH!!!!

it's a fair cop.

[X Ring]

MY GOD! if he floats he's a witch! if he sinks and drowns, he was innocent.

if he weighs the same as a duck, then he's made of wood.
and therefore?
A WITCH!!!!

it's a fair cop.

Es verdad!

Marty

[stude31]

Well written BonS...  Hope all is well in Kansas  City... Hope to see you at one of our kansas get togethers one of these days..

On topic of this I must say the name calling and finger pointing at who is right and wrong is absurd.  Whatever happened to respectfully disagreeing and not basing someone's value of opinion on if they have only posted a few times or not?  So they don't know Chet or the leg work he did to help write up some ideas on here. 

I work in the IT field and no one writes a program they use what is their and modify it.  Does the original owner get upset that someone copied it and modified it? No, they all do it and it sounds like Chet did that as well...   If his remark is true in that he posted to have people buy and they didn't so he closed shop then that is his choice, but if he loved these bikes and enjoyed designing parts for our valks then why so upset?

Heck, I gave a bid on a yard for landscaping and irrigation and didn't get the bid cause someone was cheaper but they took my plans and used them to complete the job.  Was I pissed?  Nope, I was glad to know my time and effort didn't end on paper but  rather someone else took my work and followed through.  The home ended up being in the Parade of Homes with my design.   

I think everyone just needs to get out and go for a ride 

[hotglue #43]

What Stude 31 sez!