Engine Runs Really Rough - Part II

[Korea Man]

Well - I guess that cuts it....no joy in Mudville ...the bike has not improved...I may try "drain the carb cleaner through the carbs" idea....but may actually tackle the removal of the carbs...on second thought that may actually be the best thing...that way there is no real question of their status....so if there are any others out there plus those that have already spoken, to help me out let me know......Most likely will start next week/weekend as I have to go to DC later this week/weekend. I truly appreciate all that have written...wish me luck!

[BonS]

I would not count on getting the clogged slow jets clean after you remove them. Rather I would purchase six new ones and have them on hand when you do the job. The critical hole is very small is easily damaged by trying to poke a wire through it.

I would also consider upsizing the original slow jet from a #35 to a #38. The general consensus is that the #38 doesn't clog as easily and will richen the slow speed mixture giving better startups and cold running characteristics. The original #35 is quite lean to help with passing manufacturer required EPA tests.

I particularly enjoy the extra reliability at low rpm's when lightly accelerating from a stop. A lean mixture flirts with stalling more so than a rich mixture that you get with the 38 slow jets.

You will want to move your carburetor air mixture screws in to about 1.50 - 1.75 turns out if you do use 38's and this requires a "D" shaped tool to do so.

[Korea Man]

Thanks BonS and duely noted....I get the jets at the Honda dealer I would assume.....

[9Ball]

Thanks BonS and duely noted....I get the jets at the Honda dealer I would assume.....

do not order them through Chapparal....lots of problems posted here.  You can buy them directly from Sudco...they were about $30 for 6 plus shipping.  Your Honda dealer may only have the stock 35s....and they are usually about $8 each through the dealer.

Have all your parts on hand first.  Make sure to buy the pilot o-rings...redeyetech on ebay has them.  If you didn't desmog, then buy the vacuum lines and vacuum plugs through redeyetech too.  The bowl screws are a PITA to remove and are usually "welded" in place from dissimilar metal issues.  They take JIS screwdriver, but a properly sized Phillips will work as long as you go slow, apply sufficient downward pressure, and occasionally might need needlenose vice grips on the screw heads to allow them to "snap" loose.  I recommend buying the redeyetech bowl screws for replacement while you're at it.

Be sure to clean the carbs and spray through the pilot circuit with carb cleaner.  I used at least 2 cans on the last 3 set of carbs I've cleaned (or assisted in cleaning).

Replace the intake runner o-rings while you're in there.  I replaced the carb drain tubing and fuel lines when I did mine and recommend this to others.  This way, you won't need to tear into the carbs for another 10 or 12 years with any luck.  Do it right the first time.

Good luck and ask questions.  It is really very simple as long as you are methodical, follow the Honda service manual, and take your time.  You'll spend most of your time (as cursing) trying to re-fit the airbox.  There are a few tricks to removing the carb bank and re-installing that you may want to ask when the time comes.

[Korea Man]

Okee Dokee...and yes I am printing this as we go! Appreciate the help...too bad such a problem is there in the first place...but we'll give it a go....obviously I need to seperate the carbs to the individual state....

[Korea Man]

Say.....BonS...what would  or would you consider doing them for me if I agreed to compensate you for your time and parts cost..or I sent everything you needed to do this.....just a question....I don't want people to start getting the idea that "Your the Carb Man," but it is a thought.......

[Korea Man]

Ooops should have asked JR Horton---same issue, any thoughts of if I were to send them too you....and compensated you, you could get the carbs right?....

[BonS]

Sorry, I'm not your man. I have a day job and two businesses to run. You'll likely find somebody that can help out here if that is what you want. You can count on it.

[Korea Man]

Thanks BonS, appreciate the heads up and glad you were at least nice enough to respond....hey JR Horton are ya out there? LOL!

[Chiefy]

Haven't done it.  But I'm certain you don't need to separate all the carbs.  Just wanted to throw that at you until someone who'd done it chimes in.

[popsix]

This is really good info! Hope you don't mind a Valk noob asking for a little clarification. What about the "D - shaped tool" that was mentioned? What are we talking about here?    Do you need a special tool to adjust the pilot screws?
If Techron doesn't help a lean condition at idle on mine, 38s it is... that's why I'm curious. Thanks, guys. Ya'll are great!

[shortleg]

 No need to seperate carbs to replace jets.
Carbs come out the left side after moveing
the coil that is in the way.
       Shortleg[Dave]

[Korea Man]

Hoorah! Thats half the battle won..... I was just wasn't sure ....I really didn't want to have to seperate them too....

[Blackduck]

No need to dismantle all the carbs, just remove the fuel bowls to access the jets.
If using carb cleaner remove the diaphragms first as the cleaner will attack the rubber.
Cheers Steve

[Thunderbolt]

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0242

I usually set the pilot to 2 1/4 turns out from stop.  If you use the larger jets, you will probably need to do as suggested and make it less.

One of the cheapo screwdriver sets from sears or another parts supply house has the adapter to get it to 1/4" socket set size.

[Korea Man]

Great ...Thanks to all....I'll just have to take a look at them once I get it apart, and dertermine how far down to take them....really not looking to do this again soon......but as it was mentioned....slow and methodical...and label everything......gotta get that funny tool too....maybe SEARS? or the place advertised.....Later! and thanks again!!!!!! to all...they weren't joking this is the place for help and support!!!!!

[9Ball]

I got your PM....sent a response.  Unless you have a fuel leak there should be no need to break the carbs apart from each other.

Just make sure you have the Honda service manual AND all your parts before you start...there may even be someone near your location that is willing to provide a helping hand.

Go slowly, label things, take notes and pictures as needed, follow the instructions, and ask questions BEFORE you run intro trouble.

As someone else recommended, you will need the pilot "D" bit.  I bought mine through motion pro for a few dollars and used a 1/4" socket for the driver.  These parts are small and easily damaged or lost so it is always good to work on a clean surface with a white towel underneath to catch any falling parts.

[R J]

When ya take the carb bank out, be sure and cover the six little holes to keep dirt out while you have the carbs on the bench.

I have this blue handled 90 degree driver in 1/4 drive.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/motionpro90degreescrewdriverreview.shtml

Here is the 'D' socket:     I think this is th one I have.

http://www.mactools.com/SearchResults/tabid/79/Default.aspx?Search=MN08-0242

[czuch]

Man, you guys are great!
Through reading this I get that Koreaman has friends standing next to him at the bench.
Hey Koreaman, ya need to get more beer and some burgers for the BBQ.

[Korea Man]

Hey!!! Thanks all...I will start to dig in as soon as I get my  tools, the size # 38 pilot...the "D" thingee and the suggested rubber hosing(to beat her into shape) for the fuel lines etc....some sharpee's and masking tape for numbering...

Yadda...Yadda...but will read the manual over and over...I do have it in hard copy and have the electrons somewhere......and as far as the Beer and Burgers...we're talking OB and Bul-go-gee.'

Thanks all and we'll be sure to let everyone know the progress(hopefully).

[9Ball]

let us know if you find any surprises when you get everything removed.  I found a few screws and a washer and some bit that looks like it bounced off my work bench and got stuck on top of the engine block.  It's a good time to clean and inspect everything and hopefully you won't find any bad surprises.

One thing to consider while you have everything apart is an aux fuse box.  It's a good time to run wires, even if you don't use them right away, for things like aux horns, driving lights, gps power supply, heated grips or clothing, etc.  The wires can be neatly run along the frame and just zip-tied on either end until you need them.  Leave a little extra length and you can trim to fit later.  Just use different color wires or label each end then pick the spot where you plan to mount the fuse box and you'll save a lot of time in the future.

[Brian]

Korean man,
You will have to separate the carbs if you want to replace the o-rings, I do suggest this while you have them out. Just take your time when separating the carbs going slow, paying attention to the spring locations Take close up pictures of them before you start and by all means don't scatter the pieces. It's not hard to do this with manual. Like I told you before I had mine out 5 times, the fifth time was to replace the o-rings because they started leaking. My local hardware had the o-rings, been five years and not one leak. They weren't anything special like viton.

Good luck grasshopper.

[YoungPUP]

If you're using a Chilton/Haynes manual, Ignore draining the cooling system. Drop the left rear motor mount, and slide the whole rack out the side. (Wouldve saved me a LOT of Trouble.) You can get the "D"" tool from redeye too, nice quality. VERY heavy duty.  Be patient, and only open one Carb at a time! You don;t want to go mixing pieces.  a little valve grinding compound will help the screwdriver "Bite" the bowl screws so you don't strip out the head. Get the bowl o-ring kit from redeye as well. Its not rubber like the stock ones, his page explains all that.

*No affiliation to Redeye, just very happy customer.*

[Korea Man]

Thanks to all...as far as the manual...using the Honda Shop Manual...Apprecaite all the help...liked the ideas for the aux fuse box..I'll have to put some serious htought into that....also the ideas to take the  tightening rings around the intakes all the way off is a good idea as I had two fall off...word to the unknowing....

[Ricky-D]

I always considered the idea to replace the stock idle jets with larger idle jets for reasons like (less clog-ability) and (damaging the stocks with probes while cleaning) is folly and denies the obvious.

I have always used wire gauge feelers with success cleaning jets and a little care and good mechanical practices will always be the best way to act in this regard.

And, you can read the success and failure in posts regarding changing to larger idle jets. Running richer and lower gas mileage is the usual result.  If the bike is used primarily at higher elevations the results of larger jets can be even more dramatic, in a negative way.

I don't consider that being able to start a cold bike with not having to employ the choke is a "macho" thing nor something to bestow "braggin' rights".

Again, to think Honda "got it wrong" is way off the mark.

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