Paterno is History !!!

[The Anvil]

As the grandfather of a granddaughter who was sexually molested by her biological father at age four, maybe I can offer a unique perspective on this.

Fortunately, someone cared enough to follow the law and report what our granddaughter told her to the police. The actions of a church kindergarten teacher may have saved our granddaughters life, and certainly saved her mental well-being - thank God for her and those like her. As for those who wait and hope that someone else will do what they themselves should do, well, I hope they spend a long, excruciatingly painful eternity, along with the molester, screaming at the top of their lungs for mercy.

The molester could not be prosecuted due to my granddaughter's young age and perceived lack of "presence" on the stand. Nevertheless, he does have a file on record that somehow seems to follow him wherever he goes. He has become an alcoholic, lost every job job he has held since the molestation, gone bankrupt and now lives in a halfway house for recovering alcoholics. For the past eighteen years, he has only been able to see his daughter at supervised visitations. The only reason he still draws breath is that my daughter and wife were able to convince me that he was not worth me going to jail for what I wanted to do to him.

Think good and hard about this and then make your decision about all that went wrong at Penn State. There is cowardice and lack of moral fiber enough to go around for all concerned.

+1 to this and Donald's post.

Can you imagine being the victims? Along with the shame of being a victim of sexual abuse comes the crippling self doubt and self-loathing. Among the questions you yourself are:

"Did I do something to cause this?"
"Was this my fault?"
"Am I dirty?"

Well, by their actions the people who should have protected these children answered all of these question with a big, fat YES to all of them. Likewise the idiots who support the people who couldn't even do the bare minimum for them. Blind rubes beholden to a befuddled and deified ancient football hero, as if the win/loss record of Penn State's football team matters more than the safety of children (which apparently in central PA it does).

I've also heard that this kind of thing could happen anywhere. I don't buy that for a moment. There's something fundamentally WRONG with any community that values it's college football more than it's children.

[Skinhead]

Pennsylvania is definitely a football state, but I don't think you should judge the whole state by the actions of a few.  I'm sure the majority is appalled by this whole mess, but the press is reporting on the minority.  The students at State College are too emotionally attached to the whole college experience to take a step back and really evaluate the situation.  When it all sinks in, I'm sure they will come down on the right side of this issue.

[The Anvil]

Pennsylvania is definitely a football state, but I don't think you should judge the whole state by the actions of a few.  I'm sure the majority is appalled by this whole mess, but the press is reporting on the minority.  The students at State College are too emotionally attached to the whole college experience to take a step back and really evaluate the situation.  When it all sinks in, I'm sure they will come down on the right side of this issue.

I have to respectfully disagree. The horror of child rape should not need time to "sink in". And nevermind the students. We expect college students to be morons.  What of the police and college officials who knew and did nothing? Did you read the last story I posted? People are supporting Sandusky finacially. Read that again in case that hasn't "sunk in".

And I'm not judging all of PA, but the Happy Valley culture is clearly morally bankrupt.

[Bob E.]

Pennsylvania is definitely a football state, but I don't think you should judge the whole state by the actions of a few.  I'm sure the majority is appalled by this whole mess, but the press is reporting on the minority.  The students at State College are too emotionally attached to the whole college experience to take a step back and really evaluate the situation.  When it all sinks in, I'm sure they will come down on the right side of this issue.

I have to respectfully disagree. The horror of child rape should not need time to "sink in". And nevermind the students. We expect college students to be morons.  What of the police and college officials who knew and did nothing? Did you read the last story I posted? People are supporting Sandusky finacially. Read that again in case that hasn't "sunk in".

And I'm not judging all of PA, but the Happy Valley culture is clearly morally bankrupt.

I have to agree with Skinhead on this one.  Having been a part of the "Happy Valley Culture" for 5 years (granted it was some time ago...actually when Sandusky was still actively coaching) I can assure you that bankrupt morality isn't the culture up there.  There are bad apples (some very bad) everywhere.  But overall, Happy Valley is a great place as a whole.  

Here is why I think the students initially reacted the way they did.  Paterno is/was a god up there...really, an idol...for everything he has done and stood for both on and off the field over the years.  He's been alot more than just a football coach.  I think the students were seeing their icon being destroyed and it is so hard to believe that someone as great as Paterno could possibly be involved in something so...appalling.  Therefore it must not be true (not me saying that, just my perception of what the students might be thinking).  If you think about it, this entire story is pretty unbelievable it is so bad.  So they see Joe being torn down for something he didn't do.  They cling to the fact that Joe DID REPORT the incident to his superiors and is being destroyed for the administration (Curley and Schultz) failing to report it to the police...which is technically the law and Joe followed the law and "technically" did his part.  They see it as the administration throwing Joe, their guy, under the bus.  Not sure how it has been up there recently, but I know that when I was there, there was always friction between the student body and the administration.  So I can see these reasons for the students being on Joe's side.  You also have to remember that the students are young, immature, and many do not have the sense or life experience to step back and take a wider view of the situation...at least not right away.  I think, as more details are released and they have time for it all to sink in as Skinhead says, they will recognize just how bad this all is and recognize that Joe did fail...miserably...in this test of moral judgement.  Frankly, I just think they cannot believe it and therefore, it must not be true.

By the way, I did read the article you posted and I agree, that guy (only one according to the article) that sent Sandusky a check for $100 is an idiot.  On the other hand, he did pretty much admit his ignorance when he said he hasn't read all of the details because it is so upsetting.

[Bob E.]

I've been thinking about McQueary too...Why didn't he step in and rescue the child?  At 6'-4" and 240lbs, former starting quarterback, he certainly had nothing to fear physically from a 60yr old man like Sandusky.  Plus, at the time, McQueary was 28 years old....certainly not a kid...and should have known how to react.  So I've been trying to understand why didn't he?  And all I can come up with is...he was scared.  Since he was a little kid...elementary school...McQueary played football and has been trained (brainwashed) to respect the coaches, listen to the coaches, be submissive to the coaches, maybe even fear them on some level because they are in charge.  Furthermore, McQueary grew up in State College in the shadow of the Nittany Lions football program with the dream of someday playing for them.  Ultimately he did, and played under Paterno and Sandusky.  And those guys are HUGE and respected.  As a player, you listen to them explicitly because if you don't,  the consequences would be bad.  That's just what you are trained to do.  Later, he continued his life in this bubble joining the football staff as a graduate assistant still under Sandusky.  Eventually Sandusky retires (or is forced to retire) but still continues being active with the team.  So essentially, he is still a coach and part of the leadership that McQueary must follow.  And so when he finds himself in that locker room, first caught off guard because he didn't expect anyone to be there, then caught off guard being that it is Sandusky that is there at weird hours, and THEN to see something so sick and disgusting being done by someone he so respected (maybe practically worshipped) and maybe even feared as his superior, that he just was in shock, saw the entirety of his world twisted, and got scared and ran away.  Reports are that he was very emotional and visibly shaken when he made the report to Paterno the next day.

Now, I'm not trying to excuse what he did or didn't do.  I really wish he would have done something in the moment and I'd like to think I would have the courage to place myself between a child and his rapist if I walked in on something like that.  I'm just trying to rationalize and understand why he didn't.  Generally, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt...that he didn't just walk out as if he condoned what he saw...that he was in total shock, got scared, and basically melted down and didn't or couldn't process what to do, so he ran.  And like I posted before, I want to believe that he (as well as Paterno for that matter) was led to believe that action was being taken by Curley and Schultz after they brought him in.  But I struggle with the fact that they continued to let Sandusky participate in team activities.  I even heard on the radio today that Sandusky went on a recruiting trip to South Carolina as recently as last month.  And he was working out in the gym as recently as last week.  How could they let that happen after this?  THEY KNEW!!!  And that makes me sick.

[The Anvil]

Here is why I think the students initially reacted the way they did.  Paterno is/was a god up there...really, an idol...

That in a nutshell is WHY the culture is so morally bankrupt. Football coaches should not be gods. Those people need to get their priorities in order.

[Bob E.]

Here is why I think the students initially reacted the way they did.  Paterno is/was a god up there...really, an idol...

That in a nutshell is WHY the culture is so morally bankrupt. Football coaches should not be gods. Those people need to get their priorities in order.

Certainly, priorities have been misplaced.  My disagreement is that you specifically called out "Happy Valley Culture" as being morally bankrupt, as if it is particularly worse than anywhere else.  I don't think it is and actually, I believe that for a very long time, it has been better than alot of places. In fact, I think that Penn State's and Joe Paterno's excellent reputation for ethics and academics for the atheletes among bigtime colleges is a big reason this story is so compelling to alot of people across the nation.  Nobody can believe that this story would happen at Penn State of all places.

As for Paterno being treated as a god or idol, I would definitely agree with you in most cases. But I think that Paterno's reputation is founded on so much more than just winning football games.  There is how he has won...Success with Honor is one of his motto's he drills into his players.  He ran a clean program with no NCAA violations and had one of the highest graduation rates among his players in the country.  Then there is his countless contributions and support to various charities and support for the university.  He donated $4million of his own money to build a new state of the art library and has lent his name and time to raise alot more money for numerous worthy causes.  Furthermore, he has done all of this while seemingly remaining very grounded...living in the same modest house just off campus and not even removing his phone number from the local phone book.  And then there is the longevity of his impeccable reputation and success all while staying loyal to Penn State, even when he had opportunities to move on to perhaps bigger and better things like coaching pro-football or even bigger schools for alot more money.  His $1M salary is alot of money, but pales in comparison to what he could have received elsewhere.  So yeah, nobody should be treated like a god.  But Joe has earned his reputation and has been climbing higher and higher on that pedestal for a long time...and for good reason.  That's just all the more reason it is so astonishing that it is going to end like this. It is a real shame.

[donaldcc]

  I think the only thing Joe has "earned" at this point is to have his entire career flushed down the toilet.  One of my best buds is devout Penn State alumni and supporter.  He is sad about what happened and cannot discuss the events with me, but refuses to believe that it was all about the $$$ and the power.

  Joe Paterno is an old guy and did not have control of his dynasty.  He was too powerful to be "put down" because he drew so much money and prestige to the university.  Even in 98 when it should have been clear to anyone with a brain that they had a sick f..k as a major player in the institution Penn State and Paterno did not act.  2002 events are indicative of how the whole system encouraged its need for survival by refusing to act appropriately.

  I hope for my friend that it comes out that Joe Pa is severely demented and doesn't have a clue what is going on.  That is HIS only excuse.  If not, let him fry with Sandusky and everyone else involved.

  And now we have Bradley as the new head coach.  Don't really know how they came up with that.  He has been there 30 years.  Hard to believe that the entire coaching staff didn't know about the events or rumors with Sandusky.  He worked right with the guy for decades. Serving under Sandusky, Bradley coached the defensive backs, linebackers, defensive ends, and special teams. Bradley then became defensive coordinator after Sandusky's retirement in 1999. If he is so blind not to have a clue what was going on he should not be there now.  

  What is Penn State thinking?  This will go down as one of the greatest travesties in sports history and will captivate the news for many, many months.

   Though I have no personal ties with Penn State except my friend, it is an embarrassment for sports and education.  It goes to show that $$$ and power trump morals and what is right.  

[donaldcc]

  Take his name off the library and rip down his statue on campus.  Otherwise no parent should send their child to that school.

[Bob E.]

 I think the only thing Joe has "earned" at this point is to have his entire career flushed down the toilet.  


  And now we have Bradley as the new head coach.  Don't really know how they came up with that.  He has been there 30 years.  Hard to believe that the entire coaching staff didn't know about the events or rumors with Sandusky.  


   Though I have no personal ties with Penn State except my friend, it is an embarrassment for sports and education.  It goes to show that $$$ and power trump morals and what is right.  

I agree.  Joe had earned the respect of alot of people and worked his way to the top.  But you are right that at this point, he flushed it all down the toilet.

I also agree that it is hard to believe that others (like Bradley) didn't know.  Rumors get around.  And in 1998, Sandusky was still the Def. Coordinator when the police were investigating him.

I'm not ready to indict the entire university at this point.  At this point, according to the evidence, this appears to be a pretty small circle of people that were involved.  Sandusky, McQueary, Paterno, Schultz, Curley, and Spanier are the only ones named. Its likely to grow somewhat, but with hundreds (if not thousands) of university staff as well as over 50,000 students on that campus alone plus numerous other campuses across the state, its not like everyone got together in Beaver Stadium on this and said, "Hey we got a problem, lets bury this."

[The Anvil]

Here is why I think the students initially reacted the way they did.  Paterno is/was a god up there...really, an idol...

That in a nutshell is WHY the culture is so morally bankrupt. Football coaches should not be gods. Those people need to get their priorities in order.

Certainly, priorities have been misplaced.  My disagreement is that you specifically called out "Happy Valley Culture" as being morally bankrupt, as if it is particularly worse than anywhere else. 

It is worse. This kind of thing (the coverup involving police and public officials) would never happen here.

Paterno's claim to any kind of ethics and morality are gone.

[Bob E.]

This kind of thing (the coverup involving police and public officials) would never happen here.

Thats a pretty bold statement considering the folks at PSU thought the same thing last week.

[The Anvil]

This kind of thing (the coverup involving police and public officials) would never happen here.

Thats a pretty bold statement considering the folks at PSU thought the same thing last week.

Yes, but they were obviously wrong. I'm not.