Gun Control.....

[junior]

this is gun control..............he didnt miss a shot

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[FryeVRCCDS0067]

No more comments from me on gun control.
I have stirred enough.
Why would you want to kill someone ( guilty or innocent ).
That's all you can do with a loaded gun.
I am sorry, I just dont understand.
Surely something just ain't right.
Don ( Aussie )

"You call that a knife?
Now this is a knife..." Paul Hogan-Crocodile Dundee

How come you haven't outlawed knives? "Knives kill people, people don't kill people..."

Hate to say it, but I think they did outlaw knifes.
http://www.aushunt.com.au/main/mainarticle2.php?articleid=9a4716ac32

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

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[blastedbugler]

In response to herc770, and his comment re legality of knives.
Firstly you dont want to believe what you see in the movies.
There are no Crocodile Dundee's roaming the streets in Australia.
Each State basically has the same law applying to knives.

"In this state a normal fixed blade or folding knife is referred to as a "regulated weapon" and "a person must not possess, carry or use a regulated weapon without lawful excuse" and "a person must not carry a regulated weapons unless it is carried in a safe and secure manner consistent with the lawful excuse for which it is possessed or is carried or is to be used". A lawful excuse includes:
the pursuit of any lawful employment duty or activity; and participation in any lawful sport, recreation or entertainment."

So as you see in Australia knives are treated similarly as guns.
Weapon of choice by the younger generation seems to be the fist.
At least you have a good chance to defend yourself.

Most deaths in Australia are from natural, medical or vehicle accidents.
We dont have many planes dropping out of the sky.

Don ( Aussie )

[MP]

Most deaths in Australia are from natural, medical or vehicle accidents.
We dont have many planes dropping out of the sky.

Don ( Aussie )

That is also true here, in the USA.  By far.  I am glad you have no gun deaths there. However, here crooks have guns.  Some use them. I have the right to defend myself.

Having one of our members here carrying does not upset me.  I have traveled with some carrying, as I sometimes carry.  I am NOT worried about them shooting me.  I trust my fellow citizens.

I am happy that, according to you, if I were to do an internet search, I would find no instances in Austrailia of bad people shooting good people.  I am glad for your country.

I believe that if guns were outlawed here, that the bad guys would NOT turn in their guns.  Maybe you have a belief that they would, but I do not.

When states in the US pass carry laws, and make it EASIER for their citizens to carry, crime goes DOWN in those areas.  Not up.  The states with the highest legal gun ownership, have the LOWEST crime rates.

MP

[The Anvil]

There was a time even here in America when two people settled their differences more often than not with their fists. I think I may have grown up at the tail end of it. In school if you had a beef with someone you just squared up and went to town. Some people liked to wait until after school and meet up in a parking lot or at a field, a crowd would gather and they'd start swinging until someone called uncle or got knocked out (very, very rare). Personally I preferred to get it over with right away. I didn't like the whole "sitting around and waiting" thing. I feel bad for all of the teachers I put in the middle of that, but I was a teenager and wasn't thinking of them.

Now? I don't know why but a lot of people seem to think that guns are the first step. I think a lot of adults are just scared children inside.

[3fan4life]

Most deaths in Australia are from natural, medical or vehicle accidents.

Don ( Aussie )

I can see the attitude towards guns and knives in the city environment (I don't agree with it but I can see it).

But, what about the rural areas ? Especially the Outback where without weapons man is NOT at the top of the food chain.

With so many deadly snakes and animals that think of people as food it would seem to me that your safety in those areas would absolutely depend upon being armed. 

We dont have many planes dropping out of the sky.

I am not sure where this comment came from.
 
It "SMACKED" me in the face as possibly a thinly veiled reference to the events of  September 11th, 2001.

I sincerely hope that it wasn't.

Because, I can tell you that if it was, "THAT AIN'T FUNNY".   

[JimmyG]

To all the danged Aussies on here, cheers mates, let's stop and have a brew.  I served with the Aussies twice in Nam as our security unit. I wore their clothes, ate their food, drank their tea. Here is what I know about them. We never got hit by Charlie when we were with them. They had a reputation for finishing a fight, and they used their heads about it too.  I would love to go to Australia and visit and look up some guys I served with. Why they got so strict with guns I don't understand, but I hope it does not happen here in the states. 

[Bigwolf]

I found a couple of things interesting about Australia's gun confiscation.  In the years following the confication of private arms, the numbers of suicides did not change.  The method of suicide did change from using a gun to jumping from a high place and letting gravity do the work.  This is more interesting because the number of suicides were used as part of the so called unnecessary gun deaths total used as a ploy for implementing gun confiscation.  Their crime rate went up although that did not supprise me much.  Criminals will use whatever they can to make sure they have a superior advantage.

I respect anyone's right to not defend theirself against someone that intends to kill them.  If they do not want to harm any anyone even though that means they themselves will surely die, then that is their choice.  I just wish those same people would respect my choice to defend myself and my loved ones against such an unwarranted attack.

Wolf

[musclehead]

In response to herc770, and his comment re legality of knives.
Firstly you dont want to believe what you see in the movies.
There are no Crocodile Dundee's roaming the streets in Australia.
Each State basically has the same law applying to knives.

"In this state a normal fixed blade or folding knife is referred to as a "regulated weapon" and "a person must not possess, carry or use a regulated weapon without lawful excuse" and "a person must not carry a regulated weapons unless it is carried in a safe and secure manner consistent with the lawful excuse for which it is possessed or is carried or is to be used". A lawful excuse includes:
the pursuit of any lawful employment duty or activity; and participation in any lawful sport, recreation or entertainment."

So as you see in Australia knives are treated similarly as guns.
Weapon of choice by the younger generation seems to be the fist.
At least you have a good chance to defend yourself.

Most deaths in Australia are from natural, medical or vehicle accidents.
We dont have many planes dropping out of the sky.

Don ( Aussie )

there are a BUNCH of shooting sports that we enjoy here in the states.

so it doesn't wash that the ONLY thing you can do with a gun is shoot someone.

there are more countries in the world that take personal responsibility to a higher level then we do in the states. and as such they seem to have a safer society without firearms. that's their thing and more power to them. however we enjoy personal ownership of "guns" and you can comment all you want we won't give up that personal right.

[blastedbugler]

A couple of follow up comments.
To 3fan4life.
My comment re planes had nothing to do with 9/11.
Like most of the world I watched the horror unfold on that day & my thoughts went out to those affected on the day & since.
I can understand the USA reaction since then, and Australia was one of the countries that was upfront with the USA in it's fight against terror.
The USA and Australia have always had a special relationship since WW11 when your troups did so much in the south pacific.
Being 73 I can remember the air raid sirens going off as the Japanese planes came over.
We used to have slit trenches at my school.
Australia copped it early in the war.
Did you know that there were more bombs dropped on Darwin than on the attack on Pearl Harbour.
It just seems a pity that most of the arguements now days ( just like the last few thousand years ) are over religion.

In relation to disarming farmers.
They surrended their guns initially but then applied for permits for farm use which is an accepted reason.

Yes the bad guys still have the guns but at least they know like the rest of us that they are illegial and suffer the consequences if caught.
The ban on guns didnt stop deaths by shooting but it did reduce the numbers.

The main thing I wanted to point out is that it feels safe walking the streets.

[Skinhead]

There was a time even here in America when two people settled their differences more often than not with their fists. I think I may have grown up at the tail end of it. In school if you had a beef with someone you just squared up and went to town. Some people liked to wait until after school and meet up in a parking lot or at a field, a crowd would gather and they'd start swinging until someone called uncle or got knocked out (very, very rare). Personally I preferred to get it over with right away. I didn't like the whole "sitting around and waiting" thing. I feel bad for all of the teachers I put in the middle of that, but I was a teenager and wasn't thinking of them.

Now? I don't know why but a lot of people seem to think that guns are the first step. I think a lot of adults are just scared children inside.

Oh, your talking about a Bro down

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[The Anvil]

There was a time even here in America when two people settled their differences more often than not with their fists. I think I may have grown up at the tail end of it. In school if you had a beef with someone you just squared up and went to town. Some people liked to wait until after school and meet up in a parking lot or at a field, a crowd would gather and they'd start swinging until someone called uncle or got knocked out (very, very rare). Personally I preferred to get it over with right away. I didn't like the whole "sitting around and waiting" thing. I feel bad for all of the teachers I put in the middle of that, but I was a teenager and wasn't thinking of them.

Now? I don't know why but a lot of people seem to think that guns are the first step. I think a lot of adults are just scared children inside.

Oh, your talking about a Bro down
South Park- Bro Down! Bro Out!

Great episode.

[3fan4life]

A couple of follow up comments.
To 3fan4life.
My comment re planes had nothing to do with 9/11.
Like most of the world I watched the horror unfold on that day & my thoughts went out to those affected on the day & since.

That's cool,

It was just that the comment was so out of context that my mind went there.

Admittedly, as a Gulf War vet and a former firefighter I am probably over sensitive to all things about 9/11.

I'll gladly take you at your word and harbor no offense or ill feelings.

[Master Blaster]

I dont believe anyone needs to justify, apoligize, or make excuses for being pro gun.  Our founders, some very smart forward looking individuals ensured we would have that right.  Like Uncle Ted advocates, the 2nd amendment is all the gun permit that I feel is necessary.  Anything else is just more beaucracy and or tax on a freedom you already have.  Gun ownership is a lot like religion, you can embrace it or leave it alone, free choice for now, although like religion it is under attact by agenda driven entities.  If we dont stay vigilant we will be making excuses why we feel safer with no guns and or religion except what BHO approves. 

[Jess from VA]

Wonderfully ironic:

Justice Breyer robbed by machete-wielding intruder at West Indies vacation home

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/13/justice-breyer-robbed-at-west-indies-vacation-home/

One of the minority arseholes who writes in McDonald v. Chicago and District of Columbia v. Heller that the 2d Amendment does not create an individual fundamental right to firearms ownership (liar!!).

I guess he was armed with a wooden spoon and wet swim trunks (hopefully with poop in them).  Good for him.  

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Wonderfully ironic:

Justice Breyer robbed by machete-wielding intruder at West Indies vacation home

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/13/justice-breyer-robbed-at-west-indies-vacation-home/

One of the minority arseholes who writes in McDonald v. Chicago and District of Columbia v. Heller that the 2d Amendment does not create an individual fundamental right to firearms ownership (liar!!).

I guess he was armed with a wooden spoon and wet swim trunks (hopefully with poop in them).  Good for him.  

 

[YoungPUP]

Why is it that when someone gets shot all you hear about is outlaw the guns, but when someone is beaten to death with a 2x4 you hear nothing about trying to outlaw construction grade lumber.....

[Jeff K]

Why is it that when someone gets shot all you hear about is outlaw the guns, but when someone is beaten to death with a 2x4 you hear nothing about trying to outlaw construction grade lumber.....

Fires from Christmas decorations has killed hundreds of people. Surely banning Christmas trees would save lives!

[Jess from VA]

Why is it that when someone gets shot all you hear about is outlaw the guns, but when someone is beaten to death with a 2x4 you hear nothing about trying to outlaw construction grade lumber.....

I know humor was intended, but it is still a good question.

Lumber, motor vehicles, bicycles, boats (swimming), ladders, pills, hammers, and knives, are all inanimate objects which may be used to intentionally or accidentally kill people.  But these objects are not designed to kill, and people are not afraid of these objects.  A principle purpose of guns is to kill, and many who have never had any experience, history, tradition of gun ownership or use are afraid of them.  Fear often brings out the worst in people.  

Jeff Cooper (maybe the rifleman of the 20th century), called these people hoplophobes;  defined as people who have a "fear of firearms" and "fear of armed citizens".  'I am afraid of guns, I don't want any guns, I shouldn't have to use a gun to be safe in my life, and I don't want anyone else to have guns either.  I'll be SAFER this way.  I'll have less fear, and I'll feel better.'  

With this in mind, it is simply left wing policy to tax, control, regulate, limit, outlaw and confiscate anything that interferes in their version of an ordered and SAFE society (as ordered by them).  And this includes the fundamental SAFETY of everything you can think of  (see the Code of Federal Regulations; it is huge).  Of course, many of the rules are good and safety is an admirable pursuit. And of course, their version of ordered society has the population wholly dependent on government, not self.  The fact that personal firearm ownership is (in fact) necessary to remain as safe and free as possible is simply repugnant to the left's ideal of providing a cradle-to-grave regulation of it's citizenry in it's version of a safe and ordered society.  So they hate guns in private hands.... though they love them in uniform (where they can be ordered to do their bidding).

The fundamental flaw is that you cannot control ALL human behavior with rules and regulations.  You can do your best to make all objects/industry safe, but you cannot make humans safe, except by killing them (education, solid child rearing, church can help greatly, but no guarantee that a human won't go bad anyway).  If history teaches anything, it is that man is the most dangerous and unpredictable thing on the planet (and the smartest).  Sometimes he can only be controlled with brute force.  And if he bands together in groups or armies, there is a tremendous force multiplier and he can reek havoc (see world wars, genocide, holocaust).  And just two healthy adult males, unarmed but intending and clearly able to beat you to a pulp is considered a justifiable use of firearms in self defense.

We have our own police and armies, but the risk to the general citizenry from other humans remains serious, and always will.  The fact we maintain millions in uniform at taxpayer expense actually proves this point.  The human is not an endangered species either (and he likes to practice at reproduction even more than he likes to fight).  So an intelligent man will use everything at his disposal to make himself/family/others safe, and the only effective equalizer available against bad and often armed humans is firearms.  

Wealth is a substitute available to the few, who can build themselves a Fort Knox life, but the rest of us are on our own.  The risk from bad humans varies greatly based on geography, population, and culture where you live, but there is plenty of risk in most of the US.  And we are a mobile society.  And some people live where animals will eat them.

The intelligent man understands the risk and makes preparations to deal with the percentage of bad humans (criminals and those with a worm-in-the-head) that will always exist.  And the truth is that disarmament, rather than being the high road, is actually immoral by The People's government placing law abiding people at risk to a certain degree of death and mayhem that could lawfully be prevented by removing the only effective defensive tools available to protect themselves.  Only the law abiding are affected by disarmament.  I can understand and support any individual's choice to not be armed, but I will not tolerate my government making the decision for me (not with my Constitution).

I realize I'm mostly preaching to the choir here, but this is a subject I care about.

So I don't think we need to outlaw 2 X 4s, but maybe they should come with soft padding.

[Bigwolf]

   Good post Jess.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Very good post Jess. I sure miss Jeff Coopers monthly columns.

[RoadKill]

Why is it that when someone gets shot all you hear about is outlaw the guns, but when someone is beaten to death with a 2x4 you hear nothing about trying to outlaw construction grade lumber.....

I know humor was intended, but it is still a good question.
 But these objects are not designed to kill, and people are not afraid of these objects.  A principle purpose of guns is to kill, and many who have never had any experience, history, tradition of gun ownership or use are afraid of them.  
So I don't think we need to outlaw 2 X 4s, but maybe they should come with soft padding.

I disagree .  NONE of the guns I own or have EVER owned have had a "principal purpose " that involved killing!  How can anyone assume to know the intent or "principal purpose " of another persons property or even an inventors design or a manufacturers motivation ?  Persons with guns are not murders any more than people with polish sausages are pollacks!

[Jess from VA]

Why is it that when someone gets shot all you hear about is outlaw the guns, but when someone is beaten to death with a 2x4 you hear nothing about trying to outlaw construction grade lumber.....

I know humor was intended, but it is still a good question.
 But these objects are not designed to kill, and people are not afraid of these objects.  A principle purpose of guns is to kill, and many who have never had any experience, history, tradition of gun ownership or use are afraid of them.  
So I don't think we need to outlaw 2 X 4s, but maybe they should come with soft padding.

I disagree .  NONE of the guns I own or have EVER owned have had a "principal purpose " that involved killing!  How can anyone assume to know the intent or "principal purpose " of another persons property or even an inventors design or a manufacturers motivation ?  Persons with guns are not murders any more than people with polish sausages are pollacks!

Killing and murder are two different things my friend.  

Killing humans (lawfully in self defense) or animals (hunting) and target shooting/competition are the principle uses (purposes) of firearms.  Shooting to wound an assailant can be possible, but is not recommended; if you are not justified in using deadly force, shooting at all is inadvisable.  I have only shot targets and competition in over 40 years and I hunted a little (killing animals).  I have twice shown (drawn) a firearm to avoid a physical confrontation (I believe justifiably).  I never shot a human (or animal) in self defense....... but that is their principle purpose for me (and I think many).  

I said killing (including hunting) was a (one) principle purpose, not the principle purpose.

Murder is the unlawful taking of human life.  This is not a principle purpose to own a firearm.

What are the others (pounding nails, fishing)?

EDIT: I suppose collecting is another principle purpose.  Cowboy action shooting is just one form of target shooting/competition.

[RoadKill]

Why is it that when someone gets shot all you hear about is outlaw the guns, but when someone is beaten to death with a 2x4 you hear nothing about trying to outlaw construction grade lumber.....

I know humor was intended, but it is still a good question.
 But these objects are not designed to kill, and people are not afraid of these objects.  A principle purpose of guns is to kill, and many who have never had any experience, history, tradition of gun ownership or use are afraid of them.  
So I don't think we need to outlaw 2 X 4s, but maybe they should come with soft padding.

I disagree .  NONE of the guns I own or have EVER owned have had a "principal purpose " that involved killing!  How can anyone assume to know the intent or "principal purpose " of another persons property or even an inventors design or a manufacturers motivation ?  Persons with guns are not murders any more than people with polish sausages are pollacks!

Killing and murder are two different things my friend.  

Killing humans (lawfully in self defense) or animals (hunting) and target shooting/competition are the principle uses (purposes) of firearms.  Shooting to wound an assailant can be possible, but is not recommended; if you are not justified in using deadly force, shooting at all is inadvisable.  I have only shot targets and competition in over 40 years and I hunted a little (killing animals).  I have twice shown (drawn) a firearm to avoid a physical confrontation (I believe justifiably).  I never shot a human (or animal) in self defense....... but that is their principle purpose for me (and I think many).  

I said killing (including hunting) was a (one) principle purpose, not the principle purpose.

Murder is the unlawful taking of human life.  This is not a principle purpose to own a firearm.

What are the others (pounding nails, fishing)?  

There are MANY shooting sports that do not involve killing. Football and Golf are also sports but there is little comparison between them. Every one should learn sportsmanship and all the good life lessons that go with it. Not every one is athletic or able bodied enough for rugby but they could still learn from competitive sports. I doubt I will play alot of soccer in my late 60's but I hope to still teach a few things to the younger generation about competition and sportsmanship.  Check out the Cowboy action shooting sometime and notice how little of it is about killing.

Besides, most of my guns are just phalic symbols and I dont know what my tiny pecker or how I compensate has to do with killing!

[G-Man]

Your neighbour probably has an idea what kind of valuable stuff you have in your house and/or garage.  He could also probably figure out the comings and goings of everyone in your household, then post all this information on a sign in HIS yard.  Freedom of expression and conscience only matters when someone agrees with me.

Pretty much, yeah.

People have their opinions and they're entitled to them by the same document that provides you with your right to keep and bear arms. Posting a sign like that is childish.

Speaking of flag-flyers, nothing pisses me off like all of the jerkoffs who fly the American flag and leave it out in the rain and snow or out after sunset without illumination and allow it to become tattered and torn. I suspect these people fancy themselves as patriots. They're not.

Now, Now, Now.....

Unfortunately, the ignore feature on this board has a flaw.  You can still see their replies to other peoples posts.  This reply just reinforces my choice of ignoring what I can from him.  Imagine, someone being so full of horseshit that he feels HE can decide who loves his country and who doesn't.  I "fancy" that these flag flyers are nice people.  He's NOT.

[G-Man]

Before someone can buy a firearm, he or she must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued. In some states (e.g. Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a licence, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defense.[2]"

This is very similar to New York State.  You need to get a permit before you can buy.  You have to take a class and get 4 adults (not family) to complete a document describing their relationship to you and that you are not a menace to society, and it has to be notarized.  Then there are forms that you have to complete in triplicate and they won't accept copies.  Then you are called for an interview I believe.  A gun shop owner said the whole process could take 4 months.

If you're buying it for self defence, you'd be dead by then.   

[G-Man]

I respect anyone's right to not defend theirself against someone that intends to kill them.  If they do not want to harm any anyone even though that means they themselves will surely die, then that is their choice. 

But, you see, they don't believe it will ever happen to them.  I posted this in another thread.  An anti-gun friend and I got into it.  She wants guns outlawed because she is concerned that some nut will shoot her or her family.  When I told her I bet Dr. Petit wishes he had a gun so he could have defended his wife and daughter from rape and murder during a home invasion, she thought it preposterous and something about the boogie man coming to hurt you.  On one hand, she afraid, but on the other hand, she likens criminals to a childhood scare tactic that will never happen.

[MAD6Gun]

An anti-gun friend and I got into it.  She wants guns outlawed because she is concerned that some nut will shoot her or her family.  When I told her I bet Dr. Petit wishes he had a gun so he could have defended his wife and daughter from rape and murder during a home invasion, she thought it preposterous and something about the boogie man coming to hurt you.  On one hand, she afraid, but on the other hand, she likens criminals to a childhood scare tactic that will never happen.

In my opinion if you don't like guns or they scare you. DONT BUY ONE. Its as simple as that. But to be afraid of "the boogie man" or what might happen to you is just stupid. I read about a woman around Christmas time that lost her husband and had a new born. She was being stalked by a man that lived near her. He would not leave her alone. One night he started pounding on her door. When he broke though the front door she shot him with a shotgun. DEAD.

 Now Gary ask your anti-gun friend if this woman was justified in shooting this lowlife..