Just So We Are Clear...

[x]

How many of the founding fathers were Christian is irrelevant. I'm a Christian and I do not want religion influencing policy.

Otherwise, you end up with this.

[Reb]

Oh boy! oh boy! a religious thread! Never mind, I'm going to watch more Ancient Aliens 

[Bill]

I really love riding my Valk

[Panama]

Funny... I joined this forum, after buying my first Valkyrie, so I could learn more about the bike and people who ride them, and get to know the Valkyrie community.

I never imagined I'd learn so much about Political views on here, before I finish my 2nd cup of coffee this morning.

And by political views, I mean so many people arguing, bickering, bitching and over their own personal view, that seemingly must be proven................ on a Valkyrie forum.

[fon1961]

I really love riding my Valk

focusing on what we have in common...i like that

[Jess Tolbirt]

Funny... I joined this forum, after buying my first Valkyrie, so I could learn more about the bike and people who ride them, and get to know the Valkyrie community.

I never imagined I'd learn so much about Political views on here, before I finish my 2nd cup of coffee this morning.

And by political views, I mean so many people arguing, bickering, bitching and over their own personal view, that seemingly must be proven................ on a Valkyrie forum.

this here be called the general board,, thats like your living room..if you want to get to the technical side of things about the Valk then you have to go to the garage area and thats the tech board,,if you want to sell your valk then you have to run down to the car lot, that would be the classified section...any way thats the way i see it,,

[FLAVALK]

Why, why, why did I click on this thread 

[Alien]

A religion thread!  This will definetly bring people together.  What an excellent idea!   

I'm going to go ride my motorcycle now.

[flamingobabe #44]

Strong Eagle... you believe that church and state should be separte....why did you even post this? garbage...garbage...garbage

[Robert]

All you who dont want Christian values have got exactly what you wanted the godless mess we now have in the White House and Congress so enjoy. Sometimes you get what you asked for this includes you SE with your statements about what a bunch of whores and how much you loved working for the party you worked for. This is the best example of why we want true Christians in office. I really dont want to hear anymore bitching when the time comes to limit your freedom and the taxes and allowing wall st to rape America along with no punishment and actual rewards for the trillions of dollars in mortgage fraud that we will make up for. That our income is actually lower now than our fathers because of inflation and devaluation of the dollar yet the government says just the opposite. Teen pregnancies are up, we pay for illegals, that you dont have to work and can get a government hand out. That to big to fail comes to light and yet we as middle America get the shaft yet hear about the great thing our President has done to help, when in reality he did nothing or worse let off the very people who created the mess with 1/100000th a payback of what they stole. When our Presidents lack the morals of street trash and thats not supposed to influence their decisions. So to all enjoy I hope the change works for you.
  When you find out what real Christian values are and what it really means in someone life who cares then maybe we can talk, I am not talking about showboaters but the ones who really do hold to what the Bible says and sincerely out of their heart seek the Lord in all decisions. I think you can have all your ideas and SE hype about this issue because the change is killing America,

[The Anvil]

All you who dont want Christian values have got exactly what you wanted the godless mess we now have in the White House and Congress so enjoy. Sometimes you get what you asked for this includes you SE with your statements about what a bunch of whores and how much you loved working for the party you worked for. This is the best example of why we want true Christians in office. I really dont want to hear anymore bitching when the time comes to limit your freedom and the taxes and allowing wall st to rape America along with no punishment and actual rewards for the trillions of dollars in mortgage fraud that we will make up for. That to big to fail comes to light and yet we as middle America get the shaft yet hear about the great thing our President has done to help, when in reality he did nothing or worse let off the very people who created the mess with 1/100000th a payback of what they stole. So to all enjoy I hope the change works for you.
  When you find out what real Christian values are and what it really means in someone life who cares then maybe we can talk, I am not talking about showboaters but the ones who really do hold to what the Bible says and sincerely out of their heart seek the Lord in all decisions.

That is such a load of horseshit. I want good people in office. If they happen to be Christian as well then that's fine. But how many "Christians" have we seen roll through town that turn out to be nothing more than charlatans and snake-oil salesmen? Remember the last President we had? Where did his evangelical values and talk of god get us?

I'll take an accomplished good person over a failed "Christian" every time all the time.

[Robert]

Anvil I dont think you've seen a Christian President or someone who really lets those values rule their lives so you dont know what a real government would look like. We have heard from alot of snake oil salesmen as you put it but I haven't seen anyone really do more than a show. If you really are a Christian then I will ask you why am I wrong, what does the Bible say about the actions of these men in office now or maybe you dont know. How can men with no morals ,self-serving ,corrupt all of a sudden develop a goodness to be able understand people and not take advantage to sacrifice for the good of people and the country? Maybe they can get a conscious in a moment but more than likely it was gas it will pass too. To shun conflict of interests and not take advantage of the very system that they are supposed to watch out for. Not cave in to pressure of special interest groups to be honest about their promises and promotes laws and regs for the good of the people. To not give handouts of tax payer money to buy votes, Yea most in America got what they asked for but it in no way resembles true Christian values.

[x]

All you who dont want Christian values have got exactly what you wanted the godless mess we now have in the White House and Congress so enjoy. Sometimes you get what you asked for this includes you SE with your statements about what a bunch of whores and how much you loved working for the party you worked for. This is the best example of why we want true Christians in office. I really dont want to hear anymore bitching when the time comes to limit your freedom and the taxes and allowing wall st to rape America along with no punishment and actual rewards for the trillions of dollars in mortgage fraud that we will make up for. That our income is actually lower now than our fathers because of inflation and devaluation of the dollar yet the government says just the opposite. Teen pregnancies are up, we pay for illegals, that you dont have to work and can get a government hand out. That to big to fail comes to light and yet we as middle America get the shaft yet hear about the great thing our President has done to help, when in reality he did nothing or worse let off the very people who created the mess with 1/100000th a payback of what they stole. When our Presidents lack the morals of street trash and thats not supposed to influence their decisions. So to all enjoy I hope the change works for you.
  When you find out what real Christian values are and what it really means in someone life who cares then maybe we can talk, I am not talking about showboaters but the ones who really do hold to what the Bible says and sincerely out of their heart seek the Lord in all decisions. I think you can have all your ideas and SE hype about this issue because the change is killing America,

The last thing we need is a religious nut case in the White House.  What makes you think that only Christians have 'values'?  That's the problem with you folks... you assume that because I don't believe in some invisible make believe God that somehow I must possess inferior values.  Let's get mythology out of government and reason into it.  What's the point in praying to something that doesn't exist?  The "Lord"?  The last thing we need is politicians listening to voices in their heads.

[Dave Ritsema]

Seriously Guys??? You know what this is and you all went for the hook.

[The Anvil]

Anvil I dont think you've seen a Christian President or someone who really lets those values rule their lives so you dont know what a real government would look like.

Well dubya sure did talk the talk. Was he a GOOD Christian? Not really. But I'll bet he thinks otherwise. You know what? There are a lot of those people out there. Have fun sorting the wheat from the chaff. That's why I'd prefer they (politicians) not even bring up the subject of religion or try to wrap themselves in it. Let me practice what I want and they can practice what they want. Beyond that keep it out of government.

We have heard from alot of snake oil salesmen as you put it but I haven't seen anyone really do more than a show.

Oh that we're in agreement. So do you just ask that the "show" continue? Because as long as you allow that kind of thing to influence how you vote then that's all you're going to get; a show designed to get your vote. Focus on the substance of the man (or woman) rather than trying to find an affinity with them based on what god he/she prays to.

If you really are a Christian then I will ask you why am I wrong, what does the Bible say about the actions of these men in office now or maybe you dont know.

The bible says a lot of thins regarding the type of person who aspires to be a career politician. You'll have to be more specific. But I still don't want religion directly influencing policy. That's never going to change. If you're so thrilled about the idea of the US as a Christian nation then how about letting the Catholics run the show? Or maybe the Mormons? They're both Christian religions. Or are you going to tell me that they're not because of the Virgin Mary and Joseph Smith? Who's version of Christianity are we talking about here? Everyone's or only yours?

[The Anvil]

Seriously Guys??? You know what this is and you all went for the hook.

Every conversation centered around opinions is to some degree "trolling". So what? I enjoy the debate.

[x]

What's a "true Christian"?  Surely, this guy?

Or... hey... how about Rick Santorum... is he a "true Christian"?

http://www.juancole.com/2012/02/top-ten-catholic-teachings-santorum-rejects-while-obsessing-about-birth-control.html

Or... or... or maybe those Catholic Bishops can't be true Christians... yah?

[BF]

Wow.  The ignore button thingy really works.  Cool.   

[fon1961]

"just so we are clear..." one final thought regarding this thread.

http://debate.mortalguidance.com/welcome.htm;jsessionid=DDEE7F7AA92D5AC2538D34CA743FE546

[Jess Tolbirt]

i have to scroll back up and see what this topic was about to start with...

[Valkernaut]

When I was in my 20's/30/s, I believed almost all that was taught me by my church. I "knew" that I had been "born again, baptised and everything else I was taught" and had no doubt about going to heaven upon my death. Now, I am almost all the way thru my 70's and I realize that, just because I or YOU believe something does not make it the truth. As far as I know, no one has died and come back to tell us(so no one really knows) what is "out there". I'm just gonna wait and see....and ride my Valkyrie(soon as I get off my lazy behind and change my U-joint again('bout 35-50k the first time - have 100k on it now). Not really sure it's bad again, but that's what it feels like.

Jim

[musclehead]

All you who dont want Christian values have got exactly what you wanted the godless mess we now have in the White House and Congress so enjoy. Sometimes you get what you asked for this includes you SE with your statements about what a bunch of whores and how much you loved working for the party you worked for. This is the best example of why we want true Christians in office. I really dont want to hear anymore bitching when the time comes to limit your freedom and the taxes and allowing wall st to rape America along with no punishment and actual rewards for the trillions of dollars in mortgage fraud that we will make up for. That our income is actually lower now than our fathers because of inflation and devaluation of the dollar yet the government says just the opposite. Teen pregnancies are up, we pay for illegals, that you dont have to work and can get a government hand out. That to big to fail comes to light and yet we as middle America get the shaft yet hear about the great thing our President has done to help, when in reality he did nothing or worse let off the very people who created the mess with 1/100000th a payback of what they stole. When our Presidents lack the morals of street trash and thats not supposed to influence their decisions. So to all enjoy I hope the change works for you.
  When you find out what real Christian values are and what it really means in someone life who cares then maybe we can talk, I am not talking about showboaters but the ones who really do hold to what the Bible says and sincerely out of their heart seek the Lord in all decisions. I think you can have all your ideas and SE hype about this issue because the change is killing America,

The last thing we need is a religious nut case in the White House.  What makes you think that only Christians have 'values'?  That's the problem with you folks... you assume that because I don't believe in some invisible make believe God that somehow I must possess inferior values.  Let's get mythology out of government and reason into it.  What's the point in praying to something that doesn't exist?  The "Lord"?  The last thing we need is politicians listening to voices in their heads.

try to put some parameters on that statement. what constitutes a religious nut case in your opinion?
do you mean like the Phelps gang?

the voice in the head is usually a good rudder to steer by

[musclehead]

How many of the founding fathers were Christian is irrelevant. I'm a Christian and I do not want religion influencing policy.

Otherwise, you end up with this.

wow, projectionism psychology. conservatives believe in freedom, not keeping women from driving or having rights. this might be what the left believes in, but the right is fighting against sharia law.

[The Anvil]

How many of the founding fathers were Christian is irrelevant. I'm a Christian and I do not want religion influencing policy.

Otherwise, you end up with this.

wow, protectionism psychology. conservatives believe in freedom, not keeping women from driving or having rights. this might be what the left believes in, but the right is fighting against sharia law.

No, not really. The radical Christian right is very much into their own version of Sharia law where women have few rights. They only believe in freedoms that THEY approve of.

[Tropic traveler]

It is amazing to me how far some people will go to make a point that doesn't need making.

Once again I repeat.

[3fan4life]

The last thing we need is a religious nut case in the White House.  What makes you think that only Christians have 'values'?  That's the problem with you folks... you assume that because I don't believe in some invisible make believe God that somehow I must possess inferior values.  Let's get mythology out of government and reason into it.  What's the point in praying to something that doesn't exist?  The "Lord"?  The last thing we need is politicians listening to voices in their heads.

That is some pretty strong words for someone who that by all statistical data is as close to meeting their maker as you are.

And it goes a long way towards explaining why you are so bitter, miserable and disrespectful of your fellow man.

It would also seem to me that YOU ARE the one here who consistently refuses to RESPECT the spiritual beliefs of others (YOU started this thread).

Maybe the "Christians"  here should quit trying, maybe they should just "Give up" on you and write you off as a lost cause.

Then maybe they just aren't yet ready to tell you to "Go to Hell".

Which is a consideration that you obviously AREN"T willing to return.

   

[3fan4life]

No, not really. The radical Christian right is very much into their own version of Sharia law where women have few rights. They only believe in freedoms that THEY approve of.

Anvil,

Anyone that would treat women with a disdain that is anywhere near that of Sharia law might "Call" themselves a Christian.

But , I can assure that those who do so,  have NO understanding of how the Lord wants them to treat women.

[musclehead]

How many of the founding fathers were Christian is irrelevant. I'm a Christian and I do not want religion influencing policy.

Otherwise, you end up with this.

wow, protectionism psychology. conservatives believe in freedom, not keeping women from driving or having rights. this might be what the left believes in, but the right is fighting against sharia law.

No, not really. The radical Christian right is very much into their own version of Sharia law where women have few rights. They only believe in freedoms that THEY approve of.

I said conservatives, sheesh when did I say radical christians? (I did say right) 

[The Anvil]

No, not really. The radical Christian right is very much into their own version of Sharia law where women have few rights. They only believe in freedoms that THEY approve of.

Anvil,

Anyone that would treat women with a disdain that is anywhere near that of Sharia law might "Call" themselves a Christian.

But , I can assure that those who do so,  have NO understanding of how the Lord wants them to treat women.

Agreed. But unfortunately there are a lot of them out there and they tend to be some of the most vocal and active "Christians".

MH, "conservatives" paints with a pretty broad brush so that's fair game. For that matter, you don't have to be all that radical a conservative to be bigoted and ignorant (which is all Sharia law really is).

[Robert]

As usual most dont know what the Bible says about women beyond the donts which is most of what the church teaches. But something of interest in the Bible about women is the Proverbs 31 woman. I know few today that would not want this woman as a wife.

Pro 31:10  An excellent wife, who can find? For her worth is far above jewels.
Pro 31:11  The heart of her husband trusts in her, And he will have no lack of gain.
Pro 31:12  She does him good and not evil All the days of her life.
Pro 31:13  She looks for wool and flax And works with her hands in delight.
Pro 31:14  She is like merchant ships; She brings her food from afar.
Pro 31:15  She rises also while it is still night And gives food to her household And portions to her maidens.
Pro 31:16  She considers a field and buys it; From her earnings she plants a vineyard.
Pro 31:17  She girds herself with strength And makes her arms strong.
Pro 31:18  She senses that her gain is good; Her lamp does not go out at night.
Pro 31:19  She stretches out her hands to the distaff, And her hands grasp the spindle.
Pro 31:20  She extends her hand to the poor, And she stretches out her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21  She is not afraid of the snow for her household, For all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22  She makes coverings for herself; Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
Pro 31:23  Her husband is known in the gates, When he sits among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24  She makes linen garments and sells them, And supplies belts to the tradesmen.
Pro 31:25  Strength and dignity are her clothing, And she smiles at the future.
Pro 31:26  She opens her mouth in wisdom, And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
Pro 31:27  She looks well to the ways of her household, And does not eat the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28  Her children rise up and bless her; Her husband also, and he praises her, saying:
Pro 31:29  "Many daughters have done nobly, But you excel them all."
Pro 31:30  Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain, But a woman who fears the LORD, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31  Give her the product of her hands, And let her works praise her in the gates.

As I have said many times before read your Bible, know the Lord for yourself and dont be swayed by the ravings of man.

[Robert]

Women in the Bible are thought of very highly, God blessed Rehab a prostitute because she took in God servants and fed them so they wouldn't be killed. Esther changed the fate of a nation by addressing the King when he could have just as easily taken off her head. Ruth the model of caring and loyalty who God blessed abundantly and married Boaz. Nabal was a rich loathsome type of man and was married to Abigail
The man's name was Nabal, and his wife's name was Abigail. And the woman was intelligent and beautiful in appearance, but the man was harsh and evil in his dealings, and he was a Calebite),
  When David who had watched Nabals flock had come for what was deserved Nabal sent his servants away empty handed. Abigail perceived what was happening and quickly prepared food and money and sent it to David and stopped David from killing Nabal.
  Lets also be clear Moses may have had a shorter life had it not been for Zipporah his wife who stopped the Lord from killing Moses because Moses had disobeyed the Lord

There are so many more women held up in the Bible as models of how women should be. Yes there are also examples of how women and men should not be too. But why do the ones who call themselves Christians only know the bad examples and not the good ones?
   As usual disinformation and ignorance or a personal agenda and a corrupted spirit lead people despair.

    America is a Christian Nation and women have a prominent/respected role today and in the days of the Bible. How many more lies will we have to endure?

[musclehead]

No, not really. The radical Christian right is very much into their own version of Sharia law where women have few rights. They only believe in freedoms that THEY approve of.

Anvil,

Anyone that would treat women with a disdain that is anywhere near that of Sharia law might "Call" themselves a Christian.

But , I can assure that those who do so,  have NO understanding of how the Lord wants them to treat women.

Agreed. But unfortunately there are a lot of them out there and they tend to be some of the most vocal and active "Christians".

MH, "conservatives" paints with a pretty broad brush so that's fair game. For that matter, you don't have to be all that radical a conservative to be bigoted and ignorant (which is all Sharia law really is).

let me put a qualifiyer on that, conservative in my opinion means/equates to freedom loving. no that's probably not the definition of the left but in my own little world that what the word means to me.  I'm not talking radicals, im a conservative and I'm not bigoted or ignorant.