OK, chew on this. Current MRF Alert

[Momz]

US House Committee Passes HR 3199

Tuesday, Feburary 7th, the United States House of Representatives Committee on Science, Space and Technology passed HR 3199 - a bill that would require a comprehensive study of the scientific and technical research on the implications of fuel with more than 10 percent ethanol. Essentially, this bill would slow down the fast tracking of the fuel blend that is 15 percent or more ethanol. The Administration made it legal at the end of 2010 for fuel suppliers to sell the blend.

In an Opinon Editorial to the Hill newspaper, Rep. Sensenbrenner (WI) had this to say, "Many claims by E15's supporters are questionable. For instance, ethanol's proponents argue that ethanol is cheaper. But this claim ignores the fact that E15 lowers fuel efficiency. Since ethanol's energy content is just 70 percent of the energy content of gasoline, American drivers will be forced to make more trips to the pump, largely negating any savings from E15."

Sensenbrenner added, "As bad as E15 is for our cars, it is downright dangerous in small gasoline-based engines like those in our lawnmowers, boats and ATVs. E15 in a boat engine is like metal in a microwave. The United States Coast Guard warned that E15 in marine engines increases the risk of fires and explosions. And, "The EPA dismisses these concerns — from stakeholders within the government, no less — because these engines are not included in EPA's E15 waiver, but EPA is willfully ignoring inevitable issues with misfueling and lack of availability of fuel with lower ethanol content. At a Science Committee hearing last year, we examined the EPA's E15 decision, and witnesses testified that the agency cannot prevent misfueling."

We at the MRF are all for reducing our dependence on foreign oil and keeping the planet healthy, but the facts are not all in when it comes to the 15 percent blend when used in a motorcycle engine. In fact, the Motorcycle Industry Council has said that the blend could be harmful to motorcycles. The EPA went so far as to say that motorcycles are prohibited from using the new blend altogether.

Until further comprehensive study, such as required by this legislation, is conducted we must issue caution when using the new blend.

The MRF will keep you updated on this and every other issue effecting motorcyclists from Washington DC.

[bscrive]

I wish they would get rid of this ethanol crap and use the fields, to produce this crap, to feed people.  This ethanol crap just causes too many problems with our engines.  Someone is making too much money though.

[Momz]

Valks are tough, but this 15% ethanol blend will ruin your motor.
It will also lower your mileage by a significant amount.

[Gunslinger]

I wish they would get rid of this ethanol crap and use the fields, to produce this crap, to feed people.  This ethanol crap just causes too many problems with our engines.  Someone is making too much money though.

I'm not much interested in a plate full of feed corn.
Out of curiosity what problems specifically has this "ethanol crap" caused you?

[alph]

i will have to start paying the extra .20cents per gallon at certain stations that offer the ethanol free fuel to avoid buying the 15% crap!! 

[bscrive]

Hi Gunslinger,

I stopped using ethanol blended gasoline several years ago when I learned that the alcohol in the fuel will dry out the rubber seals that come in contact with the ethanol.  This means that your carb jets and gaskets will harden up and this could account for increase in the number of hydrolocks people seem to be having.  Where I live we have the choice to buy gas without ethanol blend, unfortunately it looks like some of the guys here don't have that choice.

As for the feed corn, ya, who wants eat that but did you know that corn destroys the land more than any other crop.  It rapes the land of it's nutrients and with repeated plantings it can make the land unusable for a long time.  Farmers, though, get more money from corn then from most other crops.  Thus, it is a great incentive for them to forget about planting other crops we need.  We don't need ethanol, it accounts for so little a percentage of the fuel used it is not worth the problems to our engines.

[rmrc51]

I'm using StarTron exclusively now not only in the Valk, but in every other gas engine I have to try and neutralize that ethanol crap! 

[R J]

Why is it that all of you have had nothing but problems with ethanol?

MGM gives me an average of 38.6 mpg, highway and city average.

MGM has 242K+ miles on him, engine has not be replaced, repaired or as some say their jets all clogged up.

Only when he is on the road and no ethanol is available does he get a taste of full bore gas.    Gas mileage does not go up using it.

I think someone got or had a problem, blew off steam and everyone took it from there, ethanol was blamed.    I realize, Iowa was one of the 1st states to implement 10%, then 15%, and finally E85.    E85, I do lose a mile or 2 per gallon in my truck, designed for Funny Fuel, aka Flex Fuel tag on tailgate., but almost a dollar a gallon less, I'll burn it in my truck.

Got my flame suit on so blast away..........

[John Schmidt]

I definitely noticed a difference in mileage. Non-ethanol stations in Florida are almost nonexistent so my first tank was laced with ethanol. In the interest of watching for mileage change, I clicked the dashboard computer over to see what it was, left it there the entire trip. I was running on fumes just before I got to the Alabama border so had to stop for a few $$ worth to get me across the border. The computer showed a range of 23.3-24.6 mpg on that first tank. Once into the Mobile area, I jumped off I-10 and  went looking for a small independent station near where my youngest daughter and family used to live. At one time they sold non-E gas, turned out they still did. I continued on my merry way with a fresh tank of non-E fuel and watched the computer. All the time I had the cruise set at 75, same as before, and within about 30 miles it was showing mpg of 25.8-27.0, depending on the topography. Straight and level, 75mph, a/c on, I would get a steady 26.4....pulling an empty motorcycle hauler trailer.

Coming back, same speed with a bike now loaded on the trailer, I still got in the mid-25 range. I finally had to fill up in Florida with our wonderful ethanol fuel, almost immediately the computer showed a drop to under 23....same cruise setting. About three years ago my wife and I went to Louisiana for Christmas, no trailer, just the two of us and two suitcases. Almost the exact scenario....23-24mpg in Fla. until I was able to get some "real" gas in Alabama, at which point it jumped nearly 3mpg, never went below 25+ and most of the time was in the upper 26 range. When absolutely straight and level in Louisiana, it registered over 27.

I realize the dash computer isn't 100% accurate, but it's a fairly good indicator. On this trip I did keep all my gas receipts and odometer readings out of curiosity, my next trip I'll try to remember to log it all and show it on here. There most definitely was a difference, my receipts supported it.

[Black Dog]

We in Wisconsin, have that 'corn juice' forced upon us, if we live within two counties of Lake Michigan.  Other parts of the state have it, but in many cases you can go with good ol' gas.

In my '03 Suburban (Flex Fuel, capable of running E85), I consistently get 13.5 - 15 mpg running on the Ethanol gas (the one time I filled up with E85, because it was less expensive, I got a disgusting 11mpg).  When I can get the pure gas, my mileage is consistently 15 - 17 mpg.  I have a trip computer on the truck, but rely on basic math...  Mileage divided by gallons of fuel.  I fill to the same spot every time, and while not scientific, I do see a better than 10% drop in mileage when burning the corn squeezings (where are we saving resources with this stuff?).

With my '97 Standard, the mileage still drops, but not as noticeable.  Where I do see a big difference, is in starting.  Good, pure gas = quick starts, no choke.  E-gas = harder starts, most times needing to choke.

Just pointing out my observations, and wanted to add that my 60 hp Merc outboard, and my SmokerCraft boat, both advise against using 10% Ethanol, and recommend filling with pure, non E gas, as soon as possible, if E-gas is the only thing available.  I've never run anything but non E gas in that boat.

JMHO, and remember YMMV

Black Dog

[Red Diamond]

04 GMC Yukon, 159K miles, run on nothing but 10% E, no problems yet. Have used nothing but Mobil 1 in the crankcase. I went on a trip to Marksville, La.. couple months ago (340 roundtrip), noticed the non-Ethonal gas, filled the I/S up with the good stuff. I forgot to check the difference, in fact, never noticed any difference to notice. That Valkyrie simply doesn't care, get my 40MPG every time on the I/S and my 34 or so on the Tourer.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I wish they would get rid of this ethanol crap and use the fields, to produce this crap, to feed people.  This ethanol crap just causes too many problems with our engines.  Someone is making too much money though.

I'm not much interested in a plate full of feed corn.
Out of curiosity what problems specifically has this "ethanol crap" caused you?

Just curious do you grow corn for ethanol ? If so I can see your point of view I've noticed both you and Dale defend ethanol and Kansas grow's some corn     I heard on the radio one day that 44 % of all corn grown in America goes to making ethanol.

[czuch]

I miss the 60's. Remember the smell of REAL gas? That was livin there.
Wasnt  a habit or nuthin, I was a kid and made a bundle mowin lawns.
MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmreeeaaalll gaaaaassssss.

[Robert]

I miss the 60's. Remember the smell of REAL gas? That was livin there.
Wasnt  a habit or nuthin, I was a kid and made a bundle mowin lawns.
MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmreeeaaalll gaaaaassssss.

I so agree with you, they should make a colonge that smells like it LOL.
    Ethanol is to be blamed for ruining fuel pumps, delaminating fuel tanks in boats, allow water in fuel injection systems and turns the hoses on some out door equipment to a gooey mess, not to mention toasts some of the engines just to name a few that I have personally seen.The problem is more than just the effects of the fuel itself. There  seems to be problem in mixing it in the right proportions and gas stations that dont keep a absolutely clean fuel tanks also cause problems. This leads to not only water and contaminates in the fuel but concentrations way higher than allowed. Not to mention it absorbs water and will rot out tanks if left in that condition and if the water separates from the fuel will rust or corrode any internal part it comes in contact with. Id swear that the ph level in the water that seperates is like acid from some of the damage I have seen. Pulled a motorcycle carb apart and almost had to replace the jets there was a green deposit all over the jets that took a acid wash to get it off. The needles were frozen in the seats and wouldn't budge. I cant really see anything that is of benefit to ethanol except those that line their pockets with the profit.  I am actually happy that at least something good is happening and maybe they wont allow this to continue.

[The Anvil]

That it will hurt fuel efficiency negating the lower cost is a fact. Furthermore, modern industrial farming techniques are hardly environmentally friendly. You're trading one environmental nightmare for another, that's all.

However, it is NOT a fact (by any stretch) that it WILL damage your engine. That depends on the design. I actually think that being relatively low compression and naturally cool-running the Valk engine will tolerate it without issues. My 954RR or Buell X1? Notsomuch.

[Robert]

Ethanol is a excellent solvent and will dissolve plastic rubber certain types of fiberglass and even aluminum. It is also a drying agent and can dissolve parts. I have seen rubber seals swell . All major marine and auto manufacturers limit the amount of ethanol to 10%. Aircraft agencies ban the use of alcohol blended fuels and are exempt from using it. Many motors especially older engines are constructed with parts that become very brittle over time and cannot withstand the effects of alcohol. When e10 is used, engine components can disintegrate over time and clog the engine with sludge and grime causing the engine to lock up. Most outdoor power equipment manufactures recommend not using it. When engines are destroyed this way usually the only thing to do is replace it. Boats have to seal the fuel tanks and systems because being on the water they will absorb water. Also ethanol gas will only stay good for a max of 3 months under ideal conditions. Also if all this is not enough to sway you it actually costs more to produce than gas but is subsidized by the government. In fact some ethanol refineries have already gone bankrupt and been picked up by those pushing the idea.

[alph]

Ethanol is a excellent solvent and will dissolve plastic rubber certain types of fiberglass and even aluminum. It is also a drying agent and can dissolve parts. I have seen rubber seals swell . All major marine and auto manufacturers limit the amount of ethanol to 10%. Aircraft agencies ban the use of alcohol blended fuels and are exempt from using it. Many motors especially older engines are constructed with parts that become very brittle over time and cannot withstand the effects of alcohol. When e10 is used, engine components can disintegrate over time and clog the engine with sludge and grime causing the engine to lock up. Most outdoor power equipment manufactures recommend not using it. When engines are destroyed this way usually the only thing to do is replace it. Boats have to seal the fuel tanks and systems because being on the water they will absorb water. Also ethanol gas will only stay good for a max of 3 months under ideal conditions. Also if all this is not enough to sway you it actually costs more to produce than gas but is subsidized by the government. In fact some ethanol refineries have already gone bankrupt and been picked up by those pushing the idea.

i wonder if people that expierence "hyrdo-lock" live in e10 only area's?

[Jess from VA]

I think ethanol should be pounded up congress' ass. 

I want gasoline!

[fon1961]

sorry i was too lazy to summarize but you might be interested in reading this link.  it's consistent (for the most part) with other concerns that i've read about.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/171999-the-effects-of-ethanol-on-auto-engines/

[GreenLantern57]

OK so you will not eat feeder corn, but think about this. It is called feeder corn, because it is used for animal feed. Now if that price goes up so up goes the animal price.  Cheaper feeder corn would allow meat prices to come back down. Without government gaurantees ethanol is not cheaper to produce. It is actually more expensive than gasoline to produce. Last time I saw a report on ethanol production, it took almost as much BTU to produce it as ethanol contains. Ethanol is not going to save the planet.

Best ethanol product would be the sawgrass variety. At least that will not affect my steak prices.

As far as having huge amount of miles and there is no problem. You are constantly adding fresh fuel. That and good maintanence is how you have no problems. Most of the problems I hear of are from equipment that sits and maybe asorbs water.