Trayvon Martin Matter . . . Opinions

[Thespian]

I have an opinion on this situation, I COULD CARE EVEN LESS THAN I DO NOW.......

 Then you sir, are an @ss!

[donaldcc]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Gun control, "Stand your Ground" defense (originated in FL, now in about 1/2 the states), racial profiling, death of a 17 yo, now state, federal agencies investigating.   The President expressing concern.  All seem to be important issues.

  Sounds as if you were former LEO.  If these do not seem important to you, then maybe good you are not on "the force".  Chill out dude.

MODIFY:  and turn off the caps.

[2KVALKRIDER]

Thespian, donaldcc

Yes I'm an @ss, the who had to deal with these types of case on a daily basis.

I'm the @ss who had to go to mom and dads house at 3 a.m. and tell them their son is not coming home because of a senseless shooting, robbery, etc.

Im the @ss who had to pick up the bodies and bag them. I'm the @ss who had to appear in court everyday, and then come home try to sleep and  have nightmares about death all the time, yes I'm an @ss.

 You can only take so much of it, but when you come home, and hear about a robbery, a rape, a chase on the news, or someone talking in front of at the store or in a Restaurant about crime, can't seem to get rid of your nightmares, it follows you where you go. when I come here,(VRCC) this is what I want to get away from. Yes, I'm an @ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm chillin  !!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff K]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I can relate to the frustration. I pretty much feel the same way about reality TV and the Kardashians. But something like this is kind of important.

Why?
Thousands of people killed, and for some reason THIS is the center of attention for the entire country?
Political BS. This is nothing more than Political and racial grandstanding. This happened a MONTH AGO. But now it's big news. Why? Gun control. The Liberal media and this administration want gun control. There are thousands and thousands of victims families asking themselves "why is he so much more important than my Son\Daughter\Wife...?"
This should be handled by law enforcement not by the court of Al Sharpton or Judge Obama.
I can't believe the number of people that believe that the shooter was hoping for a reason to shoot someone. Yeah, I remember the day My CCW permit came in the mail, the first thing that came to my mind was "now i get to kill somebody".  
There isn't even a remote possibility that this shooter could get a "fair" trial at this point. They are going to have to convict him just to squelch the media and the court of public opinion.
I wonder why it is that the media decides who gets a "fair" trial. Casey Anthony is a prime example, this is on it's way to dwarfing that debacle. Both of the people in this situation are doomed. One died, the other might as well be dead. Louis Farrakhan is already calling for vigilante justice.
Lots of people with opinions, most have the the shooter convicted without any "due process" at all.

[Bob E.]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I can relate to the frustration. I pretty much feel the same way about reality TV and the Kardashians. But something like this is kind of important.

Why?
Thousands of people killed, and for some reason THIS is the center of attention for the entire country?
Political BS. This is nothing more than Political and racial grandstanding. This happened a MONTH AGO. But now it's big news. Why? Gun control. The Liberal media and this administration want gun control. There are thousands and thousands of victims families asking themselves "why is he so much more important than my Son\Daughter\Wife...?"
This should be handled by law enforcement not by the court of Al Sharpton or Judge Obama.
I can't believe the number of people that believe that the shooter was hoping for a reason to shoot someone. Yeah, I remember the day My CCW permit came in the mail, the first thing that came to my mind was "now i get to kill somebody".  
There isn't even a remote possibility that this shooter could get a "fair" trial at this point. They are going to have to convict him just to squelch the media and the court of public opinion.
I wonder why it is that the media decides who gets a "fair" trial. Casey Anthony is a prime example, this is on it's way to dwarfing that debacle. Both of the people in this situation are doomed. One died, the other might as well be dead. Louis Farrakhan is already calling for vigilante justice.
Lots of people with opinions, most have the the shooter convicted without any "due process" at all.

The problem was that law enforcement wasn't handling it.  And after being frustrated for so long, the parents went to the media and their state reps for help.  When the details became public, it started a groundswell of public, media, and political outrage.  The state reps and the city mayor went to the feds for help because they couldn't get any action locally. Obama didn't start this.  The local representative and mayor went to the Fed Justice department...not the other way around.

Also, I would state that Zimmerman may have totally been in the right.  But without it entering the judicial system, that cannot even be determined.  The outrage isn't over gun control.  The outrage is over the lack of justice and apparent lack of action by the police department because they are claiming the "stand your ground" law...when just from the 911 tapes, you can see that doesn't apply...or should at least raise enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and enter the court system.

[Jeff K]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I can relate to the frustration. I pretty much feel the same way about reality TV and the Kardashians. But something like this is kind of important.

Why?
Thousands of people killed, and for some reason THIS is the center of attention for the entire country?
Political BS. This is nothing more than Political and racial grandstanding. This happened a MONTH AGO. But now it's big news. Why? Gun control. The Liberal media and this administration want gun control. There are thousands and thousands of victims families asking themselves "why is he so much more important than my Son\Daughter\Wife...?"
This should be handled by law enforcement not by the court of Al Sharpton or Judge Obama.
I can't believe the number of people that believe that the shooter was hoping for a reason to shoot someone. Yeah, I remember the day My CCW permit came in the mail, the first thing that came to my mind was "now i get to kill somebody".  
There isn't even a remote possibility that this shooter could get a "fair" trial at this point. They are going to have to convict him just to squelch the media and the court of public opinion.
I wonder why it is that the media decides who gets a "fair" trial. Casey Anthony is a prime example, this is on it's way to dwarfing that debacle. Both of the people in this situation are doomed. One died, the other might as well be dead. Louis Farrakhan is already calling for vigilante justice.
Lots of people with opinions, most have the the shooter convicted without any "due process" at all.

The problem was that law enforcement wasn't handling it.  And after being frustrated for so long, the parents went to the media and their state reps for help.  When the details became public, it started a groundswell of public, media, and political outrage.  The state reps and the city mayor went to the feds for help because they couldn't get any action locally. Obama didn't start this.  The local representative and mayor went to the Fed Justice department...not the other way around.

Also, I would state that Zimmerman may have totally been in the right.  But without it entering the judicial system, that cannot even be determined.  The outrage isn't over gun control.  The outrage is over the lack of justice and apparent lack of action by the police department because they are claiming the "stand your ground" law...when just from the 911 tapes, you can see that doesn't apply...or should at least raise enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and enter the court system.

Coming from someone LIVING in FLORIDA let me assure you this manufactured rage is about two things. Repeal of stand your ground, and race. Race was the number one issue until the "facts" that the media was spoon feeding us turned out to be race baiting. When it happened the local news never said anything about race, then it suddenly one month later turned into a hate crime of white on black violence. Now a week later, oops, he is Hispanic? Darn facts getting in the way of a news story all the time.
AGAIN where is the outrage for the thousands of people murdered every year? This one makes for great political fodder. And the media is all over it. Now the shooter and his lawyer are getting death threats. Funny how all of those accusing this man of vigilante justice are all wanting to take matters into their own hands. I read this morning that they don't believe this will go to a grand jury. The media will be outraged about that. They need a big story. Casey is out of the news they are bored.

[The Anvil]

Why?
Thousands of people killed, and for some reason THIS is the center of attention for the entire country?
Political BS. This is nothing more than Political and racial grandstanding.

If it were your kid would you not seek attention and justice? If the proper authorities had just handled this in the first place then this would be treated as the murder of a black youth (and you'd have never heard about it).

It's important because there's a very basic fight going on here (the outcome of which) can potentially affect everyone here. Will ordinary residents of "gated" communities be empowered to act as defacto law enforcement and detain regular people and use deadly force to ensure that they comply or will the rights of regular people to come and go as they see fit be affirmed? Will the fallout have far reaching implications in terms of gun control and modification of castle doctrine and similar laws? Trivia time: who said it?

"Deadly assault weapons have no place in (redacted), these guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

The idea that a person with a gun wouldn't go looking to shoot someone is hopelessly naive. In case you haven't noticed it happens a lot. I think it's highly possible. But more likely he was just trying to exercise a measure of control over someone else and bit off more than he could chew (because his weapon swelled his testicles) and he resorted to deadly force out of anger or even genuine fear. But even if he did fear for his life he had no authority to accost or attempt to detain him. We have people (the police) for that.

Citing the Casey Anthony trial completely nullifies your argument that Zimmerman is doomed. Casey Anthony was guilty. 100% guilty (as was OJ). There was no public pressure to let her off but for some reason they did anyway. Zimmerman's fate is in no way sealed.

2K, if you don't like the topic then don't read it. It was spelled out in the title. This is the General Discussion forum and it's not just about bikes.

[The Anvil]

Coming from someone LIVING in FLORIDA let me assure

Actually that doesn't really give you any useful insight. In fact it probably clouds your judgment as opposed to someone viewing it from a distance.

Thousands of people are murdered every year. Yeah, we got that. I actually see lots of murders in the news. It's not as if the news cycle completely ignores murders. But it's the WAY this happened and the authorities willingness to sweep it under the rug that makes this national news. If you can't understand the difference between a guy getting shot in a liquor store robbery and this then that's your failing.

[Bob E.]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I can relate to the frustration. I pretty much feel the same way about reality TV and the Kardashians. But something like this is kind of important.

Why?
Thousands of people killed, and for some reason THIS is the center of attention for the entire country?
Political BS. This is nothing more than Political and racial grandstanding. This happened a MONTH AGO. But now it's big news. Why? Gun control. The Liberal media and this administration want gun control. There are thousands and thousands of victims families asking themselves "why is he so much more important than my Son\Daughter\Wife...?"
This should be handled by law enforcement not by the court of Al Sharpton or Judge Obama.
I can't believe the number of people that believe that the shooter was hoping for a reason to shoot someone. Yeah, I remember the day My CCW permit came in the mail, the first thing that came to my mind was "now i get to kill somebody".  
There isn't even a remote possibility that this shooter could get a "fair" trial at this point. They are going to have to convict him just to squelch the media and the court of public opinion.
I wonder why it is that the media decides who gets a "fair" trial. Casey Anthony is a prime example, this is on it's way to dwarfing that debacle. Both of the people in this situation are doomed. One died, the other might as well be dead. Louis Farrakhan is already calling for vigilante justice.
Lots of people with opinions, most have the the shooter convicted without any "due process" at all.

The problem was that law enforcement wasn't handling it.  And after being frustrated for so long, the parents went to the media and their state reps for help.  When the details became public, it started a groundswell of public, media, and political outrage.  The state reps and the city mayor went to the feds for help because they couldn't get any action locally. Obama didn't start this.  The local representative and mayor went to the Fed Justice department...not the other way around.

Also, I would state that Zimmerman may have totally been in the right.  But without it entering the judicial system, that cannot even be determined.  The outrage isn't over gun control.  The outrage is over the lack of justice and apparent lack of action by the police department because they are claiming the "stand your ground" law...when just from the 911 tapes, you can see that doesn't apply...or should at least raise enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and enter the court system.

Coming from someone LIVING in FLORIDA let me assure you this manufactured rage is about two things. Repeal of stand your ground, and race. Race was the number one issue until the "facts" that the media was spoon feeding us turned out to be race baiting. When it happened the local news never said anything about race, then it suddenly one month later turned into a hate crime of white on black violence. Now a week later, oops, he is Hispanic? Darn facts getting in the way of a news story all the time.
AGAIN where is the outrage for the thousands of people murdered every year? This one makes for great political fodder. And the media is all over it. Now the shooter and his lawyer are getting death threats. Funny how all of those accusing this man of vigilante justice are all wanting to take matters into their own hands. I read this morning that they don't believe this will go to a grand jury. The media will be outraged about that. They need a big story. Casey is out of the news they are bored.

You are right in that there are lots of stories of people getting killed out there that you never hear about.  For some reason, some gain more attention than others.  This is one of those cases.  The interesting thing is that oftentimes, the criticism flows the opposite direction in terms of race in that, the stories that gain the most traction often are the ones with wealthier white, often female, victims of crimes committed by blacks or other minorities.  And the criticism has always been...if that were a poor black victim, you wouldn't even hear about it.  This story bucks that trend.  I don't know why that is.  From the interviews I've seen on tv, the parents appear to be middle or perhaps even upper middle class and likely well educated...at least from how they've conducted themselves.  So perhaps they just had the financial and intellectual ability to gain the attention.

[MNBill]

"The problem was that law enforcement wasn't handling it."
Hey BobE, how do you know that. Was it Sharpton or the press that told you? If you wanted to pull up a phone call recording of your last cell phone call could you do it?? All sounds like alot of people playing the press at the expense of this poor family to me. Any reason to get attention for some of these folks.  It is VERY frustrating for LE to know the facts but to have to keep their mouths shut to protect the integrity of an investigation.

[The Anvil]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I can relate to the frustration. I pretty much feel the same way about reality TV and the Kardashians. But something like this is kind of important.

Why?
Thousands of people killed, and for some reason THIS is the center of attention for the entire country?
Political BS. This is nothing more than Political and racial grandstanding. This happened a MONTH AGO. But now it's big news. Why? Gun control. The Liberal media and this administration want gun control. There are thousands and thousands of victims families asking themselves "why is he so much more important than my Son\Daughter\Wife...?"
This should be handled by law enforcement not by the court of Al Sharpton or Judge Obama.
I can't believe the number of people that believe that the shooter was hoping for a reason to shoot someone. Yeah, I remember the day My CCW permit came in the mail, the first thing that came to my mind was "now i get to kill somebody".  
There isn't even a remote possibility that this shooter could get a "fair" trial at this point. They are going to have to convict him just to squelch the media and the court of public opinion.
I wonder why it is that the media decides who gets a "fair" trial. Casey Anthony is a prime example, this is on it's way to dwarfing that debacle. Both of the people in this situation are doomed. One died, the other might as well be dead. Louis Farrakhan is already calling for vigilante justice.
Lots of people with opinions, most have the the shooter convicted without any "due process" at all.

The problem was that law enforcement wasn't handling it.  And after being frustrated for so long, the parents went to the media and their state reps for help.  When the details became public, it started a groundswell of public, media, and political outrage.  The state reps and the city mayor went to the feds for help because they couldn't get any action locally. Obama didn't start this.  The local representative and mayor went to the Fed Justice department...not the other way around.

Also, I would state that Zimmerman may have totally been in the right.  But without it entering the judicial system, that cannot even be determined.  The outrage isn't over gun control.  The outrage is over the lack of justice and apparent lack of action by the police department because they are claiming the "stand your ground" law...when just from the 911 tapes, you can see that doesn't apply...or should at least raise enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and enter the court system.

Coming from someone LIVING in FLORIDA let me assure you this manufactured rage is about two things. Repeal of stand your ground, and race. Race was the number one issue until the "facts" that the media was spoon feeding us turned out to be race baiting. When it happened the local news never said anything about race, then it suddenly one month later turned into a hate crime of white on black violence. Now a week later, oops, he is Hispanic? Darn facts getting in the way of a news story all the time.
AGAIN where is the outrage for the thousands of people murdered every year? This one makes for great political fodder. And the media is all over it. Now the shooter and his lawyer are getting death threats. Funny how all of those accusing this man of vigilante justice are all wanting to take matters into their own hands. I read this morning that they don't believe this will go to a grand jury. The media will be outraged about that. They need a big story. Casey is out of the news they are bored.

You are right in that there are lots of stories of people getting killed out there that you never hear about.  For some reason, some gain more attention than others.  This is one of those cases.  The interesting thing is that oftentimes, the criticism flows the opposite direction in terms of race in that, the stories that gain the most traction often are the ones with wealthier white, often female, victims of crimes committed by blacks or other minorities.  And the criticism has always been...if that were a poor black victim, you wouldn't even hear about it.  This story bucks that trend.  I don't know why that is.  From the interviews I've seen on tv, the parents appear to be middle or perhaps even upper middle class and likely well educated...at least from how they've conducted themselves.  So perhaps they just had the financial and intellectual ability to gain the attention.

If Casey and Caylee Anthony were black would we ever have heard about it? Maybe, but only fleetingly. If Scott and Laci Peterson were a black couple would we have heard of it? What if Scott Peterson were black and Laci was white???

It's a fact; the media treats crimes differently depending upon the race of those involved. 50 years ago in the south (hell, in most of the country) Mr. Zimmerman would have been hailed as a hero. I like to think we've come to our senses a bit.

[Bob E.]

"The problem was that law enforcement wasn't handling it."
Hey BobE, how do you know that. Was it Sharpton or the press that told you? If you wanted to pull up a phone call recording of your last cell phone call could you do it?? All sounds like alot of people playing the press at the expense of this poor family to me. Any reason to get attention for some of these folks.  It is VERY frustrating for LE to know the facts but to have to keep their mouths shut to protect the integrity of an investigation.

Obviously, I get most of my info from the press as does everyone else.  Where else would I get it?  As to what I know...or actually what my opinion is I guess, if you look at what has happened, from the fact that an unarmed kid was shot, it has been 1 month and no arrest of the admitted killer, the release of the 911 tapes that suggest he should have been arrested, the local city council voting "no confidence" in their police cheif (and maybe the entire department), the local mayor and state rep going to the fed justice department for help, the appointment of a special prosecutor by the governor...There are lots of things that have nothing to do with Sharpton that indicate that lots of people believe the local police dropped the ball.

[Chrisj CMA]

"The problem was that law enforcement wasn't handling it."
Hey BobE, how do you know that. Was it Sharpton or the press that told you? If you wanted to pull up a phone call recording of your last cell phone call could you do it?? All sounds like alot of people playing the press at the expense of this poor family to me. Any reason to get attention for some of these folks.  It is VERY frustrating for LE to know the facts but to have to keep their mouths shut to protect the integrity of an investigation.

Obviously, I get most of my info from the press as does everyone else.  Where else would I get it?  As to what I know...or actually what my opinion is I guess, if you look at what has happened, from the fact that an unarmed kid was shot, it has been 1 month and no arrest of the admitted killer, the release of the 911 tapes that suggest he should have been arrested, the local city council voting "no confidence" in their police cheif (and maybe the entire department), the local mayor and state rep going to the fed justice department for help, the appointment of a special prosecutor by the governor...There are lots of things that have nothing to do with Sharpton that indicate that lots of people believe the local police dropped the ball.

I agree with this........plus the improper calling upon the stand your ground law for the shooters excuse to shoot and the cops excuse to do nothing should be addressed, officers disciplined and retrained but LEAVE THE FL CASTLE LAW ALONE  Its a good law, there are always going to be idiots.....cant legislate them away

[Jeff K]

Why?
Thousands of people killed, and for some reason THIS is the center of attention for the entire country?
Political BS. This is nothing more than Political and racial grandstanding.

If it were your kid would you not seek attention and justice? If the proper authorities had just handled this in the first place then this would be treated as the murder of a black youth (and you'd have never heard about it).

It's important because there's a very basic fight going on here (the outcome of which) can potentially affect everyone here. Will ordinary residents of "gated" communities be empowered to act as defacto law enforcement and detain regular people and use deadly force to ensure that they comply or will the rights of regular people to come and go as they see fit be affirmed? Will the fallout have far reaching implications in terms of gun control and modification of castle doctrine and similar laws? Trivia time: who said it?

"Deadly assault weapons have no place in (redacted), these guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

The idea that a person with a gun wouldn't go looking to shoot someone is hopelessly naive. In case you haven't noticed it happens a lot. I think it's highly possible. But more likely he was just trying to exercise a measure of control over someone else and bit off more than he could chew (because his weapon swelled his testicles) and he resorted to deadly force out of anger or even genuine fear. But even if he did fear for his life he had no authority to accost or attempt to detain him. We have people (the police) for that.

Citing the Casey Anthony trial completely nullifies your argument that Zimmerman is doomed. Casey Anthony was guilty. 100% guilty (as was OJ). There was no public pressure to let her off but for some reason they did anyway. Zimmerman's fate is in no way sealed.

2K, if you don't like the topic then don't read it. It was spelled out in the title. This is the General Discussion forum and it's not just about bikes.

And there you are folks, Anvil's cry for proper justice. Justice that was properly dispensed like the Casey and OJ trials.
The public out cry has little to do with fair outcome of a trial.

And you have no problem convicting from your comfy chair with only the "facts" you find on the internet.
Your sweeping generalizations are handy too. I am naive to think that not all CCW carriers are looking for someone to kill (I believe you maybe be a wanton killer too base on your gun ownership?) ? The guy had been carrying for years. I guess maybe it just took him this long to find a lone black guy to shoot?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the shooter. Mainly because I don't have all the facts. You on the other hand don't mind shooting of your mouth half cocked making generalizations and assumptions.

Reports from the neighbors are supporting the shooters story. Funny how that isn't making the national news.

Saying it wasn't being handled properly is not true. It had been turned over to the States DA for further investigation.
But this isn't good enough for the media and the court of public opinion. They want an arrest and conviction TODAY!


"Orlando Sentinel

Posted: 10:02 a.m. Friday, March 16, 2012

Police on Tuesday turned the case over to the State Attorney's Office, saying they did not have evidence to justify George Zimmerman's arrest on a charge of manslaughter.

Prosecutors will now likely spend several weeks studying the case before making a decision on whether to charge Zimmerman.

Sanford police Chief Bill Lee Jr. told the Sentinel on Thursday night that he has invited the U.S. Department of Justice and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to review the investigation.

"It's an open book," Lee said. "If they want to look at what we did and how we did it and what information we have, they're welcome to it."

The FDLE has received a letter from the State Attorney's Office asking agents to review the case, spokeswoman Gretl Plessinger said.

[The Anvil]

Reports from the neighbors are supporting the shooters story. Funny how that isn't making the national news.

Are they really? Well why don't you provide us with some of those. Because I've not heard a single one. But they must be out there since you have heard them.

But even if the kid told Mr. Zimmerman to eff-off and resisted his efforts to detain him he was well within his rights to do so. Not a single one of us under any obligation to to the "authority" (which is nonexistent) of a neighborhood watch. That's the bottom line.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I think the worst thing about it is the way it's being played as a racial shooting. My understanding is that the shooter was Hispanic and from a multiracial family. Why do we always have to play the race card? Why are they playing on racial fears to turn this into something it probably wasn't.

So far it really sounds like just errors committed all the way around. Perhaps the neighborhood watch guy shouldn't have been following him but if he looked suspicious it's easy to see why he was.

Also easy to see how the guy being followed could have thought the neighborhood watch guy was a criminal about to mug him. Which makes it easy to see how he could have attacked the guy following him without giving him a chance to explain. And, it's easy to see how once he was attacked the neighborhood watch guy could have pulled his gun and fired.

I don't know that that's how it came down but from what I've read it very well could be. Looks to me like a sad tragedy being made into something it's not by people with an agenda. I'm anxious to see how the investigation plays out. I suspect that both the shooter and the dead guy are going to wind up being victims of politics.

I do think we should all take from this how easy it would to assume someone is a criminal who isn't. And, how easy it would be for the person you're watching to assume you are a criminal because you are watching him.

[The Anvil]

I think the worst thing about it is the way it's being played as a racial shooting. My understanding is that the shooter was Hispanic and from a multiracial family. Why do we always have to play the race card? Why are they playing on racial fears to turn this into something it probably wasn't.

I don't think it's a race issue in the sense that he shot him because he was black. But you have to wonder, did he treat him with suspicion because of his skin color? That's far more likely. Had Trayvon Martin become fed up with his skin color drawing stares and accusations? That's also possible which would explain why he might react poorly to being questioned when he had every legal right to be there. Fact is; it's more likely than not that there was SOME component of racial animosity or at least, ignorance. But that's just an unfortunate fact in the world we live in.

So far it really sounds like just errors committed all the way around. Perhaps the neighborhood watch guy shouldn't have been following him but if he looked suspicious it's easy to see why he was.

Please elaborate. Are you referring to the hooded sweatshirt? That's a common fashion item these days. But the biggest error here was getting directly involved. Watch? Sure. Follow at a distance even? Maybe.

Also easy to see how the guy being followed could have thought the neighborhood watch guy was a criminal about to mug him. Which makes it easy to see how he could have attacked the guy following him without giving him a chance to explain. And, it's easy to see how once he was attacked the neighborhood watch guy could have pulled his gun and fired.

Good point. But it kind of goes to why a neighborhood watch member is supposed to do just that; watch. You're right, it could have just been a severe escalation of misunderstanding.

I don't know that that's how it came down but from what I've read it very well could be. Looks to me like a sad tragedy being made into something it's not by people with an agenda. I'm anxious to see how the investigation plays out. I suspect that both the shooter and the dead guy are going to wind up being victims of politics.

Well we don't really know yet that there's NOT more to it than that. We probably will never know with any certainty. I listened today to the 911 recording. As for the "slur" it sounds like it could be, but it might also be something else entirely. It will never make it into court and were I a juror I would have to disregard it.

I do think we should all take from this how easy it would to assume someone is a criminal who isn't. And, how easy it would be for the person you're watching to assume you are a criminal because you are watching him.

Very true.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Guess I'm otta the loop. I don't live in or frequent cities. This is the first I've even heard of a "hooded sweatshirt" being supposed to mean anything.

[Jeff K]

Reports from the neighbors are supporting the shooters story. Funny how that isn't making the national news.

Are they really? Well why don't you provide us with some of those. Because I've not heard a single one. But they must be out there since you have heard them.

But even if the kid told Mr. Zimmerman to eff-off and resisted his efforts to detain him he was well within his rights to do so. Not a single one of us under any obligation to to the "authority" (which is nonexistent) of a neighborhood watch. That's the bottom line.

Funny how you require me to provide evidence as you plug along making up fictitious scenarios in your head.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-15/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315_1_robert-zimmerman-letter-unarmed-black-teenager

"Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.

That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.

The boy said he is not sure who called for help. After a moment, his dog escaped, and he turned to catch it and a few seconds later heard a gunshot, he said.

"When I heard the shot, the screaming stopped," he said.

He then rushed inside and told his sister to call police."


My fictitious scenario, since that seems to get more air time than facts, has Zimmerman asking the kid what he was up to, then the kid feeling that he was in trouble either "stranger danger" or something else, went on the attack.
Can't say I would blame him. He was aware that he was being followed. They were both in different frames of mind. Any other time the kid most likely would have fended off his "attacker" but this time it didn't work. They both "stood their ground" Kid could have run, shooter could have waited for police. Coulda shoulda doesn't do any good for either of them.

[Jeff K]

I think the worst thing about it is the way it's being played as a racial shooting. My understanding is that the shooter was Hispanic and from a multiracial family. Why do we always have to play the race card? Why are they playing on racial fears to turn this into something it probably wasn't.

So far it really sounds like just errors committed all the way around. Perhaps the neighborhood watch guy shouldn't have been following him but if he looked suspicious it's easy to see why he was.

Also easy to see how the guy being followed could have thought the neighborhood watch guy was a criminal about to mug him. Which makes it easy to see how he could have attacked the guy following him without giving him a chance to explain. And, it's easy to see how once he was attacked the neighborhood watch guy could have pulled his gun and fired.

I don't know that that's how it came down but from what I've read it very well could be. Looks to me like a sad tragedy being made into something it's not by people with an agenda. I'm anxious to see how the investigation plays out. I suspect that both the shooter and the dead guy are going to wind up being victims of politics.

I do think we should all take from this how easy it would to assume someone is a criminal who isn't. And, how easy it would be for the person you're watching to assume you are a criminal because you are watching him.

Exactly.
After my house was robbed I always keep an eye out around here. I see a truck pull up to our gate I go see why he is there. No reason to be there. I'm the neighborhood watch guy on my dead end road. 
There had been many robberies in the area lately, that is why Zimmerman complained to the 911 operator "they always get away" he was on the lookout for crooks, he was sure he had found one.

As far as the "neighbor hood watch" I believe that was a group of 1 just him. It wasn't an organized neighborhood watch program.

[bassman]

http://amren.com/news/2012/03/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin/

[Jeff K]

http://amren.com/news/2012/03/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin/

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman."

[The Anvil]

http://amren.com/news/2012/03/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin/

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman."

And how exactly does that change anything?

[Jeff K]

http://amren.com/news/2012/03/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin/

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman."

And how exactly does that change anything?

If I was laying on the ground with someone beating in my face, and I had a gun, I would most certainly use my weapon to end the attack, that IS why I was carrying it.

Funny how you can justify a beating for someone asking him a question. But can't justify self defense while being beaten. The guy says "hey what are you doing here?" Correct response, "walking home to my uncle's house." alternate response would be to attack him, and start punching him.

So, to use your logic. If someone was trying to get a kid's attention to get directions, and the kid thought the guy was a threat, he has every right to beat the living crap out of him.

As I have said. I believe this was a tragic incident. I don't think either party wanted this outcome.

But to your logic a verbal confrontation is justification for a severe beating, and the one being beaten should just lay there and take it?

Yes, I am aware that you can never be wrong, and always will have the final words of wisdom.

And I am aware that most people see right through you.

[The Anvil]

Yes, I am aware that you can never be wrong, and always will have the final words of wisdom.

Well at least we're making progress.  

But Zimmerman had no business questioning Mr. Martin to begin with. No account I've seen thusfar (except maybe for Mr. Zimmerman's) has indicated that Mr. Zimmerman simply asked Mr. Martin a question and was rewarded with a beatdown. Do you believe that this is what happened?

Fact; Mr. Zimmerman initiated a confrontation that escalated into a killing. He went into said confrontation armed and clearly prepared to kill (because afterall, he did just that). It was is place and business to do NONE of these things.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I REALLY DONT CARE, IM SO DAMN TIRED OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS, LISTENING TO THE NEWS OF THE SAME CRAP DAY IN DAY OUT. HAD TO DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY WHEN ON THE FORCE AND IM TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I can relate to the frustration. I pretty much feel the same way about reality TV and the Kardashians. But something like this is kind of important.

Why?
Thousands of people killed, and for some reason THIS is the center of attention for the entire country?
Political BS. This is nothing more than Political and racial grandstanding. This happened a MONTH AGO. But now it's big news. Why? Gun control. The Liberal media and this administration want gun control. There are thousands and thousands of victims families asking themselves "why is he so much more important than my Son\Daughter\Wife...?"
This should be handled by law enforcement not by the court of Al Sharpton or Judge Obama.
I can't believe the number of people that believe that the shooter was hoping for a reason to shoot someone. Yeah, I remember the day My CCW permit came in the mail, the first thing that came to my mind was "now i get to kill somebody".  
There isn't even a remote possibility that this shooter could get a "fair" trial at this point. They are going to have to convict him just to squelch the media and the court of public opinion.
I wonder why it is that the media decides who gets a "fair" trial. Casey Anthony is a prime example, this is on it's way to dwarfing that debacle. Both of the people in this situation are doomed. One died, the other might as well be dead. Louis Farrakhan is already calling for vigilante justice.
Lots of people with opinions, most have the the shooter convicted without any "due process" at all.

The problem was that law enforcement wasn't handling it.  And after being frustrated for so long, the parents went to the media and their state reps for help.  When the details became public, it started a groundswell of public, media, and political outrage.  The state reps and the city mayor went to the feds for help because they couldn't get any action locally. Obama didn't start this.  The local representative and mayor went to the Fed Justice department...not the other way around.

Also, I would state that Zimmerman may have totally been in the right.  But without it entering the judicial system, that cannot even be determined.  The outrage isn't over gun control.  The outrage is over the lack of justice and apparent lack of action by the police department because they are claiming the "stand your ground" law...when just from the 911 tapes, you can see that doesn't apply...or should at least raise enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and enter the court system.

Law enforcement did handle it. They deemed it self defense and decided that no charges should be filed. It's only making national news and being rethought because one of the guys involved was black. If they were both of the same race it wouldn't even be on the radar.

This case is all about racism. The racism of the media and the racism of the left. Truthfully, the only racism I still see in this country belongs to the left. They own it. 43% of white voters voted for Obama, 98% of black voters voted for Obama. I think those stats speak for themselves.

[The Anvil]

It's only making national news and being rethought because one of the guys involved was black. If they were both of the same race it wouldn't even be on the radar.

You don't know that for a fact. If someone had killed my son in the same manner then I'd MAKE it national news regardless of the person's color.

But actually, I don't have an issue with playing the race card it here since it's not out of the realm of possibility that it was a factor.

[Jeff K]

Yes, I am aware that you can never be wrong, and always will have the final words of wisdom.

Well at least we're making progress.  

But Zimmerman had no business questioning Mr. Martin to begin with. No account I've seen thusfar (except maybe for Mr. Zimmerman's) has indicated that Mr. Zimmerman simply asked Mr. Martin a question and was rewarded with a beatdown. Do you believe that this is what happened?

Fact; Mr. Zimmerman initiated a confrontation that escalated into a killing. He went into said confrontation armed and clearly prepared to kill (because afterall, he did just that). It was is place and business to do NONE of these things.

As I have said...
"My fictitious scenario, since that seems to get more air time than facts, has Zimmerman asking the kid what he was up to, then the kid feeling that he was in trouble either "stranger danger" or something else, went on the attack.
Can't say I would blame him. He was aware that he was being followed. They were both in different frames of mind. Any other time the kid most likely would have fended off his "attacker" but this time it didn't work. They both "stood their ground" Kid could have run, shooter could have waited for police. Coulda shoulda doesn't do any good for either of them."

I doubt that Zimmerman was brandishing, because if he was the kid would not have attacked.
I do believe the kid believed he was being followed, and was worried about being attacked, so he decided to go on the offense and thwart his perceived attacker.
Zimmerman believed that he was going to prevent another crime, as he has in the past, and confronted a stranger.
As far as I am concerned neither one made a good choice that night.

The area was having problems with rising crime.

"In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012."

"police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death."

The was watching his neighborhood go to hell.

"Problems in the 6-year-old community started during the recession, when foreclosures forced owners to rent out to “low-lifes and gangsters,” said Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood block captain.

“Just two weeks before this shooting, George called me at my girlfriend’s house to say he saw some black guy doing surveillance at my house, because I had a left a window open,” Taaffe said. “He thwarted a potential burglary of my house.”

Taaffe sounded chagrined when he noted that the complex is now majority-minority. Census figures show Retreat at Twin Lakes is 49 percent white, non-Hispanic, 23 percent Hispanic, 20 percent African-American and 5 percent Asian."



Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249_p2/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

[donaldcc]

Law enforcement did handle it. They deemed it self defense and decided that no charges should be filed. It's only making national news and being rethought because one of the guys involved was black. If they were both of the same race it wouldn't even be on the radar.

  Frye always like to see your posts but i can't agree with this.  i think more will come out.  local law enforcement has vote of no confidnece from the city and the chief resigns?? i think it is a racist comment to think that it is only being investigated further because one participant was black.

  i'm not sure yet what i think.  but, there is a cop wannabe who makes countless 911 calls in his self appointed protector status, carries his gun around gated community, follows a 17 yo black guy and kills him after being told to back off by the REAL police. 

  something does not smell right and i will wait for my final opinion.

[Jeff K]

Law enforcement did handle it. They deemed it self defense and decided that no charges should be filed. It's only making national news and being rethought because one of the guys involved was black. If they were both of the same race it wouldn't even be on the radar.

  Frye always like to see your posts but i can't agree with this.  i think more will come out.  local law enforcement has vote of no confidnece from the city and the chief resigns?? i think it is a racist comment to think that it is only being investigated further because one participant was black.

  i'm not sure yet what i think.  but, there is a cop wannabe who makes countless 911 calls in his self appointed protector status, carries his gun around gated community, follows a 17 yo black guy and kills him after being told to back off by the REAL police. 

  something does not smell right and i will wait for my final opinion.

The Police chief DID NOT resign.
 "Lee temporarily stepped down as chief amid national outrage over the investigation."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57403922/arrest-for-death-threat-to-sanford-police-chief/

And there has been an arrest in the death threat that was made to the Chief and his family.
Not that that has made national news. I guess I should distance myself from this so I can get the "proper facts"?




 

[donaldcc]

The Police chief DID NOT resign.
 "Lee temporarily stepped down as chief amid national outrage over the investigation."

   My mistake, admonishment accepted!  "stepped down as chief" though i think it was after vote of no confidence by city rather than death threat.

[The Anvil]

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249_p2/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

Now that is interesting. Sounds like there was a lot of paranoia going around and I sympathize with Mr. Zimmerman in that respect. I even understand his choice to carry a gun instead of pepper spray or something less-lethal. Because let's face it; you never know. I have a CCW permit and exercise it regularly.

But he still stepped well past the threshold of his "authority". His decision to do so led to someone's death. When your poor decision making results in a death then you should be held responsible, should you not? Since we're now making this a left vs. right issue, where is the right's fondness for accountability now? Where is the right's fondness for personal freedoms like walking the streets of the neighborhood you live in without being harassed by the "gestapo"?

When you make the choice to carry a gun you can not let it embolden you. If anything it should make you more humble and careful because you have to know that it can go from a bad day to a bad life in a few lbs of pull. The one thing you NEVER want to be seen as is the aggressor. At minimum Mr. Zimmerman was the initiator of confrontation (if not strictly an "aggressor") and he was armed. At minimum that demands a thorough investigation regardless of the color of either party's skin.

[Jeff K]

The Police chief DID NOT resign.
 "Lee temporarily stepped down as chief amid national outrage over the investigation."

   My mistake, admonishment accepted!  "stepped down as chief" though i think it was after vote of no confidence by city rather than death threat.

I believe his comment was that he wanted to give room to investigate without him being a hindrance to the investigation. Sorry I don't have a link for that though.

[Bob E.]

Rhetorical question....If someone picks a fight, but ends up getting his ass beat, is it still considered self defense if the instigator shoots his opponent to end the fight?

[BigAl]

I live in Sanford, and I am a retired police officer, having said that tentions are high and the media is pushing for a fight...all the pics of the young man are of a 12-14 year old, not that of a strapping 17 year old young man.  Also there are no convient stores anywhere in the area for well  over a mile or two.  Mr. Z had, had his home broken into and several others in the area by young men dressed this way, Mr,Z recieved injuries from a altercation after heading back to his vehicle and being attacked by the 17 year old.many,many stories are being told, the Police Dept nor the SAO, has released any information so most is made up unless one is forturnate to know law enforcement personally.  The sad part is a young man has lost his life and another must live with a decision he made to take a life.  The Grand Jury will convien on April 10 and decide if a law has been violated and if there will be prosecution.   Having said that EVERYTHING else is just someones opioion.  This is AMERICA and land of laws that we live by, good or bad...

Heading back to his car.


Well the intent of a CCW is to stop action that could concievably cause you to lose your life.

He stopped said action, the kid up and died, tragic at best. Still legal. Should have let the cops do the talking,

He would not be in hiding,aa nd the youngster would be alive.

[Jeff K]

Rhetorical question....If someone picks a fight, but ends up getting his ass beat, is it still considered self defense if the instigator shoots his opponent to end the fight?

It is your opinion that he was "picking a fight".

Rhetorical question.... if someone asks you "what are your doing here" does that justify a beat down?

[..]

WTF

Zimmerman is a WHITE Hispanic. A WHITE Hispanic?

Which half wit came up with that racial designation. Don't they understand that following that logic the President is a half white American-African.

Do the agent provocateurs really stoop that low to rile us up?

Do we really allow others to get us riled up before a court case?

This isn't reality TV this is real life.

Seems like many don't have one of their own.

[Bob E.]

Rhetorical question....If someone picks a fight, but ends up getting his ass beat, is it still considered self defense if the instigator shoots his opponent to end the fight?

It is your opinion that he was "picking a fight".

Rhetorical question.... if someone asks you "what are your doing here" does that justify a beat down?

It is my opinion that he instigated the altercation by pursuing Martin even after being told not to, then confronting him leading to some sort of scuffle that ended with the shooting. So I asked the question. 

For your second question, I'd say in most cases, no it doesn't, but it might justify a "none of your f'ing business" type of response that could escalate to a fight with someone getting beat down.

[texaninsouthfl]

WTF

Zimmerman is a WHITE Hispanic. A WHITE Hispanic?

Which half wit came up with that racial designation. Don't they understand that following that logic the President is a half white American-African.

Do the agent provocateurs really stoop that low to rile us up?

Do we really allow others to get us riled up before a court case?

This isn't reality TV this is real life.

Seems like many don't have one of their own.

Obama IS a half white African... 

[x]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/24/george-zimmerman-refers-to-trayvon-martin-as-a-fing-coon-during-911-call-audio/