ok the thing about the drones.....

[musclehead]

is it slimy? yeah it reeks badly! however on private property I don't think you can expect privacy from above, heard of google earth? there are at this very moment satelites that can look over your shoulder and see the print on your newspaper (if your outside) so shoot one down if you want to, I'd like to hear what happens to you. (nothing good I'll wager)

do I think it's an invasion of privacy, yeah. do I think you can be video taped/photographed/recorded outside in public? yeah. out on the street you have no expectation of privacy.

here's a good question, if Bush wanted to do this would the left be screaming bloody murder about infringement of the people's rights?  you tell me?

[BigAl]

Go to a bank,

Got to a 7-11,

Go to work,

Go in the court house,

Schools,

Where I work,

Just about any location there are cameras taking a movie or picture of you.

The drones thing. It will be a while due the fact we are all broke.

You need money for this, and it aint there.

[musclehead]

Go to a bank,

Got to a 7-11,

Go to work,

Go in the court house,

Schools,

Where I work,

Just about any location there are cameras taking a movie or picture of you.

The drones thing. It will be a while due the fact we are all broke.

You need money for this, and it aint there.

they have the printing presses, they can't run out of money 

[lakehunter]

So .... why worry about drones ???

If you carry one of the new cell phones powered up then you already have their eyes and ears along for the ride .

[hubcapsc]

Go to a bank,

Got to a 7-11,

Go to work,

Go in the court house,

Schools,

Where I work,

Just about any location there are cameras taking a movie or picture of you.

The drones thing. It will be a while due the fact we are all broke.

You need money for this, and it aint there.

There's great gobs of data, what Big Al said, and more, available to be scrutinized by people
who have access to it.

As far as some human scrutinizing you or me out of that big pile of data, though... it ain't
bloody likely unless somehow attention gets drawn to you...

The biggest pile of data on you might be all that stuff you typed into spacebook 

-Mike

[Robert]

This is only one of Googles many data centers only a small number and power that the government has but the real question is why?

Google container data center tour	powered by Aeva

[The Anvil]

is it slimy? yeah it reeks badly! however on private property I don't think you can expect privacy from above, heard of google earth? there are at this very moment satelites that can look over your shoulder and see the print on your newspaper (if your outside) so shoot one down if you want to, I'd like to hear what happens to you. (nothing good I'll wager)

do I think it's an invasion of privacy, yeah. do I think you can be video taped/photographed/recorded outside in public? yeah. out on the street you have no expectation of privacy.

here's a good question, if Bush wanted to do this would the left be screaming bloody murder about infringement of the people's rights?  you tell me?

If Bush were doing it would the right be screaming about it like stuck-pigs?

Look, law enforcement uses aircraft to conduct domestic surveilance. All the time. They even use them to observe traffic and relay information about speeding cars. They've used them for domestic drug interdiction... There's NOTHING new happening here but it's an election year so...

[fudgie]

I kinda got better things to do then worry about who is watching me from above. I'm not doing anything worth watching, well most of the time. 

[Master Blaster]

As far as some human scrutinizing you or me out of that big pile of data, though... it ain't
bloody likely unless somehow attention gets drawn to you...

The next time you have the family out to the farm, kids, grandkids, etc. for a little recreational day of shooting, informal weapons traning, honing your accuracy skills.   If you get droned will some faceless beaurocrat determine that you are a terrorist group in traning??   Will you be added to some watch list??  Just because you are on film when you go to the 7/11 for a big gulp doesnt mean the government has a right to spy on your activities.   There has to be limits or our rights will completely go away.  Each step is further down that road.

[hubcapsc]

As far as some human scrutinizing you or me out of that big pile of data, though... it ain't
bloody likely unless somehow attention gets drawn to you...

The next time you have the family out to the farm, kids, grandkids, etc. for a little recreational day of shooting, informal weapons traning, honing your accuracy skills.   If you get droned will some faceless beaurocrat determine that you are a terrorist group in traning??   Will you be added to some watch list??  Just because you are on film when you go to the 7/11 for a big gulp doesnt mean the government has a right to spy on your activities.   There has to be limits or our rights will completely go away.  Each step is further down that road.

If they "drone" everyone one in South Carolina who is in the backyard shooting, they'll have to
hire, like, everyone in North Carolina, to scrutinize the data, else its just going to be sitting
on a tape somewhere...

I don't want to be spied upon, but I think the amount of data that is being collected kind
of protects us from individual scrutiny... the kind of stuff they have that's kind of like
"the machine" on "Person of Interest" costs way too much to point it at me... all your emails
and stuff you've said on the Internet is squirreled away on Wahoo  or Google or someone's
backup robots, but nobody's looking at it... I'm probably not doing anything that would
make me bubble up to the top of the list of statistically interesting people that get flagged for
human scrutiny, but if I do bubble up to the top of that list the people assigned to
study me are going to get bored into catatonia... There's probably robots that study every
email you send out to see if it might be spam, but you shouldn't be paranoid about it, no
humans (except the ones you intend) are looking at your email...

-Mike

[alph]

This is only one of Googles many data centers only a small number and power that the government has but the real question is why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRwPSFpLX8I#ws]Google container data center tour

Robert, it's really a video of how a Google Data switching station is maintained.  all that are in those "containers" are switches.  didn't really hear anything about it being a "data storage" facility.  

as for the "drones" i look at it like this, if i'm not doing anything illegal, then i shouldn't feel like a criminal, right? just as stated in previous posts, if you're afraid of "big brother" taking your picture, you better hide inside and wear a bag (burka) over your face all the time!!  keep your curtains closed too!!  

you've got to remember, the next time you see a person swerving from lane to lane on the highway while they're trying to text their friend, wouldn't you want a "Drone" watching out for you while you're on your cycle?  i'd reather have that person ticketed, then be killed by 'em!!

(it's not all gloom and doom.....)

[Jeff K]

Speaking of drones...
Why is waterboarding terrorists a horrible thing...
But droning them along with anyone that might be with them at the time, children included, is acceptable?

The left is an odd place.

[MarkT]

I kinda got better things to do then worry about who is watching me from above. I'm not doing anything worth watching, well most of the time.  

Wow.  This is the same argument the cops use - "If you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't mind if I search your car - right?"

(Not singling you out fudgie - your comment is an example of the same argument from several after you, here.)

What's wrong with this picture?

Sorry Stalin.  No you may not search me or mine, or surveill me either, randomly looking for probable cause, unless you already have probable cause, observed legally without unreasonable search or seizure.   It's called The Fourth Amendment.

This second argument, not to worry, because they are overwhelmed and buried by too much data - that can be remedied - and they are working on it.  They already have computers screening the data looking for keywords and the like.  Looking for faces in a database.  Looking for image types in photo-screening software.  Doing voice-translation from audio to text and looking for keywords.  All to be flagged for further examination by humans.  All driven by the new loss of our rights called "Homeland Security".  

Ben Franklin said it first, maybe best: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[Master Blaster]

A small point that is overlooked in these discussions about big government is it is another department that has to justify their exestence, with a department head that soon becomes giddy with power, and does everything he or she can to expand their power base.   If you believe you can trust and rely on your government to do whats best for you, pity the fool.

[T.P.]

 I'm not doing anything worth watching, well most of the time.  

HEY BRIAN,  Didn't you get Jimmed last weekend.

[hubcapsc]

They already have computers screening the data looking for keywords and the like.  Looking for faces in a database.  Looking for image types in photo-screening software.  Doing voice-translation from audio to text and looking for keywords.  All to be flagged for further examination by humans.


"They" (not a unified they really, but still) are absolutely doing that. And there's cameras everywhere
too. The ones "they" look at to see where that missing little boy was, right before he fell off
the radar.

Sorry Stalin.  No you may not search me or mine, or surveill me either, randomly looking for probably cause, unless you already have probable cause, observed legally without unreasonable search or seizure.   It's called The Fourth Amendment.


As I think we just agreed, they can and are "surveilling" you and me. And computers are statistically
analyzing all that data. If computers weren't statistically analyzing all your email, we wouldn't have
email, it would all be spam. The Fourth Amendment protects us from "Stalin" as long as
we continue to demand that we live under the rule of law. The Constitution is an awesome set
of laws if we can keep it from getting reinterpreted into oblivion.

Ben Franklin said it first, maybe best: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I think he was right. But you have to properly identify the cases where liberty is given up,
and not rail against computer programs poking around in our email (or whatever)...

-Mike

[fudgie]

I'm not doing anything worth watching, well most of the time.  

HEY BRIAN,  Didn't you get Jimmed last weekend.

lol a few times! 

[fudgie]

Wow.  This is the same argument the cops use - "If you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't mind if I search your car - right?"

(Not singling you out fudgie - your comment is an example of the same argument from several after you, here.)

I'm good with the cop arguments. I oc and is ready to be harrassed by cops. 

[musclehead]

is it slimy? yeah it reeks badly! however on private property I don't think you can expect privacy from above, heard of google earth? there are at this very moment satelites that can look over your shoulder and see the print on your newspaper (if your outside) so shoot one down if you want to, I'd like to hear what happens to you. (nothing good I'll wager)

do I think it's an invasion of privacy, yeah. do I think you can be video taped/photographed/recorded outside in public? yeah. out on the street you have no expectation of privacy.

here's a good question, if Bush wanted to do this would the left be screaming bloody murder about infringement of the people's rights?  you tell me?

If Bush were doing it would the right be screaming about it like stuck-pigs?

Look, law enforcement uses aircraft to conduct domestic surveilance. All the time. They even use them to observe traffic and relay information about speeding cars. They've used them for domestic drug interdiction... There's NOTHING new happening here but it's an election year so...

yeah, bush did lots-o-stuff I didn't like/agree with. I made the mistake of supporting the patriot act at first, I realized the error of my ways and I see the light.

[musclehead]

I kinda got better things to do then worry about who is watching me from above. I'm not doing anything worth watching, well most of the time. 

sunbathing? 

[musclehead]

Speaking of drones...
Why is waterboarding terrorists a horrible thing...
But droning them along with anyone that might be with them at the time, children included, is acceptable?

The left is an odd place.

don't be confusing the issue with facts or the name calling begins.

waterboarding, not torture. listening to an Obama speach should be santcioned by the Geneva accords

[musclehead]

I kinda got better things to do then worry about who is watching me from above. I'm not doing anything worth watching, well most of the time.  

Wow.  This is the same argument the cops use - "If you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't mind if I search your car - right?"

(Not singling you out fudgie - your comment is an example of the same argument from several after you, here.)

What's wrong with this picture?

Sorry Stalin.  No you may not search me or mine, or surveill me either, randomly looking for probable cause, unless you already have probable cause, observed legally without unreasonable search or seizure.   It's called The Fourth Amendment.

This second argument, not to worry, because they are overwhelmed and buried by too much data - that can be remedied - and they are working on it.  They already have computers screening the data looking for keywords and the like.  Looking for faces in a database.  Looking for image types in photo-screening software.  Doing voice-translation from audio to text and looking for keywords.  All to be flagged for further examination by humans.  All driven by the new loss of our rights called "Homeland Security".  

Ben Franklin said it first, maybe best: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

the answer is always NO! when asked for permission to search your vehicle.

I've never had to say no, I don't sweat when pulled over. stay relaxed and calm and you won't be searched either

like i said I think it's slimy!

[BigAl]

Speaking of drones...
Why is waterboarding terrorists a horrible thing...
But droning them along with anyone that might be with them at the time, children included, is acceptable?

The left is an odd place.

Left is an odd place. You got that right, they don't try toeven take them alive, does not fit thier political model.

It is easier and cheaper to kill them than squeeze them till they rat out the rest.

No trial and so they don't have a chance to look bad.

Yes the left side is a very odd place.

[The Anvil]

Speaking of drones...
Why is waterboarding terrorists a horrible thing...
But droning them along with anyone that might be with them at the time, children included, is acceptable?

The left is an odd place.

Left is an odd place. You got that right, they don't try toeven take them alive, does not fit thier political model.

It is easier and cheaper to kill them than squeeze them till they rat out the rest.

No trial and so they don't have a chance to look bad.

Yes the left side is a very odd place.

Yeah okay, so why does the right have no problem with waterboarding terrorists but droning them is bad when it's a Democrat doing it?

Seriously, you guys should hear yourselves talk. Laughter is the best medicine.

The right is a very odd place.

[musclehead]

Speaking of drones...
Why is waterboarding terrorists a horrible thing...
But droning them along with anyone that might be with them at the time, children included, is acceptable?

The left is an odd place.

Left is an odd place. You got that right, they don't try toeven take them alive, does not fit thier political model.

It is easier and cheaper to kill them than squeeze them till they rat out the rest.

No trial and so they don't have a chance to look bad.

Yes the left side is a very odd place.

Yeah okay, so why does the right have no problem with waterboarding terrorists but droning them is bad when it's a Democrat doing it?

Seriously, you guys should hear yourselves talk. Laughter is the best medicine.

The right is a very odd place.

well Obama could try snatching a few for some intel but he'd rather kill them. then he has to dance on the head of a pin to try and not tick off his base because he's the head hitman.

I've got no problem sending terrorists off to met their maker, I'd just like to get a heads up first.

[Hoser]

I kinda got better things to do then worry about who is watching me from above. I'm not doing anything worth watching, well most of the time.  

Wow.  This is the same argument the cops use - "If you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't mind if I search your car - right?"

(Not singling you out fudgie - your comment is an example of the same argument from several after you, here.)

What's wrong with this picture?

Sorry Stalin.  No you may not search me or mine, or surveill me either, randomly looking for probable cause, unless you already have probable cause, observed legally without unreasonable search or seizure.   It's called The Fourth Amendment.

This second argument, not to worry, because they are overwhelmed and buried by too much data - that can be remedied - and they are working on it.  They already have computers screening the data looking for keywords and the like.  Looking for faces in a database.  Looking for image types in photo-screening software.  Doing voice-translation from audio to text and looking for keywords.  All to be flagged for further examination by humans.  All driven by the new loss of our rights called "Homeland Security".  

Ben Franklin said it first, maybe best: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

the answer is always NO! when asked for permission to search your vehicle.

I've never had to say no, I don't sweat when pulled over. stay relaxed and calm and you won't be searched either

like i said I think it's slimy!

If you believe saying they may search your vehicle, thinking that they won't if you consent, you are dead wrong.  It then becomes a fishing expedition.  If they already had a reason, they wouldn't ask.  Learned that in cop school.  I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now.  The 4th admendment also covers personal searches.  Hoser  

[The Anvil]

well Obama could try snatching a few for some intel but he'd rather kill them.

So, do you know that this hasn't happened? Do you really think that we know everything there is to know about how we even find people with drones?

Because I can tell you that we do not.

[musclehead]

well Obama could try snatching a few for some intel but he'd rather kill them.

So, do you know that this hasn't happened? Do you really think that we know everything there is to know about how we even find people with drones?

Because I can tell you that we do not.

*gasp* so besides murdering foriegn nationals on foreign soil he potentially has stooped to the lowest of lows where Bush/Cheney went and kidnapped them? did he send them to Gitmo?
how do I know it hasn't happened? because he ended rendition and shut down the black sites, he said so he did!

[The Anvil]

how do I know it hasn't happened? because he ended rendition and shut down the black sites, he said so he did!

There you go playing the race card again... 

[musclehead]

how do I know it hasn't happened? because he ended rendition and shut down the black sites, he said so he did!

There you go playing the race card again... 

oops! should read "black op sites"   you caught me letting my racist side out