FINALLY, a well dressed Wal Mart shopper!!

[The Anvil]

Oh and for the record, she's no spring chicken, but she's got a nice rack so I'd hit it.

[texaninsouthfl]

Sorry guys but Mark is right. Open Carry makes you the first target. I mean I'm not against it from a legal standpoint but I don't do it myself.

Errmm.... no he's NOT right. Perhaps you can convince me otherwise by citing a few instances in which it actually happened. That is, a bad buy arrives in an area intent on mayhem and death and looks around, finds the open carry person and shoots him or her first... Hell, just find me one documented case.

Individuals who open carry are far more likely to serve as a deterrent than as a target.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

You guys are killing me here with the DRT acronym. I'm guessing it's not "Daughters of the Republic of Texas". 

Maybe "Dead Right There"?

[The Anvil]

Sorry guys but Mark is right. Open Carry makes you the first target. I mean I'm not against it from a legal standpoint but I don't do it myself.

Errmm.... no he's NOT right. Perhaps you can convince me otherwise by citing a few instances in which it actually happened. That is, a bad buy arrives in an area intent on mayhem and death and looks around, finds the open carry person and shoots him or her first... Hell, just find me one documented case.

Individuals who open carry are far more likely to serve as a deterrent than as a target.

Well it would be kinda hard to do since they don't really keep stats on that kind of thing. And for that matter even if they did, the motives driving those who do mayhem while in a mentally impaired state usually wind up in clumps on the ground.

But use your brain for a second here; if YOU entered a situation in which you planned on causing as much death and destruction as possible or looking to exact vengeance (consequences be cursed) and you spied someone with a gun on their hip what would YOU do?

You know what you'd do. You'd kill the armed individual first. In this situation you have given away any advantage you may have had in the element of the x-factor. So yes, Mark is right. You now have a target on your back, in more ways than one I might add.

Trust me, when you are open carrying the person most impressed with you IS you.
It's just not necessary.

[fudgie]

Bad guy enters the bank. Tells everyone this is a hold up. Citizen 'struggles' under his layers to retrieve his weapon. BG see's this and shoots him.

See this goes both ways.

Someone who has intent to kill someone dont care. He wants to kill someone. Now someone who is going to rob someone will look for the weak not the stong, Ask yourself who would you rob. A armed person or a unarmed person?

Maybe cause of my job-fire or EMS- or cause I open carry but I survey the scene everywhere I am. I know where my exits are and those who are around me.

[Raverez]

I guess one picture is worth a thousand words. Maybe two thousand....

[Davemn]

She should just wear a T shirt that says....."When all hell breaks loose.....Shoot Me First"

[The Anvil]

Bad guy enters the bank. Tells everyone this is a hold up. Citizen 'struggles' under his layers to retrieve his weapon. BG see's this and shoots him.

See this goes both ways.

Someone who has intent to kill someone dont care. He wants to kill someone. Now someone who is going to rob someone will look for the weak not the stong, Ask yourself who would you rob. A armed person or a unarmed person?

Maybe cause of my job-fire or EMS- or cause I open carry but I survey the scene everywhere I am. I know where my exits are and those who are around me.

Perhaps in rare instances it could be a benefit but it's not the standard. Saying this "goes both ways" is like saying Elton John "goes both ways". It may have happened but not very often.

[fudgie]

Perhaps in rare instances it could be a benefit but it's not the standard. Saying this "goes both ways" is like saying Elton John "goes both ways". It may have happened but not very often.

You would be surprised what the standard is for oc'ers.

Now I do like chics that go...... 

[bigguy]

While I like the concept of open carry, my concern is that a lot of "in-your-face" open carry will cause a lot more no carry signs to go up. I have no empirical data of course, but is seems reasonable to assume that there are some number of establishments that are happy to allow CC by simply ignoring the issue. Right, wrong, Constitution, it don't matter. If Mr. Business owner thinks he's losing money because some of his customers are uncomfortable with bubba toting his big shiny 44 Mag. (yes I know that like the Valk, it's not the biggest gun by today's standards) the sign will go up. Bubba proved his point, but at what actual cost to the cause.
And there are those folks who are in it for the fight, not the results. Those who are happy making others uncomfortable. That's one of the reasons I decided to ge ahead and get my CHL now. (Class scheduled for 6-13) I'm afraid it will get harder in the future, or no longer an option. And it's not the boggy men liberals I'm afraid of. It's those folks who will push any issue until it breaks because as I said earlier, the like the fight more than the results.


Also:
Put me in the "I think she's attractive" category.
And MarkT Who is the hot babe on the bike in your sig. If it's the missus, then congrats. She is smoking.

[fudgie]

While I like the concept of open carry, my concern is that a lot of "in-your-face" open carry will cause a lot more no carry signs to go up. I have no empirical data of course, but is seems reasonable to assume that there are some number of establishments that are happy to allow CC by simply ignoring the issue. Right, wrong, Constitution, it don't matter. If Mr. Business owner thinks he's losing money because some of his customers are uncomfortable with bubba toting his big shiny 44 Mag. (yes I know that like the Valk, it's not the biggest gun by today's standards) the sign will go up. Bubba proved his point, but at what actual cost to the cause.
And there are those folks who are in it for the fight, not the results. Those who are happy making others uncomfortable. That's one of the reasons I decided to ge ahead and get my CHL now. (Class scheduled for 6-13) I'm afraid it will get harder in the future, or no longer an option. And it's not the boggy men liberals I'm afraid of. It's those folks who will push any issue until it breaks because as I said earlier, the like the fight more than the results.


Also:
Put me in the "I think she's attractive" category.
And MarkT Who is the hot babe on the bike in your sig. If it's the missus, then congrats. She is smoking.

There are already alot of 'no guns' signs up. Its not the resualt of OC, just guns in general. Starbucks is a great pro oc place. The public does not know about oc like they do cc.

[texaninsouthfl]

Sorry guys but Mark is right. Open Carry makes you the first target. I mean I'm not against it from a legal standpoint but I don't do it myself.

Errmm.... no he's NOT right. Perhaps you can convince me otherwise by citing a few instances in which it actually happened. That is, a bad buy arrives in an area intent on mayhem and death and looks around, finds the open carry person and shoots him or her first... Hell, just find me one documented case.

Individuals who open carry are far more likely to serve as a deterrent than as a target.

Well it would be kinda hard to do since they don't really keep stats on that kind of thing. And for that matter even if they did, the motives driving those who do mayhem while in a mentally impaired state usually wind up in clumps on the ground.

But use your brain for a second here; if YOU entered a situation in which you planned on causing as much death and destruction as possible or looking to exact vengeance (consequences be cursed) and you spied someone with a gun on their hip what would YOU do?

You know what you'd do. You'd kill the armed individual first. In this situation you have given away any advantage you may have had in the element of the x-factor. So yes, Mark is right. You now have a target on your back, in more ways than one I might add.

Trust me, when you are open carrying the person most impressed with you IS you.
It's just not necessary.

You insist on a line of reasoning that is simply not backed up by reality. As long as we're hypothesizing, tell me, why to you think that crazies most often choose places for mass murder that are typically "gun free" zones like schools, churches, malls and so forth? I'd submit to you that it's precisely because they expect little or no resistance. When was the last time a mass shooting took place at a gun show? For that matter, have you ever heard of a mugging in the parking lot of a gun show? Of course not...  Murderers and some criminals may be crazy, but most of the the time they do have a sense of self preservation... even if it's only up to the point that they want to cause as much death and destruction as possible before being stopped.

[MarkT]

And MarkT Who is the hot babe on the bike in your sig. If it's the missus, then congrats. She is smoking.

Well, thanks for the sentiment.  Without saying who she is, or that this applies to her, but...

No matter how hot that babe you're admiring is, just remember that, somewhere, there's a guy she has pissed off, and hates her guts.  And you too, could be that guy.

jus sayin...


As for me - I don't OC for the same reasons others have said, and I said above.  Mainly because I don't want the attention that attracts.  And of course, if I need it, want every advantage including surprise.  I have defused several situations verbally, when the other guy was asking for it and I would have preferred to oblige, but didn't because a fistfight could easily go to gunplay and it wasn't a life-threatening situation yet.  The other guy(s) may have thought I was a wimp when they couldn't provoke me - they likely would think different if they knew I was protecting their life and they would have had to produce a weapon then I would have ended it for them.

[The Anvil]

Sorry guys but Mark is right. Open Carry makes you the first target. I mean I'm not against it from a legal standpoint but I don't do it myself.

Errmm.... no he's NOT right. Perhaps you can convince me otherwise by citing a few instances in which it actually happened. That is, a bad buy arrives in an area intent on mayhem and death and looks around, finds the open carry person and shoots him or her first... Hell, just find me one documented case.

Individuals who open carry are far more likely to serve as a deterrent than as a target.

Well it would be kinda hard to do since they don't really keep stats on that kind of thing. And for that matter even if they did, the motives driving those who do mayhem while in a mentally impaired state usually wind up in clumps on the ground.

But use your brain for a second here; if YOU entered a situation in which you planned on causing as much death and destruction as possible or looking to exact vengeance (consequences be cursed) and you spied someone with a gun on their hip what would YOU do?

You know what you'd do. You'd kill the armed individual first. In this situation you have given away any advantage you may have had in the element of the x-factor. So yes, Mark is right. You now have a target on your back, in more ways than one I might add.

Trust me, when you are open carrying the person most impressed with you IS you.
It's just not necessary.

You insist on a line of reasoning that is simply not backed up by reality. As long as we're hypothesizing, tell me, why to you think that crazies most often choose places for mass murder that are typically "gun free" zones like schools, churches, malls and so forth?

Do they? Got any data to back that up? But even so, since when are churches and malls "gun free zones"? I carry regularly in both. I'm not even sure the elementary school my daughter attends is "gun free". I've never seen a sign.

Oh and what about military bases or college campuses with armed security? Seems to me some rather high-profile mass shootings have happened in both locations recently (hint; uniforms are easy to spot).

[bigguy]

And MarkT Who is the hot babe on the bike in your sig. If it's the missus, then congrats. She is smoking.

Well, thanks for the sentiment.  Without saying who she is, or that this applies to her, but...

No matter how hot that babe you're admiring is, just remember that, somewhere, there's a guy she has pissed off, and hates her guts.  And you too, could be that guy.

jus sayin...


As for me - I don't OC for the same reasons others have said, and I said above.  Mainly because I don't want the attention that attracts.  And of course, if I need it, want every advantage including surprise.  I have defused several situations verbally, when the other guy was asking for it and I would have preferred to oblige, but didn't because a fistfight could easily go to gunplay and it wasn't a life-threatening situation yet.

Ahhhh!

[texaninsouthfl]

You guys are killing me here with the DRT acronym. I'm guessing it's not "Daughters of the Republic of Texas". 

Maybe "Dead Right There"?

Yup... that's right. 

[texaninsouthfl]

Sorry guys but Mark is right. Open Carry makes you the first target. I mean I'm not against it from a legal standpoint but I don't do it myself.

Errmm.... no he's NOT right. Perhaps you can convince me otherwise by citing a few instances in which it actually happened. That is, a bad buy arrives in an area intent on mayhem and death and looks around, finds the open carry person and shoots him or her first... Hell, just find me one documented case.

Individuals who open carry are far more likely to serve as a deterrent than as a target.

Well it would be kinda hard to do since they don't really keep stats on that kind of thing. And for that matter even if they did, the motives driving those who do mayhem while in a mentally impaired state usually wind up in clumps on the ground.

But use your brain for a second here; if YOU entered a situation in which you planned on causing as much death and destruction as possible or looking to exact vengeance (consequences be cursed) and you spied someone with a gun on their hip what would YOU do?

You know what you'd do. You'd kill the armed individual first. In this situation you have given away any advantage you may have had in the element of the x-factor. So yes, Mark is right. You now have a target on your back, in more ways than one I might add.

Trust me, when you are open carrying the person most impressed with you IS you.
It's just not necessary.

You insist on a line of reasoning that is simply not backed up by reality. As long as we're hypothesizing, tell me, why to you think that crazies most often choose places for mass murder that are typically "gun free" zones like schools, churches, malls and so forth?

Do they? Got any data to back that up? But even so, since when are churches and malls "gun free zones"? I carry regularly in both. I'm not even sure the elementary school my daughter attends is "gun free". I've never seen a sign.

Oh and what about military bases or college campuses with armed security? Seems to me some rather high-profile mass shootings have happened in both locations recently (hint; uniforms are easy to spot).

Wrong again... I'm assuming you're referring to the muslim who murdered 12 soldiers and wounded 31 at Fort Hood. Soldiers aren't allowed to carry their loaded weapons on base. You'll note that Hasan picked a place at the base for his murderous rampage where NO ONE WAS ARMED in the immediate vicinity. He was eventually shot by CIVILIAN base police.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

The open carry verses concealed carry thing is getting a little bit like oil brand threads. One thing I think is pretty well beyond doubt though. The mass murders who want to take out a bunch of people as part of their own suicide seem to always gravitate to places where they anticipate unarmed victims.

I don't think it's any coincidence that they usually target workplaces and schools. Around here most workplaces don't allow carry and I know the schools don't and by law can't. It is legal to have your CC firearm on your person when picking up kids from school here as long as you stay in the car with it, at least that's my understanding, don't bank on my word though. Research it yourself before doing it.

We've had workplace shootings in this area, two at a plant one of my sons and my daughter currently work at. Carry is not allowed there. We had someone fire into a rural school here a few years ago too.

What we haven't had is anyone trying the same at a gun shop or police station where it's well known people will be armed.

[The Anvil]

Sorry guys but Mark is right. Open Carry makes you the first target. I mean I'm not against it from a legal standpoint but I don't do it myself.

Errmm.... no he's NOT right. Perhaps you can convince me otherwise by citing a few instances in which it actually happened. That is, a bad buy arrives in an area intent on mayhem and death and looks around, finds the open carry person and shoots him or her first... Hell, just find me one documented case.

Individuals who open carry are far more likely to serve as a deterrent than as a target.

Well it would be kinda hard to do since they don't really keep stats on that kind of thing. And for that matter even if they did, the motives driving those who do mayhem while in a mentally impaired state usually wind up in clumps on the ground.

But use your brain for a second here; if YOU entered a situation in which you planned on causing as much death and destruction as possible or looking to exact vengeance (consequences be cursed) and you spied someone with a gun on their hip what would YOU do?

You know what you'd do. You'd kill the armed individual first. In this situation you have given away any advantage you may have had in the element of the x-factor. So yes, Mark is right. You now have a target on your back, in more ways than one I might add.

Trust me, when you are open carrying the person most impressed with you IS you.
It's just not necessary.

You insist on a line of reasoning that is simply not backed up by reality. As long as we're hypothesizing, tell me, why to you think that crazies most often choose places for mass murder that are typically "gun free" zones like schools, churches, malls and so forth?

Do they? Got any data to back that up? But even so, since when are churches and malls "gun free zones"? I carry regularly in both. I'm not even sure the elementary school my daughter attends is "gun free". I've never seen a sign.

Oh and what about military bases or college campuses with armed security? Seems to me some rather high-profile mass shootings have happened in both locations recently (hint; uniforms are easy to spot).

Wrong again... I'm assuming you're referring to the muslim who murdered 12 soldiers and wounded 31 at Fort Hood. Soldiers aren't allowed to carry their loaded weapons on base. You'll note that Hasan picked a place at the base for his murderous rampage where NO ONE WAS ARMED in the immediate vicinity. He was eventually shot by CIVILIAN base police.

Whiiiiiiich was exactly my point; please pay more attention. The people who ARE carrying guns are obvious in these places (however, he DID know they were there and it was only a matter of time). He was committed to dying for what he believed in. No wanna-be Wyatt Earp is gonna deter someone like that. They'll just get dead first.

[texaninsouthfl]

Sorry guys but Mark is right. Open Carry makes you the first target. I mean I'm not against it from a legal standpoint but I don't do it myself.

Errmm.... no he's NOT right. Perhaps you can convince me otherwise by citing a few instances in which it actually happened. That is, a bad buy arrives in an area intent on mayhem and death and looks around, finds the open carry person and shoots him or her first... Hell, just find me one documented case.

Individuals who open carry are far more likely to serve as a deterrent than as a target.

Well it would be kinda hard to do since they don't really keep stats on that kind of thing. And for that matter even if they did, the motives driving those who do mayhem while in a mentally impaired state usually wind up in clumps on the ground.

But use your brain for a second here; if YOU entered a situation in which you planned on causing as much death and destruction as possible or looking to exact vengeance (consequences be cursed) and you spied someone with a gun on their hip what would YOU do?

You know what you'd do. You'd kill the armed individual first. In this situation you have given away any advantage you may have had in the element of the x-factor. So yes, Mark is right. You now have a target on your back, in more ways than one I might add.

Trust me, when you are open carrying the person most impressed with you IS you.
It's just not necessary.

You insist on a line of reasoning that is simply not backed up by reality. As long as we're hypothesizing, tell me, why to you think that crazies most often choose places for mass murder that are typically "gun free" zones like schools, churches, malls and so forth?

Do they? Got any data to back that up? But even so, since when are churches and malls "gun free zones"? I carry regularly in both. I'm not even sure the elementary school my daughter attends is "gun free". I've never seen a sign.

Oh and what about military bases or college campuses with armed security? Seems to me some rather high-profile mass shootings have happened in both locations recently (hint; uniforms are easy to spot).

Wrong again... I'm assuming you're referring to the muslim who murdered 12 soldiers and wounded 31 at Fort Hood. Soldiers aren't allowed to carry their loaded weapons on base. You'll note that Hasan picked a place at the base for his murderous rampage where NO ONE WAS ARMED in the immediate vicinity. He was eventually shot by CIVILIAN base police.

Whiiiiiiich was exactly my point; please pay more attention. The people who ARE carrying guns are obvious in these places (however, he DID know they were there and it was only a matter of time). He was committed to dying for what he believed in. No wanna-be Wyatt Earp is gonna deter someone like that. They'll just get dead first.

Responding to your posts reminds me of the old (humorous) saying, ""Don't argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience"