Do I really need to replace the pinion gear

[Fritz The Cat]

I'm having to redo my final drive due to chewed up splines. The ring gear came with the pinion so I assume it's a matched set. Looking at the manual it seems that a boat load of special tools are required to change out this thing.

1. Do I really need to replace it?

2. If so, do I really need the special tools?

Any tips and/or guidance much appreciated.

Thanks

[keepinon]

I have one of mine down for the same problem, ordered parts but haven't received them yet.

I would think, that like auto's, the ring gear & pinion are a matched set, and should be replaced as a unit. I plan on it, haven't taken it apart yet in case my old noggin forgets where something goes during the wait for parts..

Let us know how you proceed.

[Ricky-D]

Yep, I believe they are cut with the same machines, together and they make a matched set.

Some have changed out the ring gear only.

None have reported back regarding doing it this way.

Whether there are problems or not has not been reported.

I think the main problems would be:

1) Accelerated wear

2) Whine noise from the assembly.

I don't imagine there would be a breakdown but that cannot be predicted.

***

[salty1]

Go for it Fritz! 

[Fritz The Cat]

Think I will. Looking at the procedure for replacing the pinion in the manual made me break out in a cold sweat. It looks like it's way over my head as far as equipment needed to do the job. I guess since no one who's done it has reported back means that either is a none issue or else they're all dead. 

[lee]

Yes replace both as a set.  No special tools are needed to get the pinion out.  Just a punch and a hammer.
Don't beat on the same ear all the time.  The pinion bearing pops off just like the ring gear bearing did.
If the #1 needle bearing in the housing looks ok then leave it and use it.  It can be removed and replaced
but its a real PITA.  You need Dental tools to do it.  Like I said if it looks good leave it.  Clean everthing up good.
Go to the parts store and get a tube of blue die.  Put die on several teeth of ring gear and pinion teeth.
Put all back together without sealing cover.  Put it back together with the same SHIMS that came out. 
It will feel a little tight.  Turn it a couple or 25 times enough to get a patern indication from the die. 
If its to tight to turn or has a lot of play You will need other shims.  If you get a good pattern and it turns without
hardly any play, take it apart seal the cover, put oil in it, and ride it like its for sale. 

If you need other shims,  a REAL REAL good mechanic can tell you which shim and how thick it should be.
Other wise just order both sets.  1 set for ring gear and 1 set for pinion.
Hope this helps, GO FOR IT.

 

[indybobm]

I had the same question. Like automobile gear sets, I do not think they are 'lapped' together to make one pinion gear unique to one ring gear. I have also thought that since the gears are ground to specific tolerances, you can take three sets of gears (of the same ratio) and mix the ring and pinions with no adverse effect. Mixing a new ring gear with a used pinion gear could be a different matter. This could, and probably would, result in gear wine from the final drive. Would you hear it over the transmission whine? I do not know. In a similiar vein, you could install a used ring gear with good splines into a final drive with bad splines. I would think this would whine more. How much? Only one way to find out. If you do, let us know!

[bscrive]

Ok guys, I changed my final drive gear out this past spring and i didn't change the pinion gear, mainly because I was taking my bike on a Caribbean cruise and I didn't get the special tool needed in time.  I have done over 3k miles on the bike and I have no whining sounds from the back end.  I made sure that the gears were not tight and there was slack between the gears. I used a grease pen to make sure that the two gears would meshed ok.  The marks were in the middle of the gears so I figured that I was ok.  I may have been lucky in getting a set that was just like my original set, I don't know but I have not had any issues so far.

[Fritz The Cat]

Ran into another snafu. Lots of stuff either isn't covered in a manual or is covered adequately. This is one of them.

Part # 14 here - http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2136864&category=Motorcycles&make=HONDA&year=1997&fveh=124886

HOLDER, O-RING
41433-MG9-000

Seems to be stuck in the final gear. Can it be removed or do I need to order a new one? If it can be removed, how's the best way to do it?

Thanks again.

[bscrive]

The cup comes out.  It is in there pretty tight but it does come out.  I used the axle to move it side to side to get it out.  I replaced all the o-rings associated with the final drive.

[Fritz The Cat]

The axle is way too small to move it side to side so I put it in a vise and wacked it around the perimeter with a piece of wood and a hammer. No go, it didn't budge. I also hosed it down with WD40 and still it hasn't budged.

[bscrive]

Man, yours seems to be stuck pretty good.  Mine was not that bad.  Let it soak in WD40 for a little while, it looks like your may have rusted in there.  I must have put something between the holder and the axle to take mine out, I remember using the axle though and hitting it side to side but it did come out in only a few hits.  The holder is recessed a little into the main gear, but not by much, maybe 1/8".

[Fritz The Cat]

Thanks. You're probably right about it being rusted. I'm letting it soak now and will try it again in a while. Sure hope I can get it out or it'll be another 2 weeks before I can get her back together. 

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Thanks. You're probably right about it being rusted. I'm letting it soak now and will try it again in a while. Sure hope I can get it out or it'll be another 2 weeks before I can get her back together. 

How long have you owned this bike and how many miles have you put on it ? Have you done service to the final drive since you've owned it ?

[Fritz The Cat]

Haven't owned it long enough to wear out the tires that were on it when I bought it and they were far from new. I had no reason to suspect there was a problem back there until I pulled the rear wheel to replace the tire. I suppose that it wouldn't be a bad idea to pull the wheel and check the splines and drive shaft but who has ever done that or heard of it being done? 

[Fritz The Cat]

After much cussing, pounding, pushing and pulling I finally managed to get the little booger out of there. But not without some scarring. If all it does is hold the o-ring in it's proper place, I should be able to grind down the scars and reuse it.

What do you think?

[Ricky-D]

Yep,,,

Just be sure to get it in the new ring gear fully.

***

[Fritz The Cat]

Thanks

[keepinon]

Back to check on which direction Fritz went with his replacement.

I changed mine today, only the ring gear. My reasoning, upon mic-ing the bearing surfaces of the ring gear, there was only .004 difference between the old gear and the new. Since the spacers/shims sold by HDL come in .006 increments, I left well enough alone. A grease pencil on the gears showed the old pinion & new ring gear meshing in the center, both side to side & top to bottom. Everything turned smoothly, no slack, no tighter than before.

The 40 mile test ride was good. No whining or other noises. Smooth operation, even with several hard acceleration & shifting sessions. I believe it is good to go.

One other consideration, the center of the ring gear, the part with the splines, is a pressed in item. I suppose the old could be removed, and the new one from a new ring gear be placed in it's stead. (Since Honda does not sell this part as a seperate item) You'd be using your original ring gear & pinion (if you're worried about clearance issues in the teeth) with the new spline piece inserted.

I suppose replacing all the parts in the final drive would have been better, but it would have been cost prohibitive for me. If this on does not work (I have no reason to think it won't) I still have the spare drive I picked up at Inzane.

[Fritz The Cat]

She's back together, new ring gear old pinion gear. Gotta put the front tire back on and then I can take her for a test drive. Given that there was zero wear on the ring and pinion, if there is a slight miss match, hold long before the final drive is toast?? If I was rich I would have just ordered a new final drive and been done with it but since I ain't, I took the cheap way out. Hopefully she'll hold together. will report back later today after I take her out for a test ride.

[Ricky-D]

Seems like there are a few brand new unused pinion gears just laying around on the work benches now.

***

[salty1]

Good luck Fritz!   

[Fritz The Cat]

In spite of myself, I managed to get the Fat Lady back together. Took her out for a short 10 mile ride today and all seems well. The end of August I'll depart on my annual Hillbilly ride. I'll cove about 2000 miles, mostly in the twisties, this will tell.