Sad Ending

[soapbabie]

I am not really one of you, but I love this site, coming here and reading your comments and stories.  I love bikes, love Bikers, the all American, decent, family oriented, loyal guys that you are...........but, I dont understand your ideas about guns and your  reaction to this shooting. No one seems to much care, its all about guns, having guns, shooting first, a while ago I was reading on here about a child that was killed because of a loaded gun in the house, no one said, Why? why was there even a gun in the house, let alone a loaded one? Why is no one here saying, gee, maybe we should rethink this whole gun thing, lots of lives being lost, maybe......no, all I saw was, lets carry....we can shoot first.....I realize you have a right to your feelings, I respect that, you will never change, and I will never understand it....not ever. So, with all due respect, I am removing my self from membership...it doesnt matter in the least what I do, you were fine without me and will certainly be now, but you broke my heart....

[Jess from VA]

Goodbye. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Well, what is sad is that you are leaving.  Yes its sad what happened in Co........however, people do bad things, and no law can stop people that want to do bad things from finding a way.  Those of us that believe in the 2nd ammendment as a right that was given by God and the founding fathers to be able to protect the livelyhood of law abiding citizens from an oppressive government or a radical criminal know, its just one more tool that the unique freedom still available in this country affords them that would stand up and defend themselves or someone else.

I very much understand your point of view, but dont really feel a tear for your broken heart.  That is your drama not mine

I for one care about the lives lost in the shooting, but care more about them that would take away freedom in this country by wrongly exploiting this tragedy as thier justification.  more lives and liberty would be lost than was taken in Colorado this last week

Stay or go, thats your choice......just dont blame us, its youre choice

[Romeo]

I don't see htem as "blaming us". This whole thing, obviously has shaken alot of us. The sad thing, to me is this person has a point of view differing from most of ours. that we summarily dismiss their feeligs on the subject, to me demonstrates a certain closed mindedness on some of our parts, rendering us as no more openminded to other ideas than they may be. What a shame that is. No one, none of us has an answer to this. That is because there is no answer to the question, why is there evil? Evil is. Period.  To me, disarming the law abiding citizens is certainly not the answer, but neither is living in an "armed camp".   What I ask next may offend some of you here. W.W.J.D ?

[Romeo]

I want to apologize for the typos in the previous post. I am using my ipad and the keyboard sucks.

[MacDragon]

I'm sorry you feel like you have to leave... You don't.  I don't think there was one post that said that they didn't care about the lives that were lost in Colorado.  There was, indeed, a lot of conversation about the 2nd ammendment, concealed carry, the right to protect.  That is largely the point.  Just for a moment, let's put yourself in some different shoes.  A hypothetical situation if you will.   Let's just say you happen to have been there at the movie theater.  This tragic event starts to unfold... You look up, and the heartless murderer is aiming the gun right at you, about to pull the trigger.  What do you do?... You are about to meet your maker.  But........... The guy two seats away from you happens to have a weapon on him with a permit to carry it for his personal protection,... and the protection of others.  He pulls, aims, and fires 2 rounds (just as he's been trained to), into the person who was just about to kill you... The guy is down without firing the shot... What do you think of him now???

It is an unthinkable shame, what happened there.  And things like it have happened in the past as they will again happen... Unfortunately, there are some very, sick in the head, people out there.  I also think that, fortunately, there are way more normal people that would never have thoughts like that.  Let alone, carry them out.  I'd like to be one that is able to stop it if I could. Not to be a hero... but to save my life and yours.

My prayers and condolences go out to the families and friends that are suffering after their losses.  

[Valker]

I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.

[Chrisj CMA]

I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.

I carry because when seconds count the cops are minutes away

[Psychotic Bovine]

I will never make apologies for exercising a right guaranteed by the US Constitution.
Keep in mind, Oklahoma City and 9/11 both happened without a shot being fired.  Should we ban air travel, fertilizer, cars, etc?  
I also find it highly distasteful and downright sick that some people (politicians, lobbyists, etc) are trying to use this to further an agenda that removes rights from American citizens.  And many of them were speaking out against these rights within a few hours of the tragedy in Aurora.
Why would anyone of sound mind say "you know, maybe we need to rethink this 4th amendment stuff, you know... because if we had allowed the police to do random searches of our dwellings, this might have been prevented." or "if we allowed the government to install cameras in our homes, crime would be a thing of the past.  Only those with something to hide should be opposed to it."
I, for one, am not willing to go down that slippery slope.

[Jess Tolbirt]

troll

[Patrick]

I think most of us feel terrible when such a shooting happens,, but,, why do some people think a ban on guns will eliminate this ??
Many of us were brought up with guns in the home,, loaded guns even.. Precautions do need to be taken when youngsters are around..
Anyone that thinks guns should be banned just needs to start using them with the proper people under proper conditions to learn proper operation and precautions..
As far as I'm concerned an unloaded gun is useless..

[MacDragon]

An unloaded gun is almost as good as a hammer...  A loaded gun can save your life and the lives of your family.

[Gear Jammer]

adios 

[BF]

I realize you have a right to your feelings, I respect that, you will never change, and I will never understand it....not ever.

What's to understand.  When they outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns. 

[FLAVALK]

Adios

[fudgie]

For every life taken by a criminal with a gun is many more lives saved by a gun. Which is more important? 

Our boss is making (mandatory) class on what to do if we are ever in a life or death situation at work. It is designed to 'talk' our way out of it. Its a bunch of BS to all of us. I am surprised nothing has ever happen worse to us yet. We have been chased by guns before. We all carry knives to use as 'seat belt cutters'  . Our dispatch sux if it is ever needed for help. When squelch is heard, they clear it and assume we are ok. They are going to do a self def class, hand to hand stuff but it will be a few yrs.  We will talk our way out 1st. Around here nothing happens to improve until something bad happens 1st.

[bscrive]

Guys, you just don't understand.  I don't think you ever will because of the way you grew up.  Up here in Canada it can be just as dangerous as some parts in the US.  We used to not have much of this type of crime but unfortunately it seems to be getting worst and it can happen anywhere.  Just look at Norway.  But, I for one don't think that carrying a gun is the answer.  The last thing we need is more bullets flying around.  Everyone thinks that they are a Clint Eastwood and they are not.  Tougher jail terms for criminals is what is really needed.  I am not talking about Club Fed either.  Criminals need to be punished for their crimes.  Put them in work camps with really hard meaningless work like I hear about in the south.  If they murder someone then they forfeit their own lives.

Also, I get very annoyed when someone gives a different opinion and the only thing someone can do is call them a troll.  Isn't that what makes the free world the best.  I am not just talking about Jess on this post but there are so many others that do the same thing, really sad.

[fudgie]

You make good points on tuffer criminal penalties. And I agree. But thank God our fathers fought and recognized our Right to defend ourselves. That is what is important to us Americans. Dont want to defend yourself, thats up to you. I will. 

[RDAbull]

What's to understand.  When they outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns. 
[/quote]
When guns are outlawed, I too, will be an outlaw.  It may sound cliché', but I believe that the constitution is not just a good set of ideas, but a set of laws worth living by and if necessary, dying for.
A gun is an inanimate object.  No brain, no will power.  It is just a tool in the hands of its holder.  Like a car that can be used to transport a baby to a hospital or drive away from a bank robbery.
We will never be able to control all of the users of tools, but maybe we can help protect our families from those who misuse them.

I come from 4 generations of LEOs and can't remember any time in my 62 years when I did not have loaded guns in the house.  Yes, we took precautions when our boys were young, but we also taught them from a young age what guns were and what they were for.  Not once in these four generation has anyone in my family had to fire in the line of duty to protect themselves or others, but it is as my Father (and Scoutmaster) told me in my youth, it is better to spend a lifetime preparing and not need the skill than to need the skill and not be prepared.
Please don't discontrue our attitude as not caring, we do, but the world is full of evil, we can't stop that, but maybe we can be in a position to help just one person someday.
Roger

[NCGhostrider]

While I am certainly for tough sentences for criminals.    A sick mind generally does not care about the consequences of their actions.   My 02.

Craig
NcGhostrider
99 I/S

[art]

Well, what is sad is that you are leaving.  Yes its sad what happened in Co........however, people do bad things, and no law can stop people that want to do bad things from finding a way.  Those of us that believe in the 2nd ammendment as a right that was given by God and the founding fathers to be able to protect the livelyhood of law abiding citizens from an oppressive government or a radical criminal know, its just one more tool that the unique freedom still available in this country affords them that would stand up and defend themselves or someone else.
What did God have to do with it?Keep religion out of it.By the way I'm for keeping guns the hell with the UN
I very much understand your point of view, but dont really feel a tear for your broken heart.  That is your drama not mine

I for one care about the lives lost in the shooting, but care more about them that would take away freedom in this country by wrongly exploiting this tragedy as thier justification.  more lives and liberty would be lost than was taken in Colorado this last week

Stay or go, thats your choice......just dont blame us, its youre choice

[Jess from VA]

Without a firearm, how am I to stop a man twice my size (or on meth) or half my age, or two, or five, or a mob, or a man armed with a firearm or machete or ax, or a tyrannical government from taking my life or liberty?  

Am I to reason with him, beg him, run from him, or just lie down and die for him?

Firearms are the only equalizer available.  There are other arms, lethal and nonlethal, but none will substitute.  

God created all men, but only Sam Colt made them equal (not governments and not laws, thou they can help).

If you can find a way to disarm all criminals, I am for that.  But it is impossible, and two or more men can kill one man with their bare hands.  And even if you disarm the whole world, evil men will continue to murder, rape, rob, loot, and create mayhem.

All men are born with the capacity for great evil, it is only proper child rearing, teaching and mentoring and discipline of core values thru youth to adulthood, and the fear of the criminal justice system that keeps them from being evil.

I will not be disarmed, while alive.    

[Serk]

The 2nd amendment isn't about duck hunting.

It's not even about being able to stop someone from breaking into your house (Although it encompasses that as well.)

It's about having a final check in the system of checks and balances that keeps our government working. It's about giving the people the final power to stand up and say "No!" if the government gets out of hand.

170,000,000 people died because of gun control in the 20th century.

Yes, it's propaganda, but something being propaganda doesn't mean it's not truth. If you've got an hour to kill, give this a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDivHkQ2GSg

[tank_post142]

so your saying the draconian gun laws in place in Canada are not helping control crime? it's getting worse? fancy that. 

[Karen]

If you consider how many people are killed by drunk drivers, shouldn't we make booze illegal? Wouldn't that solve the problem? Oh wait. We did that. Obviously it wasn't the booze. We should outlaw cars? The sick Colorado dude could have just as easily blown himself and others up using the stuff they found in his apartment, but I guess he wanted his moment of fame while still here to enjoy the notoriety. Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people. People with cars kill people. People with knives kill people. People with bricks and rocks kill people. People with bare hands kill people. I haven't killed anyone yet, but my guns are here for hunting and protection, if needed, and the UN will NEVER have say over my guns; I still live in a sovereign State. Too many people have died so that I can live my life freely, and I don't intend to surrender any more freedoms to this socialist agenda. This government has exceeded the boundaries expressed in the Constitution; it is our responsibility to correct that in November.

[shooter64]

After 9-11 did you quit forums where members were still going to fly on airplanes? Did you advocate banning of airplanes? Firearms have been banned in England for instance. Now only the criminals have guns. The problem is that laws affect only law abiding people that would not have done the crime in the first place.

[alph]

do you feel the same way about beer?  seriously, do you?  a sane person can have a beer when he gets home, relaxes, watches his kids play, maybe mows the yard, kisses the wife, etc. etc. but an alcoholic has one beer, then another, then another.......   some alcoholics beat their wife, some kick the dog, but then again, some just drink till they pass out, some like to drive after the get plastered.

we had booze in our house when i was a little kid, and yes, i accidentally got drunk once while acquiring a taste for some hard liquor, so i can see your point on having a loaded gun out freely when the kids are unsupervised.....  these things do happen..... 

so, should we outlaw beer just because it's something certain people can't control?  should we make it illegal for someone like me to be able to have a beer at the end of the day, just because ONE idiot has too many then gets in their car and kills a little kid riding their bike on the sidewalk? 

it's not like a Colorado shooting happens everyday in the US.  but a DUI does....

here's something from Wikipidea;

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.  The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.

maybe we need to have "gun check points" on the road?  you know, pull a person over, check 'em for their riffle, is it loaded correctly?  do they have the "right" to carry one?  are they "sane"?  have they been dry firing it lately?  you know, the same thing they do on the roads for drunk drivers......  (insert tongue-n-cheek smiley here)

or maybe we need to have "gun free zones" like the south has "dry counties".  oh, yeah, that's called Chicago, where only the criminals and cops have the guns.......

well, if you're going to leave this site because of THAT, then in reality you have other issues in your life.....  BTW, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING HERE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A VALKYRIE ANYWAY!!!

[The Anvil]

Also, I get very annoyed when someone gives a different opinion and the only thing someone can do is call them a troll. 

I'm inclined to call the person a troll only because they have all of seven posts.

I think that making it about guns so soon after it happened (by both camps) was filthy and disrespectful. But that's just the way it works now.

[tank_post142]

BAN PICKUP TRUCKS!!
http://news.yahoo.com/authorities-11-dead-truck-crashes-texas-051608764.html

[Chrisj CMA]

Well, what is sad is that you are leaving.  Yes its sad what happened in Co........however, people do bad things, and no law can stop people that want to do bad things from finding a way.  Those of us that believe in the 2nd ammendment as a right that was given by God and the founding fathers to be able to protect the livelyhood of law abiding citizens from an oppressive government or a radical criminal know, its just one more tool that the unique freedom still available in this country affords them that would stand up and defend themselves or someone else.
What did God have to do with it?Keep religion out of it.By the way I'm for keeping guns the hell with the UNI very much understand your point of view, but dont really feel a tear for your broken heart.  That is your drama not mine

I for one care about the lives lost in the shooting, but care more about them that would take away freedom in this country by wrongly exploiting this tragedy as thier justification.  more lives and liberty would be lost than was taken in Colorado this last week

Stay or go, thats your choice......just dont blame us, its youre choice

Art...first off please learn how to post after a quote.....looks like you added words to my statement.....I dont like it

Second who said anything about religion.  Im sick and tired of every time God is mentioned its a religious problem......Religions are man made.......you are right religion has nothing to do with this

Third you might try reading the Declaration of Independence to see what God has to do with it:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

[Jeff K]

BAN PICKUP TRUCKS!!
http://news.yahoo.com/authorities-11-dead-truck-crashes-texas-051608764.html

You beat me to it!
I wonder if Obama is going to meet these families too? I think he'd have to go to Mexico though. That wouldn't be a problem for him. He'd just bring the rest of the family here by executive order.

[Mr. Nuts]

I don't mean to sound mean or harsh, but you sound pretty young and inexperienced to me. I mean no disrespect when I tell you that it is rude for you to come into someone else's club, and someone else's country, with all of 7 posts, and start spouting your opinion about how the world should run and how we should all behave. You should expect the troll label when you do that.

I have lots of relatives in Canada that come for family reunions and such they greatly envy our rights regarding guns. My relatives don't come here and tell us how we should do things, and out of respect for them, I don't try to force America's ideas on them either.

[alph]

I don't mean to sound mean or harsh, but you sound pretty young and inexperienced to me. I mean no disrespect when I tell you that it is rude for you to come into someone else's club, and someone else's country, with all of 7 posts, and start spouting your opinion about how the world should run and how we should all behave. You should expect the troll label when you do that.

how soon we forget about the "Anvil" now......  remember, he was EXTREMELY insulting to many old timers on this site, calling 'em out right stupid, and ignorant.  oh how soon we forget the past.  

[steve 3054]

This is in fact a motorcycle forum...and yes on every forth year politics gets in the way...buy WE are not responsible for this shooting and WE can or can not have any thoughts WE want.   I wonder why this lady would hold US accountable for the sickos actions in any manner...

[bigguy]

[Big Ed]

This is real simple...

Bad guys will always have guns. So called "gun control" laws don't prevent them from getting guns.

Good guys need guns to protect ourselves against the bad guys.

Remember... when seconds count... cops are only minutes away.

Be safe...

[sandy]

The original poster has a flaw in his/her thinking. They seem to place blame/responsibility on the gun. Blame should be placed on the human. The baby who died was the fault of the adult who left a loaded firearm in the presence of a child. There are laws about the responsibility of the safety issues about owning a firearm. I hope the poster doesn't leave over thîs issue. The frustration of us on this board is merely us wishing we could have done something to stop Holmes but weren't there to help.

[Xtracho]

'nuff said!

[G-Man]

.........people with guns kill people. .......

That's just it, Karen.  The anti-gun folks believe that EVERY person with a gun is a person the COULD kill. 

[G-Man]

The original poster has a flaw in his/her thinking. They seem to place blame/responsibility on the gun.

No, they don't blame it on the gun.  They blame the person with any gun.  They feel that any person who is in possession of a gun has the potential to do harm.  Plain and simple. If you remove the gun, you take away the potential for someone to hurt someone else. 

BTW, these are the same folks who think stop and frisk in NYC should be stopped as it infringes on young black and latino men's rights who dress as thugs, roaming the streets of high violent crime neighborhoods, and commit the highest amount of the violent crimes within those neighborhoods.

"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"  Ha!  No $hit.