Broke the fitting on the radiator neck for the overfill bottle: suggestions

[Brian]

jay, you got an offer here from a member who lives in your state. Take the radiator off the bike, you'll probably have to do it anyway to fix it right, and see about taking it to him. It's not that bad unless you boogered up the neck and the cap won't seal right. Don't beat yourself up, education is always expensive. We all learm something new everyday. Like I tell the guys at work "if your not making mistakes you are not doing anything."

There is a lot of talent on the site that can help you. Hang in there brother.

[JaysGone]

OK already.......just send me your bike...Ill fix it and you wont have anything to whine about.........You can get a HD, at least parts are available   

If your close enough that may be a distinct possibility.
In the mean while I have a perfectly good RoadStar that has never been back to the dealer since it was bought new, 40K and 6 years ago.
Used for commuting to work daily.

[Chrisj CMA]

OK already.......just send me your bike...Ill fix it and you wont have anything to whine about.........You can get a HD, at least parts are available   

If your close enough that may be a distinct possibility.
In the mean while I have a perfectly good RoadStar that has never been back to the dealer since it was bought new, 40K and 6 years ago.
Used for commuting to work daily.

I was kinda being sarcastic.....but.......Im in Northwest Fl (panhandle) 50 miles east of Pensacola.  Inventing fixes is one of my specialties

[JaysGone]

I know you were not being serious.
But I was about all the little things.
I have had about 15 bikes in over 35 years of riding.
I do all my own repairs and matainence.
While this bike does every thing better then most.
It sure is a hard bike to work on for me.
All the little niggling things so far nothing major, just all a PIA to repair.
Considering the shape it was in when I bought it.
Neglected and outdoors in the Florida weather for at least 2 years non running.
I think ive done well with it.

[Chrisj CMA]

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/1705/Radiator_Neck_and_Cap


http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Great-Neck-Air-Hose-Repair-Kit-Suzuki-Sidekick-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-25843-/110852202734#ht_1041wt_1135


http://quinbyhardware.com/Products/SKU/6276067/AIR-LINE-NIPPLE-1-4-MALE/POWER-TOOLS-and-ACCESSORIES/COMPRESSORS-and-ACCESSORIES/PLEWS-EDELMANN


Just some Ideas I found on simple searches

[JaysGone]

The air nipples are the 1st thing I thought of as I have a ton of compressor fittings.
But
I didnt want to open the hole up to a quarter inch on the radiator.
The actual size is 3/16ths.

As for the neck yes it can be cut out then a new one welded in.
But were are back to the lack of people around here who can TIG weld and me having to remove it.
I even gave buying a TIG welder a thought and learning how as a side business around here....
radiator shops down here just repalce they are cheap enough for cars new.
Im sure there are welders around here some place that can do these things, but Im already tired of running around.
Half the guys I called yesterday dont even speak English.
Im getting pissed off to say the least.
In NY these trades people are a dime a dozen.
Here next to none.

All good suggestions,but already in my head.
Im going to wait on a piece from another member who has a lathe and can mill a propper fitting.
if that doesnt work then its finding a cap bolt in a 1/4 inch, thread it 1/4-20 and use a rubber washer and a nut.
Home DePot only had up to 3/16ths and thats too small to thread.
Im amazed at what I cant find in stores around here locally.

Ive already tried to make 2 nipples from brass 1/4-20 screws today. I even bought a new bench grinder an hour ago.
I really need a drill press. More money for tools Ill hardly use.
I have enough of those.
But Im spent already, its over 100 degrees in my garage.......................time for the races.

[Ricky-D]

I agree with you about having a drill press.  Not having one can really make this job difficult.

Regarding welding, I would be cautious since a bad job could render the radiator useless for any further options.   Welding would be my last choice especially in face of no competent welders. Good welders are hard to find and you will pay them well I am sure. 

I still like the drilled flat head bolt as a fix. Like I said earlier, the hole need not be large, maybe 1/16" or so. You could grind a custom washer for the outside to get good sealing. I don't see anything being insurmountable. 

Regarding Pinwall radiators, they are all been in wrecks and for the most part are either racked or bent and you buy them "as is" with no returns accepted. A real shot in the dark.

***

[JaysGone]

Ricky
Today I managed to get it done.
A press would be nice but I take my time and have a dozen bits on hand.
Ill get some more studs at work in the am.
I made another neck bolt out of a solid brass stud and center drilled it 5/32nds.
Same size as the original. I also used a neoprene washer on the inside of the stud and ground it down concave to fit almost flush.
Key word almost.
Then shaved a touch off the brass center sides of the cap.
No more then if I had used 600 grit wet paper, more of a polishing then removing material.
Started up the bike and let it idle a few minutes.

Well it didnt leak from the stud I used. But did from under the cap itself.
Obviously the cap has to fit the inner neck perfect.
I cant see in there.
I have a feeling that because I had to grind down the top part of the 1/4-20 nut to get the cap to go on its not 100 flush and or sealing perfectly from the inside.
I never touched the neoprene washer on the cap itself.
Im good but I cant be perfect and the neck has got to be perfect.
More likely not 100% sealing due to the face of the stud not being 100% flush and rounded off enough.
Or because the head of the bolt isnt 100% flush with the interior of the neck.
The fluid might have to high a climb to get to the 5/32nds hole.
I have to remove some more of the brass.

In any event I felt I had it.
Im too drained from the heat to play any more with this today.

As to PinWall, since Ive done well over $2K with them in parts for this bike already.
I can call them and ask them to hand select the best radiator they have.
If I go this route eventually.
Even though they say no returns.
I have returned stuff less then as stated in the pictures.

Yes all these bikes certainly have been scrunched in one way or another.
Most are scuffed up on the fairings bags etc.
Parts that hang off the bike.
Depending on which side it went over on.
The worst a radiator can be is to have a few bent dented or screwed up fins and need a coat of black paint.
Believe me for what they want for a radiator............it shouldnt leak.
Most of these parts bikes were declared as totals for lack of OEM parts to fix them.
Its much easier for an Insurance company to write a check then even try to make simple repairs due to age and no new parts.

Look at your own radiator.
If its 10+ years old its not perfect too.
Mine isnt.

Ill give this 1 more try sometime during the week.
I think I might have to just grind down the face of the stud a little more so it sits a tad flusher with the neck.
I might even radius it a bit to have a slight curve in it this time.
Leaving I hope enough material to grab onto the neck.

[JaysGone]

Jay, why couldn't the original piece be tigged on?   You'd loose a little length, but length's not critical here.  Even it it couldn't be tigged all the way around to make a waterproof seal, it could be tacked on to hold it structurally, then sealed with jb weld.
-RP

Why??
Ill tell yah why no one in this stinking part of the wold will TIG weld a part that small and thin.
besides the inner hole on the radiator neck has been changed by me already.

As to JB weld as I said in the original 1st post.
Please dont suggest JB weld.
I knew it wouldnt and it doesnt stick to aluminum well.
I did try it as a last resort Friday night.
It didnt stick well at all.
You can knock it off even a prepped piece of aluminum like its plaster.

[Stratnick]

Check with Domer's machine shop in Okeechobee. I grew up there and they were known for quality work.

[JaysGone]

Ill look them up.
Its only a 30 minute ride around the lake for me.
Thanks.

[RP#62]

Jay, why couldn't the original piece be tigged on?   You'd loose a little length, but length's not critical here.  Even it it couldn't be tigged all the way around to make a waterproof seal, it could be tacked on to hold it structurally, then sealed with jb weld.
-RP

Why??
Ill tell yah why no one in this stinking part of the wold will TIG weld a part that small and thin.
besides the inner hole on the radiator neck has been changed by me already.

As to JB weld as I said in the original 1st post.
Please dont suggest JB weld.
I knew it wouldnt and it doesnt stick to aluminum well.
I did try it as a last resort Friday night.
It didnt stick well at all.
You can knock it off even a prepped piece of aluminum like its plaster.

Sorry, Jay, just trying to help.  I know this must be frustrating.  JB weld must not be what it used to be - I've used it on aluminum, let it cure 24 hours, then milled it with a milling machine to form a  sealing surface, so I know it will stick, but I also know it doesn't work on everything.  If you don't have any luck with other methods, I can machine you just about any kind of aluminum fitting you need, just send me dimensions.

-RP

[JaysGone]

Sorry if Ive passed on my fustration at you.
My main problem here is having to work in 100 degree heat.
I thought I was good today and then it still leaked.
But from the cap itself.
So that tells me it isnt completly seated.
The fitting I made did not leak.
Ive got 1 more try in me.
my main problem here is having to work in 100 degree heat.
Then its begin looking for a new radiator.

[Chrisj CMA]

Sorry if Ive passed on my fustration at you.
My main problem here is having to work in 100 degree heat.
I thought I was good today and then it still leaked.
But from the cap itself.
So that tells me it isnt completly seated.
The fitting I made did not leak.
Ive got 1 more try in me.
my main problem here is having to work in 100 degree heat.
Then its begin looking for a new radiator.

Slow down......take a breath.......you may have just been too rough with that neck and the sealing surfaces. 

Look carefully at the tabs and see if one doesnt need to be gently bent downward to provide a tighter seal.  And it may help to plug the hole with a big old rag to avoid getting any debris in there and then take a flat file and softly smooth the top (actual mating surface) of the neck so the cap can seal better

[JaysGone]

Chris.
Im walking away from this for a few days and wont even look at it till friday.
I did yesterday look over the top of the radiator neck and yes there was a tiny hole in the Id say front right side
Ill take a pick in a few minutes and add it in.
I did fill it with some JB and sand it with 600 wet paper.
I have a feeling at this point.
I still need to take a bit more off the inner face of the brass screw I used.
It may not be allowing free movement of the caps innards is the best I can say there.
Since I cant see it.
But its just best to take a break for a few days and begin all over.

Having a slow day at work I made another neck this time out of aluminum, that somebody should be able to tig weld.
Only thing is its made from 3/8ths stock threaded 5/16ths x 18 and might be way to big to even consider using.

OK I lied.
I just tried fridays fix and its still leaking from under the cap at the front.
I have a feeling the the screw face is still interfering with the brass plunger part of the cap.
Time for a new cap.
Ill thin it<the screw face> down some more.
Use some liquid butyl and put the screw back.
That should take care of any leakage from the screw.
And open the hole up to 3/16ths, its at 5/32s.
It must <the fluid> be looking for the point of least resistence.

The first pick sort of shows where I puttyied it up with JB weld.
The seam of the neck had a pin hole and seprated from the cap holding part a bit.
Thats sealed.

The 2nd pics shows the screw and stuff in place.
It looks good anyway.

Im damm close though.
Its rideable at least now.
Just a small drip at this point.
And yah Im soaked just a mild 93 in the garage.........

[Chrisj CMA]

Sounds like you are narrowing in on the final fix...keep at it..........

[JaysGone]

As Im sure as you have surmised about me Im as stubborn as they come.
I dont give up.

[Brian]

Jaysgone, it has been interesting following this thread. Been thinking about this and what you have tried. If you are still planning to use the counter sink flat head bolt drilled through you need to make sure you seal around the head of the bolt if you can with a good gasket forming type sealant or a thin rubber washer. I have some aluminum tubing around here, thinking it 3/8" ID that may be too large. I will measure the OD on my 97 to see if I can still come up with a size that matches close. I would still try the alumaloy practicing on an empty beer can or a piece of gutter first. I suggest putting a slight flare on one end, solder it in and then grind down the joint with a dremmel tool if it rubs the cap. If I have tubing that matches close are you ineterested?

good luck

[JaysGone]

Forget the alimaloy.
I wont even try that not for what it costs.
Other then that we are also both on the same thought here partially.
The cap its self is bad.
I put my old cap on today and thats fine no leak.

As for the bolt and or brass screw Im using.
Im going to try to use 2 o-rings that have a 3/16th or 1/4 ID.
Not easy to find so far.
Yes I know I can order anything on the net.
So we wont go there yet.
1 on the inside 1 on the outside with the flat washer I made to fit.
The leak as it is now is coming through the 2 stinking threads on the fitting I made.
The o-rings should seal that up.

You cant really even solder aluminum tubing.
Nothing sticks to it...........
The original piece of tubing is 1/4 inch OD with a 3/16th ID...any nuts used will block the cap from turning.
So I took a 1/4-20 crown bolt 1.25 inches long,and ground it round that threaded over the bolt with the washer.
Add the o-rings and I should be good to go.
Permatex wont stick, JB weld stick epoxy didnt Pool putty didnt.
Nor did PC-Metal which is ecentialy JB weld with steel in it.
NOTHING sticks to aliminum.
Not even super glue.
When I locate the right size o-rings Im pretty sure that will be the cure.

[art]

Forget the alimaloy.
I wont even try that not for what it costs.
Other then that we are also both on the same thought here partially.
The cap its self is bad.
I put my old cap on today and thats fine no leak.

As for the bolt and or brass screw Im using.
Im going to try to use 2 o-rings that have a 3/16th or 1/4 ID.
Not easy to find so far.
Yes I know I can order anything on the net.
So we wont go there yet.
1 on the inside 1 on the outside with the flat washer I made to fit.
The leak as it is now is coming through the 2 stinking threads on the fitting I made.
The o-rings should seal that up.

You cant really even solder aluminum tubing.
Nothing sticks to it...........
The original piece of tubing is 1/4 inch OD with a 3/16th ID...any nuts used will block the cap from turning.
So I took a 1/4-20 crown bolt 1.25 inches long,and ground it round that threaded over the bolt with the washer.
Add the o-rings and I should be good to go.
Permatex wont stick, JB weld stick epoxy didnt Pool putty didnt.
Nor did PC-Metal which is ecentialy JB weld with steel in it.
NOTHING sticks to aliminum.
Not even super glue.
When I locate the right size o-rings Im pretty sure that will be the cure.

I sent you two screws I made yesterday.One is stsinless steel and the other is brass .I hope you can use one of them.Art

[dreamchaser]

The only thing that sticks to aluminum is aluminum of the same alloy.  I'm sure you will eventually get here, just trying to save you some time and perhaps your sanity.  Forget brass, S/S, JB weld, rubber rings and any kind of solder.  You are working in aluminum!  Find a compitent tig welder, pay what he asks, and be done with it........ That's for repairing what will fail on you again.

I suggest you just go ahead and source a NEW RADIATOR!  Get over it!  R&R and ride it .  Stop F)^&#@ing around.  I would gladly pay $500 for my sanity, and a nice ride in Florida weather on a Valk I have a fortune tied up in already.  God bless you my son, you have just been delivered!
(shyte! How do I Soften this so I Don'tb sound like the bigest arse in all the world???)

[dreamchaser]

Just a suggestion   

[JaysGone]

Its taken as a suggestion and I actually agree with you.
Had you read all these posts from the get go.
And you may have missed this.
There are no compitent radiator people in this area that can TIG weld small parts.
Large yes small no.
What Im trying to do here is temporary.
I have no desire to remove the radiator at this time.
All this is just so I can ride the bike safely with some confidence that I wont do any large scale harm to it.

I have sorced used radiators and untill I can find one in good to perfect shape Ill wait.
This is a project bike.
Not my main ride by any means.
Im not about to invest over 10K with a faulty haffl assed to questionable radiator.

[JaysGone]

Art
Im eagerly awaiting your package.
But still messing around on my own in the interim.
Yes its fustrating but its giving me something to do and its keeping my brain which is usually addelpated working..............

[dreamchaser]

Yes Jay, I've read 'em all.... Only thing missing is bubblegum.  I'm just a "get a new one" kinda guy, whose spent too much of his life cobbling stuff together to make do.  We only get so much energy for one lifetime and I'm tired of wasting mine.  Maybe I should change my name to Grumpy old fart or something like that.  Enjoy, my friend.    

[JaysGone]

There are 4 or 5 used beat up radiators currently at PinWall for $250.
Id rather wait til a good one shows up.
Im a locksmith and part time tinkerer.
I can get a radiator of some sort any day of the week.
Where is the fun in that??
I really dont do much else anymore so for me its not wasting time.
I work 4 days a week to keep occupied.
The rest is tinkering.

If I cant fix it.
Cheaply and for this bike thats the key word.
Ill get a radiator someplace at some future point.
Im in no hurry.
This bikes a project.
Not my daily ride by any means.
I  dont care if this bike is ever perfect.
It will always be a rat bike in some form.
Its all for fun and something to keep me occupied instead of on the couch watching TV.
I bought it non running and neglected for years for a few grand.
Eventually Im gonna trike it for when the legs give out.
The bike might get finnished it might not.
Its still cheaper then rebuilding an old car and just as much fun and free agrivation.

My nick does fit me just fine...................

[vanagon40]

. . . I'm a locksmith and part time tinkerer. . . .

Do not want to hijack this thread because it is too interesting, BUT . . .

I'm a tinkerer and part time locksmith.  I had to think of you when I spent 45 minutes filing a key made by a local hardware store that would not turn the ignition of my '82 Silverwing.  The key would open all the other locks on the bike, but the not the ignition.  Fortunately, I was convinced that not enough had been taken away from the blank, so I continued to cautiously file away at what looked like the high spots, until the key worked.

If at first you don't succeed . . . .

[JaysGone]

My only advice herer unsoliceted or not is.
Use your local locksmith and get it right the 1st time.
We are a dying trade.

Most locksmiths are simply lock replacers and couldnt make a key to your bike if you had lost them all.
Im considered a dinosaur in this business.
I fix.
I dont replace, unless its totally shot.
Anyone can go to Home DePot and buy a 20$ lock for a half million dollar home.
As I tell any new guy at the shop.
Locksmithing isnt rocket scientry. Its common sense and sometimes just a bit of problem solving.

[Blackduck]

Interesting,
I have roll of what looks like standard resin core solder but is made for soldering Aluminium.
Repaired my sons Kwaka radiator after a prang. The only thing I found is it needs to be very clean and heat from the back side or indirectly, a direct flame oxides the surface and the solder will not stick. Not at the house so cannot check to see if there is any info on the roll.
Think it was designed to solder Ally to copper in refrigeration work.
Cheers Steve

[JaysGone]

One of the 1st things I tried Steve.
I used a 1000w soldering iron not a gun.
Didnt stick.

[JaysGone]

Ok I finally had it 99% was just putting a finnishing touch on it and did the thing I had feared the most happened.
Dropped the fitting in the radiator.............................
I give up.

I ordered a radiator from PinWall and thats that.
I hope its a good radiator.
Sure cant tell from the pictures as well as Id like.

[Brian]

Ok I finally had it 99% was just putting a finnishing touch on it and did the thing I had feared the most happened.
Dropped the fitting in the radiator.............................
I give up.

I ordered a radiator from PinWall and thats that.
I hope its a good radiator.
Sure cant tell from the pictures as well as Id like.

So pull the radiator and dump it out. If you get it work you will at least have a spare rad. You know what they are worth. Don't give up now. Hopefully the fitting is at the bottom of that side tank. Also the aluminum tubing I have is 3/8 OD. I used to have 1/4 around here from my career in the heating field. Can't find it. Good luck.

[JaysGone]

I guess I wasnt so clear Brian.
Yes I dropped A fitting.
Not the one thats on the radiator.
Its on the flatside Im sure and will just dump it out.

No biggie, I just have to pull the gas tank and off it comes more or less.
1 bolt actually.
I just decided anything I do here is temporary.
Ill get the used radiator.
Straighten out a bent fin or 2 and clean it up repaint whatever.
Then take this one someplace and Ill get it fixed right somehow eventually.
The tube is 1/4 OD 3/16ths ID.
Somebody has to have it some place.
A/C supply?? Maybe.

Bye the way the fitting I dropped was 3/8ths alunimum threaded 1/4-20.
I was contemplating drilling out the hole a little larger and PL00P dropped it.
Wouldnt have fit flush anyway.

[JaysGone]

Ok guys new used radiator is in and all seems well.
Id ike to thank Art,Gary and Chris and the rest of you who have followed this adventure from the beginning.
I have to say this is the 1st thing mechanically that has beaten me down that I couldnt fix one way or another satisfactorly myself.
I cant remember the last time I gave up on anything......................................Except yesterday couldnt make a key without the propper cutter.

Aside from that.
Can I tell who ever designed the air box a big F%%% Y**.
I sprayed carb cleaner and the idle went up.......so be it for now.
Between that and the tank which  was full.
A 30 minute job took me 2 hours in a 99 degree freggin garage.

Thanks again guys for your help..........................until my next self done screwup on this wunnerful bike.
I do like it but have really enjoyed just having 1 choice again for the last few days to ride.
Makes life easier.

[RP#62]

Someone once described installing the airbox as similar putting a straight jacket on an octopus.

-RP

[dreamchaser]

I bow to your tenacity, Jay.  I'm sure that you will eventually make your futzed up radiator as good as new, functionally, now that all the pressure is off of you.  You're not the man who accepts defeat.

[JaysGone]

The not so funny thing is.
Now that I have the used radiator and the stock cap that came with it.
I could see right away what the problem actually was.
The stainless and brass fittings I and Art made whos was very well done by the way and mine a bit sloppy.
Actually worked.
Where as I thought it was interfering with the cap and the fluid took the route of least resistence and leaked from the neck.
The neck its self is also totally F#$%^ked too.
The replacement radiator, all the angles and what not of the cap fitting are nice and squared<propper angles>.
Mines all rounded and scuffed up to heck.
I didnt know any better.
So I was doomed from the get go.
If  hadnt broke the fitting off.
The neck would have gone eventually and at the wrong time and place.

[JaysGone]

Someone once described installing the airbox as similar putting a straight jacket on an octopus.

-RP

Its a ball buster alright.
I hated to even take it off but I couldnt reach the fan connection from the top.
When I replaced the original main wiring harness.
I did it really neatly tucking everything out of the way and just couldnt get to it.

But If I had just taken off the old radiator 1st.......................................
O........well.
Now I have at least 1 maybe 2 air leaks.
Those boots are almost impossible to get on right and tight the 1st time.
The tops of the carbs should be a half inch longer or the tubes more flexable.
Or both.
A very stupid flawed design from a maintainece stand point...............